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Discendo Vox posted:Even your own quote states there are "execution issues and fraud concerns". This is in fact a problem with these stimulus payment programs, and was a programmatic concern with the last several rounds. The root article from Axios identifies that it was one of several actions considered during the ongoing development of a larger response package. That just sounds like Democrats are dusting off the Republican panic about welfare fraud to justify not helping people.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:08
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And poo poo like this is barely registering anymore https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/21/us/mass-shootings-weekend/index.html At least 8 people were killed and more than 50 hurt in 8 mass shootings across the US this weekend quote:Among the incidents was a shooting at a car show in Dumas, Arkansas, that left one person dead and at least 28 injured -- the most people wounded in a mass shooting event in the US in more than two years, according to the Gun Violence Archive. Man, we're just really circling the drain and everyone I know feels it. Mass shootings are below the fold now.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:08
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Somehow, complicated logistics didn't stop the stimulus payments from going out so I can't say I believe them when they call this proposal too complicated to carry out. e: Hopefully a reporter is able to make Psaki say something embarrassing about it because that's the best way to get things done these days. Srice fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 18:10
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Willa Rogers posted:The Georgia Dems ran & won based on "elect a Dem Senate & we'll give you $2000, a higher minimum wage, lowered Medicare age and student-debt relief," none of which happened once they were elected. Sweet loving christ can we not try to primary him? Dems are gonna get curb-stomped at this rate of doing gently caress-all.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:13
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Twincityhacker posted:There is also the problem of the underbanked, who probably most need the rebate, but I am not sure how the underbanked got their stimulus checks. The IRS used a nonfiler tool to distribute them, or tried to get people to file a pro forma return so they had an address they could send checks to. They still had to pay check cashing company fees, thought, which I think was part of why they tried that mess with EIP cards. Bishyaler posted:That just sounds like Democrats are dusting off the Republican panic about welfare fraud to justify not helping people. Even if this were true, it doesn't change the fact that you misrepresented the source. The forms of fraud that are generally a concern are people stealing IDs to harvest other people's payments. Srice posted:Somehow, complicated logistics didn't stop the stimulus payments from going out so I can't say I believe them when they call this proposal too complicated to carry out. It put the IRS several additional months behind; the agency's now in an even worse state of collapse.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:14
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Discendo Vox posted:Even if this were true, it doesn't change the fact that you misrepresented the source. This is a bullshit argument and you know it. The posted article was from CNN and exactly zero people are obligated to dig into CNN's original source to find wording more favorable to Democrats.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:16
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Plek posted:Sweet loving christ can we not try to primary him? Dems are gonna get curb-stomped at this rate of doing gently caress-all. this is what the people want to vote for though, centrist Democrats are the only ones who can win
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Mar 21, 2022 18:18
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Bishyaler posted:This is a bullshit argument and you know it. The posted article was from CNN and exactly zero people are obligated to dig into CNN's original source to find wording more favorable to Democrats. It didn't even require "digging into" the original source. You misrepresented the text of the CNN article itself.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:22
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Discendo Vox posted:It didn't even require "digging into" the original source. You misrepresented the text of the CNN article itself. I'm extremely interested to know how copying and pasting the text from the CNN article is misrepresenting the text. I know drowning the argument with technicalities is a fan favorite around here, but try to engage with the actual argument of: Democrats are justifying not helping people with the flimsiest of excuses
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Mar 21, 2022 18:27
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Bishyaler posted:"We can't send people relief because it might be stolen from the mailbox." is the laziest justification for austerity I've ever heard. They're not even bothering to hide that they don't give a poo poo that they caused a gas panic and drove up the price of nearly every product. At this rate they'll be lucky if they only lose the midterms in a landslide instead of triggering an insurrection. Bishyaler posted:The CNN article sure has it. These are two different claims about what the source says. They also ignore the other information provided, including in the root source, which provides further detail.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:32
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Discendo Vox posted:Even your own quote states there are "execution issues and fraud concerns". This is in fact a problem with these stimulus payment programs, and was a programmatic concern with the last several rounds. The root article from Axios identifies that it was one of several actions considered during the ongoing development of a larger response package. That Axios article isn't the source of the CNN article. The CNN article is primarily sourced from an unnamed White House spokesperson who also confirmed the Axios reporting and gave additional statements to CNN.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:34
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Gumball Gumption posted:That Axios article isn't the source of the CNN article. The CNN article is primarily sourced from an unnamed White House spokesperson who also confirmed the Axios reporting and gave additional statements to CNN. Great. This doesn't actually address the misrepresentation of the subject material, or the continuing dismissal of actual specific information about the subject provided in the thread.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:36
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BiggerBoat posted:They can do both. The Dems also are prone to irrational claims about election interference, as we saw after the 2016 general election. I'll never forget how quickly the pre-election claim WHEN CLINTON WINS TRUMP WILL BLAME IT ON RUSSIA became the post-election claim TRUMP "WON" SO LET'S BLAME IT ON RUSSIA. eta: It'd be funny as hell if Dem voters storm the capitol after losing the 2022 or 2024 elections.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:37
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Discendo Vox posted:Great. This doesn't actually address the misrepresentation of the subject material, or the continuing dismissal of actual specific information about the subject provided in the thread. Beats me dude, I'm just pointing out where you were wrong since your reading comprehension also isn't as hot as you think. Honestly I think you're again in one of those arguments where two people look at a collection of facts, come to different conclusions based on those, and you then get really mad that your conclusion isn't treated as a fact. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 18:38
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Gumball Gumption posted:Beats me dude, I'm just pointing out where you were wrong since your reading comprehension also isn't as hot as you think. The CNN reporter got a single confirmatory quote on background so they could repost the content of the Axios article. Hence "mediating gloss". Gumball Gumption posted:Honestly I think you're again in one of those arguments where two people look at a collection of facts, come to different conclusions based on those, and you then get really mad that your conclusion isn't treated as a fact. I also provided multiple specific references and descriptions of how the policies in question work or don't work, and went further in tracking the initial claim back to the Axio source. I am not obligated to meet your lack of effort with acquiescence.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:41
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Willa Rogers posted:The Dems also are prone to irrational claims about election interference, as we saw after the 2016 general election. There are still blue checkmarks on twitter trotting out "Russia helped Trump win" or "Russia stole the 2016 election" as a reason to initiate war.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:47
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Discendo Vox posted:The CNN reporter got a single confirmatory quote on background so they could repost the content of the Axios article. Hence "mediating gloss". I'm not the one you're arguing with, I'm just noticing a pattern of the arguments you famously get into. Anyways, I think we will have an answer when we see what the Democrats do end up on for relief. Nothing comes? It was a show and they used flimsy excuses to not send anything out. Do we get other substantial relief? They just legitimately thought the cards were not a well thought out idea. Right now we're trying to suss out motives of what they will or won't do before they've done any of it, unless we can read minds we're not getting far there. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 18:48
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Plek posted:Sweet loving christ can we not try to primary him? Dems are gonna get curb-stomped at this rate of doing gently caress-all. Who, Biden? "We" (ie: some hapless soul) can primary him, but if he wants the nomination (and isn't talked out of running) then it's his, and the DNC, Congressional committees & state parties will line up behind him. I think it's about 50-50 that Biden will stand for reelection; he's not getting any cognitively sharper, as time goes on, and those polls aren't dropping by themselves. And the bench is pretty grim, anyway: Harris's approvals are even worse, and a I could see a mushy (yet socially progressive) centrist like Polis possibly winning the nomination, but that's a stretch.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:50
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Willa Rogers posted:The Dems also are prone to irrational claims about election interference, as we saw after the 2016 general election. Really? Which Dems did this, specifically? How many lawsuits were filed? How many concrete plans to try and subvert the vote totals or change electors were made by democratic operatives, much like the Eastman memo? Because it really feels like you're setting up yet another equivalency fallacy between the actions of dems in 2016 and republicans in 2020. Not to just outright lying about what "blame it on Russia" actually means - complaints about Russian interference were of course about promoting misinformation online, not outright changing votes, despite how many claim otherwise.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:58
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Solkanar512 posted:Really? Which Dems did this, specifically? How many lawsuits were filed? How many concrete plans to try and subvert the vote totals or change electors were made by democratic operatives, much like the Eastman memo? I'm on my way out, but I'll be happy to respond later if someone hasn't done so first! edit: Wait, are you splitting hairs between "Russian interference" & "blame it on Russia"? If so, I'm not sure if it warrants a reply. 
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Mar 21, 2022 19:01
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Oh yeah: Speaking of gas cards, likely Chicago mayoral candidate Willie Wilson is holding a gas giveaway on Thursday across the city & suburbs.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:02
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Willa Rogers posted:Who, Biden? I still reckon we can't rule out Hillary: Third Time's the Charm
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Mar 21, 2022 19:05
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It 0 pages for the new thread to devolve into the same posters as ever sniping at each other instead of discussing anything. That’s gotta be a new record.Willa Rogers posted:Who, Biden? We’re dealing with geriatric white people here, giving up power and prestige is not an option to them. Best bet to see anyone else is if he dies or ends up in a coma, at which point we get to see Harris lose by record-breaking numbers.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:05
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AmiYumi posted:Best bet to see anyone else is if he dies or ends up in a coma, at which point we get to see Harris lose by record-breaking numbers. She could also win because politics are weird. Donald Trump won. Agree that Biden is very unlikely to not run unless he's having major health problems.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:07
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Willa Rogers posted:Who needs t-shirts when Brandon's ratings look like this? Biden will leave the office as popular, if not less, than Trump.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:11
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Solkanar512 posted:Really? Which Dems did this, specifically? How many lawsuits were filed? How many concrete plans to try and subvert the vote totals or change electors were made by democratic operatives, much like the Eastman memo? My mom fell into this left wing conspiracy pretty hard, that Russia changed the actual votes. I think it's a relatively fringe belief with Michael Harriot being one of the bigger names who fell into it. He did really embarrass himself though.https://www.theroot.com/evidence-shows-hackers-changed-votes-in-the-2016-electi-1827871206 I'd say legitimate complaints were about misinfo and people who were hosed up on the Muellerverse believed in the votes being changed. We can play no true Scotsman to find out how much those people count as Democrats.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:13
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Can't wait for the "so, how did Biden work out eh?" To get fired out of the GOP once the season starts back up. I hope prices get sorted, shits nuts out there.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:17
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Gumball Gumption posted:My mom fell into this left wing conspiracy pretty hard, that Russia changed the actual votes. I think it's a relatively fringe belief with Michael Harriot being one of the bigger names who fell into it. He did really embarrass himself though.https://www.theroot.com/evidence-shows-hackers-changed-votes-in-the-2016-electi-1827871206 That seems like a pretty good mea culpa from him and he's a pretty awesome writer on most subjects.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:25
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Jaxyon posted:That seems like a pretty good mea culpa from him and he's a pretty awesome writer on most subjects. I guess, but no one should be falling into nationalist conspiracy theory.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:38
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Solkanar512 posted:Really? Which Dems did this, specifically? How many lawsuits were filed? How many concrete plans to try and subvert the vote totals or change electors were made by democratic operatives, much like the Eastman memo? they were called the Hamilton Electors, op. and while, like January 6th, their attempt to subvert the electoral college ended up just being an impotent temper tantrum, they -did- actually outdo the MAGA dipshits by changing a couple of votes in the electoral college! my favorite detail is that in order to demonstrate that they weren't being ~partisan~ in their attempt to subvert the american democratic process, they proposed throwing their votes to a guy who had not run for president at all, Colin Powell.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:39
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Willa Rogers posted:The Dems also are prone to irrational claims about election interference, as we saw after the 2016 general election. I disagree. I think they'll blame progressives and "we should have been more moderate". They'll talk about how progressives almost blocked the infrastructure bill (but not really), and ignore how the moderates blocked literally everything else.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:46
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Primary Biden with whom? A quick look at the long list of awesome, inspiring and viable candidates starts with: 1. Tumbleweed blowing by 2. Hillary loving Clinton 3. _____________?
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Mar 21, 2022 19:47
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BiggerBoat posted:A very significant percentage of the population believes that the direct cash payments are directly responsible for the current inflation problem. Republicans pushed this and then Dems immediately agreed, so welp "It can't have been due to the massive amount of corruption, it must have been the one good thing we did" BiggerBoat posted:Primary Biden with whom? A quick look at the long list of awesome, inspiring and viable candidates starts with: Honestly the tumbleweed would probably have a better chance than Biden, it's just as charismatic and doesn't have a history of being on the exact wrong side of nearly every single issue
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Mar 21, 2022 19:48
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Willa Rogers posted:I'll never forget how quickly the pre-election claim WHEN CLINTON WINS TRUMP WILL BLAME IT ON RUSSIA became the post-election claim TRUMP "WON" SO LET'S BLAME IT ON RUSSIA. Was there anyone who even made that bolded claim? I genuinely cannot remember a single person who claimed that Russia was rigging the election against Trump before Hillary lost. Not even Trump himself, and he couldn't shut the gently caress up about election fraud.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:51
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4 years later I drive by a Joe Biden billboard that reads “Miss me yet?” and towards a new fresh hell that awaits US
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Mar 21, 2022 19:51
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BiggerBoat posted:Primary Biden with whom? A quick look at the long list of awesome, inspiring and viable candidates starts with: I'd do it but the minimum age is 35 I feel like that part isn't really super relevant anymore, especially if we want to freshen up the government RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 19:53
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Gumball Gumption posted:My mom fell into this left wing conspiracy pretty hard, that Russia changed the actual votes. I think it's a relatively fringe belief with Michael Harriot being one of the bigger names who fell into it. He did really embarrass himself though.https://www.theroot.com/evidence-shows-hackers-changed-votes-in-the-2016-electi-1827871206 Wait, so now if you question whether or not your mom or some rando blogger is as much of the Democratic establishment as paid members of the Trump campaign/administration inciting crowds or filing lawsuits are members of the Republican establishment, it's just a "no true scotsman fallacy"? Give a me break. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:they were called the Hamilton Electors, op. How is it that when you have a handful of electors vote for someone else as a protest (something that pretty much happens every time), it's considered a massive act greater than the 60+ lawsuits, the insurrection, and the massive efforts to discredit the entire 2020 election? Why do we have to continue playing the dumb loving games where folks pretend that each side is the same when they are clearly not? Also, electors voting for who they want isn't a subversion of the electoral college, that's how it works. I think it's bullshit but those are the rules as written. These electors weren't trying to throw out votes, they were trying to get whole slates of electors replaced and they weren't. So we're now up to 2 electors, a rando blogger and Gumball's mother for the dems, and the vast majority of the Trump administration/campaign as well as numerous republican members of the House and Senate. Yeah, I'm having a really difficult time seeing these situations as the same. Generic American posted:Was there anyone who even made that bolded claim? I genuinely cannot remember a single person who claimed that Russia was rigging the election against Trump before Hillary lost. Not even Trump himself, and he couldn't shut the gently caress up about election fraud. No, no one was making this claim. It's a purposeful conflation of "Russia and groups tied to Russia are engaged in false information campaigns" and "Russia is hacking voting machines or whatever". Then you just keep bringing up the latter without any quotes or sources like it's the truth and run away when anyone asks for receipts. Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 19:55
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Solkanar512 posted:Wait, so now if you question whether or not your mom or some rando blogger is as much of the Democratic establishment as paid members of the Trump campaign/administration inciting crowds or filing lawsuits are members of the Republican establishment, it's just a "no true scotsman fallacy"? Give a me break. Yeah I'm just explaining some people who held that belief because they exist, I don't think they're the same and no one ever really said they are but you need this argument for some reason. I love how you're literally always at an 11 in aggro.
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Mar 21, 2022 19:58
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There are plenty of good Democrats, this is weird and I don't know why we're buying into the "GE Thread" idea that every Democrat is bad and only Bernie Sanders (or fuckin' 95 year old Mike Gravel or something) was an acceptable candidate. Ideas for replacing Biden Senators: Sherrod Brown Corey Booker Chris Murphy Tammy Duckworth Mark Kelly Ed Markey Liz Warren Ron Wyden Patti Murray Governors: Gretchen Whitmer Tom Wolf Jay Inslee Cabinet: Gina Raimondo Pete Buttigieg House members: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Karen Bass Ro Khanna Adam Schiff Sean Patrick Maloney Joaquin Castro Retired/Inactive: Al Gore John Kerry Julian Castro There's 23 candidates already who meet the (relatively low) standard of "roughly as good or better than Joe Biden, and better than Kamala Harris or (  ) Hillary Clinton."Every one of these candidates has something you can say to disqualify them, sure, but so did Biden and he won. And a lot of his shortcomings haven't really been an issue in office because the President largely follows the lead of Congress and not the other way around. e: Also if Biden can run at 80 why not Bernie at 81? "Super old left wing chief executive" worked out okay for California. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 20:08
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Gatts posted:4 years later I drive by a Joe Biden billboard that reads “Miss me yet?” and towards a new fresh hell that awaits US Pretty much. When the alternative is Trump or somebody who managed to out-Trump Trump even more so in racism and fascism, well I'll be campaigning for and voting for Joe Biden without a shred of hesitation. We can't afford to lose our democracy to fascists, not if we want a chance of continuing to try to build a better more just and more equitable nation and to tackle climate change.
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Mar 21, 2022 20:11
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