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VitalSigns posted:Yeah it's kind of weird to be told that the massive pro-choice backlash is going to sweep Democrats into office in November, but anytime anyone starts to backlash there the Dems are scolding them to be more polite (and sending DHS to beat them up) I wonder how afraid the democrats are of another 2020 mass protest scenario and if that might be leading to trying to proactively tamp down on protesting. The democrats have repeatedly bemoaned the property and messaging damage caused by people out fighting for justice and the rights of minorities, despite fundraising like leeches and being propelled into office off their energy. But it might have upset the best voter base of all, conservatives, so democrats immediately turned on them. 2020 saw an energized national democratic base that turned out and narrowly gave Biden the win over a surprisingly still popular Trump, but 2021 then saw democrats at all levels of government poo poo on the protests and hand giant sacks of money to the cops. This 'wedge issue messaging' rake that the democrats keep laying out, carefully lining up, then doing acrobatic pirouettes on as the handle hits their face really feel like attempts to get out ahead of the feistier protesters and distance themselves from any damage to flowerbeds and donut shops the very rude people upset about some dumb bullshit like bodily autonomy might cause. Its going to be really interesting to see if protests actually catch on nationwide to the same degree the George Floyd justice movement did, or if organizers are too tired, incarcerated, or just feeling too betrayed by democrats to get anything going outside of media circus events. I'm kinda thinking it won't because things aren't already on fire. I think we'll see a few sputtering protests here and there, maybe a big corporate sponsored pussy hat redux merch march, and then nothing. People are tired of nothing changing. Plus inflation has been insane, we're about to hit a recession, and COVID is about to remind everyone that it never ended even though Biden is now claiming ending COVID spending programs as a triumph of deficit reduction. So yeah, I think whatever energy we see over the next few weeks in terms of direct action protests is going to correlate with what happens at the ballot box in November. And I think the democrats pro-actively curtailing the reach of those protests and signaling they are on the side of the courts doesn't bode well for groundswell enthusiasm. Rigel posted:The Republican party does not have a problem getting their religious anti-choice voters to vote. Increased enthusiasm doesn't matter much for the side that already votes reliably. The Dem voter apathy problem and the struggle to get people on the left to vote is extremely well-known and documented. The GOP is outnumbered, when Democrats vote they win. Hey, I don't know how to tell you this, but in the Senate land votes, not people, and the GOP covers more land. Discendo Vox posted:The bill is the messaging wedge. The coverage, in advance, to and through fox via an anonymous source, focusing on the prospect of objections, is how the wedge is driven. This is not complicated. The thing I love about this is that it acknowledged the democrats are aware of the trap, know how the trap works, and will still stick their nuts in the trap anyways, but its somehow our fault for looking at it wrong. Maybe the democrats could suck at messaging less?
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May 10, 2022 12:55
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Panzeh posted:Honestly, I think the discussion would be better if you weren't just assuming what you said was true, and trying to out-mad everyone else about what's going on. There's not a lot of interesting discussion to be had about how hoppin' mad you should be that this bad thing happened. I feel like the question of 'when is violence an appropriate solution to having rights stripped away?' is incredibly relevant, personally. How hoppin' mad you should be that this bad thing happened is going to be a defining question over the next few years as incredibly bad things happen with increasing regularity but nobody in charge feels any obligation to do anything because there are no consequences for doing nothing.
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May 10, 2022 13:05
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Nucleic Acids posted:Getting exactly what they want is going to embolden them to go after more of what they want and will get more people who dropped out of voting to vote for them. You need to think like a democrat here, massive demoralizing defeats are what stir people to go to the polls. Delivering victories only makes the base indolent and complacent. This wisdom has served the democrats well these last few decades. To win, one must devastatingly lose.
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May 10, 2022 14:18
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I'm just not seeing the same energy the George Floyd protests brought yet and I'm having difficulty imagining another Cool Zone summer when the political party in charge of fixing the situation is already trying to throw a wet blanket on direct action. That strikes me as real bad for anyone hoping for a black swan flood of newly mobilized voters to turn things around.
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May 10, 2022 14:51
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Jarmak posted:That is an absolutely tiny amount of money for a national election. If you can't scrape together five grand for a senatorial campaign what are you even doing? This is why I support poll taxes. If you can't scrape together five bucks or proof of land ownership to vote what are you even doing?
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Jun 20, 2022 04:29
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some plague rats posted:The problem is that all of this (incredibly patronizing, seriously) spiel seems to assume there's literally no possible federal response and states should just be allowed to get on with it, and doesn't do anything to address the original point of contention with crow, which is that if as you so repeatedly point out the gerrymandering was allowed by elections, how does "people should have voted harder 15 years ago" possibly constitute a meaningful anything unless your plan is to just win every election forever? The only way to save the US is through conversion to a one party state. The communists understand this and it works out well enough for them. When you allow other groups whose central ideology is anathema to your own ideology to share power you inevitably get an incoherent government paralyzed by infighting. Multiparty democracy is a failed experiment, anyone can see this. We just need to embrace one party rule, preferably by an actually good party like Cuba's PCC or China's CCP. In the meantime it surely would be nice if the democrats could stop saying how great the republicans are or how necessary they are to governance. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 20, 2022 07:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It says a lot there is no equivalent of this with the Republicans, the Libertarians compete more for their votes than the Greens ever did for the Democrats, and they never talk about them. Republicans know and accept that they have to earn votes through words and actions, and they have nothing to gain from petulant, condescending and entitled whining about how you don't vote hard enough. One of the funniest things to tell people who are still mad about the Greens in 2016 is that if you assume all 3rd party votes are stolen votes and the two big political parties are owed fealty then not only would Trump still win, but Clinton would also lose the popular vote. McMullin + Johnson + Trump > Stein + Clinton. 3rd party voters saved Clinton from an even more embarrassing face plant. Bonus fact: if you continue to insist third party votes are wasted votes that should go to a major party, the margin by which Trump lost in 2020 was entirely covered by Libertarian voters. If all 3rd party votes are transferable to a major party - a loving weird concept but one the people mad about 3rd party voters insist is true - then the Libertarians would most closely align with the Republicans, and through the same torturous dumbassery that assumes Green votes are stolen Democrat votes, without the Libertarians on the ticket Trump wins the 2020 election. In conclusion getting mad about 3rd party voters is dumb. They play out in the democrats favor more often than not.
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Jun 20, 2022 07:34
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