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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

BiggerBoat posted:

And poo poo like this is barely registering anymore

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/21/us/mass-shootings-weekend/index.html

At least 8 people were killed and more than 50 hurt in 8 mass shootings across the US this weekend

Man, we're just really circling the drain and everyone I know feels it. Mass shootings are below the fold now.

We've already gotten so numb to mass shootings that 28 people being shot doesn't matter since only two people died.

We also have the weird cognitive bias where "shooting where 8 people died = tragedy," but "5 different shootings where one person died at each shooting = meh" because "only" one person died at each shooting.

Once we decided that killing a class of kindergartners was worth not changing gun laws at all, then we pretty much wrote it off. When even a universal background check bill supported by Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey is too extreme to pass the Senate, then you're already in too deep.

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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Bishyaler posted:

Remember how a bunch of people insisted that sanctions wouldn't result in Russian citizens starving? About that.



https://twitter.com/VICE/status/1506058340903882752?s=20&t=9VMAT0xVTru_cS-yVX5bQg

Did you actually read the article?

There are no sanctions on sugar, nobody is starving, and the article explicitly says what the cause is:

quote:

Sugar shortages have been the first major material consequences of the Kremlin’s decision to invade Ukraine felt by many ordinary Russians. It’s been caused by a cocktail of factors that include government attempts to regulate prices, skyrocketing demand and a crash in the value of the Russian currency.

The article even says that Russia does not import much sugar, so even a hypothetical (and again, there are no sanctions on sugar) blockade of sugar would have little impact.

quote:

Russia imports a relatively small amount of sugar

The Russian government doesn't even claim it is the result of outside interference:

quote:

Russian officials insist there’s no sugar deficit and that the crisis is an artificial one, caused by consumer panic-buying and unscrupulous manufacturing and distribution companies hoarding sugar in an attempt to push prices higher.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Mar 23, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

VitalSigns posted:

Is there some reason you cut off half that sentence and then edited the introductory clause to conceal this and make it seem like a complete thought making the opposite point?



Are these the debate standards of D&D now

I was highlighting the point that Russia doesn't import much sugar. The OP said that people were starving, there were sanctions on Russia directly causing this sugar shortage, and that this starvation was a direct result of them. None of which were accurate. The article says that Russia imports relatively little sugar, that there are no sanctions on sugar, and that the Russian government says that isn't true.

Does that change the point that there are no sugar sanctions on Russia, nobody is starving, and the Russian government itself says that there is no foreign cause or even an overall shortage? Those three quotes are disproving the three assertions the OP made because he likely didn't read the article.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Bishyaler posted:

"Similar shortages are almost inevitable as Western sanctions and the continuing fighting in Ukraine isolate Russia from the global economy. Inflation in Russia is rising rapidly and a cost-of-living crisis is looming." That similar shortage linked in the story was wheat.

Ah, the Russian government, suddenly an aboveboard, trustworthy source when you need it to be.

The Russian government doesn't make you not read the article, though. There re no sanctions on sugar, nobody is starving, and literally nobody in the article actually claims that is true.

It's like showing a video of a toilet paper rush during Covid or Black Friday and claiming that people in the U.S. are starving and desperate for food because of sanctions.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Mar 23, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

VitalSigns posted:

Except that is not what the quote says, it says sanctions are causing the problem

It explicitly does not say that. Literally nobody (except for the OP in this forum), including the Russian government, is claiming that people are starving or that the sugar issue is caused by sanctions.

It says that sudden surge in demand, hoarding by vendors, the fluctuations of the ruble, price controls, and skyrocketing demand are the cause.

quote:

It’s been caused by a cocktail of factors that include government attempts to regulate prices, skyrocketing demand and a crash in the value of the Russian currency. Although Russia imports a relatively small amount of sugar, the gyrations in the value of the ruble mean foreign companies are suddenly unwilling to sign contracts with their Russian counterparts.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Mar 23, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

VitalSigns posted:

You also seem to have selectively quoted a lot ie. The part where the Russian government says everything is fine and it's all greedy sugar hoarders causing the problem and curiously left out analysis contradicting the government like

Emphasis mine

The article does not appear to be making the point that everything is fine and the sanctions aren't hurting average Russians idk

Inflation is rising across the entire world and has been for a year. Russia's inflation rate is lower than the U.S. and is not the result of sanctions.

You can predict that there will be harsher sanctions in the future that do end up starving Russians, but the article is explicitly not about anyone starving and not about sanctions. It just isn't. Claiming that the article is about Russians starving because of sanctions is 100% wrong.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 23, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Lib and let die posted:

Leon, people in the US are starving and desperate for food: https://www.savethechildren.org/us/...going%20hungry.

You couldn't have picked a worse comparison if you tried.

They aren't because of Black Friday or sanctions. That was the literal point.

Bishyaler posted:

Watching you argue that sanctions aren't doing what sanctions are specifically designed to do is sure a fun derail. Its almost like you should just take the L and admit the Biden administration made the situation much worse.

Or in Psaki's words: "We have basically crushed the Russian economy"

You just didn't read the article. It's not a huge deal, but you can't post the literal opposite conclusion of the article and then assert that your incorrect statement is right by citing the article you didn't read.

You can predict that there will be sanctions on sugar or people starving in the future. But, you are wildly incorrect to say that the article you linked supports the claim that "people are starving" and it is a direct result of sanctions.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

VitalSigns posted:

This is just your opinion

It is not.

Please find a source that people in Russia are starving due to lack of sugar that is a direct result of sanctions.

If you think that the original assertion is correct, then you are mistaken. If you don't, then we don't disagree.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

VitalSigns posted:

I was talking about the part where you said the sanctions aren't causing inflation, which you should know since you are ignoring the quote from the article that says it, and the official statement from the Biden administration agreeing with it

But yes your nitpick that no one is actually starving due to this, that we know of, yet, is correct but at least according to the article which predicts a "looming standard of living crisis" it's not unreasonable to say it's coming either.

I feel like "read the article you are posting" isn't an incredibly high standard to adhere too. I'm pretty sure it is one of the few actual rules. After he posted it, there were a dozen posts following it of people taking his word for it that people were starving and that there were sanctions on sugar.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:

the big one is minimum wage; miraculously while they had control of state government nobody was ever able to get around to scheduling a vote on increasing it

then that Lee Carter rear end in a top hat made a show out of scheduling a vote on whether or not they should vote on it and the Virginia democratic party made a great show of saying 'no, gently caress off, we do not want to raise the minimum wage'

I think you are thinking of Right to Work. That was the issue where Lee got the local unions, DSA, and Democratic establishment mad at him.

Virginia passed a minimum wage increase that is scheduled to further increase each year for the next few years. Cancelling the subsequent raises is one of the things that Youngkin and the new House Republican majority have as part of their "Get Virginia Back to Work" plan. The original bill passed in 2020 and the repeal passed a few months ago, but it failed because there is a 1-vote Democratic majority in the state Senate that voted down the repeal.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
The KBJ hearings seem to be going pretty normally.

quote:

Tillis: I want you to take a position on adding justices to court. You appeared at events hosted by radical groups that want to expand the Supreme Court, but you say that you won't address your personal opinion on the matter because it is a "political" matter. This isn't even an "I can't recall" situation. You are just not telling this committee.

I'm also deeply concerned about your comments on the need for “empathy” in sentencing.

On trans issues:

quote:

Blackburn: How can you make rulings on the rights of women and deciding who is or is not a woman when you are not a biologist and therefor could not define a woman?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1506450993801842689

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1506635233415897100

quote:

Graham: You gave child rapists sentences that would result in them getting released from prison at some point and advocated for mandatory reviews of life sentences. I think most Americans would agree that, at the very least, they should be dying in prison and not out on the streets again.

Jackson: I think these cases very seriously. That these cases include the notion, by many defendants .. that they are not actually focused on what's happening to the children. It's not just about how much time someone spends in prison.

quote:

Hawley: You consistently gave child predators a lower sentence than prosecutors wanted. Do you think you know better than them? I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

Jackson: Judges are doing the work of assessing in each case, a number of factors that are set forward by Congress. All against the backdrop of heinous criminal behavior. But the guidelines are no longer mandatory, Congress has not corrected the Supreme Court’s determination

quote:

Graham: What faith are you by the way?”

Jackson: Protestant. Personally, my faith is very important.

Graham: How often do you go to church?

Jackson: I'm reluctant to say how often I go to church. But, as you know, there is no religious test in the constitution.

Graham: I go to church three times per year. This isn't your fault ma'am, but I am angry that we have to assume that all liberal women of faith are well-qualified and sincere and you get run out of town if you even question it. Conservative women are treated like an F'n nut. This stuff needs to stop. If you express your faith as a conservative, all of a sudden you're an F'n nut. And we're tired of it. And it's not going to happen to you. But it just appalls me that we can have such a system in America.

quote:

Cornyn: You have called Former President George W. Bush and Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld "war criminals" in past speeches. Why would you do that? It seems so out of character.

Jackson: I'd have to take a closer look at the context.

Cornyn: Is that the language of someone who is going to take in all the facts and impartially judge?

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1506383092000464904

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 23, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
Not a surprise really, but it is kind of wild that nobody will look twice at Lindsay Graham saying that people accused of sex crimes shouldn't get due process and should just be executed without trial or appeal instead.

Ted Cruz has also spent his entire time allotment for questions asking about Georgetown Day School's radical CRT agenda for preschoolers and asking if KBJ thinks babies are racist.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1506345537741770757

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

hawley finds the real victim of child pornography, himself

Yeah, "what if my kids stumble across child porn online and I have to explain that to them" is probably the 74th or 75th most pressing issue with child porn.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

punk rebel ecks posted:

Why do people here hate Lee Carter now? Why is he an “rear end in a top hat”?

I legitimately still don't know why the local unions and DSA decided he was an rear end in a top hat. The issue they cited was that he turned right to work repeal into a selfish self-promotion thing for his Gubernatorial run that he knew wouldn't pass anyway and made sure it wouldn't get a vote. But, the bill was dead in committee for multiple years, so its not like it was on the verge of passing and he made it a joke.

The main thing other elected office holders were mad about was that he "messed up the legislative calendar" by trying to force a vote for something that wasn't going to pass and didn't tell anyone beforehand, so nobody was prepared and they had to delay votes on other things and he "disrespected" his colleagues by not warning anyone and they voted it down 83-13.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

FlamingLiberal posted:

So according to SCOTUS, red states do not have to redraw maps before an election, but blue/purple states do

https://twitter.com/davidnir/status/1506670824656355329?s=21

Reading through the decision, it looks like the reasoning was that the Governor created 7 majority black districts and said that he did so on purpose to comply with the voting rights act. The state Supreme Court didn't write their own map and instead used the Governor's.

The conservative majority are arguing that:

1) The state supreme court was supposed to draw their own map and by just rubberstamping the Governor's option, they violated the procedure for how the map should have been made.

2) That based on the decisions in Shelby County and LULAC, the Governor violated the voting rights act because, by creating those majority black districts, he reduced the amount of black voters in competitive districts without a legitimate reason to do so under strict scrutiny rules and thus reduced the power of voters based on their race.

They aren't entirely wrong, but this is definitely the first time that John "literally wrote the majority opinion in Shelby County" Roberts has decided that a racial redistricting case under the voting rights act had to be redone because it was too "harsh" on diluting minority voting power (which, you can argue they did, but the map actually increases the number of minority-majority districts and was supported by the NAACP, so it is hard to argue the Governor was doing it to "dilute" black voting power.)

It's not too crazy that someone could come to that conclusion, but it is insane that Roberts, Alito, and Kavanaugh would apply basically the strictest interpretation possible (which they have not only never done before, but usually fall way on the opposite side of giving the state overwhelming benefit of the doubt) of the voting rights act right after the Merrill decision last month.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
Florida is now actively refusing to recognize trans athletes, considers being trans cheating, and declaring that only cis athletes can be recognized as winners in sporting matches.

Pretty wild, even given the history of wild anti-trans moves recently.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1506556130390126611

quote:

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said the "NCAA is destroying opportunities for women" and "perpetuating a fraud" by letting transgender women compete in women's sports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis issued an official proclamation Tuesday declaring a Florida resident the “rightful winner” of an NCAA women’s swimming championship race over transgender swimmer Lia Thomas.

Thomas — the University of Pennsylvania swimmer whose record-breaking season has sparked national debate over whether trans women should compete on female sports teams — became the first transgender athlete to win an NCAA championship last week, placing first in the 500-yard freestyle race at the Division I finals in Atlanta on Thursday.

DeSantis said he would "reject these lies and recognize" University of Virginia swimmer and Florida resident Emma Weyant, who came in second place, as the winner.

"The NCAA's actions serve to erode opportunities for women athletes and perpetuate a fraud against women athletes as well as the public at large," the proclamation read. "Florida rejects the NCAA’s efforts to destroy women’s athletics, disapproves of the NCAA elevating ideology over biology and takes offense at the NCAA trying to make others complicit in a lie."

quote:

Since the start of 2021, 11 states, including Florida, have written trans sports bans into law, according to tallies from the American Civil Liberties Union and the Human Rights Campaign, an LGBTQ advocacy group.

DeSantis cited Florida's version of the law, which he signed last year, in his proclamation over Thomas’ history-making win.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:

yeah, my suspicion on that is that the "how dare he try to get us to vote on right to work" thing was a mutually-convenient way for everyone involved to go out claiming to be guns blazing for their ideological commitments, as opposed to an actual reason of "can we please get rid of this guy before the domestic violence story blows up into something bigger, we've already got enough of that between Governor Great-Yearbooks and Lieutenant Governor Look Women Make This Stuff Up All The Time."

because on the face of it, none of the collected hooting and hollering about Carter's ~indecorum~ makes a loving lick of sense. this is the state party that circled the wagons around a guy who publicly said he didn't remember if he was the guy in blackface or the guy in the KKK getup, jumping the line for a vote was ABSOLUTELY not the thing that made Carter persona non grata

I don't think there is any actual evidence for this theory, but it would make a lot more sense in explaining why the local unions and DSA dropped him so thoroughly and so quickly. And why the other elected officials didn't really care when he pulled similar stunts initially.

Either the local unions had a better feeling about right to work repeal or the political situation and felt he actually did mess it up or they were already annoyed/worried about him and this was just a big public thing that was 100% on Carter that they could use as a jumping off point.

Edit: Just saw the mod request.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Willa Rogers posted:

^^^ You keep mentioning how baffled you are that "unions have dropped him" and you've been saying so for months. Have you delved into which particular unions, and their stated reasons? (His staff was the first to unionize in Virginia among pols, btw.)

:confused:

I'm not sure whether what I posted doesn't hew to your framework of current events (student-loan forbearance) or new information (a study about the VA drop in younger voters) or you're just mentioning it as an aside.

If it's the former, please clarify, since I've laid out why I think it was relevant to this thread & followed your framework.

These are all of the unions who endorsed his primary opponent:

- Virginia AFL-CIO
- United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America
- Virginia Education Association
- The national AFL-CIO
- Service Employees International Union
- Virginia Professional Firefighters Union
- Virginia Plumbers and Pipefitters Union
- Laborers' International Union of North America
- United Steelworkers Union
- Communications Workers of America

All of them just say nice things about his primary opponent in their statements, but don't really get into why they didn't support Carter.

One of the reasons its hard to get info on what went down is that basically nobody commented on it on publicly except for Carter and one or two members of the legislature. The local DSA chapter put out a short statement that didn't really get into specifics and most of the unions just endorsed his primary opponent without saying much about Carter. Most of the other stuff comes from random people who worked for Carter, Twitter, or other non-journalistic sources.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Harold Fjord posted:

The business Dem who won or the leftist who split the vote?

The one who won.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
After taking 5 months to solve the daylight savings time issue, congress is moving on to the next largest problem in America: The Penny.

Covid supply chain issues, Zinc shortages, and the U.S. budget deficit have combined to make congress look into eliminating the penny.

The reasons for elimination are:

- It costs ~1.8 cents to make one penny and the GAO has determined that there is no possible way to lower the cost of making a penny to lower than the face value of the coin.
- The U.S. treasury says that roughly 2/3 of pennies minted never circulate. That means they are either lost, sitting in a drawer, or discarded.
- A Gallup poll from 2015 says that 2% of Americans admit that they throw their pennies into the trash and 40% never use them.
- Supply chain issues are not only raising the cost of making the penny, but also producing coin shortages. Despite these shortages, they are still minting money that will mostly never circulate.
- People are using more digital currency and pennies are less necessary for making change.

The arguments for keeping it are:

- Nickels cost more to make than a penny. The mint would have to produce more nickels to make up for the lack of pennies.
- Most coins circulate for an average of 20 or 30 years, so even though it costs more to make a penny than the penny is worth, it will probably still break even over a 20 or 30 year period.
- Pennies are one of the most common donations to charity. Organizations such as the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, the Salvation Army, and the Ronald McDonald House ask people to donate pennies to raise funds.
- The Lincoln Presidential Library opposes eliminating any currency with Lincoln on it and the U.S. Zinc council says that 1,100 jobs are dependent on the penny minting process.

quote:

BLOOMINGTON — A penny saved is a penny gained. But what if there's no penny at all?

That prospect — eliminating the 1-cent piece from the United States' collection of currency — has been floated for decades, with no conclusion except to keep producing and to keep spending the coin.

But both parts of that formula were strained last year, as consumers amid coronavirus pandemic-driven shutdowns exchanged less physical cash and opted to shop online, using credit and debit cards instead of paper money.

Those behaviors and kinks in global supply chains largely translated to a shortage in U.S. currency and a bottleneck in typical coin circulation routes, leading the Federal Reserve in July 2020 to form a U.S. Coin Task Force and to implement plans to allocate limited cash and coins to banks.

The shortage, in turn, revived discussions around the fate of the penny.

"We could do without them," said Garry Garrison, owner of D&G Coins and Sports Cards in Bloomington. "Most people when they get pennies in change they just put them in a jar."

Garrison, who's dealt in collectible currency for more than 20 years, said when a customer's change comes to an "odd-ball" number, he gives out nickels or dimes to avoid having to use pennies.

"If they get 33 cents back, I give them 35," Garrison said. "It's just easier."

Eliminating the penny could also be easier on the federal government's purse.

The United States Mint in the 2020 fiscal year manufactured more than 8 billion pennies, at a loss of around $60 million.

Each penny cost the Mint 1.76 cents to produce, and pennies made up almost 53% of the 15.5 billion coins the Mint stamped-out last year, according to its 2020 annual report.

To cut the lowest denomination currency circulating in the United States would follow similar moves by Australia, Britain and Canada. The latter country stopped producing pennies in 2012 because, among other reasons, they cost more to make than they're actually worth.

In the United States, that deficit has been ongoing for the last 15 consecutive years, the Mint said in its 2020 report.

Nonetheless, public opinion mostly aligns with preserving the penny.

A 2019 poll by Americans for Common Cents, an advocacy group that provides research to the federal government on the value of the penny, found that 68% of those surveyed favored keeping the 1-cent piece.

What's more, proponents of the penny cite a range of nostalgic and historic reasons for its continued use.

The coin can be rolled and pressed with designs to commemorate a trip, or can be tossed into water alongside a wish. And for Illinoisans, the penny carries the image of the state's most omnipresent and notable figure, former President Abraham Lincoln.

The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum did not offer a stance on the debate for this story. But ALPLM spokesperson Chris Wills said the organization does have some pennies in its collection because "we try to keep a sampling of everything Lincoln-related."

In 2009 the Mint commemorated the 100-year anniversary of the Lincoln penny by releasing four penny designs with scenes from Lincoln's life on the reverses (flip sides).

For coin collectors like Jeff Stover, who leads the Normal-based Corn Belt Coin Club, that set and the 2010 redesign that replaced the Lincoln Memorial on the penny's reverse with a Union Shield was a welcomed change to an otherwise overlooked coin.

And even though those iterations aren't worth anything close to the hundreds or thousands of dollars that a "VDB" penny or a "Flying Eagle" penny can bring, they still give people a reason to engage in the hobby, Stover said.

Those channels to bring new collectors into the fold matter, Stover said, because "now everybody is elderly or gone, or not very interested in the hobby."

"Collectors who collect just the Lincoln penny — they’ve dwindled, the base is smaller," Stover said. "I think (the penny) should stay (because) a collector would hate to see that go."

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/circulating-coinage-production-totals-fall-for-2021
https://pantagraph.com/business/loc...b7f787f5d2.html

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 24, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
Also, apparently Dr. Oz was appointed to the President's Council on Sports, Physical Fitness, and Nutrition by Trump and is still there.

But, Biden has asked him to resign or be fired by 6 pm tonight.

Honestly not sure which is more confusing: That he was there in the first place or that they bothered to kick him off after a year of being there into Biden's term.

https://twitter.com/DrOz/status/1506747211257978889
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1506752795604656130

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
WaPo and NYT articles with more detail and context on the massive spike in alcohol-related deaths in the U.S.

tl;dr

- The upward trend of alcohol-related deaths had been occurring before the pandemic and wasn't caused by the pandemic, but really accelerated and spiked during the pandemic.

- Previously, alcohol-related deaths had been on a steady climb of about 3% per year every year in the last decade. But, it was an astronomical 26% increase in 2020.

- Even though there were almost no cars on the road and bars were closed for most of 2020, there were more than 11,000 alcohol-related traffic deaths in 2020.

- Full data for 2021 isn't available yet, but preliminary data indicates that alcohol-related deaths remained around the high reached in 2020.

- Some scientists think this may be a "new normal" and alcohol-related deaths won't start to decrease until consumption goes down.

- Although consumption among the youth has declined, it has been steadily increasing - both in amount of people drinking and the total amount of drinks they average per week - for the last 15 years and doesn't show signs of declining.

- Alcohol sales in the U.S. in the last two years have set a record. 1968 is the only year with a larger annual increase in alcohol sales.

- Even before the pandemic, few people with alcohol problems got treatment. It generally isn't viewed as a problem until law enforcement or major health issues become involved. But, even if everyone with alcohol-related issues did want to get treatment, that there isn't capacity for it anyway.

quote:

Almost a million people in the United States have died of Covid-19 in the past two years, but the full impact of the pandemic’s collateral damage is still being tallied. Now a new study reports that the number of Americans who died of alcohol-related causes increased precipitously during the first year of the pandemic, as routines were disrupted, support networks frayed and treatment was delayed.

The startling report comes amid a growing realization that Covid’s toll extends beyond the number of lives claimed directly by the disease to the excess deaths caused by illnesses left untreated and a surge in drug overdoses, as well as to social costs like educational setbacks and the loss of parents and caregivers.

Numerous reports have suggested that Americans drank more to cope with the stress of the pandemic. Binge drinking increased, as did emergency room visits for alcohol withdrawal. But the new report found that the number of alcohol-related deaths, including from liver disease and accidents, soared, rising to 99,017 in 2020, up from 78,927 the previous year — an increase of 25 percent in the number of deaths in one year.

That compares with an average annual increase of 3.6 percent in alcohol-related deaths between 1999 and 2019. Deaths started inching up in recent years, but increased only 5 percent between 2018 and 2019.

The study, done by researchers with the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, a division of the National Institutes of Health, was published in The Journal of the American Medical Association on Friday. Using information from death certificates, the researchers included all deaths in which alcohol was listed as an underlying or contributing cause. (Only a very small number also involved Covid-19.)

“The assumption is that there were lots of people who were in recovery and had reduced access to support that spring and relapsed,” said Aaron White, the report’s first author and a senior scientific adviser at the alcohol abuse institute.

“Stress is the primary factor in relapse, and there is no question there was a big increase in self-reported stress, and big increases in anxiety and depression, and planet-wide uncertainty about what was coming next,” he said. “That’s a lot of pressure on people who are trying to maintain recovery.”

Among adults younger than 65, alcohol-related deaths actually outnumbered deaths from Covid-19 in 2020; some 74,408 Americans ages 16 to 64 died of alcohol-related causes, while 74,075 individuals under 65 died of Covid. And the rate of increase for alcohol-related deaths in 2020 — 25 percent — outpaced the rate of increase of deaths from all causes, which was 16.6 percent.

The alcohol-related deaths went up for everybody — men, women, as well as every ethnic and racial group. Deaths among men and women increased at about the same rate, but the absolute number of deaths among men was much higher.

Drug overdose deaths also reached record levels during the first year of the pandemic, with more than 100,000 Americans dying of overdoses during the 12-month period that ended in April 2021, a nearly 30 percent increase over the previous year, according to reports issued in November. The number of deaths from opioids in which alcohol played a role also increased.

Young adults ages 25 to 44 experienced the greatest increases in alcohol-related deaths in 2020, rising nearly 40 percent over the previous year, according to the new report.

Available data for 2021 indicates that alcohol-related deaths remained elevated, Dr. White said, but he added that it was hard to say whether that indicated a continuation of the trend because alcohol consumption and deaths generally drop in February after the holidays and then trend back up.

“Maybe they’ll go back down,” he said, “but this could be the new norm.”

The crisis has actually been brewing for years, as drinking among adults has been increasing even as drinking among adolescents has fallen off, said Katherine Keyes, a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University, who was not involved in the study. Mental health struggles were also becoming more prevalent before the pandemic, making people more susceptible to substance abuse.

“As with many pandemic-related outcomes, this is an exacerbation of issues that were beginning before the pandemic for many people,” Dr. Keyes said. “Drinking has been going up for 10 or 15 years among adults, and the trend accelerated in 2020, as some of the motivations to drink changed: Stress-related drinking increased, and drinking due to boredom increased.”

Adults in their mid-20s to mid-40s with children at home were under increased stress as they juggled remote working and learning, she said; those without children, who generally drink more anyway, may have been contending with more isolation and loneliness.

And when people drink at home, she noted, there’s no bartender monitoring the size of the drink — “you have less ability to regulate how much is going into the glass,” she said — and drinking is much less expensive.

But it was the inability or reluctance to access treatment during lockdowns and periods when the health care system was overwhelmed that may have deterred those who needed treatment from getting care, said John Kelly, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and the director of the Recovery Research Institute at Massachusetts General Hospital.

That may have contributed to deaths from alcohol-related liver disease, which accounts for about one-third of alcohol-related deaths, Dr. Kelly said. Other major causes are drug poisoning, which occurs when alcohol is involved in a drug overdose death, and alcohol-related mental and behavioral disorders.

Total alcohol sales in the United States by volume increased by 2.9 percent in 2020 over the previous year, the greatest annual increase in sales since 1968, Dr. White said.

He called for new approaches to addiction that teach people to cope with stress in a more productive manner.

“We are entering an era in public health where we are talking more about promoting wellness and building resilient people,” he said. “What we are doing now is not sufficient. We need to help people live meaningful purpose-filled lives.”

quote:

Michael Barnett, assistant professor of health policy and management at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, said the coronavirus pandemic did not create many new social problems. It magnified the ones some people were struggling with — social isolation, financial uncertainty, the burden of mental illness with not enough available treatment, he said.

“It’s all kind of a perfect storm for addiction to get worse, if not prevent it from getting better,” he said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/03/23/alcohol-related-deaths-pandemic/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/22/health/alcohol-deaths-covid.html

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Willa Rogers posted:

Sincere question: Is there another country in the world with as bizarre of a "healthcare system" as ours?

Because I'm inclined to believe that an invasion by another country is the only way we'll get single-payer before the several decades from now that Dems have proclaimed to be a pragmatic & reasonable timeline.

The U.S. is the only OECD country without a form of universal healthcare.

Israel and the Netherlands have universal private systems that are basically national Obamacare.

But, no other (major) country has anything similar to the general American healthcare system.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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DarkCrawler posted:

As bizarre? No. Worse or no healthcare systems? Absolutely.

This is technically true. The U.S. doesn't have the worst healthcare outcomes in the world (it typically ranks ~18th out of 193), but a lot of that is due to the fact that the U.S. is wealthy and can coast on that. Also, most people are covered through the weird patchwork of public and employer-provided systems.

But, the U.S. has very few guardrails compared to other countries, so despite the fact that it "works" for most people most of the time, the bottom 10-15% of the population or people who run into one of the instances where it doesn't "work most of the time" can fall into a pit that would be almost impossible to fall into in other countries.

The fact that the U.S. is the richest country in the world and #1 in many individual financial/quality of life indicators, but #18 on healthcare is indicative that it is severely underperforming relative to its capacity. It's not "the worst" healthcare system in the world, but it is pretty bad in context.

"U.S. healthcare is better than nearly 90% of other countries" and "U.S. healthcare is a wildly inefficient disaster" are both technically correct, but don't really mean anything without context of how rich the U.S. is and how poorly it performs relative to other countries.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Gumball Gumption posted:

Extra scary thing to consider with this is the new studies confirming pretty much any alcohol is bad for you and causes damage to your brain tissue. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/18/any-amount-of-alcohol-consumption-harmful-to-the-brain-finds-study

I can't remember who said it, but someone had a quote about how if alcohol were invented today, it would be immediately banned and the news reports would say "New drug is highly addictive, is one of the top 10 causes of death, causes 6 different types of cancer, kills thousands on the road each year, heightens aggression, and can be made in your basement with just simple plants!"

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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punk rebel ecks posted:

The general consensus is that it’s roughly 1/5th to 1/3rd of Americans who can’t afford care at all.

These indicators rarely factor inequality to the mix.

For example the U.S. sits around the mid-teens in Human Development Index (HDI). However, it barely scraps the top 30 when inequality is factored in with the IHDI, as the U.S.’s inequality is closer to that of mid-income developing nation than an OCED one. In fact it barely makes the “very high human development list” and wasn’t even on there the year prior. And this report is two years old at this point so the U.S. has undoubtedly sunk even further.

Per capita and median calculations by definition factor inequality into the count. Mean or average calculations are subject to outlier skews.

The U.S. has the highest per capita disposable income of any country, even when taking into account taxes and transfers like free/reduced healthcare and education.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/725764/oecd-household-disposable-income-per-capita/

The standard deviation for distribution in the U.S. is wider than other countries, but the median American has more disposable income than a median citizen of any other country even after accounting for government benefits and taxation.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 24, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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I'm legitimately surprised he's invoking the DPA for climate change. The hesitance to use it for other issues doesn't really make sense if the administration is willing to use it for climate change (which is probably slightly more of a stretch than other potential uses).

It also includes a fun blatant bribe for Manchin by making West Virginia the center of the new domestic lithium battery and green energy production supply chain.

I'm sure in less than 24 hours there will be a lawsuit against arguing that climate change doesn't fall under the national security requirement. It will be fun (not really) to see the justices who normally give the government a wide berth in deciding what is a national security issue (including Alito who once ruled that the federal government merely saying something is a state secret qualifies it as a national security issue outside the bounds of congress and the courts) suddenly decide that the executive branch has gone too far and needs to be reigned in.

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1507041077919891467

quote:

BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DRAFTING ORDER TO INVOKE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT FOR GREEN ENERGY STORAGE TECHNOLOGY

A draft of the executive order obtained by The Intercept would use the Defense Production Act to ramp up mineral production for electric car batteries.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION is drafting an executive order invoking the Defense Production Act to alleviate shortages of key minerals needed for the technology to store clean energy. The act, which would bolster the manufacturing capacity of electric vehicle producers in particular, indicates that the administration is open to using executive power to achieve progressive policy goals as Congress remains reluctant to pass key parts of his green energy agenda.

The order would declare that “ensuring robust, resilient, and sustainable domestic industrial base to meet the requirements of the clean energy economy is essential to our national security,” according to a draft of the document that remains in the “pre-decisional” phase. That reasoning follows a renewed push from the administration on its climate change priorities in light of shocks in the oil and gas market following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The order would specifically call for the “domestic mining, beneficiation, and value-added processing of strategic and critical materials from sustainable sources for the production of large capacity batteries for the automotive, e-mobility, and stationary storage sectors is essential to national defense.” The Intercept has reached out to the White House for comment.

Several senators sent President Joe Biden a letter on Wednesday asking him to use authorities such as those contained in the Defense Production Act, which significantly expands the president’s authority to unilaterally alter domestic manufacturing policy in times of crisis, to “support and increase manufacturing capacity and supply chain security for technologies that reduce fossil fuel demand and fuel costs, such as electric heat pumps, efficient electric appliances, renewable energy generation and storage, and other clean technologies.”

The letter — signed by Democratic Sens. Ed Markey and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, Cory Booker of New Jersey, and Jeff Merkley of Oregon — encourages Biden to make the U.S. less dependent on oil drilling abroad while simultaneously supporting climate goals: “Producing efficient electric products and exporting those goods to the E.U. and other foreign markets would help many countries lower their dependency on fossil fuels, and thereby strengthen their own energy security.” It’s the latest example of progressives in Congress urging the president to use his considerable authority to achieve policy victories. In a release earlier this month, the Congressional Progressive Caucus outlined a substantial agenda that could be achieved with the swipe of Biden’s pen. That list included utilizing the Defense Production Act to bolster the production of green energy technology.

The oil industry is also using the Russian invasion of Ukraine as an opportunity to push back on Biden’s energy policies and lobby for increased production. In a meeting with oil and gas executives on Tuesday, JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon pitched the White House on his own Marshall Plan, Axios reported, to increase energy production in the West and thereby shore up the U.S. and Western Europe’s energy independence from petrostates like Russia. Dimon’s suggestions at the meeting — at which Biden was present, Axios reported — included more liquefied natural gas facilities in Europe.

Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm also invoked the Marshall Plan in comments earlier this week. “I think it’s a moment for us to ask at this point in our history, what is going to be our version of the Marshall Plan for clean and secure energy in 2022 and beyond?”

“This clean energy transition could be the peace project of our time,” Granholm said, speaking in Paris. “But peace always comes after struggle. So let’s give this peace project the focus and the commitment and the resources of a war time effort. Our Marshall Plan.”

The draft order also plays into domestic priorities. Last week, Granholm and Sen. Joe Manchin also announced a lithium battery supply chain program in West Virginia, which mineral production and processing would support.

So far Biden has held the line that the long-term solution to record-high gas prices and dependence on petrostates lies with a clean energy transition. In a speech announcing the U.S. would ban imports of Russian fuel oil and gas, in early March, the president said, “[Russia’s invasion] should motivate us to accelerate the transition to clean energy.”

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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punk rebel ecks posted:

Your link is locked behind a paywall.

Finding an alternative source for what’s likely the same data, I find these numbers difficult to believe that they take everything into account.

I highly doubt Americans have twice the amount of income to play around with compared to EU members or third more than Canadians.

For example, the majority of Americans can’t afford $1000 emergency. With Canadians that number is less than 40%.

They do take all transfers into account. It's been true forever. You can find it hard to believe, but it has been true for many years.

The median U.S. citizen doesn't have twice as much disposable income as the average E.U. citizen. Just some countries in the E.U. The median citizen of Latvia, Hungary, and Portugal aren't the median representatives of the E.U. as a whole. You also have to factor in PPP adjustments. In many E.U. countries, you have large amounts of the population living in a single central urban environment with higher costs of living.

~16% of England's population lives in London. For the U.S., the largest city is NYC and only 2.5% of Americans live there.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Gumball Gumption posted:

I think our very rich skew those averages but the basics of "Americans have few services but more opportunities to get filthy rich and Europeans have more services but less opportunities to get filthy rich" seem to be backed by the numbers. I'd personally like more services and less chances to get filthy rich.

Our very rich don't skew per capita and median measures.

Mean/Average is not the same as Median.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Manager Hoyden posted:

Think again. The US is 27th on the Global Social Mobility index, behind most European nations

Yeah, mobility is actually lower in the U.S. than in Canada or (most) E.U. countries.

The standard deviation of income distribution in the U.S. is wider than those countries.

So, even though the median American has more disposable income than the median E.U. citizen, the absolute poorest 12.5% of U.S. citizens have about equal or even less disposable income than the poorest 12.5% of French citizens; and the richest 12.5% of Americans have significantly more disposable income than the richest 12.5% of French citizens.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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BiggerBoat posted:

There's also the thing where if you need to see a shrink, go to rehab type visits or what have you that a LOT of employers will not work with you and any of these types of interruptions in building cogs for them count against you. I have psychiatrist and pain management doctors that I absolutely have to legally see every legally defined period of time or else I cannot refill my medication. And I can't usually pick and choose what times they have available.

I have a special needs child that I co-parent with my ex. He has ADHD, mild autism and epilepsy. Now, being a responsible parent, this involves meeting with his teachers, doctors and therapists - in addition to tending to his different schedules depending on where we are on the school year calendar. Younger and parentless goons might be surprised how often this poo poo is used against you.

I have worked places that WILL give you the time, but they have some weird "points system" where missing x amount of time or whatever adds to your total and if you accumulate y amount in 6 months or something, it fucks up your review or whatever and can also get you written up. It's some real 5th grade demerit type poo poo. Say an order is due late Friday afternoon, it's Wednesday and they want you to work overtime but you have to pick up your kid that night. They WON'T allow you to come in early on Thursday and stay late then come in Friday early because everyone has to work 8-5 or whatever it is because we are a machine and treat everyone like robots.

Like, I can't stay late tonight but I can be here at 5am tomorrow and work til 6pm. I HAVE to see my doctor Thursday at 9am but I can stay late that night and come in super early the next day. I can come in every other Saturday when I don't have my kid. Companies say "no one wants to work" but don't understand or accommodate the idea that working on yourself is also work. I have had to turn down several jobs simply because I cannot make it work with my parenting schedule and mandatory doctor visits. "Nope. Here, everyone has to work from 7:30 to 4 with a half hour lunch at exact;y 11:30.

If that makes sense.

I've worked places that said you couldn't take a poo poo unless it was break time (assuming you get a work break). This leads to people sacrificing and postponing health treatment - mental or otherwise - because middle management and GM's (who somehow are able to hit the golf course every friday afternoon) have determined that we are all robots, 4th graders and ants. Also, there's no real reason I need to see my psychiatrist for the meds I take except for laws passed that say I do.

Just FYI, they can't actually hold it against you in your review or penalize you financially for medical appointments under FMLA. Sometimes, you might have to invoke FMLA yourself if your employer doesn't want to let you know about it.

They don't have to pay you for FMLA time, but they can't mark it against you and if there is any perception that they fired you or penalized you for FMLA-eligible time, then they can have major problems. Ongoing maintenance or recurring treatment for a mental or physical illness (addiction is considered a illness) will always be covered under FMLA.

You just can't exceed 12 weeks in a year. And your employer has to be bound by it, so it doesn't apply to small businesses with only a dozen people. I doubt a factory would ever fall under that, though.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Mellow Seas posted:

I gotcha loud and clear on median but isn’t “per capita” usually a straight expression of total $/population? I think that eg Bezos WOULD add $10 to the per capita disposable figure income.

Yes, I meant "purchasing power parity" and not per capita. Autocorrect got me.

Edit: My Android phone also wants to autocorrect "PPP" to "FBI" despite there being no common letters in either.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Mar 24, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Harold Fjord posted:

What they can actually do is find every other acceptable excuse to harass you. And often they do.

Many people can't afford to get fired even if they might eventually win a lawsuit about it.

FMLA is pretty ironclad and there actually aren't that many violations annually. They absolutely can harass you about other "legit" violations, though.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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punk rebel ecks posted:

I mean does "disposable income" really matter if people can't afford healthcare, housing, education, and the like where U.S. lags compared to it's Canadian or EU counterparts?

I find there to be a stark contradiction between data saying Americans are living on the edge more than Canadians yet at the same time having more money to throw around.

When it includes transfers for healthcare and education, they are factored in already.

And the U.S. does not lag Canada in affordable housing. Canada's real estate market is currently insane and worse than the U.S.

The average home price in the U.S. is ~$322k USD (~$403,683 Canadian dollars)

The average home price in Canada is ~$748k Canadian dollars (~$596,645 USD)

https://globalnews.ca/news/8620883/...%20CREA%20said.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:

wouldn't put it past him by a long shot, but to my knowledge only one of America and Russia is currently actively engaged in a program of ethnic cleansing at its borders

I've got some bad news for you.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Not surprising given her views on gays and lesbians, but Tulsi has officially crossed over into TERF territory.

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1506937567337345030

Weirdly, Tucker also announced that he considers himself a TERF (although he didn't use the word) because his main problem with trans rights are that it is anti-science and that opportunities for women are being erased by "men" taking their spots in sports, jobs, and politics; and he wants to promote women in those roles.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1506783469581578241

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 24, 2022

Leon Trotsky 2012
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punk rebel ecks posted:

How does it "factor in" when less Americans can afford emergency payments and a third of them aren't getting any type healthcare due to cost?

Because when you are measuring outlays and payments and include transfers for education and health, then you are factoring in taxes and monetary transfers.

Very simplified example:

Two people make 50k.

Person A pays 10k in taxes and pays 3k for medical care.

That is a net negative of 13k from your gross income and Person A has 37k in disposable income.

Person B pays 20k in taxes and receives 5k in in-kind contributions for healthcare from the government.

That is a net negative of 15k from your gross income and Person B has 35k in disposable income.

You're also confusing self-reported survey data with actual data from bank accounts and expenditures.

Leon Trotsky 2012
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:

...you say this, and then when you click through to the Facebook (?) link, the actual crime russian soldiers stand accused of is removing schoolbooks about Great Hero Bandera, which makes me raise an eyebrow.

the Russian invasion is a tremendous number of extremely terrible things. Saddam was not throwing Kuwaiti children out of incubators, Fallujah was not an entire city willing to fight Americans to the death, and as yet, it does not look like our geopolitical rival's goal is genocide.

traditionally the American people really enjoy gassing themselves up by saying so though

Putin is pretty clear on what he thinks about genocide and Ukraine. He doesn't think Ukraine is a real country or real people and that the destruction of the false Ukrainian identity is necessary to free the confused or persecuted Russians in Ukraine who yearn to return the territory to the motherland. That is pretty genocide 101.

quote:

Genocide: Killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

This is his actual official Kremlin translation and a PR release from the Kremlin Wire Service:

quote:

Russia is restoring its unity – the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together – in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

quote:

But the fact is that the situation in Ukraine today is completely different because it involves a forced change of identity. And the most despicable thing is that the Russians in Ukraine are being forced not only to deny their roots, generations of their ancestors but also to believe that Russia is their enemy. It would not be an exaggeration to say that the path of forced assimilation, the formation of an ethnically pure Ukrainian state, aggressive towards Russia, is comparable in its consequences to the use of weapons of mass destruction against us. As a result of such a harsh and artificial division of Russians and Ukrainians, the Russian people in all may decrease by hundreds of thousands or even millions.

Our spiritual unity has also been attacked. As in the days of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, a new ecclesiastical has been initiated. The secular authorities, making no secret of their political aims, have blatantly interfered in church life and brought things to a split, to the seizure of churches, the beating of priests and monks. Even extensive autonomy of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church while maintaining spiritual unity with the Moscow Patriarchate strongly displeases them. They have to destroy this prominent and centuries-old symbol of our kinship at all costs.

quote:

I am confident that true sovereignty of Ukraine is possible only in partnership with Russia. Our spiritual, human and civilizational ties formed for centuries and have their origins in the same sources, they have been hardened by common trials, achievements and victories. Our kinship has been transmitted from generation to generation. It is in the hearts and the memory of people living in modern Russia and Ukraine, in the blood ties that unite millions of our families. Together we have always been and will be many times stronger and more successful. For we are one people.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220224002106/http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181
https://thefrontierpost.com/the-new-world-order/

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:

it raises a question that I genuinely don't know the answer to: is it, in fact, an attack on Ukranian identity to say Bandera was not a hero, but a monster?

there's a pat way to say yes, because it is a fact, he was one of the most prominent fighters for ukranian independence, and a pat way to say no, because his proud alliance with the Nazis is also a fact. is there a way to say he is not a figure to venerate that does not constitute erasing Ukranian culture?

thorny rear end question with a lot of unpleasant possible answers.

No, but saying that Ukrainian identity is fake and you are taking back your land from "Ukraine" and killing those who believe in the false consciousness definitely is.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009
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punk rebel ecks posted:

The Canadian data is calculated by bank account info.

Going by bank account data for America, it is at best equal to that in Canada in terms of the amount of Americans that can afford emergency payments.

Digging into the PPP analysis, it looks like the biggest differences between the U.S. and E.U. are:

- The median U.K. (for a pretty close comparison to the U.S.) household only earns about 72% of the median U.S. household's gross income and the median E.U. household earns about half the median U.S. (some of the E.U. countries are pretty poor and drag down the ratio).

- The median U.S. household pays much less in taxes (the average E.U. personal income tax rate for the median citizen is about double the personal income tax rate in the U.S. and the E.U. has an average VAT/National Sales tax rate of 21%)

- Much more people in the U.S. live in rural or suburban areas with lower cost of living than the E.U. It is not uncommon for 16% to 20% of a nation's population to live in a single urban metro area with high cost of living in the E.U.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Mar 24, 2022

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Leon Trotsky 2012
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DeadlyMuffin posted:

You literally argued it's intentional.

It strikes me as pretty wild to assume there's a mustache twirling conspiracy to starve people or commit genocide with sanctions when there's a far simpler explanation: it's a method to put pressure on governments doing something that the country imposing the sanctions doesn't like.

The civilian population being hurt is not the purpose, and I don't think is even desired except as it puts pressure on the government.

Painting it the way you have is like an apartheid apologist arguing that sanctions on South Africa were imposed to starve people.

Edit: maybe I'm splitting a hair here, but arguing that sanctions are imposed to intentionally kill people or commit genocide seems like an incredibly hyperbolic thing to say

Sanctions have different purposes and target different things. Saying all sanctions target X is like saying all taxes hurt poor people.

Some sanctions the U.S. put on Iran in the 80's, early 2000's, and 2018 were absolutely specifically part of a regime change policy and designed to cause mass economic hardship.

So far, the U.S. has sanctioned 417 individuals, seized boats, prevented the Russian military bank from making currency trades with American accounts, prevented certain advanced targeting computers for missiles from being exported to Russia, and removed Russia from its "Most Favored Nation" trade agreement list that gave it preferential tariff and tax rates under a free trade deal.

None of those are going to cause mass starvation, mass economic pain, or regime change. They might go further and eventually implement sanctions that intend to do that, but they aren't as of now.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 24, 2022

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