|
VitalSigns posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/CNN/status/1505910876796329996 "We can't send people relief because it might be stolen from the mailbox." is the laziest justification for austerity I've ever heard. They're not even bothering to hide that they don't give a poo poo that they caused a gas panic and drove up the price of nearly every product. At this rate they'll be lucky if they only lose the midterms in a landslide instead of triggering an insurrection.
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 17:22
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 22:35 |
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:I can't believe Joe Biden moved the "gas prices" lever to "high", he must be a real dumbass. "We're banning Russian oil" provides a fantastic cover for price gouging which can and is happening. And then the Biden administration does the political equivalent of "Thoughts and Prayers", but if they were too lazy to actually finish saying the phrase, mumbled and shrugged instead. But its great to know that Ukrainian nazis will get relief even though it might be stolen from their mailbox.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 17:40
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Yeah, direct stimulus payments would be a better solution and not leave out people who have already taken the responsible steps of driving an electric car or not driving at all, which could cause resentment. Didn't know Pete Buttigieg posted here
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Here's the actual article, once again actually tracking the claim back to its source is more accurate than a mediating gloss. The CNN article sure has it. "The Biden administration is worried that gas cards won't work because of execution issues and fraud concerns. In the past, cards have been stolen from mailboxes, a source familiar with the administration's thinking told CNN, adding that they are studying the pros and cons of various proposals."
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Even your own quote states there are "execution issues and fraud concerns". This is in fact a problem with these stimulus payment programs, and was a programmatic concern with the last several rounds. The root article from Axios identifies that it was one of several actions considered during the ongoing development of a larger response package. That just sounds like Democrats are dusting off the Republican panic about welfare fraud to justify not helping people.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 18:08
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Even if this were true, it doesn't change the fact that you misrepresented the source. This is a bullshit argument and you know it. The posted article was from CNN and exactly zero people are obligated to dig into CNN's original source to find wording more favorable to Democrats.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 18:16
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:It didn't even require "digging into" the original source. You misrepresented the text of the CNN article itself. I'm extremely interested to know how copying and pasting the text from the CNN article is misrepresenting the text. I know drowning the argument with technicalities is a fan favorite around here, but try to engage with the actual argument of: Democrats are justifying not helping people with the flimsiest of excuses
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 18:27
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:The Dems also are prone to irrational claims about election interference, as we saw after the 2016 general election. There are still blue checkmarks on twitter trotting out "Russia helped Trump win" or "Russia stole the 2016 election" as a reason to initiate war.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
How are u posted:Pretty much. When the alternative is Trump or somebody who managed to out-Trump Trump even more so in racism and fascism, well I'll be campaigning for and voting for Joe Biden without a shred of hesitation. We can't afford to lose our democracy to fascists, not if we want a chance of continuing to try to build a better more just and more equitable nation and to tackle climate change. So how are we defining racism and fascism here? Biden kept a lot of Trump's policy and expanded on some of the most openly racist and fascist institutions.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 20:32
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:The Democrats are hosed. To continue on that theme, here's a post-mortem of a Minnesotan Democrat going through all of the typical motions once they lose an election. Highlights include: Democrats cannot fail, they can only be failed. I supported Trump's wall and they still didn't like me. The party moved left and radicals like AOC made me lose. https://www.inforum.com/opinion/mcfeely-democratic-party-didnt-leave-collin-peterson
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2022 22:39
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:It's just a description of things that are happening. That's why you got powerful descriptive words like 'feel' in the headline. I can't wait until "green nukes" enter the lexicon.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2022 14:39
|
|
|
Speaking of war, it's wild how the Geneva Convention considers that targeting civilians is a war crime but you can engage in economic warfare and starve them to death, no harm no foul. 22.8 million Afghans are facing food insecurity because of Biden's sanctions. Unless those sanctions are soon reversed, it is estimated that more people will die from the economic impact of sanctions over the next year than the number who died in 20 years of war. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2022/03/10/biden-sanctions-afghanistan-humanitarian-crisis/6918023001/
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:I have a hard time believing that the most august publication in the country is so incompetent at communication that they wrote a headline making nuclear war sound not-that-bad by accident, but I am open to changing my mind on this Good thing we don't need to think too hard about it since all interpretations of the headline are stunningly irresponsible.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2022 18:54
|
|
|
Remember how a bunch of people insisted that sanctions wouldn't result in Russian citizens starving? About that. https://twitter.com/VICE/status/1506058340903882752?s=20&t=9VMAT0xVTru_cS-yVX5bQg
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2022 23:10
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:Is the glorious communist revolution a US current event? I haven't been checking the news, much today, but it's wild to see that one get by me. It should be. Throwing capitalism and its supporters in the dumpster would solve a great many of the problems we discuss in here. Almost everything goes back to the consolidation of power and wealth that's inherent in capitalism. Your government and the media are ruled by money. The climate crisis is imminent because of the endless drive for profit and mindless consumerism. There is no plan in place for when oil is predicted to run out in 47 years because transitioning is unprofitable. We let nearly a million die in a pandemic because paying people to stay home wasn't acceptable to capitalists. Russia is attacking its neighbor because a bunch of rich assholes wanted another notch on their barrel.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 05:16
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:What makes it *my* government? Do you live somewhere free from the clutch of capitalism? Odd thing to take umbrage with, but okay. If the party you vote for and identify with is in control of the congress and the presidency, I would say its "your" government. The rest of my post was much more important than whether I wrote "your" or "our".
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 05:33
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Did you actually read the article? "Similar shortages are almost inevitable as Western sanctions and the continuing fighting in Ukraine isolate Russia from the global economy. Inflation in Russia is rising rapidly and a cost-of-living crisis is looming." That similar shortage linked in the story was wheat. Ah, the Russian government, suddenly an aboveboard, trustworthy source when you need it to be.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Russian government doesn't make you not read the article, though. There re no sanctions on sugar, nobody is starving, and literally nobody in the article actually claims that is true. You understand that you don't have a monopoly on the conclusions that can be drawn from stories and accusing people of not reading is a lovely thing to do, right? That's a horrible analogy unless you think that toilet paper is a core ingredient in cooking.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Inflation is rising across the entire world and has been for a year. Russia's inflation rate is lower than the U.S. and is not the result of sanctions. Watching you argue that sanctions aren't doing what sanctions are specifically designed to do is sure a fun derail. Its almost like you should just take the L and admit the Biden administration made the situation much worse. Or in Psaki's words: "We have basically crushed the Russian economy"
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 14:55
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I feel like "read the article you are posting" isn't an incredibly high standard to adhere too. I'm pretty sure it is one of the few actual rules. After he posted it, there were a dozen posts following it of people taking his word for it that people were starving and that there were sanctions on sugar. You don't need a sanction on a specific item for that item to become unattainable under sanctions. People are only punching each other in the face over a food item in a crippled economy, only a fool could infer that food insecurity is imminent. I will now insist that everyone broke the rules by not reading.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 15:14
|
|
|
Velocity Raptor posted:It's kind of amazing that the Democratic Party has openly identified that a.) obtaining the Millennial vote is crucial to winning elections and b.) have identified that pressure from student loans is single biggest issue affecting that group and are still dead set on NOT attracting this crucial voting block by addressing their most pressing issue. There's lots of behaviors exhibited by the Democrat Party that can only be interpreted as some variation of: "Fundraising is easier when we aren't in power". If money is their north star, why would we ever rely on them to be an effective counter to the GOP's creeping fascism.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2022 15:52
|
|
|
NutShellBill posted:So, just curious... Cool reductionist speedrun! How about we start by acknowledging there is a difference between making billions of dollars of weapons available to self-avowed neo-nazi national guard units and having someone with far-right views drive on a road paved with tax dollars?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2022 15:22
|
|
|
Lib and let die posted:Don't care who it is. Let Canada or Mexico, or hell, the asshokes in England come and take us over. Our leadership is simultaneously asleep at the wheel, while ramming lines off the 8-track catching air on hills, blasting metallica, and has a trunk full of C4 on a hair loving trigger. Can't stop with the politicians, have to do something about their oligarch bosses. I hear seizing their assets is in vogue.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2022 15:43
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:How about we start acknowledging that you're completely and utterly exaggerating the presence of neo-nazis in Ukraine? Because this is not the first time this was pointed to you? "Billions of dollars of weapons to neo-nazis" wow how many Nazis are there in Ukrainian forces? Because unless they're flying fighter plans, it is definitely going to have to be a lot for them to have billions of dollars of weapons. "Its only Azov" doesn't really cut the mustard when we know they've been drawing government paychecks for 8 years. Know what's a really good recruiting tool? Facing an existential threat like an invasion, having your leadership interviewed and platformed on CNN, all while the rest of the liberal media softens your image from extremists to plucky underdogs.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:Things can be done by executive order now. Invasion or revolution. You won't get single-payer decades from now either because the whole system was built to shut down things which adversely impact the capitalist class. Just like the Biden admin defending the Trump policy to allow predatory lending, except helping the wealthy ghouls is done quietly where Republicans would be advertising that people should be able to take their own risks.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:Extra scary thing to consider with this is the new studies confirming pretty much any alcohol is bad for you and causes damage to your brain tissue. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/18/any-amount-of-alcohol-consumption-harmful-to-the-brain-finds-study Nice knowing you guys (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
Srice posted:Yeah absolutely. A lot of people (and very importantly, a lot of the media) really buy into the narrative of tough people making tough decisions. And that if those tough decisions result in truly heinous crimes, its okay because you agonized over it a bit. Also objectively awful outcomes are acceptable if you professed to have good intentions. Bishyaler fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Mar 25, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 01:27
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:I found this record of hearings about US sanctions on South African when I was posting earlier. It looks like one of the arguments against imposing sanctions was that people could starve as a result. The sanctions on South Africa to end apartheid might be one of the only arguable success stories for sanctions. I say arguable because there have been experts who argue the exact opposite. The problem with sanctions is they usually end up hurting marginalized people with no power in the decision making for actions which triggered the sanctions. Like Iraq. And Afghanistan. If the argument is that its acceptable to murder a bunch of civilians to trigger regime change, then how are you any better than the regime? And that's if the sanctions were successful, which they overwhelmingly aren't. So no, broad sanctions aren't ethical in any situation, Russia included.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 06:18
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:I think VBC is correctly describing what is theoretically tenable in our current system if the Democrats were anything but controlled opposition. We can wait and see what actually happens and I agree with selec's take there that it is unlikely anything substantial will. Yeah, bottom line is unless Democrats start wielding power effectively they're just fighting a war of attrition until they lose for good. Which is irresponsible foolishness or their goal for underdog fundraising depending on how cynical your view of them is. In either case there is no point in investing time, money, or effort in supporting the party.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
I'm still mad that as the only state with our own bank that we didn't pass a law to accept banking of cannabis related sales. Could've done a good thing and brought in an insane amount of revenue to do public works.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:the state bank may have had to comply with fdic rules or lose protections like insurance on accounts up to $250k. If you consider the amount of revenue we would've brought in from handling all the cannabis sales in the US, I think at that point $250k of insurance is a bit more trivial. Plus the people in our state would love nothing more than an opportunity to tell the Federal Government to gently caress off.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:"Throwing out the whole enterprise" has a couple of problems. Smaller problem first: Haven't a bunch of liberal-leaning people in this thread argued that the mass hardship and death caused by sanctions is worth it for regime change? How come its okay for other countries but not us?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 18:01
|
|
|
Fart Amplifier posted:You're asking for a dictatorship. We must let America fall into fascism because changing the rules to prevent it is authoritarianism (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 19:12
|
|
|
How are u posted:You have framed it as a binary choice between fascism or authoritarianism (left-authoritarianism? I assume?). I don't believe that those are the only two choices. It's a binary choice between giving the system an overhaul or letting Republicans hold a permanent majority, and most people in this country are going to come to that conclusion once it's entirely too late.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
Fart Amplifier posted:Yes, eliminating a branch of government to enforce your political ideology is authoritarianism. And all of the civil rights and voting rights that Republicans aim to revoke won't result in authoritarianism? You're going to West Wing yourself right into never holding office again.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
How are u posted:What do you mean when you say "give the system an overhaul" ? America's institutions need to be adjusted for resiliency against bad faith actors, and that's the bare minimum which needs to happen if you'd like to preserve this system. Otherwise you can continue as is and live under a permanent Republican majority until states start to secede / civil war breaks out.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 19:30
|
|
|
Fart Amplifier posted:You're not going to have any civil rights in red states if you can just ignore the courts. You won't anyway on our current trajectory. Democrats are doing next to nothing to stop red states from impinging on people's rights and they hold power at the federal level. Imagine what happens after the midterms, and what happens after 2024.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Have they? Go ahead and quote 3 or more of them since you said "a bunch". Well, in the last thread here's people that argued for sanctions: Gort posted:Economic sanctions, funding and arming Ukraine are the most obvious ones. Fame Douglas posted:Even Biden's sanctions are disappointing, Jesus Christ is he not meeting the needs of the moment RBA Starblade posted:Oh, I never put that part of it together lol Rad Russian posted:They already backtracked on the "imminent invasion" warmongering nonsense, so no surprise there. US is actively making the situation worse when they can simply step back from the public light about a region on the opposite side of the world from them, and work through existing diplomatic channels with EU allies. EU nations should drive the policy there, declare sanctions, and make public statements of their stance on this. The current approach is no different from the "diplomacy" seen in the Middle East. U.S. presence is actively making the situation worse for people that see the U.S. as the enemy. It's too easy for Putin to rile up support for war right now. And he will have 0 support and a revolution on his hands if he starts talking about France/Poland/Finalnd etc. as the enemies that Russia should go to war with.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 20:34
|
|
|
Kalit posted:My eyes must be deceiving me, who's arguing for regime change in Russia? The point of sanctions is to generate so much human suffering that the populace rises up against their government. This is well established.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 20:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 22:35 |
|
|
Kalit posted:That seems to be your interpretation of what these sanctions are for. That's not what those people were arguing for. Stop making up arguments So you're saying these people didn't understand the consequences of sanctions, and they were arguing from a position of ignorance? Well, uh, that's a weird defense.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2022 20:43
|
|