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What a happy family 
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May 9, 2022 21:52
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The bit after the credits was grim but important context.
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May 9, 2022 22:22
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I Am Fowl posted:The bit after the credits was grim but important context. In the ln this is accompanied by Myne being a bit panicked about the sanitary conditions involved in the whole process. like weirding people out by trying to clean stuff with alcohol or getting the local women doing the midwifing to wash their hands and such. everyone laughs at her for being weird but overall I think the impression is supposed to be that she managed to get them to cut down first day net pathogen exposure by a fairly substantial amount. Something about the combination of that aspect of the scene and a particular thing that happens soon temple-side always felt to me like a thread that would get picked up again someday in the future, but well, it's a long future at the current release schedule, and I'm not dopesick enough to do raw mtl wn.
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May 10, 2022 00:44
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this allusion meant posted:In the ln this is accompanied by Myne being a bit panicked about the sanitary conditions involved in the whole process. like weirding people out by trying to clean stuff with alcohol or getting the local women doing the midwifing to wash their hands and such. everyone laughs at her for being weird but overall I think the impression is supposed to be that she managed to get them to cut down first day net pathogen exposure by a fairly substantial amount. I've not read the WN myself, but from what I heard it melts your brain. I'm sticking with the LN's/Pre-pubs. On a side note, today's pre-pub was certainly exciting!
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May 10, 2022 01:07
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I tried to get into this but I bounced off during episode 18 when (spoilers for an old season) Myne decided to turn a dungeon for dying orphans into a sweatshop for orphan slaves and this was praised as a good thing. I just couldn't handle having "unchecked late-stage capitalism good" shoved down my throat any more. Did they get the exhumed corpse of Ayn Rand to write the story for this?
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May 10, 2022 21:21
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I'd suggest reading some power fantasies where the mc can accomplish anything with their cheats or by coughing up a mouthful of blood instead.
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May 10, 2022 23:53
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KillHour posted:I tried to get into this but I bounced off during episode 18 when (spoilers for an old season) Myne decided to turn a dungeon for dying orphans into a sweatshop for orphan slaves and this was praised as a good thing. I just couldn't handle having "unchecked late-stage capitalism good" shoved down my throat any more. Did they get the exhumed corpse of Ayn Rand to write the story for this? What would you have the sickly 7 year old girl who's on the verge of death and who is currently alive by the grace of the temple she currently attends where she can offload mana do?
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May 11, 2022 00:16
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Nitrousoxide posted:What would you have the sickly 7 year old girl who's on the verge of death and who is currently alive by the grace of the temple she currently attends where she can offload mana do? Don't be a sickly 7 year old girl on the verge of death who is currently alive by the grace of the temple she currently attends. Duh 
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May 11, 2022 00:26
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Nitrousoxide posted:What would you have the sickly 7 year old girl who's on the verge of death and who is currently alive by the grace of the temple she currently attends where she can offload mana do? You mean the one who is a literal millionaire* and specifically said she could afford to pay to take care of them if she took it out of her cut of her business but instead decided to live by the literal mantra of "you don't work, you don't eat"? I don't know, maybe you can guess what I would have her do. Also, it's a work of fiction written by an author who obviously has a bad case of Rand Paul brain so maybe they could write a story where the glorious free hand of the market isn't the answer to everything. *Going by the trope of fantasy money being on par with yen, she has well over 100 million yen / ~1 million dollars at this point in the story Edit: also it's an Isekai so she's a grown rear end adult KillHour fucked around with this message at 00:43 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 00:38
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KillHour posted:You mean the one who is a literal millionaire* and specifically said she could afford to pay to take care of them if she took it out of her cut of her business but instead decided to live by the literal mantra of "you don't work, you don't eat"? Sorry to burst your bubble, but she does not have all the money. She blew about 70% of it giving the 1 gold donation to join the temple. 1 gold is ~ $100,000. This has not been outright stated in the anime so I'll put in spoilers, but it was stated by this point in the light novels she does actually pay the gray priests from the proceeds of the workshop, and Fran, her head attendant actually has a pretty sizable chunk of money he's squirreled away from it that he intends to use for the orphanage if she is ever pulled away as the director I'll remind you again that she's a 7 year old commoner girl who could be executed on a whim by a noble. She cannot just upend the societal structure overnight.
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May 11, 2022 00:46
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KillHour posted:You mean the one who is a literal millionaire* and specifically said she could afford to pay to take care of them if she took it out of her cut of her business but instead decided to live by the literal mantra of "you don't work, you don't eat"? You should probably just stop reading fiction because you clearly can't enjoy anything that doesn't match your view of a perfect world. The fact that you're complaining shows that you have a fundamental problem with the premise which is basically a medieval feudal society based on magic. If you can't accept that well...maybe don't read books that are based in feudal societies. Like I don't know if you realized, but "1 million dollars" is not in fact a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. She could not in fact "just take care of them" at least not for very long
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May 11, 2022 00:47
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KillHour posted:You mean the one who is a literal millionaire* and specifically said she could afford to pay to take care of them if she took it out of her cut of her business but instead decided to live by the literal mantra of "you don't work, you don't eat"? Not sure why you'd assume that the amount of money she has is enough to solve all problems without any real reason or that it's a series about the glorious free hand of the market when the series is like "Nobles can kill you because they feel like it and their blood is shinier than yours", but okay.
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May 11, 2022 00:51
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I'm not expecting my fantasy anime to be a perfect world. But the author has an editorial voice and it's clearly playing up how great the protagonist is by letting children younger than 7 experience the true joy of working for their own food. It's how it's presented as virtuous and it's gross. It's also absolutely hilarious that the claim is being made that I'm incapable of enjoying any work of fiction because I have a negative critique of this one.
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May 11, 2022 00:53
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Supremezero posted:Not sure why you'd assume that the amount of money she has is enough to solve all problems without any real reason or that it's a series about the glorious free hand of the market when the series is like "Nobles can kill you because they feel like it and their blood is shinier than yours", but okay.
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May 11, 2022 00:55
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KillHour posted:You mean the one who is a literal millionaire* and specifically said she could afford to pay to take care of them if she took it out of her cut of her business but instead decided to live by the literal mantra of "you don't work, you don't eat"? This is a p weird take. marketization as unalloyed good is incredibly common in this genre and this is one of the works that has the least of it (disrupting guild system arrangements or apprenticeship based labor allocation is basically never pursued outside the temple, contractual limits on competition are basically always considered good, etc.). at that stage in the story it's not clear what her future will be, but assuming she can continue on the mercantile path indefinitely, cutting her surpluses substantially while providing no sustainable solution to the temple's supply situation just exposes her to financial risk at an early stage where she's basically reinvesting everything into new means of production for each new step in her project. if that assumption doesn't hold, and she needs to go focus on something else other than enterprise development, the chances of free supplies for orphans stably remaining on the budget go down further. if other principals in the temple management structure see this flow of resources into a low-status segment and decide to reallocate it elsewhere, there is no basis for defending it in either the terms of her agreement to join the temple or in the internal management rules. offering work for supplies above subsistence is a perfectly sensible solution to the issue. a large portion of the work is stuff they would be doing anyway if the temple's financial collapse hadn't turned the orphanage into a starvation camp (cleaning themselves and their area, studying appropriate service skills) or practical methods of keeping costs in check (cooking for themselves instead of relying on outside cooks). none of it is a "free market" arrangement in any sense so I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. it is a proletarianization and/or labor discipline process, which is significant precisely because the market is not a magic black box where you can put ideas in and get infinite money out, contra the libertarians. surpluses don't exist because you saved up and made the money work for you. even if you buy stocks and other securities in our world, the returns come from other people working. I sympathize with feeling frustrated at various points in the story about the protagonist being over-cautious about slowly ingratiating herself with unjust social arrangements instead of quickly leveraging whatever advantages she finds toward turning the world upside-down and making war on privilege and power. but hey, it's basically almost the end of the second season before the series named about liking books gets around to acquiring a book. it's a technically valid descriptor of the series, but there's a reason it's not called Reborn as an Overpowered Bookworm with the Strongest Magic in the Ignorant Other World. it's not going for that type of thing. e: I figured this was explicit in the work but I may as well state it here: the orphanage exists to train servants. it is only currently not functioning in this capacity because it is not functioning in any capacity whatsoever. there is no social sanction for the existence of the orphanage as anything else, especially not a place for orphans to hang out without training to become servants. nothing exists in this society without the sanction of the rulers; wholesale destruction is readily preferred over ignoring any mostly harmless problematic element. the alternative to converting the orphans into workers in a production process, whose labor (that they can choose not to do, if the terms are less attractive than the pre-wage subsistence ration provided through the old temple system) creates a surplus, is to subsidize their return to being workers in a service role, whose labor draws a return only insofar as it pleases someone who can appropriate other surpluses. this is an intrinsically less advantageous position to be working in. this allusion meant fucked around with this message at 02:01 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 01:44
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This is an annoying thing to defend because it runs close to the "oh it's their world's culture, our protagonist HAS to do this" that other shows use to justify slavery, and the history of other series makes it understandable that people aren't willing to give it a more generous interpretation, but I really think it's different for Bookworm. Yes, capitalism is bad, and it doesn't help that Myne touts the "if you don't work, you don't eat" philosophy, but everyone in that country--including Myne and her peers--have to work from childhood as well because they live in a lovely medieval era. I don't know what the anime said about it but Myne has explicitly done the computation and realized she can't sustain the orphanage through her own generosity and instead turns it into a self-sustaining workshop whose funds will keep the orphans fed even after she grows old and dies, or much more likely, gets kidnapped, killed, or married off to another duchy.
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May 11, 2022 03:25
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KillHour posted:I'm not expecting my fantasy anime to be a perfect world. But the author has an editorial voice and it's clearly playing up how great the protagonist is by letting children younger than 7 experience the true joy of working for their own food. It's how it's presented as virtuous and it's gross. You said you dropped the series because of that critique. Seems in line with what they said, which was different that what you're saying here. Argue posted:Yes, capitalism is bad, and it doesn't help that Myne touts the "if you don't work, you don't eat" philosophy, Lenin would like a word. LostRook fucked around with this message at 03:28 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 03:25
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KillHour posted:I'm not expecting my fantasy anime to be a perfect world. But the author has an editorial voice and it's clearly playing up how great the protagonist is by letting children younger than 7 experience the true joy of working for their own food. It's how it's presented as virtuous and it's gross. Looking at a series heavily based around medieval fantasy labor dynamics and accusing it of being "unchecked late-stage capitalism" and having "a bad case of Rand Paul brain" because it doesn't have welfare is pretty wild It really comes off looking like you have no idea what capitalism even is
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May 11, 2022 03:31
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getting some real
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May 11, 2022 03:49
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The previous two orphanage directors were, uh, also not great for a whole variety of reasons. Myne, on the other hand, has put her own life in danger to protect the orphans from harm. See the spring prayer ambush a couple of episodes ago.
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May 11, 2022 12:59
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I will say that subsequent events make it very clear that Myne really really isn't interested in extracting a profit and is more about generating a long lasting, self-sustaining impact.
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May 11, 2022 14:28
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Fangz posted:I will say that subsequent events make it very clear that Myne really really isn't interested in extracting a profit and is more about generating a long lasting, self-sustaining impact. Is long lasting self-sustaining impact code for "More books for Myne to read"? Because I'm pretty sure that's the goal. Sustaining impact means more books per second, you see.
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May 11, 2022 14:30
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Supremezero posted:Is long lasting self-sustaining impact code for "More books for Myne to read"? She wants a literate society that persists even past her own death. From season 2 she already has access to more books than she can conceivably read herself.
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May 11, 2022 15:22
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Vizuyos posted:Looking at a series heavily based around medieval fantasy labor dynamics and accusing it of being "unchecked late-stage capitalism" and having "a bad case of Rand Paul brain" because it doesn't have welfare is pretty wild Under Marxism, capitalism is even the necessary next step from feudalism for the development of socialism, but goons seem more drawn to socialism with Dragon Warrior characteristics when it comes to their isekai critiques.
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May 11, 2022 16:55
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I can't defend Myne too much since even she admits to helping the orphans for selfish reason, but I think she did about the best she could in the context of the setting. This world is really, really lovely in a lot ways, and is extra lovely for orphans. The anime does not properly convey what a squalid hellhole the orphanage was before Myne came along. (Check out the LNs for some heinous poo poo). Orphans have basically no rights, and the pre-baptism ones aren't even considered human so no one cares if they die of neglect. All they were entitled to was a bare minimum of shelter and food from the priests' leftovers. The orphans aren't allowed to leave the orphanage, and even if they could leave they wouldn't be able to find employment on account of the apprenticeship system on which employment is based. There is no welfare state, and no safety net other than the orphanage. I don't see what Myne is doing as exploitative. Faced with the fact that no one, not even the temple, was willing the improve the orphans' lot, she made the decision that the orphans would have to help themselves. Despite claims to the contrary, Myne isn't nearly rich enough to support the orphanage long-term on her own income. Her solution was to secure for the orphans the rights to leave the temple to forage in the forest for food and supplies like city children do, and to work to earn money to support themselves and the orphanage. The thing about "those who do not work, do not eat" is overblown because the orphans are still entitled to a minimum of food and shelter as they were under the old system. No one is forced to work. Myne has simply instituted a system of rewards to incentivize the orphans to work to improve their own lot. She also provides a free education. The comparisons to Ayn Rand are pretty funny, because what Myne is doing is seen as highly altruistic by almost everyone in the setting. Ayn Rand wouldn't put those kids to work, she'd let them die as a bunch of leeches just as the temple was doing before Myne took over the orphanage. I'd just like to hear what critics would have Myne do that doesn't require greater social change than she has the power to bring about.
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May 11, 2022 23:11
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This is going to be AOTS for me just because I absolutely love this kind of world-building. Especially when it's transitioning between worlds, which is pretty much what commoner and noble societies are here.Paracelsus posted:Under Marxism, capitalism is even the necessary next step from feudalism for the development of socialism, but goons seem more drawn to socialism with Dragon Warrior characteristics when it comes to their isekai critiques.  about how terrible it is that Myne isn't doing better by what are essentially her slaves, but between the feudalist system she operates under and the nobles that can have her whacked for sneezing at them the wrong way, what the gently caress you do expect? She's being precisely as progressive as is tolerated, which Ferdinand regularly reprimands and restrains her for.
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May 16, 2022 03:19
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A lot of stories barely consider the attitudes of the world they take place in, so when it just has a lot of terrible poo poo like slavery it's just poo poo. Bookworm manages to create a world with a decent exploration of why things are the way they are and how it got to this condition in the first place. It's believable that Myne can't just spend social problems away because society just doesn't see these problems as things to be fixed at a systemic level. Plus, there's a lot of conservatives/traditionalists who wield the sort of power and influence that money can't touch. It's very much a world that's different enough from what we're used to that I can believe Myne cannot solve these problems as easily as the usual isekai protagonist could.
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May 16, 2022 19:35
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Today we learned who was behind the Spring Prayer attack, the orphanage picks up a new orphan, and Myne develops some colored inks.
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May 16, 2022 20:43
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Paracelsus posted:Under Marxism, capitalism is even the necessary next step from feudalism for the development of socialism, but goons seem more drawn to socialism with Dragon Warrior characteristics when it comes to their isekai critiques. I wonder if isekai would constitute uneven and combined development
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May 16, 2022 22:58
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You know, it always confused me how they could have paint and dye but not have any common understanding of how color-mixing works (it's a different principle than our world but it is very much explicable). some of that is down to trade secrets I guess; no random uninvolved party is going to look through your data on what mixes produce what colors and form a testable hypothesis based on other known properties. you don't necessarily get it the first time but coming back to this after reading through part 4 you get a real feel for (not spoiling details but may give away the direction of long-term plot evolution) how deep the lack of dissemination of knowledge is in this world, knowledge that exists and is at least partly understood by its possessors, about how the world and the gods and magic and the government and the temple works, but is kept from everyone, not by any central authority, but by the sheer mass of everyone's incentives to hold onto the advantages of their secrets. the true ethos of the modern library, of free (, optimally organized, and accessible) knowledge for all who would like to know, is so far from that which governs their society, it's nearly the opposite. Myne faces a fairly daunting task in making the qualitative leap to a literate society. ganbare!
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May 17, 2022 01:17
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Myne's totally accidental political (and possibly theological) radicalism has been a fun theme. The values that govern a pre-industrial, pre-mass literacy feudal society are just that different.
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May 17, 2022 01:26
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this allusion meant posted:You know, it always confused me how they could have paint and dye but not have any common understanding of how color-mixing works (it's a different principle than our world but it is very much explicable). some of that is down to trade secrets I guess; no random uninvolved party is going to look through your data on what mixes produce what colors and form a testable hypothesis based on other known properties. you don't necessarily get it the first time but coming back to this after reading through part 4 you get a real feel for (not spoiling details but may give away the direction of long-term plot evolution) how deep the lack of dissemination of knowledge is in this world, knowledge that exists and is at least partly understood by its possessors, about how the world and the gods and magic and the government and the temple works, but is kept from everyone, not by any central authority, but by the sheer mass of everyone's incentives to hold onto the advantages of their secrets. the true ethos of the modern library, of free (, optimally organized, and accessible) knowledge for all who would like to know, is so far from that which governs their society, it's nearly the opposite. Myne faces a fairly daunting task in making the qualitative leap to a literate society. ganbare! Thinking about it now, I wonder if white paint/ink is even possible... hmm...
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May 17, 2022 01:37
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Turns out the new kid has devouring like Myne. Lucky him she was there to recognize it. Arno do be leaking info like a sieve.  Also, came across this this week. Astounding how many JoJo alumnus there are in bookworm https://youtu.be/MV5UwP1vYUs
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May 24, 2022 10:13
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I wonder if the anime will add something to give context to Arno's motivation. As I recall the LN doesn't get into it except as an epilogue side story half a dozen books later.
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May 24, 2022 18:42
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LostRook posted:I wonder if the anime will add something to give context to Arno's motivation. As I recall the LN doesn't get into it except as an epilogue side story half a dozen books later. His epilogue side story is in the book the anime is currently adapting. kirtar fucked around with this message at 21:06 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 19:11
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It's a p short season and there's no obvious stopping point for more unless they do multiple cours, so this is likely the end of the adaptation for quite a while if not forever, and they'll probably make the most of it and adapt a few of those post-epilogue point of views as br extras. that's maybe part of why the season is so short, they've allocated some budget to an extra episode or two. audiences following it as it airs might not appreciate getting side stories after the end of the arc, but it's must-have content for bookworm heads. they definitely do seem to be putting effort into drawing more and more viewer attention to him so I don't imagine they'll just leave that thread hanging.
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May 25, 2022 03:12
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Nitrousoxide posted:Thinking about it now, I wonder if white paint/ink is even possible... hmm... In this episode of Bookworm, Main invents titanium dioxide.
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May 28, 2022 00:51
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Episode ended pretty much exactly where I expected. Turns out getting shoved into a bag makes for a pretty good place to cut. The title card for next episode gives a pretty good idea of where it will end, though there are a lot of good options on when to cut.
kirtar fucked around with this message at 20:06 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 19:54
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Two episodes left. It's a good thing this is a lighthearted slice-of-life anime, otherwise something serious might happen!
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May 30, 2022 20:53
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Ya done goofed again, Damuel.
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May 30, 2022 23:27
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