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Colonel Cool posted:Conservatives and TERFs have latched onto this issue in particular because, unlike most of the things they say regarding trans people, they've found an issue where they may have some small amount of fact on their side. We should not cede that ground to them. So we should not cede that ground by banning trans athletes. Hmm yes, very well reasoned and thought provoking.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:07
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 12:33 |
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"Trans women are women, but shouldn't be allowed to participate in society as women" says cis dude who totally isn't a transphobe, he swears!
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Apr 17, 2022 14:09
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Colonel Cool posted:I was literally answering my own hypothetical (which was illustrating a point that gender identity is not the only relevant factor in sports) because you asked me to. Ask me any question you want. Yes, multiple people in this thread don't think trans women should be treated as women, this is true.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:21
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Colonel Cool posted:We should not cede that ground to them. Also, there is no "we" here. You aren't on our side. You're "them" in this scenario because you both agree that trans women don't belong in women's spaces.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:24
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Colonel Cool posted:Should trans women not on HRT be permitted to compete in elite level women's sporting events? Yes. Now let's see if you're actually consistent, should people with strange genetics like Michael Phelps who only produces half the lactic acid as every other athlete in the pool be allowed to compete? Because he is actually dominating sports which no trans woman is currently doing.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:31
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Ash Crimson posted:i could tweak this comment by one word and it'd be indistinguishable from what anti-trans advocates are asking for; a wholesale ban/exclusion of trans women from large parts of society Women's spaces are one thing but CC just cares so much about the holy sanctity of fairness in competition, you see. Nothing is more important to him.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:39
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Colonel Cool posted:Yes. Because we segregate sports by sex (and sometimes weight), not by genetic abnormalities, and it seems to work pretty well most of the time. If we lived in a world where 1% of the population was born with flippers then I think it would be a pretty fair argument to say that they should be competing in a separate swimming division than the humans without flippers. So you don't actually care about sports, you just don't want trans women to be treated as women. Nothing else really needs to be said.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:40
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Colonel Cool posted:And it keeps getting people to say that actually, yes, it should be allowed, no level of sex based competitive advantage is too much. Which I think is crazy and I think most people would think is crazy. It seems like a pretty useful hypothetical to me. You don't give a poo poo about advantages. E: Colonel Cool posted:You know nothing about me. We know for a fact you speak in nothing but TERF talking points. I have now provided more data than you ever will to back up your hypotheticals. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 17, 2022 |
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Apr 17, 2022 15:09
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Colonel Cool posted:We're going around in circles. Which specific studies? Because the only one you quoted says the exact opposite of what you're claiming.
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Apr 17, 2022 15:41
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Colonel Cool posted:So it's saying that trans women definitely for sure have no level of competitive advantage in any physical area whatsoever and the subject doesn't need to be studied any further? Look at this great example of good faith argumentation.
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Apr 17, 2022 15:53
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Colonel Cool posted:I'm all for waiting and seeing because we absolutely don't have enough data to make strong statements one way or another yet. What I object to is when people get incredibly ideologically dug in to the position that there absolutely definitely for sure is no problem whatsoever and even suggesting the possibility is transphobic. Because that's not a way to make sound data based policies, and is also extremely optically bad on a wedge issue that conservatives are using to justify all sorts of heinous poo poo like banning children from sports. The way to stop bigots from banning trans children from sports isn't to ban trans adults from sports.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:14
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 12:33 |
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Colonel Cool posted:What would you suggest the way is? Enforcing anti-discrimination laws instead of letting pearl clutching cis people lie about caring about fairness in sports when all you really care about is making sure trans women can't participate in society as women.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:18
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