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Hazo posted:Haven't watched them in some time because I don't want to have nightmares, but to my knowledge these are the videos. Don't click, don't click, don't click 
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Apr 20, 2022 01:58
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Mister Speaker posted:This is horrifying. Can you elaborate? I think it's because of decompression. If you go too deep you have to rise to the surface slowly to avoid decompression sickness. If you don't have enough air to go slowly then basically you have to decide whether you'd like to die from drowning or decompression sickness. I assume the latter would have a better chance of survival and hurt less. I assume it'd also be possible to get so far into a cave that you don't have enough oxygen to get back out in time RatHat fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 02:07
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RatHat posted:I think it's because of decompression. If you go too deep you have to rise to the surface slowly to avoid decompression sickness. If you don't have enough air to go slowly then basically you have to decide whether you'd like to die from drowning or decompression sickness. I assume the latter would have a better chance of survival and hurt less. I figured it was something like this, thanks. In some of those creepy videos posted last page they mention sending spare tanks down and tying them off at various depths for divers coming back up. That seems like a pretty crucial part of a plan if you want to go diving anywhere, I can imagine getting nitrogen drunk and just forgetting about it though. How was the Bends discovered, anyway? Did loads of people in archaic diving bells and pressure suits die horribly before anyone figured it out? Also, does 'acclimatizing' to the higher ocean pressure go both ways? I mean, do you need to slow your descent as well as your ascent? And what is the 'hard deck' that a human outside some sort of bathysphere simply can't 'acclimatize' to?
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Apr 20, 2022 02:23
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Mister Speaker posted:I figured it was something like this, thanks. In some of those creepy videos posted last page they mention sending spare tanks down and tying them off at various depths for divers coming back up. That seems like a pretty crucial part of a plan if you want to go diving anywhere, I can imagine getting nitrogen drunk and just forgetting about it though. No, only if they're doing weird deep dive excursions. Regular scuba diving does not need this. Mister Speaker posted:
No, you can go down as fast as you can equalize your sinuses. The problem is the deeper you go, the more compressed and concentrated the gases you're breathing become, so you can tox yourself if you're dumb and don't know what you're doing and go too deep or stay at depth for too long. (Or you know exactly what you're doing, and exactly how saturated you will be, and set up the aformentioned spare tanks of different gas mixtures at different depths for when you're coming back up to decompress safely). You have a dive plan going in. You know the site features and profile, planned depth you're going, planned dive time. If you don't, you're a tourist being led by a guide at an easy site anyway. 99.99% of dives are basic "doing a lap at a site with an ocean floor of 60 feet and look at some fish" and the limiting factor is how inefficient a person is at breathing and how fast they huff and puff through the air in their tank, and the dive's over before they're too saturated. Which, once you have that dialed, obviously can get pretty boring unless, like I said earlier, you live at an S-tier diving area. But if you don't, that's where the appeal of making it more challenging and more involved (with cave dives, deep dives, etc) comes from. stratdax fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 02:28
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Pitdragon posted:So this guy died and they never even got his corpse out, they just buried it with explosives and concrete. Here's the official compilation of US caving accident reports 2009-2010. That guy is on p. 16. No gross pics but obviously plenty of detail. Another incident has this description: quote:Little information is available on this incident, but considering it was a 2 AM trip to a cave locally known as Stoner’s Den probably explains a lot. Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 02:31
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i like nice words
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You can go down a lot faster than you can go up, because "not having gas in your joints" is basically the natural state. You still might need to rebalance the pressure in your sinuses, and going from sea level to deep-sea pressure in the snap of your fingers would still be a real bad time, but you can basically descend as fast as you can swim without needing to do any "compression stops" or anything like that. Basically, when you breathe, some of all the gases you're breathing dissolve into your blood, soft tissues, and so on. If you climb a mountain or a low-pressure weather system moves over so that there's more pressure of gas in your blood than in the surrounding air, that excess will gently diffuse out again, and that pressure change is so gradual that it can do that without any problems. If you've been deep under the water breathing really high-pressure gas, there's a lot of gas dissolved in your blood. If you return to normal pressures quickly, without giving that gas time to gently diffuse out, it will instead bubble out not-so-gently in a way that's excruciatingly painful and can be lethal. So you need to go to lower pressures slowly, giving the gas time to diffuse out before you can finish ascending back to the surface. For longer or deeper dives, you might need to wait at one decompression stop for quite a while just so that it's safe for you to ascend to your next decompression stop. Complicating this is that the gas you're breathing at shallow depths might be literally poison as you go deeper, while the gas you're breathing at the deepest part of the dive might literally suffocate you if you tried it at shallower depths.
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Apr 20, 2022 02:42
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Wow, morbidly fascinating, thank you.Jabor posted:Complicating this is that the gas you're breathing at shallow depths might be literally poison as you go deeper, while the gas you're breathing at the deepest part of the dive might literally suffocate you if you tried it at shallower depths. Is this just because of the difference in pressure of the gas you're breathing in, or is the mixture of gases something that needs to vary with depth? They touched on this in one of the videos last page, I think, but I don't really get it.
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Apr 20, 2022 03:00
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Mister Speaker posted:Wow, morbidly fascinating, thank you. Oxygen itself gets toxic if the pressure is too high. So if you're diving deep enough to where that's going to be a problem, you'll have a cylinder of gas where the percentage of oxygen is far below what we have on the surface, that can only be safely used when you're deep enough that you're still getting enough oxygen out of it.
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Apr 20, 2022 03:04
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Mister Speaker posted:Wow, morbidly fascinating, thank you. You should take a scuba diving course, you're clearly interested. It's a bit like when you're a kid you think driving a car is impossible magic, but after having your license for a bit it's super simple. All the gas mixture theory and planning comes into account well before you're actually in the water. And like I said in my last reply, worrying about gas mixtures is completely irrelevant to any dives you'll do when you're starting out and irrelevant to the vast majority of dives that happen. Unless you're doing weirdo advanced dives but it's not like those happen accidentally. Read my last post! stratdax fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 03:18
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If you're doing extreme deep or long-term diving, you can use a rebreather which is a closed-circuit system so you're not outgassing oxygen and getting the bends. Or, use a mix of gasses like nitrox (nitrogen and oxygen) or trimix (nitrogen, oxygen, and helium) to reduce the chances of narcosis/bends. These are all incredibly complex and technical techniques that involve extensive training and can be super dangerous and I don't gently caress with them at all.
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Apr 20, 2022 03:21
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check out scuba-dweeb over here got his whole mermaid getup ready hahha! *slaps your mouthpiece loose* d'aww he dropped his wittle pacifier hahah! *pulls on your air tank* yoo buddy you're looking a little woosy what you got in this thing hahh! *squeese's your rear end* you looking to explore some holes or something? ehhehe! *really grabs on to your flank* drat waterboy here does his laps hehhe! *notices your swollen pole struggling beneath your neoprene suit* uh oh you got the bends allready! you need to de-pressurise quick! *get's on his knees infront of you* ssshh don't argue i have to perform mouth to mouth but to your dick! ok mmh yeahmm mmmmhm (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 20, 2022 04:13
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Leper Go-getter posted:check out scuba-dweeb over here got his whole mermaid getup ready hahha! *slaps your mouthpiece loose* d'aww he dropped his wittle pacifier hahah! *pulls on your air tank* yoo buddy you're looking a little woosy what you got in this thing hahh! *squeese's your rear end* you looking to explore some holes or something? ehhehe! This is how every diving instructional video I've seen has gone yeah. I don't want to go diving but I do enjoy the research.
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Apr 20, 2022 04:14
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an egregious stroke
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Apr 20, 2022 04:59
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Mister Speaker posted:Is this just because of the difference in pressure of the gas you're breathing in, or is the mixture of gases something that needs to vary with depth? They touched on this in one of the videos last page, I think, but I don't really get it. But gas exchange doesn't care about the water pressure, it depends on the absolute partial pressures of the gases at your lung tissues. Higher gas partial pressures will shift the equilibrium point so that concentrations in your blood are higher, and the increased concentrations will do things for physiologically active molecules For example, normal surface air is roughly 0.8atm of nitrogen and 0.2atm of oxygen for 1 total atm of pressure. Humans function well at the blood nitrogen & blood oxygen concentrations that makes. But if you take that same air mix and compress it to 6 atm so it matches the pressure 200ft down, now you're breathing 4.8 atm nitrogen and 1.2 atm oxygen => blood oxygen & nitrogen concentrations are higher => those higher concentrations will mess you up Technical diving can work around this by having a tank of something like 97% helium and 3% oxygen so that when it's compressed to 6 atm, the absolute partial pressures are 5.8 atm helium and 0.2 atm oxygen. The helium has no physiological effect and the oxygen is at a happy level. But if you try to breathe that same tank at 10m (2atm), there's only 0.06atm of oxygen and you suffocate. (Also you won't have any out-of-breath/suffocation reflex, that's driven by high blood carbon dioxide and you're still breathing out fine)
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Apr 20, 2022 05:46
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Scooby Doo's get sent to the death cave.
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Apr 20, 2022 07:30
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Soo can someone make a syringe you jam into the thigh and it gives you a blast of benzos and a whip-it so you can shortcut your way to the surface? I feel like we can solve this problem, we have so many drugs!
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Apr 20, 2022 08:05
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stratdax posted:You should take a scuba diving course, you're clearly interested. It's a bit like when you're a kid you think driving a car is impossible magic, but after having your license for a bit it's super simple. All the gas mixture theory and planning comes into account well before you're actually in the water. And like I said in my last reply, worrying about gas mixtures is completely irrelevant to any dives you'll do when you're starting out and irrelevant to the vast majority of dives that happen. Unless you're doing weirdo advanced dives but it's not like those happen accidentally. Read my last post! You do have to be careful that SEA PATROL don't get you though
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Apr 20, 2022 08:37
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I can hold my breath for about 30 seconds and can't swim so people freediving into caves might as well be walking on the moon Still can't tell if it's more insane than free climbing, but I think it is. Reason being falling off a cliff face seems pretty dope compared to drowning in a cave.
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Apr 20, 2022 08:38
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I refuse to dive further than the mouth of a cave, and I’m not at all claustrophobic. 1. In open water dives, you always have the emergency option of inflating your vest straight from the tank which sends ya right to the surface. Doing it from too deep will give you the bends, and that will Suck, but you’re alive and you’ll recover. Can’t do this in a cave. 2. You never dive alone. Always with a buddy. Well if your buddy panics and kicks up a dust cloud…You could have done everything right but still die a terrifying death because someone else screwed up. Those two things are where I draw my line of acceptable risk. I might consider it if I spent a few days stashing a bunch of spare tanks, running lines to clip in to and maybe an air compressor setup on the surface as a backup-backup. And it would have to be for some pretty cool caveman paintings on the other side.
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Apr 20, 2022 09:16
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Mr. Meagles posted:I can hold my breath for about 30 seconds and can't swim so people freediving into caves might as well be walking on the moon No way that free diving in a cave is a thing right? Right?
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Apr 20, 2022 09:22
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I think what we need to tackle these people is an absurdly militarised, massively violent, and poorly rendered paramilitary version of the coast guard with roving anti scuba diver death squads But I'm not sure such a thing exists
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Apr 20, 2022 09:27
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Lotta Recreational Diver talk itt Get my axe handle and the Sea Grinder!
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Apr 20, 2022 09:47
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Say what you will but exceptionally skilled cave divers saved those boys in Thailand which was incredible. If not for them they'd all be dead. It's absolutely not for me but I get the desire to explore the unknown, even at great personal risk. I think it's pretty selfish and hosed doing it when you have family, or spouse and/or dependants who you will devastate with your death, but I get the drive. Most proper cave divers don't just dive randomly unprepared into these caves, there's a vast amount of knowledge and expertise in what they do. But yeah sometimes accidents happen, just like in every other dangerous activity. Watch the doco called The Cave on the Thai soccer team, it's incredible and emotional. Only disappointing part is they didn't include any interviews with the boys themselves but maybe they or their parents didn't want to.
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Apr 20, 2022 10:18
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Isn't it just the "eXtReMe" mindset? Like people hanging off of ledges for fun, going into holes for fun or climbing mountains where 100 others died etc? Like, that guy Donald Cerrone who was posted on the previous pages isn't just into Cavediving, he's also into professional MMA, bullriding, motorcycles and just generally anything that gives adrenaline
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Apr 20, 2022 10:38
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Zzulu posted:Isn't it just the "eXtReMe" mindset? Like people hanging off of ledges for fun, going into holes for fun or climbing mountains where 100 others died etc? Like, that guy Donald Cerrone who was posted on the previous pages isn't just into Cavediving, he's also into professional MMA, bullriding, motorcycles and just generally anything that gives adrenaline Filling the void with adrenaline and fear so you don't have to look at how empty you are.
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Apr 20, 2022 10:51
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putin is a oval office posted:Say what you will but exceptionally skilled cave divers saved those boys in Thailand which was incredible. If not for them they'd all be dead. What a buncha pedos
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Apr 20, 2022 10:53
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Say what you will about the Elon child deathsub but at least it had an ipod
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Apr 20, 2022 10:57
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Yes, OP.
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Apr 20, 2022 12:58
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Pontificating rear end posted:Some of these stories are truly terrifying; there's about 4 diving stories between these two links This is exactly the content I don't watch. Not because of the subject material, but because it's about some random bro mugging the camera.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:02
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The cavedivers that stopped Chernobyl round 2 were pretty rad.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:05
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No. 6 posted:This is exactly the content I don't watch. Not because of the subject material, but because it's about some random bro mugging the camera. The worst thing about that dude is his thumbnails. He's a good storyteller and I like that I can listen to him while I work. No judgment if it ain't your thing, though!
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Apr 20, 2022 14:50
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Hazo posted:Especially when the deaths are caught on video. There are two incidents that have stuck with me. One was Yuri Lipski who got into an uncontrolled descent and filmed himself screaming for help and drowning at the bottom of the Dahab Blue Hole. How does an uncontrolled descent happen? From the wiki link it sounds like he just somehow plummeted to the bottom of the blue hole.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:02
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Mister Speaker posted:
Two quotes from a Short History of Nearly Everything, which is a fantastic book. quote:The bends have been an occupational hazard for sponge and pearl divers since time immemorial, but didn’t attract much attention in the Western world until the nineteenth century, and then it was among people who didn’t get wet at all (or at least, not very wet and not generally much above the ankles). They were caisson workers. Caissons were enclosed dry chambers built on river beds to facilitate the construction of bridge piers. They were filled with compressed air, and often when the workers emerged after an extended period of working under this artificial pressure they experienced mild symptoms like tingling or itchy skin. But an unpredictable few felt more insistent pain in the joints and occasionally collapsed in agony, sometimes never to get up again. And how was it studied? quote:Whereas his father’s principal interests concerned miners and poisoning, the younger Haldane became obsessed with saving submariners and divers from the unpleasant consequences of their work. With Admiralty funding, he acquired a decompression chamber that he called the “pressure pot.” This was a metal cylinder into which three people at a time could be sealed and subjected to tests of various types, all painful and nearly all dangerous. Volunteers might be required to sit in ice water while breathing “aberrant atmosphere,” or subjected to rapid changes of pressurization. In one experiment, Haldane himself simulated a dangerously hasty ascent to see what would happen. What happened was that the dental fillings in his teeth exploded. “Almost every experiment,” Norton writes, “ended with someone having a seizure, bleeding or vomiting.” The chamber was virtually soundproof, so the only way for occupants to signal unhappiness or distress was to tap insistently on the chamber wall or to hold up notes to a small window.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:20
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Solenna posted:Two quotes from a Short History of Nearly Everything, which is a fantastic book. lol the late 19th and early 20th c ruled
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Apr 20, 2022 16:28
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Cocaine is a hell of a drug
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Apr 20, 2022 16:59
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I think it was mentioned a page or 2 ago but Shadow Divers is really good. It's about some divers trying to identify the remains of a U-Boat where no U-Boat was ever recorded sunk, either in American or German or British records. The boat was at a depth that at the time, there were only a relative handful of people in the world who were qualified to dive it. Also features a real world example of a diver making that "drown or bends" choice and the aftermath.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:14
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PokeJoe posted:YouTube recommended me this spelunking father son channel and I watched a few vids and became sufficiently terrified, just why Way to endanger your kid for the YouTube views. Also great part where he asks his son how to avoid panic and the son says to remind yourself to keep calm and breathe but then immediately had a little panic attack because his knee got stuck.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:48
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Solenna posted:Two quotes from a Short History of Nearly Everything, which is a fantastic book. Holy poo poo
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Apr 20, 2022 18:12
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Nuts and Gum posted:Soo can someone make a syringe you jam into the thigh and it gives you a blast of benzos and a whip-it so you can shortcut your way to the surface? I feel like we can solve this problem, we have so many drugs!
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Apr 20, 2022 19:58
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They should have that on airplanes instead of the useless oxygen masks imo
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Apr 20, 2022 20:02
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