|
umineko Episode 7 sucks and I loving hate Bernkastel kyrie murdering people was kinda badass tho battler please come back from the milk store Yaoi Gagarin fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Nov 12, 2022 |
#
¿
Nov 12, 2022 18:40
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 14:27 |
|
|
started episode 8 babby ange is adorable
|
|
#
¿
Nov 12, 2022 19:49
|
|
|
big big umineko Episode 8 spoilers with an important question I need clarified: OK, so in this game Ryukishi basically says "come at me bro" and therefore my sister and I decided we wanted to solve it, or at least lock in our theory, before even looking at the hints section. Based on these rules: - Characters who are not culprits only speak the truth - It is possible for a culprit to lie - Purple statements are as absolute as red truths. However, the culprit alone may lie with purple statements. We can infer that any time two or more characters say contradictory purple statements, one side must be a culprit (and if someone self-contradicts they are definitely a culprit but I haven't noticed a case of that yet). This is a great tool, but I've found one confusing place where I'm not sure what to make of it. Fourth twilight: Shannon is found dead in the garden after all the survivors of 1 & 2 seal the mansion and move to the guesthouse. Purple text is bolded. Gohda: "When the two of them left, we were busy checking the locks around the guesthouse. So, not one of us has an alibi...!" George: "Me, kill her?! How could I have killed her?!!" Maria: "That's right. George onii-chan couldn't kill her, uu." Jessica: "Later on, we learned that George nii-san alone had an alibi. At least regarding Shannon's death, it was impossible for George nii-san to be the murderer." Battler: "To turn it around, ......anyone could have killed her besides George-aniki." In this case, am I to interpret Gohda's statement as contradicting Jessica and Battler's statements? Or even contradicting Maria's statement in white? I think I can resolve it without contradiction with this logic: 1. Even though "characters who are not culprits only speak the truth", it's possible for statements in white to be honest mistakes. That makes some sense, because if white statements had to be perfect they would not be any different from purple. 2. The definition of "alibi" is used strictly to mean "something that can definitely establish the suspect's location or physical capability in a way that exonerates them", and therefore excludes things like "they were his fiance". 3. When Battler and Jessica say "it was impossible" in purple, they are referring to George's mental state. In English, they mean that he would not kill Shannon, not that he could not. 4. When Jessica says "George alone had an alibi" in white, that is an honest mistake. 5. Therefore, Gohda's purple statement does not contradict the things everyone else says. Am I going crazy? I don't want there to be a contradiction here, it would mess up the best theory we have so far. Our theory is that the culprits are Battler, Rudolf, and Kyrie. Kyrie does the 1st twilight and pretends to be dead, Battler "confirms" her death, then she sneaks away and murders Krauss and Natsuhi (and maybe Battler gets his kill there as well, since Kyrie only needs 6 kills). Then Kyrie stays in that room forever, Battler goes to the guesthouse, and Rudolf roams in and around the guesthouse killing people. I can't remember offhand but I believe it's possible to construct a sequence of board states where Rudolf can be let in or out of the guesthouse by Battler when necessary. But if this conversation about Shannon really has a contradiction, it blows up this theory. We have to bring either Jessica or Gohda in as a culprit, and there's a chain of death confirmations that goes [All servants] -> Nanjo -> Jessica -> George & Maria, and at that point you have so many culprits and so few victims that not everyone can get their own kill. Well, assuming that "a culprit must carry out all murders directly, by their own hands" means no shared kills are allowed. As long as each culprit needs at least one unique kill and the 1st twilight culprit needs six then we're pretty sure that 5 is the maximum number of culprits
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2022 20:41
|
|
|
Umineko ENDING spoilers do not read Overall it was fine I guess. I like that Ange got to meet Tohya. Kinda sad that he's not really Battler anymore but he was able to let go of Battler's "soul" and let it drift off to the Golden Land so that's nice? My sister is pretty unhappy that the theme of not believing in witches/magic was kind of lost and even inverted but I don't really mind too much. Some lingering questions: 1. What actually happened on the island? I think there's no 100% exact definite answer because that's the whole point of the Single Truth being not worth learning. My guess is it was something like a freak accident with the explosives and nobody was actually at fault. That's why Ange was so sad about reading it, an accident reduces everyone's death to meaningless bad luck. 2. The mechanics of the Beatrice/Shannon/Kanon trinity. Is Yasu just constantly spiderman-changing in and out of their Shannon and Kanon costumes? Does the family know? What do George and Jessica think? There's even scenes where both are in the same room with other people including Battler so wtf??? I'm planning to read the umineko manga at some point since I heard some things are explained a little more straightforwardly there. For Higurashi - y'all suggest the VN first or the anime? E: I joked to my sister that umineko is neither fantasy nor mystery but a western. But thinking about it more it feels kinda true? The story is not really about the events in it, it's about the characters and their struggles. Like once upon a time in the west or something Yaoi Gagarin fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Dec 1, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2022 09:13
|
|
|
LordMune posted:This is where everything we see being fiction is critical. IIRC early on it's pointed out that Shannon and Kanon being scheduled for Island Work at the same time is unusual. Maintaining both personas at the same time is theoretically possible and thus permissible in a story, but would not have worked out—nor probably even been attempted—IRL. Only the narration (i.e. Beatrice) and compromised characters ever acknowledge Shannon and Kanon being in the same room at the same time. I suppose that makes sense. But do George and Jessica actually know? And they're cool with it? One of the theories we had was that at one point they actually were two separate people, but one died and the other took on their persona out of grief or something. But it sounds like the right answer is that they are definitely the same person.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2022 19:06
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:According to the manga, exactly what was presented in 7 as the truth. You'll notice that during the events of 7, what happens to Battler is never detailed, and Beatrice's body goes mysteriously missing before Eva wakes up. This links back to the ending of 8, in the Magic ending, where Shannon guides Battler to the hidden cave. Well that kind of sucks. I had hoped that was just Bern bullshitting. I don't like evil Kyrie and Rudolf
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
I think I have a love-hate relationship with Umineko
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2022 20:20
|
|
|
without love, it cannot be seen and even with love you might need special glasses
|
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2022 04:58
|
|
|
So Math posted:Made it to the episode 5 credits. Spoilers for episode 8 as usual. Did you mean for episode 5? Or are you re-reading or something? Unclear if I can post at you with full story spoilers or not
|
|
#
¿
Dec 3, 2022 09:29
|
|
|
Spoilers for all the episodes: The hints for the whydunit feel pretty subtle in the question arcs. I didn't really remember anything pertinent for Battler's sin. My sister thought of the conversation on the beach where Shannon mentions how Battler left saying he would be back and stuff, but we were very unsure if that was actually it. It's a very minor line that you can read as just establishing Battler's personality. I don't even think there was anything to suggest that Shannon took it seriously. I believe it's the only scene in 1-4 that establishes this. Because of how subtle it is, even though we knew about that conversation, we couldn't really believe that it was the motive for everything. Partly this is from being unfamiliar with Ryukishi's style. I didn't know how far he'd go to bury the mystery. If I were to read another mystery he wrote I think I would get it sooner because now I know he's willing to do crazy poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 7, 2022 06:35
|
|
|
You really got two lions. Don't forget Sakutarou! 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2022 07:25
|
|
|
More spoilers for everything Why are Shannon and Kanon even present in episode 7? Does Lion pretend to be a servant???
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
i cant stop watching umineko memes
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2022 22:30
|
|
|
I think that's the longest tea party in the game
|
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2022 06:56
|
|
|
I have a new hypothesis. Massive spoilers, of course. Gohda must be the culprit. Only he would be skilled enough to hide small bombs in the candy. Therefore, Gohda is also Kanon. When Kanon calls Gohda fat, that's self-hatred caused by dysmorphia.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 16, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:Posting about this in hopes something shakes loose in my brain ‘cuz I’ve figured out all these drat riddles so far until Kanon’s and I sure don’t wanna cheat myself out of a good riddle. Which one was that?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 21, 2022 09:27
|
|
|
Rockman do not read this yet They're definitely being confused by the select culprit screen since they think they can only pick one. Should we tell them or let them figure it out?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2022 17:03
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:okay I've been fuckin' pondering this all day now and I'm finally back at it, time to see if something clicks. since it's been several hours: you can click more than one culprit on that screen
|
|
#
¿
Dec 29, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
Elements of glass onion & knives out are very similar to umineko
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2023 00:26
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Umi and Knive's Out have some similarities in form but differ completely in tone. Umineko is a sincere story, Knives Out is insincere. Willard would say it doesn't understand the heart
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2023 02:27
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:is this where I get to say bernsip.jpg because bernsip.jpg Yeah, just go for it
|
|
#
¿
Jan 10, 2023 20:40
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:Hmmm. The first hint is either entirely less than helpful OR clarifies a rule that should have been laid out better from the start - I certainly don’t recall anything implying the culprit *can’t* tell the truth using purple…was there?. It kinda changes things considerably. The culprit MAY lie in purple but is not required to
|
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2023 21:53
|
|
|
try writing it down or drawing a graph and such. that helped a lot
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2023 02:56
|
|
|
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:Can someone explain/give an interpretation, unless the episode spells it out better later? keep reading
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2023 16:42
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:going back through some of the spoilers in this thread and had to comment on your fantastic new av Thank you! My sister drew it for my birthday 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2023 21:54
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:tell me not to get the one winged golden eagle tattooed on my thigh like beato the elder do you want to be kinzo's furniture
|
|
#
¿
Sep 22, 2023 16:10
|
|
|
spoilers for everything: does the non-human-ness of servants actually matter for the count of humans on the island? my memory is that was handled through other means. kanon and shannon counted as one person instead of zero, for example.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 20, 2024 03:35
|
|
|
Also Lambda is the referee. You can think of Erika's actions as Bern writing secret orders and giving them to Lambda to resolve.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2024 18:30
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 14:27 |
|
|
Cyouni posted:The power of being outthought by a 9 year old. i love your avatar
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2024 01:38
|
|