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Odd Wilson posted:If you're wondering what's up with this design, I had it pointed out to me that this is because it's somewhat inspired by the Qilin/Kirin- somewhat draconic horses of mythical power. It also explains how they got "Corrin" as a default name. The absolutely most aesthetically offensive take on a Kirin I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. It's just... not good, I hate the design so much.
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Jun 15, 2022 22:03
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Obligatum VII posted:The absolutely most aesthetically offensive take on a Kirin I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. It's just... not good, I hate the design so much. I criticize a thing or two about it in the next update, as we particularly get a close-up on the face there. Now that I know they were going for a Kirin it explains some of the design, but I'm still not a fan of the execution. The original title for this update was "A wild stickman deer dragon appears!" by the way.
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Jun 15, 2022 22:37
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It's been forever since I've seen the Easy mode version of this map. That type of strategy with Kaze and Rinkah on Hard or Lunatic will get you murdered. I don't think it's possible to beat this map on harder difficulties without abusing dance and Sakura's aura. Also yes, Sakura would make a great Oni Chieftain; I usually make her a Basara and she does well.
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Jun 15, 2022 22:55
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While we're talking about distinct reclasses, if you decide you don't particularly enjoy Dancer gameplay, Azura follows in Olivia's footsteps by being very frail but remarkably combat capable if you snag the right class for her. I've run Azura as a Berserker in vanilla Fates and as a Wyvern Lord in Gay Fates, and both times, while needing some help patching up her HP, she was otherwise real deadly.
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Jun 16, 2022 01:05
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i remember making a post in the general fe thread ages ago where i came up with a better idea for explaining how the throne works on the spot and accidentally confused multiple people into thinking that it was a plot point that was lost in translation
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Jun 16, 2022 02:29
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I have never gotten past this map since I don't have the patience to solve it on hard. I always lose at least one person, and cannot avoid a dragon killing enemy
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Jun 16, 2022 03:38
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Jadecore posted:While we're talking about distinct reclasses, if you decide you don't particularly enjoy Dancer gameplay, Azura follows in Olivia's footsteps by being very frail but remarkably combat capable if you snag the right class for her. I've run Azura as a Berserker in vanilla Fates and as a Wyvern Lord in Gay Fates, and both times, while needing some help patching up her HP, she was otherwise real deadly. She's honestly pretty capable of killing (if not surviving) in her default class, that Str growth is huge. I typically keep her as a dancer but she still racks up enough kills for a silver statue without grinding for it.
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Jun 16, 2022 09:11
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:I have never gotten past this map since I don't have the patience to solve it on hard. I always lose at least one person, and cannot avoid a dragon killing enemy Kaze and Rinkah pair up on the right with Sakura in support range and Azura to dance. Corrin can tank the left side no problem and can even take 1 hit by a wyrmslayer if necessary. It helps if you feed 2 or 3 levels on Kaze in the previous chapter. It also helps if you know where the reinforcements come from, since they don't appear until you aggro the 2 mercenaries and mages in the bottom. Since they don't move or attack when they appear you can move Corrin into position to kill the 1 on the right when he appears. By the time the 1 on the left reaches you the enemies on the bottom will be cleared out. It's a map that pretty much requires playing slow and turtling a bit. It's even more hectic on Lunatic since there are 4 dark mage reinforcements instead of only 2. I usually end up with Kaze around level 9 by the end of this chapter. Makes him much easier to use in Conquest.
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Jun 16, 2022 11:34
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Update 8: Just Not Into Dragons, Sorry (Ch.5 - Mother, Part 2) (Going ahead and posting this out of the backlog as my hands still hurt.) Last time, our intrepid heroine was consumed with rage after losing her probably real mother after knowing her for less than 2 chapters. How shall this resolve?   With all her enemies defeated but her rage unspent, Corndog is now throwing a tantrum in place.  Music: JP Cutscene Audio (I might as well link it, I guess.)  AZURA: You are the ocean's gray waves ♪ And yes, it's gray waves time again. Yes, we heard this literally last chapter. Feels like you should space out your big thematic song a bit, no?  *Azura's pendant is emitting a strange watery magic as she approaches our despairing heroine.*  *Corndog's since stopped throwing a tantrum as she continues to approach.*   RYOMA: Azura! No! Stop! *He charges in, unarmed.*   *A brief but violent vortex of water surrounds her, throwing him back.* If this was only something she could do in gameplay.  *She looks back at him before continuing the song.* Some serious "could you not" energy in this image.  AZURA: You are the ocean's gray waves, destined to seek ♪ Life beyond the shore, just out of reach...   *She continues to approach, even more determined.*  *Corndog begins to shrink away.* "listen lady, you're scaring me here"  AZURA: Yet the waters ever change ♪ We've finally heard another line of the song!   Alas, Corndog's had enough of this song already.   *Our enraged heroine suddenly claws out at Azura and she collapses to the ground.*  *The dragon begins to roar, but...!*    AZURA: Flowing like time ♪ The path is yours to climb... you have 16 HP and like 4 DEF, how did you live that   *Corndog grabs her neck in a split second, pinning her to the ground.*   AZURA: Kill me if you want, but... do it as yourself. She doesn't really mind the asphyxiation, but she's just not into the dragon look.  Speaking of, I still wonder about the facial design of it here. The no eyes and ridged mouth thing looks more like a Pokemon than anything else. I can easily imagine more appropriate equine/dragonic designs than this. Anyways, I'll stop crashing the cutscene with my design nagging.  *After a moment of silence, Corndog lets go and pulls back.*   *She vanishes into a cloud of violent mist...*  And as we fade to black, we can dimly see her human form, although her head is still on fire. I assure you, it will have no effect on our bedhead whatsoever.  *We fade back in to find a normal Corndog clutching at her head.* Her hair is still a  *A strange green magic rune emanates from her as she wrenches backwards.*  CORNDOG: *huff* *huff* Ughhh... I...I finally remember! I remember... And so we fade out again...   Music: Obsidian Ruler(This isn't maybe exactly what plays here, but the cutscenes usually have unique music from what I can tell.)  GARON: Fire at will.  We cut to seeing a man who looks similar to Ryoma getting hit by many, many arrows.  *He falls onto one knee, his katana supporting him.*  GARON: I'm disappointed in you, Sumeragi. That wasn't even my best trap.  *He draws an ornate short halberd/long greataxe out from under his cloak.*  I can't believe Bad Dad is actually a bad guy   *A critical slice and a scream is heard as the screen literally is cut to a transition.*  *A shaky view, low to the ground looks up at the fallen Sumeragi.* GARON: You poor thing.   GARON: Orphaned at such a tender young age...  *He reaches out to the screen, recreating a familiar image from the last flashback.* GARON: You are my child now. Heheheh.... This is the most aggressive means of adoption possible. I suppose if Mikoto's sacrifice wasn't enough to convince you, here's a more solid declaration of who our heroine's real dad is. Although, I guess there's nothing to say we couldn't have been adopted on this side too...  Music: As All Stars Fall(Some sad piano to capitalize on the tragedy before us.) CORNDOG: My real father... AZURA: Are you all right, Corndog?  CORNDOG: Yes, I'm fine. Just disgusted with myself. Are you OK? I can't believe what I just did to you. It was like...I had no control over myself.  AZURA: Please don't worry about it. That wasn't you. "I mean, really, that look does you no favors."   AZURA: It was the blood of the ancient dragon that runs in your veins. CORNDOG: I thought only the Nohrian royal family had dragon blood.  RYOMA: The blood of the Dusk Dragon runs in the Nohrian royal family. And the blood of the Dawn Dragon runs through ours.  RYOMA: But you're special, Corndog. You can actually take the form of a dragon!  AZURA: I've heard of such a thing. But this is my first time seeing it in real life... If you wanted the Robin and Chrom comparison to match even more... CORNDOG: ... *She gets off her knees and looks around.* CORNDOG: Never mind me. What happened to all the innocent people in town? Oh, right. We did just witness the equivalent of a terrorist bombing, we should probably get to helping the survivors. (Despite having Sakura loaded for this scene, she doesn't do anything. Did they just forget? I get that she's shy, but maybe even a line of concern for your sister?)  We are given a panning view of the desolated plaza. Many ruins still smoke, one is on fire, and even the large dragon statue is damaged.  CORNDOG: I can't believe this. The entire town...devastated. An hour ago these streets were filled with vendors and children and... RYOMA: So you see, Corndog. This is the work of the Nohrians. This is what they do. Let me guess. That sword you carried... was it a gift from King Garon? CORNDOG: Yes.  RYOMA: He masterminded this whole thing. It's not your fault.  RYOMA: He knew you'd be captured and brought before the queen... CORNDOG: But why? Why would he do this? I'm so sorry I couldn't see it coming... then why did you keep the sword when it threw you off the cliff   TAKUMI: Your apology means NOTHING. CORNDOG: ...  TAKUMI: This is all your fault! Mother is dead, along with countless others. And it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't shown up on our doorstep.  TAKUMI: You don't belong here! He was gonna be a jerk before, but now he'll be even more of one. He's also not wrong, us being here did kind of catalyze the situation, but this was going to happen anyways, indirectly through Corndog or not.  RYOMA: Enough, Takumi! AZURA: Your words won't change anything. And besides— TAKUMI: Shut up, Azura! You're no different than Corndog. An interloper. AZURA: ... CORNDOG: Takumi...  TAKUMI: Don't speak my name. I don't ever want to see you again. Are we really to believe you had no idea this would happen? I'll give you this, Takumi, she really should've seen it coming.  HINOKA: Takumi, what are you saying? Knock it off! You just saw Corndog help us defeat those Nohrian soldiers! AZURA: Takumi, please. You must listen. Corndog is your sister. If you don't trust me, that's one thing. But Corndog is your own blood. TAKUMI: Mother is dead. Thanks to her. She's not my sister. CORNDOG: I'm so sorry, everyone. I've brought nothing but pain to all of you. It would be better if I'd never come here—maybe I should just leave. That's actually sort of the plan.  Music: Silence  YUKIMURA: Please wait. I don't believe that's what Queen Mikoto would have wanted.  TAKUMI: What would you know about it, Yukimura? RYOMA: What do you mean? Did she say something to you?  YUKIMURA: I hate to deliver this news, but... Queen Mikoto foresaw her own death. Well, that's convenient and rather sudden information. Did she foresee specifically sacrificing herself for Corndog, or did she do that then as she partially knew her death was inevitable and she had to make the best of it? There's some good potential depth to this, but I don't know if the game will ever expand on it. This being here also tries to handwave why Corndog kept the sword by enforcing Mikoto would have died anyways, but that's still bad because at least someone should have brought up the thing. I'd even be happier if she'd just left it behind and the assassin showed up with it, presumably having recovered it. Yes, I'm really bothered by the gangly sword.  YUKIMURA: This isn't your fault, Corndog. King Garon set these events in motion. YUKIMURA: And the queen speculated that there may be an even darker force at work. She didn't know when or how death would strike, only that it was certain. YUKIMURA: And there's one other thing. Please take a look at that statue. Oh, okay, she just knew she was going to be unavoidably murdered and that's all. It's still possible she didn't tell everything, though.  *We are shown the top of what's left of the large dragon statue- a sword lies stuck in it.*   CORNDOG: Is that...a sword? RYOMA: It can't be... YUKIMURA: It is. The divine sword Yato. Much like your weapon, Ryoma. The divine Raijinto... And your Fujin Yumi, Takumi... Yato may be wielded by only a singular warrior. This is happening now, of all times is incredibly contrived, but I guess we can maybe wave it off as it's something Mikoto also foresaw.  YUKIMURA: One who is chosen by the blade itself. YUKIMURA: It is said that the Yato was forged to be the key to peace in our world. CORNDOG: The key to peace...  Music: Those Who Visit(We'll be hearing this theme frequently, actually. It's an interesting decision to use this here.)  *The Yato rises from the stone, high into the air!*  *And then it flies towards the group!* ...It does so flat-wise, not blade-wise for some reason.  *Corndog catches it!* ...Now it's flying blade-wise?  Cool, we got a new named sword, I guess.  RYOMA: The blade has chosen Corndog! TAKUMI: Impossible.  HINOKA: Corndog, do you know what this means?  SAKURA: Corndog? Are you listening? Can you h-hear us? (this is the first line sakura has said all update)  You got Yato. Oh, sorry, she's spacing out because I have to hit A to clear this item get dialog.  *She raises the sword to the sky.* And then we fade to black because I guess Corndog's not gonna say anything. Fair enough, this scene's gone on long enough.   KAZE: Lord Ryoma! I have important news. KAZE: A massive Nohrian force is gathering at our border. *Everyone recoils in shock.* RYOMA: This is the final straw. I have worked hard to avoid an all-out war, but now... RYOMA: Death is too good for them. Who's with me? When's the best time to launch a war effort on a rival country? When you've assassinated their leader and left them without established administration of course. With Mikoto's death, her psychic pacification barrier is gone.  CORNDOG: There must be another way. Surely the answer is not more bloodshed. CORNDOG: But I feel I must follow Ryoma to the border. If I can help avert total war...  AZURA: Wait, Corndog! There's something you need to know. If you become embroiled in a fight right now, it would be easy to lose control. AZURA: Your dragon blood could take over again. And if you yield completely to the dragon, you may lose your humanity altogether. CORNDOG: Is there anything I can do? As we don't have time for classes on anger management, we'll have to settle for the next best thing.  *She pulls out a small gem.* AZURA: Yes. This is called a Dragonstone. AZURA: It will allow you to control the dragon's power and still return to your human form. Now, please close your eyes... CORNDOG: Very well...   *It and Corndog begin to shine.*    AZURA: ... AZURA: There. You should be OK now. This Dragonstone is now attuned to you. Be sure to keep it safe.  CORNDOG: Thank you, Azura. I don't know what I'd do without you. AZURA: Oh! Um... slow down you two, you barely have any support points with each other   CORNDOG: I'm sorry. Did I make you uncomfortable? CORNDOG: I know we've known each other only a short while, but I feel close to you. CORNDOG: You already risked your life to help calm my dragon form. CORNDOG: I only hope I can repay the favor someday. AZURA: Thank you, Corndog. AZURA: I feel close to you as well. I feel...safe when I'm with you. AZURA: I wish to keep you safe too. That's why I'm coming with you to face Nohr. And so she joins our party for good. Although, now remains the question why Azura has one of these, especially when actually transforming into a dragon is a trait of legendary nature. I don't know if we learn why she had it, but given her song helped to bring Corndog out of dragon form we can assume there's something involving dragons in her past.  You got Dragonstone. So yes, Corndog's special class is in fact, partially a Manakete from other games. Our weapon rank with dragonstones is set to our sword rank at this point, so it's not lagging behind in that regard. I was going to discuss the execution of Nohr Prince/ss versus Tactician from Awakening, but it just made me realize that it is forever until you get an actual mage in this game. I think it's chapter 8 at the earliest for every route. I don't really know what to make of that. I guess it partially removes an avenue of complexity on the player's side, but I don't know if I agree with it. Might just be my mage bias speaking, I like mages. Either way, that's the chapter! We're finally on the precipice of the actual game, and next time we actually reach Revelation(s) content. As for the story so far, my complaint of them stuffing too many plot hooks and reveals too close together stands strong. We get barely any time to consider what's all going on as we continue to get plot thrown at us. The only solution to that is to either pare out some plot points, or the better option of merely moving them forward in the story a bit more. There's a conspicuous moment at the beginning of this chapter where an indeterminate amount of time has passed since Corndog got here- it almost feels like there should've been a chapter there. I do know there's space for it though, there's plenty of fluff chapters later in the game. We meet Mikoto for a chapter and a half before she dies for us, and I'm sorry to say it's hard to get attached. They try to stuff in a lot of sympathetic qualities, but there's no time to let it sink in. Gunter's death might even be more meaningful than hers if the game didn't suffocate it with the astral dimension stuff at the same time. As for the assassination itself, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes... at least in regards to Garon. Presumably Ganglari was just there to kill Corndog, otherwise, why did the assassin target her specifically and why else would it throw her in the bottomless chasm? The only way I could ascribe this situation to Garon is maybe predicting Mikoto would defend herself better if she was properly targeted, and Corndog just being a convenient change in the situation. (Lilith was likely an unexpected factor as I highly doubt Garon knew a random stablehand was an ancient dragon that would happen to be there rescue Corndog. He'd be more likely to convert Lilith into a military resource if he knew about it anyways.) And so, we go back to Yukimura's statement of "a darker force" at work, and the fact that Ganglari was infused with otherworldly energies. Something force going out of it's way to specifically kill our ancient dragon heroine? More likely than Garon, at least, and those two throwaway lines are pretty much all the information we'd recieve on our mysterious assailant if we weren't doing the Revelation route. Without Revelation's existence, this whole setup is really weak though. How much weaker? Well, that's yet to be seen. Overall, there's foundations in places to write a good story from some of these ideas, but the primary issue I'm having is how much plot is being rapid-fired at us. This whole update? Cinematic stuff, sure, but it's not Chapter 5 material. This is midgame twist kind of content- you don't usually get your legendary sword until many chapters from now for a reason. You'd have to restructure some of the story to move that there, though, as waiting that long would also delay the mechanical usefulness of Corndog's class. They kinda designed themselves into a corner wanting a 3-way route split. I understand the idea behind not making it too long, you don't want to have that much repeated content or something as long as Lyn's story from FE7, but the problem there lies in the mechanical design. By this point in Awakening, you have more units than you can field (compared to our at most 5 units), supports opened, and online features enabled. Sure, it doesn't have a route split in mind, but it feels less bothersome to replay through. (Lyn's story also only covers a small part of the main plot anyways over those 11 chapters, while Fates tries to stuff far, far more setup in less than half the time.) Rectifying, (or at least attempting to do so,) these issues is for a later discussion. Not much else I can cover this chapter, so off we are to await the next update, where the Big Momenttm goes down. ------------------------------------------- CORNDOG: Would you believe that transforming doesn't really hurt? It really looks like it should, but it just feels a bit weird. CORNDOG: I even skilled at doing it quickly, enough to do it in battle rather than for only dramatic moments.  CORNDOG: ...I was never able to find a way to get random children to stop throwing these weird orbs at me though.
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Jun 20, 2022 14:50
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I already thought this dragon looked weird as hell, but I was not prepared for how much weirder it would look in still shots. A lot of those screenshots made me literally stop and stare to wonder what I was even looking at.
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Jun 20, 2022 15:54
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This all gets into what I think is my deepest-set problem with Fates: I just don't like either of these countries. Nohr is so comically evil they may as well be ruled by Cobra Commander, and Hoshido is so disturbingly magical and perfect that I reflexively feel a perverse hatred of the place.
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Jun 20, 2022 15:57
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Cythereal posted:This all gets into what I think is my deepest-set problem with Fates: I just don't like either of these countries. Nohr is so comically evil they may as well be ruled by Cobra Commander, and Hoshido is so disturbingly magical and perfect that I reflexively feel a perverse hatred of the place. I feel the same way, plus not liking either of the main characters. Our fun "Corndog" persona at least makes the PC way more tolerable. But all the pacing problems mentioned in the last update just make Corrin feel like some blank ragdoll of a character getting helplessly tossed from major plot point to major plot point that I can't even care about. I've only played a little past this point myself before I dropped the game, cause I was so sick of the song and everything else about Azura screaming "I am the pure distilled crystallized essence of Mary Sue".
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Jun 20, 2022 16:20
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Just wanna give a +1 to Offense Class Azura, it's some funny poo poo. I made her a Kinshi Knight to get Amaterasu on her and she capped Skill and Spd super early. Sadly, unlike Olivia, who has even Str and Mag caps and access to Swordfaire to let her use a Levin Sword, Azura's Magic cap is pretty low and her growth is even lower, so she's stuck with pretty bad ranged options.
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Jun 20, 2022 17:06
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I honestly don’t mind Azura, but that’s more because she’s unintentionally hilarious. She’s also the only character in the game that actually does something. Yeah her actions are dumb, but no one’s smart in this game so. Edit: And yeah, +1 to the problem with the countries. The writing is absolutely atrocious even past that, but I can’t think of how a good writer would even start to work with this beginning setup we have with the countries.
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Jun 21, 2022 22:44
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Well, now we get to the good part™.
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Jun 22, 2022 02:26
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Keldulas posted:Edit: And yeah, +1 to the problem with the countries. The writing is absolutely atrocious even past that, but I can’t think of how a good writer would even start to work with this beginning setup we have with the countries. it's a quite similar plot to Gaiden/Shadows of Valentia, except whoever was leading the project declared 'i know writers who understand subtext and they're all cowards' and made the two countries literally Japanese White Good Place and European Black Bad Place and it's not like SoV's plot is subtle, it just wields melodrama with the slightest tact!
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Jun 22, 2022 04:16
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Shadows of Valencia is a remake of FE2. The only previous plot before that was the Marth one, and neither of them have much nuance.... but they were also literally like NES games. Fates still manages to do worse than both of them. Hell, Fates is the worst story and writing out of all the Fire Emblems period, and Fire Emblem has had some crappy writing in it.
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Jun 22, 2022 05:17
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Cythereal posted:This all gets into what I think is my deepest-set problem with Fates: I just don't like either of these countries. Nohr is so comically evil they may as well be ruled by Cobra Commander, and Hoshido is so disturbingly magical and perfect that I reflexively feel a perverse hatred of the place. Keldulas posted:Edit: And yeah, +1 to the problem with the countries. The writing is absolutely atrocious even past that, but I can’t think of how a good writer would even start to work with this beginning setup we have with the countries. It's not a great setup to be stuck with, no. The only potential negative I can point out about Hoshido so far is the pacification field, which with a few steps in logic, you could come up with ways to twist it for evil. But that's coming up with stuff outside of the presented story- presently it just made people not want to fight each other and Hoshido probably wouldn't use it for evil anyhow. Them potentially trying to manipulate Corndog goes out the window in this update as we see they really aren't lying about anything. ...Meanwhile Nohr has visibly displayed a no mercy policy, frequent acts of espionage, and the whole attacking civilians with Faceless thing. The country setup as-is, is a very weak foundation. I won't say it's impossible to construct something good from it, but it's likely a Sisyphean task. Most of the ways I can think of to fix this game's writing usually involves silver lining for Nohr and some staining of Hoshido's perfect image. One of the only ones that doesn't do that involves some information we'll get soon enough, and I can't say it's an amazing fix, if it isn't even just a sidegrade non-fix. I think if you lightened Nohr's displayed evil factor by a couple notches and then rewrite Hoshido to be similarly evil but less direct about it, you'd have a far more interesting dichotomy. Make them more about manipulation, bribery, fabricating news to feed to the public, and handling "political matters" under the table. They have ninja, they should be putting them to use- they should be the underhanded ones, not Nohr. That "barrier of peace" is just something they managed to get the general, oblivious populace to believe in, supposedly for their peace of mind. Both sides seek to enforce order and stability in their country, but they approach it differently. Now that I think about it, I guess I'm saying to make Mikoto a yakuza boss? Anyways. I never said I was a good writer, just that I like writing. Keldulas posted:Shadows of Valencia is a remake of FE2. The only previous plot before that was the Marth one, and neither of them have much nuance.... but they were also literally like NES games. NES games rarely got particularly nuanced stories, FE2's plot really is just Oppressed Good Side, Puppeted Bad Side, and Evil Dragon Cult. That's the same outline as FE1, although it has more than 2 countries at play. Bifauxnen posted:I feel the same way, plus not liking either of the main characters. Our fun "Corndog" persona at least makes the PC way more tolerable. But all the pacing problems mentioned in the last update just make Corrin feel like some blank ragdoll of a character getting helplessly tossed from major plot point to major plot point that I can't even care about. Corrin's personality is two simple concepts "trust everyone" and "let's all be friends", which stands out poorly against the fact you just did a murder on a dozen dudes twenty seconds ago. They'd be better suited being a non-combatant, but what's a player made unit who doesn't fight in any battles? I guess a healer or a convoy like Merlinus or something, but how much fun is that, really? Corndog really just wants to go back to sleep. I've found getting a read on Azura so far to be rather difficult, but the "too perfect" energy is definitely there. Not even a chapter between those gray waves really is pushing it though. It's very apparent they wanted it to be very cool and memorable, but for that to happen it has to work with the pacing of the story and that's not going to happen with the present lack of it. Quackles posted:Well, now we get to the good part™. And with it presumably comes a revelation of some kind. Just one, not multiple. Must've used up all of our twists in the first 5 chapters.
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Jun 22, 2022 07:06
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Odd Wilson posted:It's not a great setup to be stuck with, no. The only potential negative I can point out about Hoshido so far is the pacification field, which with a few steps in logic, you could come up with ways to twist it for evil. But that's coming up with stuff outside of the presented story- presently it just made people not want to fight each other and Hoshido probably wouldn't use it for evil anyhow. Them potentially trying to manipulate Corndog goes out the window in this update as we see they really aren't lying about anything. This sounds really cool.
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Jun 22, 2022 07:20
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quote:Corndog really just wants to go back to sleep. Truly, a heroine we can believe in
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Jun 22, 2022 12:04
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Odd Wilson posted:They'd be better suited being a non-combatant, but what's a player made unit who doesn't fight in any battles? How quickly we forget Mark, the most memorable and notable character
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Jun 22, 2022 14:40
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Odd Wilson posted:It's not a great setup to be stuck with, no. The only potential negative I can point out about Hoshido so far is the pacification field, which with a few steps in logic, you could come up with ways to twist it for evil. But that's coming up with stuff outside of the presented story- presently it just made people not want to fight each other and Hoshido probably wouldn't use it for evil anyhow. Them potentially trying to manipulate Corndog goes out the window in this update as we see they really aren't lying about anything. This works, although personally I'd have the Barrier of Peace still do what it does now but also have it deter any type of dissension at all. Enemies lose their will to fight, Hoshidan citizens who have issues with how the queen is running things find themselves gradually forgetting those same issues, etc. That way when Corndog/Kirin/Avatar/Yournamehere is told that the barrier pacifies enemies seeking to attack Hoshido it becomes a lie of omission rather than an outright lie. On top of that, maybe have the Avatar be immune to the field due to their more pure dragon blood. Like, maybe Mikoto ends up being a little more insistent that the hero(ine) accept her as their real mother, followed by a brief change in Mikoto's portrait showing a switch from 'normal' to anger/annoyance back to 'normal' when the Avatar persists in being hesitant (and doesn't notice Mikoto's reaction).
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Jun 22, 2022 22:56
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Falconer posted:This works, although personally I'd have the Barrier of Peace still do what it does now but also have it deter any type of dissension at all. Enemies lose their will to fight, Hoshidan citizens who have issues with how the queen is running things find themselves gradually forgetting those same issues, etc. That way when Corndog/Kirin/Avatar/Yournamehere is told that the barrier pacifies enemies seeking to attack Hoshido it becomes a lie of omission rather than an outright lie. I like this approach as well. The detail with Mikoto can easily be construed as her manually putting more effort to try and make the barrier work, or just generally being annoyed that this isn't working out. Or maybe both! Regardless, it'd work as a nice way to show a crack in the initially perfect image Hoshido tries to put forth. A Mikoto that approach things with all smiles until things don't go to plan, was definitely the image I was thinking of. Perhaps Sumeragi was the same, or maybe her methods are different now that she's in control. I was personally hesitant to keep the peace barrier a real thing because it's so strong power-wise. It's also just not explained very well why she has this immense power, although maybe it gets covered in detail again later. Although, your design doesn't have to explain why Nohr isn't actually invading, whic is something the idea I pitched would have to handle; being a band-aid for this is why the barrier seems to exist in the first place. I can presently think of three ways you could run it: 1. Nohr isn't directly at war right now and it's just Garon pushing their buttons with "runaway monsters" via Faceless until Hoshido declares war 2. This threat of invasion is more fabricated than not, and is just so Hoshido can get the populace to be generally united against Nohr in case a real war effort does start (and also makes the job of enemy spies harder) 3. Somehow, Hoshido has been really good at keeping this apparent war at just their borders. Option 3 is just plain weak, and the other two would require further reconstruction of events and plot... although I guess you'd need to do a lot of that already.
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Jun 23, 2022 01:24
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Update 9: Azura Is Not A Tactician (Ch.6- The Path Is Yours/ Into the Ground) Chapter 6: The Path Is Yours ...For the low, low price of an entirely separate game! Each route was sold full price, with Revelation being DLC. Anyway, it's time to finally get to content in this run that isn't the same as every other playthrough of Fates.  Music: Prelude to Disaster(Oh, I've been promised it'll be a disaster, that's for sure.) We open to a view of Xander and Ryoma facing off against each other on a familiar map...  *Corndog and the other Hoshidan royals arrive to the southeast.*   XANDER: Corndog, you're alive! They haven't harmed you, have they? CORNDOG: Xander! I'm fine. But...why are you invading Hoshido?!  XANDER: Father says it's time to show our true strength.  XANDER: Join us, and we'll end this quickly. If we conquer Hoshido here and now, we can avoid unnecessary bloodshed. CORNDOG: Xander...I... I need a minute. RYOMA: Be careful, Corndog. That man is a Nohrian commander! CORNDOG: Ryoma... Xander- Makes a point in favor of Corndog's anti-war nature Ryoma- States information already known  *The Nohrian siblings arrive!*   CAMILLA: Corndog! I was so worried about you. Don't ever wander away from me again!  LEO: I'm glad you're OK, Corndog. You must have the devil's own luck!  ELISE: Yaaay! We got our sister back! I think you're jumping the gun a bit there, Elise. Corndog's still on the Hoshidan side presently.   HINOKA: Nohrian scum! First you kidnap her, now you lie to her?! Corndog is MY sister, not yours!  CAMILLA: You are mistaken. Corndog is my sweet little sister. You may not have her. The overprotective older sisters argue with each other...  RYOMA: Don't be fooled by their words. You belong with your true family in Hoshido!  XANDER: We have loved you and raised you since you were a child. Come home, little princess. We can live as a family once more! RYOMA: Come home to Hoshido, Corndog! XANDER: No, Corndog! Nohr is your home! Guys, can you maybe give us a minute to think this over?  *Ryoma reaches out to our princess.* RYOMA: This way!  *The other Hoshidan siblings run up. Soldiers ready themselves in the background.*  SAKURA: B-Big Sister?  *Our view cuts back to the left where the Nohrian siblings approach.*  ELISE: She's my sister!  XANDER: We're your family.  *The screen cuts diagonally, framing Xander and Ryoma against each other.*  *The screen cuts further to show every sibling, positioned on the opposite side of the screen from their counterpart.* I find it funny when these scenes use gameplay sound effects- this plays the dramatic clash sound that happens on declaring any battle with animations enabled. When Rinkah blackjacked our heroine a few updates ago it played a critical hit sound.  CORNDOG: My family... Corndog finds herself in the void of indecision. I would know, I've been here a lot.  Technically, I could've just skipped to this point, but then you wouldn't have experienced the Anyways, we're going to refuse to choose a side, thus starting the Revelation route.  Not recommended for my first playthrough you say? I think this is probably the best experience of a first playthrough I could ask for. I've seen all I've needed to of the other routes.  Chapter 6 - Into the Ground And now we start the actual Chapter 6.  Music: Thorn in You(This will also be the map track, but it starts playing here.) CORNDOG: I... I won't betray anyone. CORNDOG: I won't fight against the people of Nohr after you cared for me all these years. CORNDOG: You and Camilla, Leo and Elise... We might not be related by blood, but you are family to me. CORNDOG: You've been with me for as long as I can remember. XANDER: Well said, little princess. What ties us together is thicker than blood. I feel like they don't delve into "bloodline be damned, you're family" as much as they could. Well, in ways other than what Camilla does.  RYOMA: What are you saying, Corndog? RYOMA: You would discard your true family and side with those who stand against us? CORNDOG: ...No, I refuse to fight against my Hoshidan siblings, either.  CORNDOG: Ryoma...we might not have spent much time together, but you are my family too. CORNDOG: You, Hinoka, Takumi, Sakura... I don't want to fight with you on this or any other battlefield. RYOMA: We feel the same, Corndog.  CORNDOG: ...But I can't side with either of you against the other. CORNDOG: I cannot betray any of my family. XANDER: Corndog, what are you... RYOMA: ...going to do, then? CORNDOG: I'm so sorry, both of you. Please, set your swords aside! I'm sure a peaceful solution exists. If we could just— I wonder why they made Xander and Ryoma finish each other's sentence there, other than to highlight how similar they are. If they're going to be doing that, we might be able to pair them together later.  *Xander flourishes his sword and readies his steed.* XANDER: I've heard enough! XANDER: Corndog, I can see what you're trying to accomplish here. XANDER: As your older brother, however, it is my duty to teach you the truth... RYOMA: Not while I still stand... Corndog is finally back with her family— I will not let you take her again! *He draws his blade.* CORNDOG: No, wait! Xander! Ryoma!  XANDER: Don't think for a moment that I will let you take Corndog without a fight. XANDER: It seems only right to cross swords with my opposing equal. As the heirs of our respective families, why don't we settle this here and now? RYOMA: Prepare yourself, then. I will defeat you in defense of my kingdom and my sister! CORNDOG: Please, both of you, stop! We can still talk this out inste—!  XANDER: HAAAA!  RYOMA: YAAAAA! They haven't actually hit each other yet, they're just making battle cries while trying to out-pose each other.  CORNDOG: Gah, it's no use! They just won't listen to me... CORNDOG: I'll have to step in if I want to stop them! How are we going to step in? Well, it's not a very self-preservational plan, that's for sure...  CORNDOG: We'll have to get their attention if we want to stop them from fighting... AZURA: I have an idea... Why don't we attack the groups closest to us? If we defeat the leaders, Ryoma and Xander can't possibly ignore us. Luckily, Azura delivers the plan so we can blame it on her if everything goes poorly. Said plan is declare war by action on both sides, because there's no way in hell this will count as a declaration of neutrality. I'm sure we won't be crushed under the might of both countries!  *Just then, a welcome sight runs in from the north!*   FELICIA: Phew! I made it in time. Lady Corndog, I'm so glad you're safe! CORNDOG: Felicia! What are you doing here?!  FELICIA: That's a fine greeting! And here I was panicking after we got separated. I spent all my time trying to figure out where you went!  FELICIA: It took a while, but I've finally caught up with you. I don't know what's going on, but you can count on me to help! CORNDOG: Thank you. I'm grateful to have you here. I'm just glad to see you didn't fall in to the giant chasm of despair too. And also to have a third unit, because Azura's not gonna cut it on her own. I honestly want to know what she's been doing the last few days. Has she just been going full survival mode or something?   FELICIA: So...who exactly are we fighting? FELICIA: Everyone seems really worked up, but they don't look like they're our allies... CORNDOG: The short version is... we're up against the Hoshidan army and the Nohrian army right now. I've chosen not to side with either of them. FELICIA: You can't be serious! Two armies?! What have you gotten yourself into, milady? FELICIA: ...I suppose it doesn't matter. Your enemies are my enemies. I'll help you as best I can! Your charge vanishes without a trace for a few days, during which you brave the wilderness in hostile territory only to find that they are planning on angering the only two countries in the world. Felicia, do you get paid enough for this?  Victory - Defeat both bosses within 5 turns Battle Music: Thorn in You (Roar)(The normal track was already linked above.) It's not a rout map! Amazing. The time limit is pretty inconsequential here, but I imagine it's worse on higher difficulties. All in all, this is a pretty simple map for us, not a lot to go deep into on. Next map, sorta maybe? It'll get more complicated for sure.  Our units are up here on this little northern island. All we have is Corndog, Azura, and Felicia, the latter of whom has the same stats as when we last saw her. Felicia's staff has been refilled for us, and at some point Azura picked up a Bronze Lance in place of the naginata she had last map. It's basically the same, just without the stat modifiers of a Hoshidan weapon.  To the southeast, across a bridge is an Oni Savage, a Spear Fighter, and a Samurai for the Hoshidan units. Their stats aren't amazing, just level 5 generic units, and we only have to kill the Samurai to complete the conditions for that side.  The Nohrians are less inventive, and have just sent three Wyvern Riders at us. Since they can fly, they'll reach us first.  Our sleepy princess' new non-gangly sword, Yato, is 8 Mt and 85 Hit, alongside a +1 SPD but -1 DEF and RES. It will delete enemies even harder than our last sword with a funny name.  The Dragonstone bears an impressive 14 Mt, but uses our poor MAG stat instead for damage. It also bestows -3 SKL, -2 SPD, +4 DEF, +3 RES, +10 Dodge and cannot double enemies. It also only has 1 range. It's a very strangely designed tanking/weakening tool, I guess.  Our team groups beside Corndog as she positions to level the charge of the incoming Wyvern Riders and get them downed quickly.   One enemy flying turned into an enemy dying.  We've still got a turn before the Hoshidans reach us, so let's finish removing the flyers from the equation.  Some daggers debuff the other non-boss Wyvern Rider, and Azura commits a whole extra 1 damage. I'm not complaining, it gets her combat EXP credit.   One dance later and Azura gets a level for HP, STR, and SKL. HP is nice to see!  AZURA: Look me in the eyes! It's an odd battle cry, but in reality getting your opponent to take their eyes off your weapon makes a hit less likely to be dodged or parried. Such a tactic probably wouldn't work against a very experienced fighter though. Maybe one of those cardboard cutout jpeg soldiers in the distance could help test this.  The final Wyvern Rider stopped just outside of Corndog's range this turn, and waiting over here would be fruitless as every enemy is going for Azura first if at all possible. Following this logic, I position Corndog to dice up the incoming Savage.  He has been diced.  Corndog gets the true lord level of SPD and LCK in response. C'mon girl, you got better growths than this.   As predicted, the last Wyvern goes for Azura and lands a nice 69% chance hit. Luckily, she can take at least 1 hit as she isn't a dancer joining when promoted units are starting to show.  Felicia cleans up. Despite this guy being no tougher than the generics who came with him, he's worth about half a level. Felicia does level from this.   FELICIA: I can do better! ...She gets MAG. That's it. If this is very disappointing to you, have a rare screenshot:  JPEG Lancer, caught close up in the act of... something!  She does learn Live to Serve though, as she's level 5 and Maid is a promoted class. This makes it to where she's healed for however much she heals another unit- a pretty useful skill, honestly! It'll be nice to keep her on the front lines and not have to worry about her needing to heal herself.   XANDER: What? Corndog has defeated my forward commander? We can't afford to be caught between her forces and the Hoshidans... XANDER: Stop the assault! All units, await my command! That level 5 unit was your forward commander? Wow, Bad Dad really didn't give you much to pull this off with did he? At least you're looking out for Corndog's sake, I guess. Either that or he's rightfully intimidated by Felicia's infinite supply of kitchen knives.   Then Azura moves out of danger and dances Felicia so that she can return a heal.  Corndog tanks as usual, and off we go to the enemy round again.  We spare the other generic by pure mercy in that the Sam boss can't stand the Corndog/Felicia tag team dream team.  That is stage complete! There's some dialogue we didn't see: On Defeat Hoshidan Boss: RYOMA: Corndog has defeated my forward commander?! What is she up to? Does she really intend to fight against us?  RYOMA: ...We can't handle fighting on two fronts. Everyone! Hold position! Similar to Xander, Ryoma's got a reaction. On Time Out: AZURA: It seems we are out of time. You did all you could, Corndog. And that'd be a game over. Now, those aren't very interesting, but what is more unusual is that every sibling has unique battle and death lines for this map despite the fact you'd have to go so far out of your way to reach any of them. They're unique to Revelation as well, I checked them against the lines that also exist for Birthright and Conquest... although some are basically the same. I think it's the perfect way to wrap up this update- a lot goes down for next time, and my hands are getting tired. ---------------------------------------------------- *XANDER* -Battle Against Any XANDER: Fool. You've made a terrible mistake opposing me! -Corndog Engages XANDER: So, it's come to this... I will still forgive you if you repent now and return with us to Nohr. CORNDOG: No... I can't. I've made my decision. I will not side with anyone. XANDER: I see... Then you leave me no choice but to take you back by force. CORNDOG: Xander! -On Death XANDER: It seems I've underestimated you. I have no choice but to retreat... Corndog... You'll see a common theme in "we'll bring you back by force" for a lot of them. ---------------------- *CAMILLA* -Battle Against Any CAMILLA: No one can steal Corndog away from me! Not even you... -Corndog Engages  CAMILLA: Ah, Corndog... Why won't you come home with us? This is all some big misunderstanding. You wouldn't do this to me, would you? CORNDOG: I'm sorry, Camilla... I... I can't change course now... CAMILLA: Corndog, can't you see how much it hurts me for you to behave this way? -On Death CAMILLA: I won't let this keep me away... Corndog... She's planning on haunting us if this happens  ---------------------- *LEO* -Battle Against Any  LEO: No enemy of mine will receive mercy... If you attack me, you will die. -Corndog Engages  LEO: Geesh... What are you doing, Sister? There's still time to change your mind. I'll help smooth this over with Father. Please, return to us. CORNDOG: Leo... CORNDOG: I'm so sorry. I... I've made up my mind. I can't go back.  LEO: I can't believe you're this cruel. LEO: Very well... I'll have to knock some sense back into you! -On Death  LEO: Gah, I thought you were weaker... How could I miscalculate that... "I... forgot to carry the two..."  ---------------------- *ELISE* -Battle Against Any  ELISE: Do we really have to fight? -Corndog Engages ELISE: I hate this, Sister! I hate everything about this! Why do we have to fight each other? CORNDOG: I'm so sorry, Elise... I don't want to fight you either... I can't see any other way!  ELISE: I don't believe you! -On Death ELISE: I never thought... this would happen... When you consider that Elise is a Troubadour and could not attack you if you tried, to get these messages you'd have to go out of way to attack your unarmed younger sister. So to answer her first question: no, this is really unnecessary. ---------------------- *RYOMA* -Battle Against Any RYOMA: Get out of my way! I need to settle things with Nohr. -Corndog Engages RYOMA: Corndog... Are you sure you won't return with us to Hoshido? You risk getting yourself killed by taking this neutral position! CORNDOG: That could very well be true... But I've made my choice—there's no turning back now! RYOMA: I won't give up on you, Corndog! If it means I have to drag you back, kicking and screaming, then so be it! CORNDOG: Ryoma! -On Death RYOMA: Ugh... I'll have to retreat for now... Corndog... I still argue this is not a "neutral position" in the slightest. Attacking both countries is about as aggressive as you can get. ---------------------- *HINOKA* -Battle Against Any HINOKA: Corndog will return to Hoshido. Otherwise, why have I been fighting?! -Corndog Engages HINOKA: This can't be true! Are you sure you won't return with us? This is all a ruse, right? We're family. You can't turn your back on your family! CORNDOG: I know... But that's exactly why I can't side with you either, Sister.  HINOKA: Corndog! -On Death HINOKA: This can't be. Not after everything I've fought for! This pretty much checks out with what we know about Hinoka. Nothing to really say here. ---------------------- *TAKUMI* -Battle Against Any TAKUMI: I will defeat the Nohrian army. I won't hold back if you get in my way. -Corndog Engages TAKUMI: Hmph... I knew there was something not quite right about you. From the moment we met, I suspected you couldn't be trusted. CORNDOG: Takumi... TAKUMI: Ryoma and the others were fools. Trusting someone connected to Nohr is only going to lead to heartbreak. TAKUMI: I'm different from them, though. They still think you can turn back. I have no problem taking you out— right here, right now. -On Death TAKUMI: Gah! You've got skill, to be sure. I can't afford to lose here... Takumi was always ready to cap your rear end, this was just the perfect opportunity. ---------------------- *SAKURA* -Battle Against Any SAKURA: I-I don't care what happens to me... Just please leave my friends and family alone! -Corndog Engages SAKURA: Sister! D-did you come to fight me? What did we do to you to make you so upset with us?! CORNDOG: I'm so sorry, Sakura... You did nothing wrong. I just need you to let me follow the path I've chosen.  SAKURA: No, there must be another way! Corndog! -On Death SAKURA: Why... I don't understand... Similarly to Elise, there is zero reason to attack Sakura (EXP aside). This one's kinda unnerving. Anyways, that was the potentials for Corndog to stab her siblings for neutrality, next time we see the aftermath of this excellent idea. Not a lot to this one, but next chapter is when we'll finally start having prolonged battles and when I can start borrowing the Preparation -> Battle -> Result update style. The chapter title will make sense next update, but believe me when I say this entire combat map was unnecessary and you could've removed it with no consequence. I'll at least give it credit in that it did stop the siblings from fighting, but, uhhhh this won't be goin down good, chief Left 4 Bread fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 16:30
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And here we see what I feel is another weakness of the branching plot: the game wants it to be 'blood family vs adopted family' except I don't think the player is given enough time with any of these characters to get particularly invested in either. Especially not with how cartoonishly evil Nohr is.
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Jun 26, 2022 16:45
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This map is much worse on higher difficulties - the Nohrian generics get replaced with grounded units who can't cross the river, so you have to waste your precious turns having Corrin wade through it. You can't go around on account of the time limit and also Ryoma absolutely destroying you if you get too close. The gameplay of this map is a little silly but I guess it's got to be a map somehow. Maybe it would have been more interesting as an escape map? It definitely would have benefitted from 3 Houses's enemy armies fighting one another system anyway.
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Jun 26, 2022 17:29
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I kind of like them finishing each other's sentences there because I read it as dumbfounded confusion. "But.... then when do we stab each other?"
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Jun 26, 2022 19:01
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here we go here we go here we go 
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Jun 26, 2022 21:32
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As a heads-up, you doubled the amount of stat changes the Yato (and all katanas) give you. It's just +1 Spd and -1 Def/Res. (Unless Gay Fates changed that for some reason...??)
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Jun 26, 2022 23:38
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Cythereal posted:And here we see what I feel is another weakness of the branching plot: the game wants it to be 'blood family vs adopted family' except I don't think the player is given enough time with any of these characters to get particularly invested in either. Especially not with how cartoonishly evil Nohr is. 5 chapters really isn't enough to establish much connection, yeah. It's too short for all the plot points they're trying to introduce and it's too short to give the player balanced reasons to pick a side. It requires a good setup to pull off as both sides are mutually exclusive, unlike say, Sacred Stone's route split. I guess a better comparison is 3H, and from what I've seen of it, they just cut their losses and put the decision up front. Maybe not the most elegant solution, but at least it keeps the time from new game to new route content pretty short. Any fixes I can try to conjure up for Fates' story so far usually involves expanding this section some. I'm sure there's filler chapters we can poach room from. midnight lasagna posted:This map is much worse on higher difficulties - the Nohrian generics get replaced with grounded units who can't cross the river, so you have to waste your precious turns having Corrin wade through it. You can't go around on account of the time limit and also Ryoma absolutely destroying you if you get too close. Them not being fliers changes a lot, yeah. In the ending events of this chapter both sides predictably declare war on Corndog and it was already my plan to have that be pushed to happen as soon as you make the decision to join neither side. Changing this map to be escaping them instead would be a great fit here as we already end up doing that in the cutscene anyways.. Sometimes I forget Escape is a victory condition in some FEs, I just see rout and defeat boss so much. FoolyCharged posted:I kind of like them finishing each other's sentences there because I read it as dumbfounded confusion. "But.... then when do we stab each other?" That is a way to read it- it kinda flew over my head a bit, I guess. LiefKatano posted:As a heads-up, you doubled the amount of stat changes the Yato (and all katanas) give you. It's just +1 Spd and -1 Def/Res. (Unless Gay Fates changed that for some reason...??) Ah, whoops. I'll fix that. I just thought it was +2 for some reason. I don't claim to be an expert
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Jun 27, 2022 00:40
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Odd Wilson posted:
 This first map is already pretty silly with how everyone instantly reacts in the same "Aaaah I didn't hear anything you just said and will now attack you!!" way. I get what they're going for, but it didn't really land.
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Jun 27, 2022 02:00
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Them not flying to you and the fact that Ryoma will gladly destroy you if you wander into his range. I honestly didn't mind the Lunatic version of the map because while the logic of the map is weird, it's also a really small puzzle map that gives you most of the necessary information from the start. So iteration times of figuring it out are pretty short, and it's more interesting than a generic map. My solution was to have Corrin and Felicia go right immediately to kill the samurai leader, and then run left quickly to join Azura in crossing the river to provoke the other ones. Story-wise, the justification for running out of time on the map is utterly stupid and it shouldn't really be a game-over, but it's still one of the smallest sins of the Revelations story writing.
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Jun 27, 2022 05:22
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What I don't get is why not Japan would instantly assume corndog would side with them just because they share parents (and keep creepily referring to her as 'sister'). She doesn't even know them!!!
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Jun 27, 2022 15:37
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:What I don't get is why not Japan would instantly assume corndog would side with them just because they share parents (and keep creepily referring to her as 'sister'). She doesn't even know them!!! This 100%. If they played up "they might be your family but Nohr as a whole is, y'know, comically evil" then it might make more sense but as is it feels like they're leaning way too hard on "we're your blood family! you're supposed to be with us!!".
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Jun 27, 2022 18:50
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LiefKatano posted:This 100%. Personally I wonder if there were any people part of adopted families (as parents or children) in the testing groups. I wouldn't be surprised either way, just for different reasons.
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Jun 27, 2022 18:53
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The best Chapter 6 line is in Conquest's version when you attack Sakura, and Corrin says "Sorry, but you're just gonna have to take a nap for me..." It's so callous, I'm sad it's not in Rev.
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Jun 28, 2022 04:25
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"We all hate Aunt Martha, but she's FAMILY!" is a common thing. Blood is thicker than water and all that stuff. I kind of like the idea of Corndog being faced with the choice between the people she grew up with and thought of as family and her birth family as a plot point. Unfortunately, what we're getting here is a choice between the people she grew up with and thought of as family (but it's okay to marry them) who are from the evil kingdom of evilness, and her birth family (but it's okay to marry them) who just popped into her life yesterday and insist they belong together because of family bonds she has no memory off and are from the good kingdom of goodness. Like many things, this would have improved by making Nohr less comically evil and Hoshido less pristinely good. The Hoshidans are already pushing really hard on the "We are your one true family" angle, double down on that to the point where it becomes creepy, especially from Corndog's mother. Then the Nohr kids show up, not to invade but to rescue their sister against their father's will (because what they're doing is still an invasion). So Corndog is forced to choose quickly to avoid an international incident.
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Jun 28, 2022 07:46
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You know, I actually remember having a discussion in a forum just like this prior to the original release of Birthright and Conquest. Someone made a thread asking who people would side with, and they said they'd pick Nohr, claiming they couldn't think of a single reason people wouldn't pick them. So I replied saying something like "Uh, they're pretty heavily implying Nohr is a villainous conquering empire, isn't that a good reason to oppose them?" And the person was like "Oh, but I was raised to always put family first." (I think they were coming from the perspective that Nohr raised you, and thus you owe them your loyalty)
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Jun 28, 2022 08:35
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Cloacamazing! posted:"We all hate Aunt Martha, but she's FAMILY!" is a common thing. Blood is thicker than water and all that stuff. One of my favourite fun facts is that this phrase, like "the exception that proves the rule", means the opposite of what people think it means in the modern day. The original quote is that "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" - as in, the oaths you swear (hypothetically in blood) are worth more than who gave birth to you. It's exactly the sort of line that I could see Xander and Ryoma arguing over, funnily enough.
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Jun 28, 2022 13:45
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LJN92 posted:Someone made a thread asking who people would side with, and they said they'd pick Nohr, claiming they couldn't think of a single reason people wouldn't pick them. If they didn't have Jakob and Felicia come with you in all paths, I suspect more people would have chosen Nohr to be able to recruit butlers/maids. 
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Jun 28, 2022 17:51
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