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Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Major Spag posted:

Heresy takes many forms. All of which need to be bonked.

My take on Blood Angel Inductii Despoilers.




Hell yeah. Your BA are always great and you're always making progress on something. Hopefully this unit lets you cut loose a little. The psycho cannibal angle is a fun one even if their rules aren't great.



JcDent posted:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/07/heresy-thursday-the-most-exemplary-battles-of-all-come-to-print/

Boo!
Five updated examplary battles, one new one, rules for Snakegrim and particularly hosed-up EC.

Not the greatest book or precedent
I'm actually pretty excited about these. It'll be nice to get these rules in print and this should give them an opportunity to expand on the fluff a bit with color panels, maps, etc. I am totally down for the painting/converting sections too.

My only hope is that DA get something a bit more exciting than inner circle knights painted white. :geno: I want to convert.

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Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Improbable Lobster posted:

I do wonder if they other Exemplary Battles will be collected too. I've wanted Morlock Terminators since the Fulgrim novel came out and it's nice that they finally got some rules acknowledgement with that one battle.
I feel like it's pretty much guaranteed at this point. This book is even labeled as Volume One. It'll be interesting to see what else they add though if this is anything to go by. We're getting a new Salamanders unit along with all of the Emperor's Children stuff.




ijyt posted:

Rules in books is the only way they're legal. PDF's? Online articles? Nonsense.
:hmmyes:

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

SkyeAuroline posted:

Anyone else getting games in recently?
Some other goons and I were actually just at the NOVA Open over Labor Day weekend. I got in three centurion games at 1500, two ZM games, and three Titanicus games at 2000. Plus some Warcry on the side. The event is pretty well run and there are a ton of options for 30k, even including weird offshoots like a custom skirmish game, Battlefleet Heresy, and 28mm Titanicus. My one complaint is that whoever was running the centurion and ZM events really liked their wacky scenarios and they didn't feel playtested. Hopefully they take some feedback on that. Still, a great event and I really recommend it for anyone in the area or who can make the trip. The 30k crowd is very chill and folks hang out in the hall every night for pick up games or just to bullshit. I'm definitely looking forward to next year with the addition of Legions Imperialis. I already have all the knights and titans I'd need so it'll be all about tiny Dark Angels.

NOVA has shifted to a new venue (and I think management?) and that brought some changes to the event as a whole. There used to be a central NOVA charity lounge everyone would hang out at, but that was gone. I really missed it and I think everyone else did too. It made meeting up with other groups less likely which took some of the energy away. Not a deal breaker by any means, but something I hope they change next year.



There is a pretty active local community where I live, but I haven't been able to engage with it much. I moved to Atlanta less than a year ago for work so it took some time before I was ready to look into things. Unfortunately, they tend to meet on Sundays and I've been working a lot of weekends. I went to a game day back in like late April and then never returned. The project I'm on should be calming down soon so I'll give it another shot.

And other than that, I've got LVO to prep for. :shepface:

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
I love this beefy boy and will be de-traitorizing him. The loyalist champion was fine, but this is more my speed.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
The space wolf range has been cursed since its launch with book 7. Upside down bolters, banana fur, Fat Bastard, etc., etc. The deathsworn are great though.


The awuuuuu wolf hats were dumb, but also really funny and they should have kept them around.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
That conversion would work great for Iron Hands or Iron Warriors. Or maybe Salamanders.


I think you've got the shoulders on backwards though. If that's intended, just ignore me.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Rasler posted:

As for paint scheme, I'm going with blackshields so that I can make my own scheme. I have already started to paint a HH land raider up in what I think the final scheme will end up being:

https://imgur.com/a/mXXaQ1p

https://imgur.com/a/tDM1V3C
Hell yeah. Always happy to see blackshields. Anything goes with them and that scheme will look great across a force.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
It is always summer in England.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
:getin:

I'm gonna get the New Box. And the Book.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Hell yeah. I know some folks who have been waiting for these rules since 2.0 launched. Nice to finally have them and it'll definitely get some people hobbying again. Demon armies are such a great opportunity for conversions and proxies and no two armies look alike. Excited to see what comes out of this.



That said, having read the rules, this is an army with a few problems. The Heavy Support slot is basically dead space. Just trash. Additionally, while I understand why the customization of the old list was stripped back I think they went a little too far with it. Most units have one or two options and some have none. It was all a little too much before, but this list has the opposite problem. That said, the big guys still have some nice options available and will see a variety of builds and the dominions will add a bit of flavor to the lesser demons. It would've been nice to be able to mix those, but that would've been impossible for an opponent to track. It's better this way and the bonuses are generally pretty solid across the board. Lists will probably fill out their HQ and elite slots as much as they can. I think demon lists might wind up a bit samey as a result, but we'll see.


All in all, while I think the militia list turned out better, this is a decent base for the writers to tweak and build off of. I'm just speculating here, but if the new exemplary battles book is anything to go off of then the writers will revisit these lists in the future as they get them into print. It sucks for demon and militia players to be stuck with beta rules for a while though. As a Dark Angels player, I have an idea of what that's like. :v: I'm happy they're trying stuff out and if this leads to tighter rules in the future then it's all good.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
I love that they went to this little bit of effort. I like heavy support guys in mkIII so this is targeted directly at me. They'll also be nice bits to have for when you want to bulk up a character or something.


I think I want to build a plasma cannon or volkite culverin unit. :pcgaming:

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Box :getin:

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

moths posted:

I'm trying to jam some not-Daemonettes in my list, and it looks like lesser Daemons don't exist in the Bound Ruinstorm so I need to use an Esoterist and the Regular Ruinstorm because Malefic Supplicant is just for Bound and

This feels like a long way to go just for some flavor.

Unfortunately, the bound demon list is kind of a weird placeholder from before the demons list was finalized. They updated it with a slight wording change when the full list dropped, but there are still strange disconnects like the brutes having worse WS and different weapons. Until the bound list gets a real update I'd just use the ruinstorm demons. They deliberately made demons their own weird thing and locked them out of the normal allies system. It's annoying, but esoterists are cool so they're not a terrible option. Go for it. Make some brutes too.


Alternatively, and I know this isn't the best solution and won't work everywhere, but maybe talk to your friends and see if they'd mind if you just swap a few words around and run the ruinstorm list as bound demons. Or just cheat.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
There's also this bit of Adrian Smith art from one of the earlier black books


The new armor is definitely taking some design cues from this, such as the shape of the shin plates.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Bad Decision Dino posted:

Posting a small batrep of my and my opponents third game of Heresy, after doing two 500 pts games last time we played. We're both still trying to build our stuff when we get the chance, let alone paint the models and the board.
That said, the best way to learn is to play more games, so off we went, into the Zone Mortalis.

We played a game of 750 points Zone Mortalis, featuring my opponents loyalist Mechanicum against my traitor Sons of Horus.
Hell yeah. How'd you like Zone Mortalis? It's my favorite way to play and the Siege of Cthonia book shook things up. I'm really happy with it overall, but it's definitely a little more complicated than it used to be. I was skeptical about the jump to 1500 as I was used to 1000 back in 1.0, but it works out pretty well with RP acting as a limiting factor. The ZM reactions also work better for the smaller scale. The regular 30k reactions are really powerful in smaller games and the ZM ones help mitigate that while also being thematic.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
The legion lists are overall pretty well balanced as everyone is pulling from the same pool of units and even the legion unique units are variations on existing statlines/wargear/whatever. Unfortunately, dreadnoughts are kind of the exception. Contemptors in particular are just a little too good. It's a combination of being tough, fast, and having access to a variety of great weapons. Just be aware of that going into things, but you should still feel comfortable taking them.

Don't feel bad about wanting to run dreadnoughts. Contemptors are kind of the problem children of the game right now, but leviathans, deredeos, and regular boxdreads are good alternatives. While they're still pretty powerful, they don't have the speed of the contemptor. Unless you're running Fury of the Ancients, a rite of war that gives you a contemptor warlord and up to six scoring contemptors among other things, don't feel bad about taking dreadnoughts. If it proves to be a problem, just pull your punches a little and tone things down. The 30k community is largely self-correcting and you'll get a feel for things as you get games in.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
The stormseer's great. I can't help but wonder if this means the other legion-specific consuls (DA paladin, EC phoenix warden, etc.) will get models. I'm pretty well covered on idiots with large swords, but I'll always take another.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/18/world-championships-preview-mkvi-assault-marines-rocket-into-the-age-of-darkness/


The new assault marines look great with paint on them. The kit seems pretty solid too. Even comes with 10 combat shields.

The one thing I'm iffy on is that it seems like the kit won't come with regular power weapons. You'll have to source them from elsewhere for the unit. That will be less of an issue after we get that melee weapon sprue that's coming in spring 2024.

I get it though. They had to make space somewhere and the combat shields are really cool and don't exist outside of weird one-offs. You can get power weapons from anywhere.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Crazy Ferret posted:

My group of friends put together a truly massive 30k game. A massive 30k versus 30k game with everything from massive Titans to the humble Guard troopers seeing action. Please enjoy the pictures since this was an epic game and showcases some of my friends incredible work. Please ignore the background decor as our rental house was furnished by insane facebook posts we think.

So they approach...



I brought out my humble Guard army that I play in 40k since my own Dark Angels are far from painted. I used the The Imperialis Militia to translate my armored Cadian guard into an industrial stronghold, warrior elite milita army. A lot of this was trying to find uses for what I already had painted. I do enjoy that in a game involving Perturabo, Ka'Bandha, and Horus being on the table, my warlord is a mounted Merchant Princeling marching with his "lifeguard" squad.




I still had to cheat a bit as my Shadowsword, Basilisk, and Avenger Strike Fighter are only available to the Space Marine Legions. I guess those weapons had not made their way out to the local militia units yet. I took them anyway since it was an Apocalypse game and that was the spirit of the game. Still, it did not matter. My 4000 points were a tiny part of the massive battle that would take place. Just the scale of this was insane.





Horus charged headfirst into what would become known as "Spartan Alley".


Perturabo showed up with his custom Shadowsword but spent the game running around with his robot pals wrecking everything that he came into contact with.


Demons of the Ruinstorm burst through the gate and bullied pretty much everything all game. They are very fast on the table, and really put us back. Looked epic as hell though.


Warhammer 30k is nothing if not glorious piles of marines. Just mobs of power armor vibrating against each other for turns at at time.


It is worth to remembering how much of this is just a giant pile of tanks as well.


I remember looking up from my various tanks getting nuked by stray shots from the titans to see what could only be described as the "Madness Pile." This features Alpharius and friends meeting a pile of Custodes.


It was a great, if exhausting game. We set up the table and armies the day before, but it was still an all day affair. We joke that you play Apocalypse once a year to remind yourself why you only do this once a year. Enjoy a final shot of how a good riff on a Titan's owner resulted in a stray Doomday/Apocalypse cannon annihilating some Sentinels and a Russ.


Quoting for the new page because this poo poo's great. Love seeing huge battles like this where (almost) everything's painted. They represent a ton of effort from everyone involved.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Bullbar posted:

I was busy for three hours and my local store put up the Legions Imperialis preorders and they sold out in that time. I mean I just got it from elsewhere, and apparently they only got 7 copies, so not a huge deal.
Yeah, it sold out insanely fast. I tried to buy it from the GW site and stuff got ripped out of my cart as it sold out. I was in the middle of trying to check out. I know it's been said many times, but the new site sucks rear end.

I wound up getting stuff off of ebay instead. I've never gone that route for pre-orders so we'll see how it goes. I got enough to form a solid base to build off of and no more than that. We know more stuff is coming and, thankfully, I already have a full Legio Solaria force ready to go from AT. I'm excited to try out some schemes. I want something efficient that also looks reasonably close to my 28mm army. Enough that I can say they represent the same force at different scales.





moths posted:

My buddy and I figured out why his Sons of Horus were underperforming: he had been consistently using rhinos to move his melee troops around.

The rhino's lack of an assault ramp meant I always got a full turn of shooting before and a chance to charge them on my own terms.

Now that this is clear, I look forward to never winning another game against him.
Land raiders aren't too bad to deal with as long as you've got some lascannons or melta in your list. They're also expensive so they won't be able to swamp the board in AV14. They're decent anti-tank in their own right though so be prepared for that. A kitted out spartan will be more difficult, but that's going to be very much a singular, obvious threat. Hard to fit much else unless you're playing at 3k.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
There are some legitimately great squads in this article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/29/assault-marines-come-screaming-in-from-the-horus-heresy-studio/


Big fan of these guys.

I'm a sucker for checkers and heraldry. Why yes, I do play Dark Angels.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

smug jeebus posted:

Those are really great looking squads. Are people taking combat shields? They seem kind of questionable and I already wasted 40 points sticking chain bayonets on my tacticals.

I keep going back and forth on combat shields. They're only a 2 point/model upgrade and I think that a large unit will benefit from them especially when combined with an apothecary. That's a lot of extra points though. We're talking 100 points in durability at that point. If I had to pick between the two options I'd take the apothecary. However, the shields do look really good and they're a great opportunity for individual heraldry. And 40 points isn't that much in 2k+...

:shepface:

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/30/heresy-thursday-the-dark-emissary-brings-the-warmasters-unrelenting-gaze/



We've got another consul so it looks like they're going to run through the unique ones as well as some iconic ones like the Thousand Sons librarian. I don't play SoH so I had to look this guy's rules up. He's meant to lead an allied detachment and would work very well in a militia or solar aux army. Great, but definitely niche.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Yeah, I think there's a really good chance that a refreshed mkIV kit is the next major release. I'm a little disappointed in that just because I'd rather see mkII or mkV, but I'm certainly not upset about it. I just already have a mkIV core to my army and I don't really need more. Maybe I go insane and replace my old tacticals.





GhastlyBizness posted:

Yeah he’s a niche character but tbh those ‘embedded’ officers always seemed to have a lot of fun narrative possibility. SoH overseers, Word Bearer missionaries, Space Wolf watch packs, Imperial Fist adjutants, all slowly pissing off the legion they were dispatched to hang out with.
The emissary is a fantastic narrative option and something you could build a really cool army around. He's not great in melee (his weapon kind of sucks), but the leadership buffs he brings are very strong. This guy is absolutely meant to be at the heart of a traitor horde. It's that special mix of gameplay and narrative that I love about 30k.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
I don't understand their resistance to adding skitarii to the game. I understand they are trying to differentiate the two settings a bit and this is a way to show the progression/regression of the mechanicum/mechanicus. They can leave out stuff like the cowboys or winged guys if they don't feel like they fit what they're going for in 30k, that's fine. I just don't see a reason the more basic stuff like the actual skitarii or sicarians can't be included in the mechanicum list. They're in some of the BL books already. They'd make starting a 30k army much easier if potential players didn't immediately have to get resin.



Genuinely, I think skitarii and a lot of the stuff from the 40k admech list would fulfill useful roles in the 30k list. There are definitely holes to fill there. Like decent infantry who can actually hold an objective and fight.

Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 3, 2023

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
GW just dropped a big bunch of 30k FAQs:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/05/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-faqs-and-errata-for-age-of-darkness-publications/

Highlights include clarifications on how exactly units in reserve work when they arrive on the table, armigers interacting with haywire and other anti-vehicle rules properly, and fulmentarus terminators getting nerfed into the loving ground.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Beerdeer posted:

The UM groups are looking their loving minds

:sickos:

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Alpha Legion Saboteur
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/07/heresy-thursday-hoodwink-your-foes-with-the-alpha-legion-saboteur/


This guy's great, just loaded down with gear. He's also in customized mkV armor which is a nice change-up.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
I picked up a box of the new assault marines to convert into three dark angel enigmatus units. They've always been on my radar since book IX dropped, but their points decrease in the latest round of updates got me thinking. I could buy one box and convert all I'd ever need. I just need to source a few things. I have all the dark angel bits and swords in the world, but does anyone know of a good source for needle pistols? Preferably plastic though a third party option is fine too. The only one I can find from GW is on the GSC primus model and I'm not sourcing 9 of those just for their pistols. I'm also interested in alternate jump packs, but I think people will need some time to design some that are compatible with the assault marine kit.

[Edit: I just remembered the Escher range is full of needle weapons.]

These guys are a weird-rear end little unit. They're a holdover from 1.0 and wound up in the legacies pdf alongside the Excindio. They come in groups of three and can't be increased any further, but their stats are crazy with WS5, W2, A3, and even I5. 3+ save though and no invulnerable. They can deep strike or outflank and the PLASMA ROCKETS they've strapped to their backs give them a 4+ shrouded save on the turn they arrive from reserve from all the smoke they put out. Oh, and they can super charge their swords once per game to rend on a 3+. No frag grenades though.

Seriously, what a bunch of loving weirdos.

Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Dec 17, 2023

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Winter is like December through February. There's still time to fall within that window.


I figured the army would be solar aux and I think that's pretty much guaranteed now after the Legions Imperialis launch. However, I was worried they'd do something weird like keep the infantry resin and only put out plastic tanks. I really hope I'm wrong on that one. It would be an odd way to go and would kill enthusiasm pretty quickly.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
The main reason I dreamt up the idea of the infantry staying resin is the level of detail on the solar aux models. I mean, their armor features multiple flanges and every individual stud and nut is modeled. It's a big part of their look for me. I'm concerned that injection molding might carry certain limitations that would see those details sacrificed. But we'll see. If they can faithfully reproduce these models in plastic, fantastic. If they have to make a few small changes to make them work, fair enough. I just don't want a scenario where the resin and plastic models diverge too much.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Mr Teatime posted:

Rules question, any sons of Horus can exchange their power weapon for a Carsoran axe/Tabar and Justaerin come stock with a Carsoran axe and can replace them with power weapons. Are you able to go Carsoran axe>power weapon>Carsoran Tabar? Seems a bit odd if so because why the heck would you take the stock axe if you can swap to the Tabar for free.

The simple answer is that the tabar didn't exist when the 2.0 index was written. Now that it's here though you can totally swap to one using that chained decision tree or whatever you want to call it. It's dumb, but it works.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

ijyt posted:

New resin apothecaries, love the Mk V!


:sickos: Love that mkV. Gimme that mkV.


I've been needing a couple more apothecaries so I'll definitely be picking them up. I have the old mkII and mkIV guys so it'll be nice to add to them. I'll probably be giving these guys power swords though and one's getting a jump pack.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/28/whats-coming-to-the-horus-heresy-in-2024/

The video shows a command squad standard bearer and what can only be :siren:plastic solar aux:siren:. There's even a little light sentinel thing. No real obfuscation on any of this like with the 40k or AoS videos.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Stephenls posted:

I’m guessing the command squad will have a variety of armor marks.
I'd sincerely love for that to be the case. I'd buy the kit multiple times just for conversion parts. I love kitbashing weird consuls.


I'm in the weird boat where I don't actually want a standard command squad even though it's a fantastic unit. Deathwing companions are just that little bit better than them. However, they can't take a legion standard and so aren't scoring. It's their main downside and can be relevant in smaller formats like ZM.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

I'm debating between Salamanders or Blood Angels. What are some playstyle differences and some other troops to flesh out the army after the HH box?

Overall, Blood Angels are meant to be a fast, hard hitting force built around jump packs and melee units. They need the charge for their legion special rule to work so you want to build your army with that in mind. +1 to wound is no joke and can make even mediocre units potentially scary. Dedicated melee units become powerhouses that very little can slow down. Speed and massed deep strike are how you make the most of this. The Blood Angels unique reaction is also pretty good. It's done in the shooting phase and gives a unit Shrouded (5+) and then lets them perform an out of sequence charge. Obviously, this only works up close, but if you're playing aggressively (like you should) it'll come up.

Blood Angels also have some interesting wargear available to them, the first being the inferno pistol. It's a simple swap for a plasma pistol and is just a 6" meltagun. It's a neat option and you can probably do something funny with a moritat. Then they have the perdition weapons which are upgraded power weapons that any character can take, even sergeants. They're 5 points more than normal, but come with +1S and Brutal (2). They also become two-handed, but that's a fair trade. Blood Angels are also one of the designated assault cannon legions along with the Imperial Fists. You've got pretty broad access to them, but they're not cheap. You can do dumb stuff like dreadnoughts with assault cannon fists or predators with a twin-linked assault cannon turret, assault cannon sponsons, and a pintle-mounted assault cannon if you really want to.

There are two unique Blood Angels Rites of War and they offer pretty different play styles:
  • Day of Revelation is all about jump packs. It gives you reliable, if telegraphed, deep strike and both you and your opponent will know when and where you'll be arriving. This can let them prepare so if you run this you'll have to play around that a bit. Your regularly deployed units also gain Fearless for the first turn to help ensure you don't get tabled before your reinforcements arrive. Downsides are pretty minor here. Any unit that can deep strike must do so, your compulsory HQ choice must have a jump pack, you can't take fortifications, and you can't deploy via subterranean assault.
  • Day of Sorrows is about holding ground at all costs. Crimson Paladins become non-compulsory troops with Line. Your units are stubborn within 6" of an objective and as they get whittled down below 50% they gain additional bonuses. Line (if they don't have it already), Heart of the Legion, and Hatred. The major downside here is that this Rite of War locks you out of alternate deployment methods like deep strike or outflanking. Even regular reserves are not allowed. You also must always issue a challenge in combat and your depleted units are forced to attempt a charge if they can.

Their unique units are pretty diverse. Not much overlap here though jump packs feature heavily:
  • The Crimson Paladins are tanky terminators meant to hold ground. They gain Feel No Pain when outnumbered in combat and their shields reduce incoming wound rolls from melee attacks. They have power swords with rending (5+) and sunder so they can take on most things pretty well. Access to powerfists is limited, however. They also come with deep strike built in which is rare for 30k.
  • The Dawnbreakers are your jump pack elites and come with either spears or anime swords. Both options are powerful so either build works, but we only have official models for the spears. These guys absolutely must get the charge to be effective, but they're an excellent unit. W2 with 2+ saves will protect them against bolters pretty well though their lack of an invulnerable save means heavy weapons will chew through them.
  • Angel's Tears are a unique variant of a destroyer squad. They come with jump packs and dual volkite serpentas, but can upgrade to heavier weapons like rad grenade launchers or even assault cannons. They're primarily a ranged unit, but they're no slouches in combat either. They still have a destroyer statline with two attacks, chainswords, and rad grenades.
  • They have a very silly contemptor dreadnought, the Incaendius, with a one-use rocket booster that lets it either move like a jump pack once per game or deep strike.
  • Finally, they have a unit from the Exemplary Battles series of pdfs - The Ofanim Court. They're an alternate command squad meant to represent the legion's secret police/executioners. They're a very cool unit with unique greatswords and are meant for challenges. They gain some nice bonuses like +1I and rending on a 4+. They can also take jump packs. Unfortunately, they're limited to a unit of 5. Good for smaller scale games like ZM though and they're a great narrative piece. This unit doesn't have official models so you'll need to convert them.

For building out of the AoD box, I'd recommend picking up some assault marines. You can build without them, but why would you? They just got a new kit and a couple big blobs of 20 can form the core of your army and present a genuine threat to almost anything. The tactical marines from the box are still useful, don't get me wrong, but they'll be your backfield objective holders or you can pick up special/heavy weapons to make support squads. After a unit or two of assault marines, maybe build up some fire support. Predators, sicarans, vindicators, etc. are all good choices and are now plastic. Or you could look at one of the legion units I mentioned above. They're all good candidates and you'll need a big melee threat. We also have a command squad kit coming in early 2024 and a jump pack unit would look awesome and really anchor your force in a Day of Revelation list.

The only thing in the AoD box I don't see you using much with this legion is the spartan. I'm not saying you should sell it off, but you will generally have other delivery methods available. The basic cataphractii unit that came in the box is a good candidate to ride in it, I just don't know how often you'll want to go that route. Maybe Crimson Paladins in a Day of Sorrows list.



This is a lot of words so I'm going to split the Salamanders into a separate post. Sorry, I was bored at work the other day and this got out of hand.

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Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

I'm debating between Salamanders or Blood Angels. What are some playstyle differences and some other troops to flesh out the army after the HH box?

Salamanders are sturdy and meant to take hits as they dish it out themselves at short range. Their trait reduces the effectiveness of incoming flame, melta, plasma, and volkite weapons. Note that this is a flat -1 to wound and not a reduction in strength. Your multi-wound models will still be killed by S8 weapons like meltas even if they're wounding on a 3+ instead of a 2+. It also doesn't affect your vehicles. Still, a solid trait that your infantry and dreadnoughts will love. Additionally, multi-wound models and vehicles gain It Will Not Die (6+) which is pretty minor, but could come in handy in clutch situations every so often. Don't count on it, but it could frustrate your opponent if you get lucky. Their unique reaction isn't game changing and might be a little underwhelming, but I've never seen it in action so I might be wrong. It provides a temporary stat boost (+1 WS, S, and A) when charged at the cost of potentially doing damage to your own unit after the combat is resolved. It actually sounds pretty decent now that I'm typing it out, but you'll have to weigh if it's worth it over just overwatching or whatever.

A big thing to remember with Salamanders is that all of their flamers are upgraded to dragon's breath weapons for free. Everything from hand flamers to flamestorm cannons gain +1S, AP4 if they didn't have it already, and inflict d6 hits with Wall of Death instead of the standard d3. If you want to burn things, these are your guys. However, combi-flamers aren't upgraded, only standard ones.

That's not all for though. To start with, any character, sergeants included, can master-craft a weapon for 10 points. HQs or anyone in terminator armor can take storm shields that boost any existing invulnerable save by +1. You'll generally want them for praetors or anyone in cataphractii for those sweet 3+ invulnerable saves. Don't bother with them on regular terminators, but they are absolutely worth it on Firedrakes. Praetors also have access to the Mantle of the Elder Drake which grants them Battle-hardened (1) for some decent protection against instant death. Between the last two items, Salamanders praetors are probably the toughest in the game. Give one a thunder hammer and watch him go.

The Salamanders' rites of war aren't as polarized as the Blood Angels', but they're still solid.
  • Covenant of Fire lets you take pyroclasts and flamer support squads as scoring troops. This is huge and pyroclasts in particular go from merely great to excellent. It also unlocks flamer predators as non-compulsory troops, but they're limited to flamestorm cannons and heavy flamer sponsons. The downsides are fairly minor - you can't deep strike though other options like outflanking and subterranean assault remain open, you can't take destroyers or moritats, and you must include a legion champion consul. This will likely be your go-to.
  • The Awakening Fire is all about the weird cult stuff the legion gets into while Vulkan's missing. This is meant as an infantry army and your units have the option to gain Fear (1) for 20 points. They also ignore modifiers to pinning checks like shell shock. Weirdly, this Rite comes with its own psychic discipline for librarians and an additional HQ slot for a chaplain. One of the powers is a massive 18" bubble of dangerous/difficult terrain that only affects your enemies and the other is a pretty solid template weapon with pinning. It might be worth loading up on HQs and taking a couple librarians. Downsides are that you can only take one cavalry unit, jump packs aren't allowed, you must include a chaplain, and you obviously can't take Vulkan.

Though Salamanders only have two unique units in the index book, they've benefitted a bit from the Exemplary Battles articles/book. They're all infantry, but they are somewhat blessed in that all of these units have two wounds. This leads Salamanders lists to be a bit tougher than normal.
  • Firedrake terminators are the quintessential cataphractii melee beatstick unit from last edition and are still good as hell. Thunder hammers, storm shields, and they re-roll 1s to hit in melee. Take a brick of them and toss it in a spartan. They're definitely not cheap, but the best your opponent can generally hope for is to slow them down by blowing up their ride. Attach a primus medicae to make them even tougher. Or a warmonger to let them deep strike. This is your classic death star unit.
  • Pyroclasts are weapon specialists in artificer armor which gives them a 5+ invulnerable against flame, melta, plasma, and volkite weapons. Their flamers have an alternate firing mode equivalent to a meltagun. As mentioned, they become scoring troops in the Covenant of Fire Rite of War. You're probably going to want a couple units of these.
  • Adherents are weird. They're a non-compulsory, non-scoring troops choice made up of W2 models with combi-flamers and the ability to be boosted to WS5 and gain Feel No Pain (6+). Don't rely on that, it involves an Ld7 check. Though they are somewhat special in that their combi-flamers are full on dragon's breath flamers. That said, I don't really get why you'd want these guys over vets or the Sanctifiers below, but if you're trying to represent the weird cult side of the legion they're a good unit. If they interacted with the Awakening Fire Rite of War (like maybe gaining Line?) they'd be better. Or maybe you're low on elites slots. They don't have official models so you'd need to convert them.
  • Sanctifiers are the Salamanders' version of destroyers except they're WS5 and have two wounds. No rad grenades or other associated gear though. They also don't have Bitter Duty so you're free to add characters to them. Like destroyers, they all have the option of taking either two volkite serpentas or two (upgraded) hand flamers. Take the hand flamers. Use these guys in ZM. 2d6 Wall of Death hits per model. They will not disappoint. They have some other options like one in five can take a power weapon or a thunder hammer and the unit also has access to a unique rotor cannon variant. They can get pricy quickly so don't load them up with too much stuff. These guys are another unit without models, but the new mkIII kit will be a great base to work from.

Building these guys out from the AoD box will be pretty straightforward. The tacticals can form the core of your army. Nothing wrong with cheap, scoring bodies. Maybe pick up some special weapons and make a flamer or melta squad and give them a rhino. The terminators can ride in the spartan until you get a unit of firedrakes built up. That's a unit meant for larger games so there's no rush. As mentioned, dreadnoughts love the Salamanders' legion rules so don't be afraid to grab another contemptor or even a leviathan. The leviathan can be a bit tricky since the arms are split between two boxes. You probably don't want a mixed ranged build so you might have to trade for an arm or get an extra weapons sprue. Go all melee or melta/claw and stick it in a drop pod. Double melta could also be fun and double storm cannon is a really effective all-comers ranged build. Your first resin unit should probably be pyroclasts. They're just that good. Though you may want a land raider for them.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Yeah, if you have concrete plans for the infantry it'll be a good purchase. Unless you've already got two deredeos and, I don't know, three land raiders you'll be able to find room for those models pretty easily.


Personally, I'm making 10x plasma repeaters, 10x volkite calivers, and 10x plasma cannon guys. I thought about keeping some models in reserve on the off chance we get a breacher upgrade kit for them, but plasma cannons won out.

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Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Broken Record Talk posted:

But not a Spartan like most other Elite Terminators because Horus was a naughty boy or something.

:argh:

The good lord gave you deep strike* and I suggest you learn how to use it.




*In the Black Reaving rite of war.

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Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
The new aux look great. They translated to plastic pretty well. There's been a minor loss of detail, but they're going to be so much more convenient that that's irrelevant. It's interesting that they changed the lasrifle's power cell though. Wouldn't have thought the old version would've been a problem in plastic so I wonder what's going on there.

The command squad they showed is just the baby version that lasrifle tercios can take so hopefully there's a full command squad coming. That was a beautiful kit in resin. I'm also hoping for some real veteran models for the companion units.

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