USA: This is Not a Place of Honor

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > USA: This is Not a Place of Honor

I. M. Gei: Jun 26, 2005; CHIEFS

BITCH

Surprised this one hasn't been posted yet since it happened over a week ago and there's been a ton of horrifying news footage from it.

https://apnews.com/article/uber-driver-killed-scam-4998a42b2e59aed3dda95f983b2f9b52

quote:

It was a common scam that ended with an uncommon outcome, tragically in an Ohio driveway.

William J. Brock fatally shot an Uber driver because he wrongly assumed she was part of a scheme to extract $12,000 in supposed bond money for a relative, authorities said this week. Lo-Letha Hall was a victim of the same con, summoned by the grifters to Brock�s house to retrieve a purported package for delivery.

Brock later told investigators he believed Hall arrived to get the money the scammers wanted.

He is now facing murder charges, to which he�s pleaded not guilty. Hall�s family is grieving. And Uber is helping investigators to try to catch whoever was behind the attempted swindle.

The grift is commonly known as a grandparent scam or fraud, exploiting older people�s love for their family, experts say. Callers claim to be anyone from grandchildren to police, telling victims something terrible happened and that their younger relative needs money.

Here�s what we know about the shooting and the investigation so far:

WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED?

Brock, 81, received scam calls the morning of March 25 at his home in South Charleston, a town of about 1,800 people between Dayton and Columbus. The calls regarded an incarcerated relative and �turned to threats and a demand for money,� according to a statement from the Clark County Sheriff�s Office.

While Brock was on the phone, Hall got a request through the Uber app to pick up a package from Brock�s house for delivery, the sheriff�s office said. Hall, 61, of Columbus, was unaware of the attempted scam.

�Upon being contacted by Ms. Hall, Mr. Brock produced a gun and held her at gunpoint, making demands for identities of the subjects he had spoken with on the phone,� the sheriff�s office said.

Hall was unarmed and never threatened Brock or made any demands of him, the sheriff�s office said.

Brock took Hall�s cellphone and refused to let her leave, the sheriff�s office said. When she tried to get back into her car, Brock shot her. He shot her a second time and a third time during subsequent scuffles.

Brock then called 911 to report he shot someone on his property who was trying to rob him.

Police body camera footage shows him briefly discussing what he said had happened.

�I�m sure glad to see you guys out here because I�ve been on this phone for a couple hours with this guy trying to say to me I had a nephew in jail and had a wreck in Charleston and just kept hanging on and needing bond money,� Brock said. �And this woman was supposed to get it.�

The footage shows investigators discussing $12,000 sitting on a table in Brock�s house.

The footage also shows a Clark County Sheriff�s Office detective in Brock�s house talking on the phone with a man who was talking to Brock earlier. He identified himself as an officer and told the detective, �You�re going to be in trouble.�

When the detective identified herself as an actual police officer, the phone disconnected. During a subsequent phone call with the man, the detective told him the Uber driver was in a serious accident, in the hospital and �not doing well.�

The man told the detective he�d be there in 20 minutes. He was not.

Brock was indicted on Monday of charges of murder, assault and kidnapping. He posted $200,000 bail and was released from the Clark County Jail on Wednesday. His attorney, Paul Kavanagh, did not immediately return an email seeking comment on Friday.

HOW COMMON ARE THESE SCAMS?

Grandparent scams have become increasingly common in the last 10 to 15 years � in part because of the abundance of personal information available about people online, said Anthony Pratkanis, an emeritus psychology professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Criminals retrieve specific details about someone�s relative on social media and use the information to convince victims that their loved one is in trouble, said Pratkanis, whose research includes fraud crimes.

�Basically what the criminal is doing is taking advantage of our human nature,� he said. �You�re in a panic state, high emotional arousal. It�s a fear appeal. And the best way to get rid of that fear is to give the criminal that money.�

Fraudsters typically prefer financial transactions that don�t require physical proximity, such as wire transfers, gift cards or cryptocurrency, Pratkanis said. This case is unusual because the scammers deployed Hall as an unsuspecting money mule.

�Most people in today�s kind of scams don�t really have interactions with the criminal � there�s a distance,� Pratkanis said. �But when there isn�t, there�s an opportunity for the anger of being victimized to cause the victim to take action.�

Uber said Wednesday that it was helping investigators look into an account that sent Hall to Brock�s home. The ride-hailing company described Hall�s death as �a horrific tragedy.�

�A BOND LIKE NO OTHER�

An obituary for Hall described her as the parent of a son and a stepson, a devoted member of her church and a talented cook known for delicious pound cakes.

She retired from Ohio�s Regional Income Tax Agency and also worked in behavioral health, at a school and for Uber. She studied horticulture at Ohio State and started a janitorial business.

At a memorial service that was streamed online, her son Mario Hall spoke of how close they were even though they lived in different states, often speaking on the phone multiple times a day. He said they �had a bond like no other.�

�Thank you for all your sacrifices and all the things you have instilled in me,� he said. �You are the best mom that anyone could ask for. And I promise to continue to make you proud.�

Basically a scammer called an old man while pretending to be a cop and demanded the guy pay $12,000 for a fictitious relative in prison, while also calling an Uber driver to the man's house to grab a package that didn't exist. Driver arrives at the man's house, man sees her and assumes she's in on the grift and came to take his money, man confronts driver with a gun thinking he's being robbed, driver tries to flee, and man shoots and kills her probably thinking she's either reaching for a weapon or leaving to get backup. Just all around lovely for everyone involved. Then later after police arrive the scammer calls the man's house again and talks to an actual cop, still pretending to be a cop himself, and when he finds out he's talking to a real cop he immediately hangs up.

Just a disgusting tragic shitshow.

Unfortunately scams like this are relatively common in the US. My dad was almost a victim of it several years back. He got a call from some rear end in a top hat claiming to be a cop who demanded something like $500 for failure to show for jury duty. Thankfully we called the real cops and that's how we found out it was a scam, but it was still an incredibly lovely experience.

I hope they catch this scammer and give him a worse sentence than the old man. This kind of poo poo shouldn't happen, and the scammer might as well be just as guilty for the driver's death as the old guy, if not more-so.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 22:39

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 7, 2024 22:45

No. 6: Jun 30, 2002

Old dude shouldn't have shot

# ? Apr 23, 2024 22:53

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

yeah the scammer should be charged with murder but the old guy shot a fleeing person and then shot her two more times when she wasn't dead yet. gently caress him.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 22:55

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

So old man's claims his plan was what now? Kidnap the scammer? This seems pretty clear cut premeditated murder

# ? Apr 23, 2024 22:59

Taeke: Feb 2, 2010

I saw the video and that poor woman was very obviously terrified and very obviously didn't know what was going on and what this old crazy person with a gun was talking about. He murdered her.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:05

spiritual bypass: Feb 19, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Yeah but most gun owners didn't murder her

# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:10

FoolyCharged: Oct 11, 2012; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Yeah, he's still putting the value of life below the value of stuff. And not everyone's stuff, dude was perfectly happy stealing the woman's phone from her while attempting to hold her hostage for the police. And he was holding her with the threat of lethal force. Over stuff.

I'm sure there will be a song and dance about how he felt threatened, but at the end of the day he was the one that immediately escalated to threatening deadly force and refused to allow the other party to flee, and then executed them when they attempted to against his will.

All this rear end in a top hat had to do to stop this tragedy from occurring was not open his door.

That's it. He had identified the scam and wasn't going to fall for it. The woman is absolutely dead because of his insane and bloody desire for vengeance over a scam that didn't even work on him.

FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Apr 23, 2024

# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:34

No. 6: Jun 30, 2002

Bingo

# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:42

FoolyCharged: Oct 11, 2012; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

I know that was kind of a rant, but seriously, gently caress the "good guy with a gun" myth. If this guy hadn't thought himself in a Hollywood movie, a woman that was already a victim of a scam and intended him no harm would not be dead. And the man has been so deluded that he thinks this was the correct and good way to handle the situation and he should not be held responsible for his part in the outcome.

# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:45

rotinaj: Sep 5, 2008; Fun Shoe

Of course it was an old white guy shooting a middle aged black lady

Of course that�s how the story�s racial breakdown went

# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:58

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

how else would it go down? this is America

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:02

Pennywise the Frown: May 10, 2010; Upset Trowel

He's old and sometimes people get out of jail for being old but I hope he dies in prison. :shrug:

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:04

I. M. Gei: Jun 26, 2005; CHIEFS

BITCH

FoolyCharged posted:

Yeah, he's still putting the value of life below the value of stuff. And not everyone's stuff, dude was perfectly happy stealing the woman's phone from her while attempting to hold her hostage for the police. And he was holding her with the threat of lethal force. Over stuff.

First off, the old guy should absolutely face consequences for murdering that woman, and I don't want to sound like he shouldn't or like I'm denying that he should.

Having said that, $12,000 is a whole lot of "stuff", especially for an elderly retired person on a fixed income. For most people and especially most old people, that's not "I can give this to a thief and eat the loss/get it back later, no biggie" money. It's "I'm never getting this back and I might die this month because now I can't afford to pay my bills or medical costs" money.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:09

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

that's right, old people are the only people afraid of losing their money so they should be able to shoot you

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:15

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

now if you rob a hobo or a young poor person? well that's different they aren't on a fixed income

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:15

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

fixed income is a fake idea and social security gets better inflation adjustments than any cost of living raise I've ever received

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:16

FoolyCharged: Oct 11, 2012; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

I. M. Gei posted:

First off, the old guy should absolutely face consequences for murdering that woman, and I don't want to sound like he shouldn't or like I'm denying that he should.

Having said that, $12,000 is a whole lot of "stuff", especially for an elderly retired person on a fixed income. For most people and especially most old people, that's not "I can give this to a thief and eat the loss/get it back later, no biggie" money. It's "I'm never getting this back and I might die this month because now I can't afford to pay my bills or medical costs" money.

It's the same for me, and if I shot someone because I was mad someone else had tried to scam me out of it, I would hope to God that none of y'all would give me any room for it either.

It does not matter how much or how important the stuff is. A human life is more important.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:18

shirunei: Sep 7, 2018; I tried to run away. To take the easy way out. I'll live through the suffering. When I die, I want to feel like I did my best.

I. M. Gei posted:

First off, the old guy should absolutely face consequences for murdering that woman, and I don't want to sound like he shouldn't or like I'm denying that he should.

Having said that, $12,000 is a whole lot of "stuff", especially for an elderly retired person on a fixed income. For most people and especially most old people, that's not "I can give this to a thief and eat the loss/get it back later, no biggie" money. It's "I'm never getting this back and I might die this month because now I can't afford to pay my bills or medical costs" money.

He posted a 200k bond immediately so I don't think he's on fixed income.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:24

emSparkly: Nov 21, 2022; I'm open to interpretation!

Just don�t loving shoot people!

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:26

syntaxfunction: Oct 27, 2010

I. M. Gei posted:

Having said that, $12,000 is a whole lot of "stuff"

He already knew it was a scam so actually he was risking losing $0 because he was never giving anything to anyone.

Killing someone over $12,000 is also really bad and not justifiable, but he killed her over the $0 he was planning to give.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:27

I. M. Gei: Jun 26, 2005; CHIEFS

BITCH

Was the guy actually aware that it was a scam from the start? The story doesn't make it clear, but it sounds like part of him thought it might be legit but he wasn't 100% sure, and that might be why he opened the door and confronted the woman to start with.

If he knew it was a scam to begin with then yeah, he should've just not confronted the woman at all and called the cops on the scammer.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:28

shirunei: Sep 7, 2018; I tried to run away. To take the easy way out. I'll live through the suffering. When I die, I want to feel like I did my best.

Well he had the 12k sitting on his dining table so who knows what he really thought.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:31

syntaxfunction: Oct 27, 2010

Oh well if he wasn't entirely sure that absolutely makes it justified because twelve thousand is a lot and a human life is just like a human life.

Edit: it could've been five hundred thousand and still doesn't make it okay for anyone still erring hth

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:35

Cassette Moodcore: May 4, 2022

Regardless if he knew it was a scam or not he chased the poor woman around and cold blooded murdered her, she literally was not a threat and wanted to get away

Hope he rots in prison

# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:38

Murdstone: Jun 14, 2005; I'm feeling Jimmy

I didn't know you could call an Uber to basically act as a messenger service.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 01:06

Prokhor Zakharov: Dec 31, 2008; This is me as I make another great post

Good luck with your depression!

there's a weird trend going on with aging white boomer men where they're realizing how old and decrepit they are but still desperately want people to think they're tough guys who would win a fight because they have 60 years of Hollywood action movie brain poisoning

# ? Apr 24, 2024 01:22

wash bucket: Feb 21, 2006

Peepaw just thought it was his turn to shoot someone. He doesn't have many years left after all.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 01:41

bird with big dick: Oct 21, 2015

I. M. Gei posted:

First off, the old guy should absolutely face consequences for murdering that woman, and I don't want to sound like he shouldn't or like I'm denying that he should.

Having said that, $12,000 is a whole lot of "stuff", especially for an elderly retired person on a fixed income. For most people and especially most old people, that's not "I can give this to a thief and eat the loss/get it back later, no biggie" money. It's "I'm never getting this back and I might die this month because now I can't afford to pay my bills or medical costs" money.

Except he didn�t lose $12,000. He didnt lose anything. He�s a murderous psychopath and deserves to die in prison.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 02:02

shirunei: Sep 7, 2018; I tried to run away. To take the easy way out. I'll live through the suffering. When I die, I want to feel like I did my best.

but what if we later find out hes mid-way through a dementia death?? i think we should take a step back here and respect our elders by giving them the benefit of a doubt

# ? Apr 24, 2024 02:14

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

the benefit of my doubt handily works just as well inside a prison cell.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 02:17

wilderthanmild: Jun 21, 2010; Posting shit; Grimey Drawer

Yeah I have 0 sympathy for this guy.

He thought this person was failing to scam him and shot them. I kind of read it like he got really close to getting scammed, to the point of getting out 12k in money to give, but figured it right at the end. I think he was just embarrassed and mad at this person he thought was part of the scam. A fragile ego can be deadly when broken.

Quick Edit: If he turns out to have some kind of serious dementia going on, it should be treated like an insanity defense imo. Lock him away in a hospital, but lock him away none the less.

wilderthanmild fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Apr 24, 2024

# ? Apr 24, 2024 02:45

wash bucket: Feb 21, 2006

I'm not joking when I say a whole lot of gun owners are running "am I allowed to shoot them now???" math in their head all the time.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 02:47

wilderthanmild: Jun 21, 2010; Posting shit; Grimey Drawer

On a side note, I hope they also find the scammer and charge that guy with whatever they can. It's not like he could foresee that exact series of events, but play evil games win evil prizes like an involuntary manslaughter charge.

wash bucket posted:

I'm not joking when I say a whole lot of gun owners are running "am I allowed to shoot them now???" math in their head all the time.

Yeah. Lots of gun groups also offer training in exactly what to say to maximize your odds of not getting in trouble after the fact too.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:02

Pennywise the Frown: May 10, 2010; Upset Trowel

Did anyone look into the background of the woman he ~~murdered~~ defended himself against?

I'm sure she was no angel...

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:07

TEMPLE GRANDIN OS: Dec 10, 2003; ...blyat

emSparkly posted:

Just don’t loving shoot people!

the USA will never solve the problem because people LIKE to shoot people

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:07

Outrail: Jan 4, 2009; www.sapphicrobotica.com

The stupid old man could have easily said 'I am calling the police' but I guess that's basically attempted murder in of itself.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:14

wilderthanmild: Jun 21, 2010; Posting shit; Grimey Drawer

Outrail posted:

The stupid old man could have easily said 'I am calling the police' but I guess that's basically attempted murder in of itself.

On the dashcam footage, he shoots her shortly after she says she is going to call the police. He shot her in the leg first. This guy was trying to do some dumb action movie poo poo to get the answers he wanted.

Oh and on his call he tries to lay out the "I feared for my life" defense bullshit they teach to you say. If it weren't for the dashcam, it might have worked considering it was a white man shooting a black woman in rural-ish Ohio.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:27

Chef Boyardeez Nuts: Sep 9, 2011; The more you kick against the pricks, the more you suffer.

I love how we just abandoned telephonic communication to the unfettered whims of global scammers to the point that no one in their right mind answers the phone anymore.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:31

Outrail: Jan 4, 2009; www.sapphicrobotica.com

wilderthanmild posted:

On the dashcam footage, he shoots her shortly after she says she is going to call the police. He shot her in the leg first. This guy was trying to do some dumb action movie poo poo to get the answers he wanted.

Oh and on his call he tries to lay out the "I feared for my life" defense bullshit they teach to you say. If it weren't for the dashcam, it might have worked considering it was a white man shooting a black woman in rural-ish Ohio.

Oh, well that guy is a straight up murderer then. Old enough to die in prison at least.

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 7, 2024 22:45

TrashMammal: Nov 10, 2022

goddamn, op. ain�t no room at all in this horror show to be playing white devil�s advocate

# ? Apr 24, 2024 03:56

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > USA: This is Not a Place of Honor

«‹›317 »