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Question for republican senators: should trump be charged with federal crimes, or is the appropriate response to impeach, convict, and revoke his ability to hold public office?
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Jun 28, 2022 22:49
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So about that witness tampering
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Jun 29, 2022 00:26
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Bel Shazar posted:The president's the leader of the party, right? And the Jan 6th hearings are going into gory detail about the corruption. Seems like the whole party qualifies. It would be completely "unamerican" to target a non-Marxist political party like that.
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Jul 2, 2022 00:34
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Hey, if there a legal path to a death penalty for Trump?
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Jul 7, 2022 07:50
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Madkal posted:Easy there, Louise Mensch I mean, so far as I know there are two ways to make trum ineligible to hold public office. The first is for the house to impeach and the senate to convict. That seems unlikely. The other way is for the justice department to charge him with treason, and for a jury to convict. This seems much more likely. The latter option includes the possibility of sentencing trum to hang from gallows on the steps of the capital. So I'm like, let's go for it. Demand it. We live in a democracy, after all. Full-throated pursuit of the legal execution of Donald j Trump is the wise move here.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:18
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I'm not saying hope for it. I'm saying, advocate for it, loudly.
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Jul 7, 2022 18:45
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Seems to me treason charges are more likely if the electorate is loudly, angrily calling for it
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Jul 7, 2022 19:05
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Man, it's a shame a jury can only consider one charge, and nobody can ever be charged with any other crime after their only trial Hang Donald trump.
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Jul 7, 2022 19:39
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But like, secret service can't be upset about calling for the justice department to file charges, prosecute, and push for the harshest penalties. It also does not violate any obvious forum rule to advocate for this proposed legal outcome, even if it's a long shot that many (rightly, even!) think ridiculous. So, I'm saying it plainly. Donald Trump should be put to death for the actions outlined by the house committee. Donald Trump should not be allowed to live. He should be prosecuted for treason, convicted by a jury, and sentenced to be hanged. Legally.
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Jul 8, 2022 04:19
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It's clear that Trump /cannot/ be allowed to be president again, and we know that if he is, he will continue destroying the federal apparatus in the worst ways. We know he has no loyalty to the constitution, and while neither do I, he swore an oath and took the reins. That makes charging him with treason much more reasonable than charging some qult fool that breached the capital. Not just because he encouraged his allies to mastermind and execute the coup, but doubly so because he took an oath, and it's an oath that federal courts are obliged to care about. It's clear he must not be allowed to be president, and there are only two legal ways to achieve that that I know of: one is for the senate to vote to convict, and also to ban him from holding public office; the other is to charge him with and convict him of treason. The GOP will have a much more difficult time interfering with the court. Moreover; preventing Trump from holding office is necessary, but not sufficient. He built a movement, he deceived millions, and this has further destabilized things. That movement must end. There must not be any candidates for office running on a 'Trump did nothing wrong' platform. When Donald Trump is handed down a sentence of death, all the agents and assets that have taken a similar oath will be compelled to refrain from voicing public support for him. He may appeal. It may go to the Supreme Court (would it tho? I don't know). Hey may be granted a stay or commutation or whatever (I'm against). But like, the chud qanon Maga movement has to be kicked in the balls, and creating legal precedence for regarding trumps actions as treasonous is all you can do to discourage the next flynn, or whatever. If Donald Trump is not convicted for the treason clearly outlined by the house select committee, it will continue to be debatable whether insurrection is free speech. When he is sentenced to death, however, the Shockwave will significantly weaken the fascist machine surrounding trump. It might even provide the opportunity for the gop to purge trumpism, but at this point I'm opposed to that party making any gains ever again.
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Jul 8, 2022 04:46
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I get that it's harder, in principle. What I'm pointing out is that Trump made it easy, by his demonstrable actions.
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Jul 8, 2022 06:25
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sebmojo posted:do you understand that if you can be sentenced to death by your political foes that losing power is then tantamount to suicide? So you might as well stage a coup? the romans understood the poo poo out of this, and that was some time ago. Certainly the standard should be very high; but if there is no standard that can be met, why make it a crime at all? In any case, while you might advocate for treason not being a crime punishable by death - it is on the books. And I can't imagine a standard for "treason" chargrd that the house select committee has not yet already demonstrated.
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Jul 8, 2022 06:45
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Fwiw, I'm not trying to convince you to TOXX that Trump will be convicted of treason I'm not willing to toxx that he'll be convicted for his treason. I'm saying Trump would be weakened if every one of us wrote an impassioned "letter to the editor" of our respective local papers arguing that he ought to be put to death. I'm saying Trump might actually start to be afraid, if there were people on busy street corners flying signs calling for trumps execution. And I think it'd be cool if he were so weakened. Also, how cool is it that I can publicly call for trump - once a potus - to be murdered (and yeah, when the state employs the death penalty they - we - are murdering someone) without having two serious men in suits show up at my house in a black sedan? /flex/ that poo poo, boo Trump should die. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Uglycat fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 10, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 04:25
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So Trump knew in advance of this meeting that no evidence exists. These people - not wh staff - got a personal audience with Trump Wh staff react and go to intercede? This expands the list of unhung traitors.
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Jul 12, 2022 18:49
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Sigint corroborating the narrative
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Jul 12, 2022 19:35
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Flynn is unhung
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Jul 12, 2022 19:37
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Stone: unhung
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Jul 12, 2022 19:38
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Mike Lindell: unhung E: actually, I doubt Lindell ever swore an oath to the constitution. He prolly lives
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Jul 12, 2022 19:47
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Wild prediction: Three convictions for treason, one death sentence (commuted), dozens convicted for sedition
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Jul 12, 2022 20:09
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More witness tampering E: like, since the last hearing, with a record now in Doj's hands
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Jul 12, 2022 20:54
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TulliusCicero posted:
Well, we tried "its putin all along" - which is absolutely the case - but the conspirators wrestled the Overton window to make it laughable to ever suggest international spy craft and intrigue and state sponsored campaigns of stochastic terrorism and sophisticated vote manipulation (using their propaganda machine, eumemics, manufactured consent, yadda)... So now the dems make a nice neat tight narrative with just Trump and his inner circle as masterminds of the hell putin built, the havoc wrecked by the 2016 hack (with guccifer 2.0, the other IRA, fancy bear, Cambridge analytica, etc). A narrative that leaves out that qanon was a weaponized arg that flynn directed from the start. No, this narrative is neat and right. Trump big man. Buck stop there.
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Jul 13, 2022 07:30
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I'm guessing, especially if it's sms, that there is end to end encryption. The key probably died when the devices were wiped. That's pure speculation tho and yall can explain to me how for sure at&t or the nsa must necessarily have the contents of those texts. If we have encrypted messages, tho, we'd have all the metadata...
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Jul 19, 2022 20:30
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mdemone posted:Don't care, everybody gotta go. Things like this continue to rot and fester. If I was POTUS (lol), I'd name a bipartisan commission to both remake the entire agency and deal with the immediate issues that will arise while that's being done. Looking forward to the new, upgraded Transparent Service
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Jul 20, 2022 18:51
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Should any SS agents appear before the committee? E: and does the committee have meta data of which agents sent texts (and to whom) with a timeline?
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Jul 20, 2022 20:23
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Trump was probably corresponding with persons off-continent, as he was sitting and watching and tweeting and occasionally meeting with his co-conspirators on the ground or telling saner people to gently caress off. Like, a human solo without encouragement doesn't resist this level of social pressure. I propose he was following orders. But whose? Doesn't matter. Let's assume, contrarily, the correspondences outlined today account for the whole of Trump's communications this day. There's sufficient evidence to convict him for treason and sentenced him to hang.
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Jul 22, 2022 03:00
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Suppose the fbi arrested bannon, Giuliani, flynn, stone, and maybe a few other pardon-seekers (specifically focusing on people that have sworn a public oath to the constituition), seized all of their digital machines, and interrogated each of them about their correspondences on jan6. Then they do the feds do since it's illegal to lie to them, and they work each against the other and Crack em open I mean, hypothetically E: I don't think arrogance, ego and pride are sufficient for explaining his refusal to call off the mob or promise an orderly transition. He was under enormous pressure, sometimes expert wranglers, sometimes careful guidance, but it was a torrent. He had to have ongoing encouragement (be it from co-conspirators encouraging follow through, or agents exerting leverage) from outside parties to resist that. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 04:05
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Nelson Mandingo posted:What? No. They laid out what happened. The coup attempt was failing and it was clear that police were getting things back under control and the military was coming in to re-establish control since VP Pence was effectively the acting president. Trump then finally relented. He wasn't doing anything because that was the point- they were supposed to kill Mike Pence and other members of congress so he could call for martial law nationwide. The plan was to show up in person and lead the mob himself. Denied that, he hid in a private room with a burner phone for 2.5 hours. He emerged with a script to follow that none of the wh staff had handed him, and that script interfered with his ability to deliver the scripts offered by white house staffers, and after putting enormous social pressure on him to gain compliance, they all gave up and went home. E: maybe he was watching fox news. Maybe he was talking to flynn. Maybe he was in thoughtful meditation. Maybe he was on 8chan. Maybe he was getting direction from the Kremlin. We'll probably never know, but we don't have to. Trump is guilty of treason. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 04:27
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The revolutionary romantics do coordinate. Trump isn’t a guy who would have knowledge of revolutionary action and how revolutions work. This is a dumb man. At the very least Brannon does (he has asserted he’s read Lenin). The unmentioned Russians would also. I mean somebody with more brains had to have planned this. Could be flynn. Or stone. The list of potential masterminds is pretty short. And most were clearly working together, with Trump. But yeah. Bannon. Putin (but nobody cares and that's fine)
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Jul 22, 2022 04:35
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crime fighting hog posted:Random question but could congress/senate propose and pass a law that Trump could not run again, or is this up to courts to decide? The house could impeach, the senate could convict, and then they could vote that he cannot hold public office. Otherwise, he had to be charged with and convicted of treason. To forbid him from public office. But there are notably two ways to forbid someone from holding public office.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:40
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Putin is getting his dick slammed in a door right now between Ukraine and the sanctions. This is also the short list for masterminds of qanon. Funnily enough.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:44
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If trump had shown up at the steps of the capitol... Would fox news have portrayed his move as bold and good while repeating the stolen election lies?
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Jul 22, 2022 04:53
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Piell posted:Yes Then another someone has to hang E: no, hanging should be exclusively for people that swore a public oath to the constitution. But treason nonetheless.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:56
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It's a minor quibble I know, but... I've had to turn down invitations to join various Orders and such because I could not honestly say I've never conspired to overthrow the US government. I would like to see the Eagles expell all Jan 6 sympathizers.
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Jul 23, 2022 02:47
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Murgos posted:The movement and location of the president is actually classified information. I expect operational details of his security at that moment and the near future is also classified. So, yeah, pretty much all classified. Is Trump sitting alone for 2 1/2 hours while on a burner phone analogous?
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Jul 23, 2022 17:00
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Even if precedence and decorum suggest strongly against Trump being charged and convicted of a crime, Trump has had no regard for precedence and decorum. It's clear he violated existing laws, was derelict of his duties, and betrayed an oath he swore. He clearly is of the wrong demeanor; which is to say, he's guilty of misdemeanors (to say nothing of his high crimes). He has the intention of seeking further public office. He must be disqualifies from holding office. There are two mechanisms by which this can be done.
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Jul 27, 2022 01:07
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Treason is a big swing to take when seditious conspiracy is an absolute guarantee. We've seen sufficient evidence to convict on both charges.
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Jul 27, 2022 06:26
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Fuschia tude posted:Also, his position wasn't some independent counsel office created by law, as we had in the 80s and 90s. That law expired in 1999. It was a special counsel, explicitly created by and run under the auspices and authority of the DOJ, reporting directly to and overseen directly by the AG. As such, it had to operate under the rules and regulations of the DOJ. So ianal... Mueller report was /not/ a vindication, and dod could decide to file charges based on Mueller's work (without triggering any double indemnity stuff), yeah? Would the dod people piecing together the case - have access to the full, unredacted Mueller research? Just the parallel reconstruction - or would they have the og classified intel?
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Jul 28, 2022 01:55
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Yeah, I hosed up d for j. Was trying to help my boss fix her pos system while posting and mixed poo poo up. Sorry? Doj, obvsy
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Jul 28, 2022 03:00
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We're kinda getting the shape of the narrative, but we haven't seen a lot of documents. Some people willing to sing now will have deliberately not kept records before, providing only testimony. Some probably kept dox to protect themselves. These will come more from people that were against the plan. Some will surely have been sloppy, incomplete, leaving fragments or better. Opsec is hard. Some will have assumed there would never be an investigation or any subpoenas and just "yeah yeah yeahed" through suggestions for opsec (and maybe politely didn't take notes in certain meetings with certain persons). Then there's the media record, broadcasts and timestamped tweets and docu teams rolling; the committee has curated a trove, and shown us an illustrative sample to flesh out the narrative. Oh yeah, and snitches. There are always snitches. We know the feds have a shirload of dox, yeah? Biden should be able to unlock and examine any "top secret" file on the white house server, so all the federal records are accessible (and their absence anywhere should read like the Nixon tapes 17 minutes or whatever). We know the feds raided maralago. We know shreds of paper have been recovered from the white house toilet (!!). We can figure anyone willing to testify before Congress is willing to talk to the feds, and each will have some portion of dox. The feds can put leverage on a number of people to make then cough up more. The fed may have access to nsa dox, guiding some of the parallel reconstruction. Anything gathered by the j6 select committee is at the Fed's fingertips. This train is just getting going.
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Jul 28, 2022 20:30
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 05:04 |
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VideoGameVet posted:That might be true, but I also suspect an agency with the initials NSA might be keeping track of that as well. True, but if it turns out the nsa was 'spying' on trumps secret service then Maga beats the "deep state conspiracy" drum
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Aug 3, 2022 01:17
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