Trump Legal Troubles: White Power Nap

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mutata: Mar 1, 2003

I thought they said they were done reviewing the documents? Is this all just showmanship bullshit that everyone's doing to appeal to whatever parties they're personally trying to appeal to?

# ¿ Sep 1, 2022 21:51

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 06:12

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Pretty good news day so far.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2022 21:39

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Jaxyon posted:

Congress has a right to literally any US citizens testimony lol

lol not if congress never does any loving thing for people who refuse.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2022 00:22

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Deteriorata posted:

You might want to talk to Steve Bannon about that.

Pence knows the committee is going to cease to exist in January and is just going to run out the clock, like Trump.

They got 1! Now how about the others, including Trump? How about literally ANY consequences for the subject of this lauded committee?

As you say, they're just gonna run out the clock and nothing will happen.

Jaxyon posted:

Congress has a right to literally any US citizens testimony lol

Not if they don't enforce the rules they don't.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2022 00:46

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Jaxyon posted:

Did you forget that you replied to this already on the last page

lol yeah I did. My brain is fried after being sick and then sleeping for 18 hours straight only to wake up and feel worse than ever.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2022 01:56

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

Yes if you set aside everything they did, they didn’t do anything.

What have they done that will have meaningful impact on the health of our election system and/or the next "Trump But Smart This Time" elected leader? Because I haven't seen much at all.

Even Bannon got, what, a few months of jail? Oof, pack it in, insurrectionists, it's all over!

The whole J6C has once again outed the Dems as weak house cats with no teeth or claws.

mutata fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Nov 17, 2022

# ¿ Nov 17, 2022 02:55

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Murgos posted:

Lol, wat?

The J6C did exactly the thing that they were capable of doing which is document what happened from trumps private meetings in November through the assault. That’s the only thing they ever could do.

that you think there was more and that they didn’t do it is you being some kind of weird authoritarian fascist with no regard for law.

Ah, so they meant this all along, you say. We'll tha ks for the heads up, J6C, but what now then?

Your own is dumb, though. You know drat well what I mean.

Cool appeal to Godwin, though. Fuckin' goons, lol.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2022 04:31

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Ah, sure sure. The consequences are coming ANY DAY NOW.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2022 05:09

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Ynglaur posted:

Sometimes I think the nothingburgers actually just want mob justice. If they hanged Trump in front of the Capitol tomorrow morning they'd say, "It was ~~two years~~ ~~four years~~ six years too late."

Unfortunately, this effectively devolves from "I hate tyrants" to "I want my form of tyranny to win."

This is the exact thing you accuse of the "nothingburgers" of doing. Look, I get that there's process here for a reason, and I understand that there's a special prosecutor currently doing this same process on the side with actual teeth, and that the Jan6 committee report will feed into that. I even get that this is technically historic, but "procedure" in Washington is very often in the same category as "decorum" which is that it often amounts to jack poo poo, especially after 8+ years of masks off for the conservative side. They're gonna play dirty and to a cynic today's culmination can look very much like a bunch of congresspeople once again doing nothing of actual substance and then calling it historic. You can't blame people who have spent the past decade in the political and media climate we have of reading the headlines today and going "Sure, throw it on the pile of "procedure" so the GOP can just light it on fire to help burn down the republic".

In any case, it's dumb either way. Either something will happen or it wont, and no one in here can affect what happens in the slightest.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2022 02:20

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

You're trying to start a completely different argument (the one that you want to have based on your assumptions of what I think) and I'm not really interested in having it, so no thanks.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2022 02:26

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

So you have no idea.

Cool.

Again, you just want to have the argument you want to have and that other guy you tried to call out hasn't come back yet, so you purposefully missed my entire point, chief. Again, no thanks.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2022 02:30

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

Your criticism doesn't make any sense because it's bullshit decorum bloviating about a committee that hasn't actually done any decorum bullshit.

This is wrong. I merely used the decorum line because it comes up so often on D&D. It's a comparison to illustrate how cynics see the committee's actions, and doesn't have any connection to the committee at all. Sorry if that was confusing.

D&D thinks decorum is useless and distracting in the same way that cynics think this committee was another Mueller investigation. You can't blame people for being cynical about these big grand gestures congress makes because they so very often just fizzle and amount to nothing. You've studied it all and you see this as a bigger part in a larger machine. Fine, we'll see. Most people just see this as congress holding meetings while Rome burns and, again, considering the behavior of the legislative branch as a whole over the past 8+ years, that's not an unreasonable belief.

Edit: Again, you're just wanting to have the argument YOU want to have, so I'm gonna stop responding to you.

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mutata fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Dec 20, 2022

# ¿ Dec 20, 2022 02:36

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Grip it and rip it posted:

and it continues to be a major issue which will directly effect the extent to which Trump is ever held to account for his actions. The idea that this is a nothinburger is strange to me - we are in completely unprecedented waters for U.S. politics. The idea that anyone on this forum can draw any solid conclusions about the impact of this committee and what transpired on January 6 is doubtful.

What is clear is that there are factions wthin the republican party that want to be done with Trump - in many ways they have been handed a tool that could be used to accomplish that goal. Whether anything that major will happen remains to be seen.

That's all fair enough.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2022 03:18

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Always have been.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2022 05:06

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Haha back to this again. The pedants will just keep asking "what does Mattering mean to you?!" and when you say anything at all, they roll their eyes and start yelling about goalposts to the strawman they've built of you.

"Mattering" is like porn: you know it when you see it and folks, I ain't seen jack poo poo yet that looks like anything mattering whatsoever so far.

I guess we'll see once the special investigator announces that he searched for months and months and whoops wouldn't ya know it, we should probably indict him but no high level prosecutor is gonna risk it to indict so oh well, America!

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 07:42

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Shageletic posted:

I think what people are asking about is the immense amount of hype and fart huffing that has happened in this thread, and the larger Dem establishment talking spaces, about Trump and the GOP will suffer as a result of the election bullshit. People were posting that there were gonna be arrests and consequences for politicos, just hiding behind the screen. When anyone who pays attn to politics and isn't so blinded by ideology would have seen that no, based on history, that poo poo would absolutely not happen.

So in other words none of it ACTUALLY mattered and Trump got away with it.

We get accused of being naive but the other side is SUPER high on their own opinion section that they've accepted the most middling of shrugs in Trump's direction as "mattering" because someone in the 1830s ALSO once didn't get thrown in jail for sedition so therefore we're "following historical precedent" or whatever pointless parallels they try to draw. Am I naive for expecting Trump to be punished for his obvious and provable crimes? Maybe. But the rest of y'all who get all huffy when we respond with "yeah that doesn't seem like it matters" are pitiful.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 19:24

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Shageletic posted:

Past incidences are a good indicator of present performance, yeah.

And 1830s? Lol. I mean Watergate, Iran Contra, Keating Five, etc are right there. Examples of the political system contorting itseld and in fact going out of its way to not only protect but reward its members for corruption.

Duke Cunningham, a congressman who literally had a menu of bribery he would hand out , was just pardoned by Trump in Jan 2021.

Listen, ignorance is fine. But it ain't healthy! Esp if you're beating your head expecting results that will never, ever, materialize.

Thanks for your response, but I didn't read it.

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# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 21:35

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Main Paineframe posted:

Did the prosecutions and lawsuits all get dropped? Whether any of this is going to "matter" or not still remains to be seen, because the various processes that could potentially lead to some sort of consequences are still ongoing. These constant "has anything mattered yet" conversations are just impatience. And unfortunately, you're going to have to wait a good while longer, because expecting a judge to save us from fascism or pull us out of a constitutional crisis with the stroke of a pen is almost certainly a sign of overly high expectations.

As someone said before, it also depends on your definition of "mattering". Being a made-up phrase, it's essentially meaningless and thus useless for discussion. Instead of spouting lovely meme catchphrases, it'd be more helpful for discussion if people would just specifically ask what they want to know. For example, this?

That's straight-up not happening. By design, it is extremely difficult to permanently deprive someone of the right to run for office. I won't say it's outright impossible, but it's a notoriously difficult path for a prosecutor to pursue, with substantial constitutional constraints. I'd be shocked if the DoJ chose such a risky charge against Trump. So if "Trump barred from political office" is what Mattering means to you, then there won't be a Mattering.

So like we said: Nothing Trump has done will matter and he will continue living his best life. You just need to say that. "Anything matter yet?" "Nope, nothing yet" lol

# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 21:37

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

I know more about the seditious conspiracy charge because that seems to be the most primary, but at least going by any of the actual lawyers I've read/listened to : yes. "I legit thought the election was stolen" could be a valid defense in court, and he could try to show that it was a sincere belief (because he's a dumb dumb). The line wouldn't be "...and therefore we went to war with the federal government" it would be how they tried to do things legally and things aww shucks happened to get out of hand.

It's why having all of the testimony of people in the White House has been so important because now we have direct evidence that Trump knew he lost and was doing it anyway. It's why we've been dicking around for this whole investigation, because it's actually necessary.

The big reason why I have no patience for the "nothing matters" crowd is that in general they have no clue what's actually going on with the investigation and haven't even bothered to look at the (publicly available) legal code or watch an interview with an actual lawyer going through things ; it's a frustrating conversation because even if it's a good faith position it's inherently couched in ignorance and incredulity rather than actual nuance.

Sure, but, like, what's your definition of "mattering" here?

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 21:19

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

7c Nickel posted:

An additional thing is that the "Nothing Matters" crew has made confident predictions that were proved completely wrong, and then just kind of... skipped over that with no reflection on whether that reflected poorly on their model of the world.

This is called a Strawman.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2023 00:04

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Fuschia tude posted:

Assuming you're not implying they should effect the latter, that's because "no law enforcement entity in the US or abroad" has such a power. There is no prosecutorial way to prevent Trump from getting elected again, except to indict and convict him on treason. Which is something that basically no one ever gets charged with, let alone found guilty, because it's effectively impossible to convict for treason under the US Constitution, by design.

Welcome to Team Nothing Matters, then!

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# ¿ Feb 1, 2023 06:26

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

I will accept the below definition of mattering. If you're telling me that there's no chance in hell of this happening, then you and I are in agreement.

The real question is why would ANYONE accept anything less than this? Pretty silly stuff!

nine-gear crow posted:

At it's most elemental level though, the point of "the mattering" is the moment when Donald Trump will irrevocably be unable to cause any more harm to the United States and by extension the entire planet Earth and no law enforcement entity in the US or abroad appears, at this moment still, ready, willing, or able to make that moment a reality. So the real "mattering" moment remains and has a very strong chance of remaining "the moment Donald Trump dies of natural causes" and nothing less.

Fuschia tude posted:

Uh, if for some reason I decided to adopt your bar of "Donald Trump is dead or tried and convicted of treason by the DOJ", sure.

Why is that the one and only definition of The Mattering you will accept

Why is the bare minimum of justice the only mattering I'll accept? I'm afraid I don't understand the question.

mutata fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Feb 1, 2023

# ¿ Feb 1, 2023 07:18

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Well, we'll see once it makes it to the SCOTUS. Too bad there's not just a "skip to the supreme court bit" button for this poo poo.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2023 19:38

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Took longer than I thought it would to get back here again, haha.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 07:08

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Boris Galerkin posted:

does this mean hes going to jail or

He will make a big show of the revolving door rich folks get to do when they get in trouble. Trump's being "indicted" while regular people just get fuckin' thrown in jail. He'll be out on bail in 2 seconds and they'll set a 2057 date for his trial.

Yep, it's me, the cynic. Cool that we even made it this far, though. I didn't think they would do it.

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# ¿ Mar 31, 2023 02:21

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Or any of the Trump cases specifically either.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2023 05:24

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Heh, I mean, 5 million is not even a slap on the wrist. More like a winking nudge in the ribs, but 2 different justice systems, what else is new.

# ¿ May 10, 2023 02:31

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Any and all cases and investigations against him (including ones that have "moved along", complete with breathless predictions from liberal-leaning media) so far have almost exclusively amounted to that "ah, well, nevertheless" comic. This latest one will be no different.

Any actual meaningful consequences of any kind just straight up aren't happening for Trump. There are 2 systems of justice in this country, this is pretty well established.

mutata fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 15, 2023

# ¿ May 15, 2023 15:54

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Deteriorata posted:

Actual events have already proved this wrong. Please stop posting this sort of doomerism bullshit.

Trump already has criminal indictments against him in the NY tax fraud case, he's already had a jury unanimously find him guilty in the sex harassment case.

You're just blowing nonsense.

The other cases against him continue to move forward. They're complicated, with lots of loose ends to tie up. They're coming eventually. You have unrealistic expectations for how fast justice works.

Actual events have not proved any of this, and my post was the most milquetoast critique of the American justice system in the 21st century. I completely reject that my expectations are "unrealistic", and my criticism is not merely about "abloo bloo why is this taking so long?" Trump has quite literally gotten away with MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF CRIME, and I'm only talking about the cases that have either already wrapped or were smothered in the cradle. American government, law, politicians, and for the most part population are content to let this person in particular do whatever he wants, when he wants, to whomever he wants, and no one has the loving balls and the authority at the same time to do anything about it. Period.

lol, pull your head out.

# ¿ May 15, 2023 18:41

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Fuschia tude posted:

As has already been mentioned, these would still happen even if he were found guilty and imprisoned immediately for the rest of his life. Prisoners can still communicate and lie in public. Prisoners can still run for office. Prisoners can still lead political parties. Prisoners can still fundraise. Nothing you are demanding happen as a result of his criminal trials can happen as a result of criminal trials in the United States. (Technically, a court might be able to prevent him from communicating certain things publicly, but judges almost always refuse to issue prior restraint orders in general, especially broad ones, not least because the Supreme Court has ruled that they must demonstrate inevitable, direct, immediate damage to the US as a result of that speech.)

You're right, that all sounds really stupid and not at all like a fair, functioning justice system, I agree.

# ¿ May 15, 2023 19:02

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Deteriorata posted:

Trump Criminal Trial Scheduled for March 2024

Mark your calendar.

lol I think I'll keep my calendar open and do literally anything else that day other than watch the American criminal justice system completely fail to hold a rich white man to account for the sixteen billionth time.

# ¿ May 23, 2023 21:48

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Grip it and rip it posted:

Please do keep us posted on all the things you intend to not do

Four years for his presidency, during which you don't even bother to investigate, and four years for actually building the felony case and making sure all of the necessary witnesses are reliable? It's a very atypical investigation so I imagine they double and triple checked everything to make sure it's airtight.

Cool, man, please definitely keep us updated with more stuff you imagine.

# ¿ May 23, 2023 22:46

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

I agree with their thesis, generally.

# ¿ May 24, 2023 17:44

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

Thanks for keeping us posted.

I'm sorry, who are you again?

# ¿ May 24, 2023 22:13

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

Are you seriously trying to mean girls me about dead comedy forum rep?

Cool.

Whatever you say, my dude. I don't even know who you are or what your point is, but keep fighting the good fight against people who post on forums.

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# ¿ May 24, 2023 22:53

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Always count on a conservative to vote against their own interests while simultaneously repeating some obviously disproved talking point about how it's not the GOP's fault.

# ¿ May 25, 2023 16:52

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

I think he just wants permission to hate people who make him uncomfortable and for a person in power to tell him all the scary things are bad and will go away, op.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2023 22:26

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Maybe Jan 6 was all of them.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 17:53

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

lol have fun, DoJ. They have to go root all around in their past and interview their whole families and such for that. What happens when they find out that one of them downloads movies illegally or smokes weed. Do they just not get clearance? Removed from the case? Kids' table in the courtroom?

# ¿ Jun 15, 2023 21:50

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 06:12

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Who's going to do anything about that?

# ¿ Jun 16, 2023 02:30

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