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Kith posted:
I just felt kind of empty not having a +1 upgrade to be researching in the interim. I'll just have to get used to it.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:11
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I tried the open beta and it's... fine? But how the hell are they planning to get anyone to buy a 1v1 competitive RTS, the deadest of the dead genres. They better have some big plans for single player content and alternative game modes.
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Feb 7, 2024 12:25
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Double Bill posted:I tried the open beta and it's... fine? But how the hell are they planning to get anyone to buy a 1v1 competitive RTS, the deadest of the dead genres. They better have some big plans for single player content and alternative game modes. The competitive part is free to play, but the campaign missions will cost money. RTS may be a small genre, but calling it dead is a big exaggeration.
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Feb 7, 2024 14:56
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The biggest games average like 17 years old or something, even if the scene is alive it's from a fan perspective more than dev. There have been more recent attempts - many if we include smaller indie titles - and we've seen many examples through history that snaller games can become huge if the interest is there and established developers aren't providing. Palworld being the most obvious recent example. So why didn't AoE4 revive the genre? Well, it has its issues, but so do most games. Will Stormgate buck the trend finally? Have my doubts but it would be cool. After watching more footage the past few days I'm still not into the artstyle though.
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Feb 7, 2024 15:16
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aoe 4 is doing decent now especially with new exps
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Feb 7, 2024 15:58
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Insurrectionist posted:The biggest games average like 17 years old or something, even if the scene is alive it's from a fan perspective more than dev. There have been more recent attempts - many if we include smaller indie titles - and we've seen many examples through history that snaller games can become huge if the interest is there and established developers aren't providing. Palworld being the most obvious recent example. So why didn't AoE4 revive the genre? Well, it has its issues, but so do most games. Honestly, i think what happened is the parts of RTS games that were appealing to people got put into a bunch of very different genres that do better at delivering the particular thing- people like Total War for the spectacle, or a bunch of city builders for that part, or mobas for very fine grained micromanagement, autobattlers for the feeling of doing RTS strats..
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Feb 7, 2024 16:56
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Panzeh posted:Honestly, i think what happened is the parts of RTS games that were appealing to people got put into a bunch of very different genres that do better at delivering the particular thing- people like Total War for the spectacle, or a bunch of city builders for that part, or mobas for very fine grained micromanagement, autobattlers for the feeling of doing RTS strats.. I know Total War: Warhammer made traditional RTS'es pretty redundant for me. You get RTS battles, but also grand strategy and management stuff, with the replayability of the Civilization games i.e. pretty much infinite.
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Feb 7, 2024 18:25
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I know I bring this up any time a new RTS comes out but a real big thing missing for me is an auto queue feature and I know I'm not alone. I just don't enjoy needing to keep up on production queues all the time I just want to have fun effectively controlling my army in battles. But these kinds of games are constantly just pulling my attention away from that to do the tedious stuff. I gave the competitive portion of the beta a try and it feels like I'm just playing Starcraft 2 in 2024 now. I was really hoping for some actual changes to the formula (like the above mentioned auto queue). I had my hopes up when they said they wanted to make these games more accessible to everyone but I guess that just means giving you a global build hotkey to make playing hotkey piano one key press shorter. Like why not go all the way and let me put something on a repeat build order? I almost couldn't believe that the production buildings still have a 5 unit limit like it's some sacred game design tenet that can't be changed. I might be mistaken but I'm almost sure that the 5 unit limit all the way from Brood Wars was a hardware limitation like many other quirks of that game were.
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Feb 8, 2024 15:44
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Had some fun with the demo, its not the most complex game but its scratching that Starcraft/Warcraft itch.
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Feb 8, 2024 17:52
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When I heard this game had WC3 style heroes and would have a coop mode I envisioned something like The Last Stand mode from Dawn of War 2. Instead it's like SC2 coop but with worse everything. Not a fan of the odd combo of WC3 hero + SC2 units. The only advantage over SC2 coop is you can play with a group of 3. I'm not sure what this game hopes to achieve by competing with SC2, it's not going to become the new competitive RTS, noone could make that game. Hopefully they add some more modes. Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 9, 2024 |
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Feb 9, 2024 00:43
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I think it will probably end up fine as long as their investors don’t force them to rush the launch. I think having co-op released as a deliberate part of the game will be super important. SC2 co-op was hugely popular at first and was only added when SC2 was already well past its prime. They have all of the right people working on the game so I’m looking forward to playing it at launch. I have zero interest in playing beta or donating to the game since the game is still clearly a long way off.
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Feb 9, 2024 02:06
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Brendan Rodgers posted:I'm not sure what this game hopes to achieve by competing with SC2, it's not going to become the new competitive RTS, noone could make that game. i think it hopes to achieve money and player #s imo any and all talk of 'the new competitive rts' is entirely premature
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Feb 9, 2024 02:16
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it's definitely premature but it's also definitely possible. there were a nonzero number of people who thought dota 2 would never get bigger than the original, and yet here we are
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Feb 9, 2024 07:20
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HallelujahLee posted:aoe 4 is doing decent now especially with new exps AOE 4 is honestly a great game it's just that RTS is a dead genre right now, and the complexity / APM / knowledge required to have interesting competitive play just doesn't really lend itself to modern e-sports / new audiences
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Feb 9, 2024 08:04
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I agree but i dont know if i would say rts is dead imo
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Feb 9, 2024 15:39
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RTSs aren't dead. If you look at all the rts games that are or were popular, all of them have strong single player campaigns and stories, easy access modding and mapmaking tools, and lots of options for non-competitive coop. That giant grant games guy is annoyingly correct. Modern RTSs just aren't focusing on these aspects even though they're clearly the most important things for keeping players long term, not pvp. And the longer you keep players engaged the more likely they are to get better at the game, play competitive modes, and filter up into esports.
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Feb 9, 2024 15:55
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finally tried the beta, seems decent imo this could be pretty good if they invest in a good campaign and coop which seems to be the case for coop anyway
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Feb 9, 2024 17:44
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DarkAvenger211 posted:I almost couldn't believe that the production buildings still have a 5 unit limit like it's some sacred game design tenet that can't be changed. I might be mistaken but I'm almost sure that the 5 unit limit all the way from Brood Wars was a hardware limitation like many other quirks of that game were. Whaaaaat the gently caress are you talking about? If you are queuing 5 units from your production buildings, than your macro is totally off. You need more buildings, not a longer queue. That's a macro 101 mistake. Double Bill posted:I tried the open beta and it's... fine? But how the hell are they planning to get anyone to buy a 1v1 competitive RTS, the deadest of the dead genres. They better have some big plans for single player content and alternative game modes. There is a quote from Blizzard, one DLC micro-transaction of a pony (?) in WOW made Blizzard more money than all sales of SC2 Wings of Liberty game. I believe that Frost Giant is going to be selling more co-op commanders, skins, voice packs, etc to keep the game profitable.
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Feb 9, 2024 18:55
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Fozzy The Bear posted:Whaaaaat the gently caress are you talking about? It depends on the game. C&C, for instance, let you queue stuff before the money got spent. Some games have the ability to set a repeated order to start production of the same unit once the one in production is built. Having a lengthier queue there isn't bad macro, it's just quality of life.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:07
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FoolyCharged posted:It depends on the game. C&C, for instance, let you queue stuff before the money got spent. Some games have the ability to set a repeated order to start production of the same unit once the one in production is built. Having a lengthier queue there isn't bad macro, it's just quality of life. Might as well be an auto-battler at that point.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:08
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Fozzy The Bear posted:Might as well be an auto-battler at that point. You're being obnoxious.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:13
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sirtommygunn posted:You're being obnoxious. RTS was perfected in Brood War and its all been downhill since then. 
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Feb 9, 2024 19:31
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My only real problem with the game is the units are kinda dull, mechanically and aesthetically. There's nothing that has that viscerally satisfying feel like siege tanks, zerglings and carriers and a few other units have. And the only guy that sticks in my mind as "Oh that's neat" is the guys that split into two smaller guys. Hopefully stuff added in full release is cool.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:33
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Fozzy The Bear posted:RTS was perfected in Brood War and its all been downhill since then. I don't entirely disagree with that but I do think other RTS games should try to be different and/or more accessible. Nobody is ever going to beat Brood War at being Brood War.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:37
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FoolyCharged posted:It depends on the game. C&C, for instance, let you queue stuff before the money got spent. Some games have the ability to set a repeated order to start production of the same unit once the one in production is built. Having a lengthier queue there isn't bad macro, it's just quality of life. Yeah exactly, this is what I meant. I get that people seem to like the constraint of instant resource spending and lack of auto queueing, I just don't really get it. If you're good at it and your opponent isn't then I guess that wins you games but I just find it more interesting to confront my opponents strategy and tactics as opposed to their lack of attention.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:39
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Yeah exactly, this is what I meant. I get that people seem to like the constraint of instant resource spending and lack of auto queueing, I just don't really get it. If you're good at it and your opponent isn't then I guess that wins you games but I just find it more interesting to confront my opponents strategy and tactics as opposed to their lack of attention. That's why I like Blizzard RTS's, there are so many things to worry about  and so many things to devote your attention and APM to.Each new Blizzard RTS that is released seems to make macro easier. You don't even need to micro your workers to different mineral patches in StormGate, its just one big mineral patch.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:46
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OP is reminding me of all the people on the Blizzard forums that were mortally offended when in the run up to sc2, it had workers automatically mining after being built rather than needing you to twitch back to base every 5 seconds to get the new one moving.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:51
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FoolyCharged posted:OP is reminding me of all the people on the Blizzard forums that were mortally offended when in the run up to sc2, it had workers automatically mining after being built rather than needing you to twitch back to base every 5 seconds to get the new one moving. Correct, that is part of the strategy that made BroodWar great, there is sooo much you have to manually manage. It made for a very daunting player experience, but a wonderful viewer's experience. When you know how frustrating the game is to play, but then you watch pro's and everything seems to be working perfectly. Its a different game though, I don't expect StormGate to be the same. We all have parts we enjoy/dislike. I personally dislike micro'ing individual units and enjoy more the macro/city building. Everyone's going to have their own preferences.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:57
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Ya know, it surprises me that no one has tried to make either a Majesty like or a Myth like RTS. Both have exactly half the basic starcraft formula so people could focus on the part they like.
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Feb 9, 2024 20:22
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imo there's plenty of market for various rts elements and no doubt there's a way to put them together into something that would sell and be popular. idk if stormgate will pull that off but they seem to be doing some things right in that regard. I'm personally skeptical that there's an especially big market for extremely intense 1v1 pvp rts, which isn't to say zero market for it, but I highly doubt that that is enough to financially carry the game compared to making a just generally fun to play, easy to start rts that is a really good coop or team game first.
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Feb 9, 2024 22:18
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There's about a dozen custom map games that show up under different names in every single rts that allows custom map settings and the first RTS that ships with at least a couple of them built in will be the next Big One I think. But yeah as someone who's been forced to come to terms with the fact that I'm a major casual 1v1 is the least appealing game mode. I need at least three teammates to hide behind. To combine a gardening and tf2 metaphor, if you want the fruits of highly competitive 6v6 matches you need a fertile soil of 32 player instant respawn 24/7 2fort to keep the player base high. Whitenoise Poster fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 9, 2024 |
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Feb 9, 2024 22:51
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm personally skeptical that there's an especially big market for extremely intense 1v1 pvp rts, which isn't to say zero market for it, but I highly doubt that that is enough to financially carry the game compared to making a just generally fun to play, easy to start rts that is a really good coop or team game first. I think they are hoping the CO-OP and 3v3 modes will pay for the 1v1 portion. e: Co-op is already in the beta, so its not like they are releasing that at a later time. its going to already be in the game when it "ships". Fozzy The Bear fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 9, 2024 |
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Feb 9, 2024 22:53
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Yeah I think we slipped from talking about this game specifically towards the genre as a whole. Starting off right away with co op stuff is a good sign.
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Feb 9, 2024 23:04
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Mikojan posted:AOE 4 is honestly a great game Is AoE4 a good game now? It was dogshit at launch. Did they change stuff so that games end before an hour?
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Feb 9, 2024 23:06
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I wonder why they picked 3v3 as the special player count for coop and the future team games? 3vAI was kinda hectic in stormgate coop, but 2vAI in SC2 coop felt pretty good to me.
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Feb 9, 2024 23:58
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Didn't it also have dogshit anemic ai in the campaign as well? Can we see any of stormgate's ai in the beta? That's pretty important for the single player/coop stuff. Fake edit: Also, I just realized how uncomfortably close to stormfront the game's name is.
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Feb 9, 2024 23:59
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Revitalized posted:I wonder why they picked 3v3 as the special player count for coop and the future team games? more players means less personal responsibility. it's much easier to carry if one person leaves than in SC2 coop where if your partner leaves then you're probably doomed unless you're very very good
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Feb 10, 2024 00:03
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Revitalized posted:I wonder why they picked 3v3 as the special player count for coop and the future team games? idk their reasoning specifically, but 3 or 4 player team games are pretty ubiquitous these days and its a number of players that both diffuses personal responsibility while also allowing for individual impactful play. plus once you have 3 or 4 you're past playing with a friend to probably having several friends in a discord call just shooting the poo poo. it's way more social than duo gaming
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Feb 10, 2024 02:43
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Airing your Stormgate tournament during IEM Katowice doesn’t seem like like the best idea, although I’m sure that Nathanias appreciates someone hiring him again after his giant blunder. They definitely need to improve the coloring on Infernal vs Infernal matches, it was sometimes hard to tell which player was which.
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Feb 10, 2024 21:27
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I've been playing the open Beta co-op. The beta is open even if you didn't participate in the kickstarter. The Infernal race is the new Protoss. Macro is a joke. Imagine warpgate but with larva. Forget to macro and your money has built up? No problem, your "warpgates" have multiple charges and you just spam out units that pop out instantly. The previous posters who didn't like paying attention to your macro cycles, worry no more. My APM is probably 40? Maybe less, there is just not much to do. I made 2 of each production building, maybe 6 buildings in all, and that pretty much was it. This made me miss playing zerg, always made me feel like I need four hands to keep up with injects/macro/micro/scouting/etc. I hope the third race is more interesting.
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Feb 10, 2024 21:33
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