Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang


TL;DR: Play Civilization & Total War during an alien invasion of the solar system. Game is out now!

Terra Invicta is a game developped by Pavonis Interactive. You might have heard of them for their popular Long War mod for XCOM and XCOM2 (they also did some other mods ahead of XCOM2's release). The game was funded through a typical Kickstarter campaign that successfully reached its humble $20,000 goal under six hours in September 2020. They blew way past that later on and reached a final funding of $216,065. This probably helped a lot keeping the project alive for the following three years.



Alright but what is this game about? Well imagine if an alien spaceship crashed on Earth today. Everybody saw it, there's no way to burry the news, everyone knows We're Not Alone and that there are Aliens on Earth. It's not a full on invasion or anything, it's very low key and honestly that's probably one of the appealing side of the game.

Or let's just quote the developper:

Pavonis Interactive posted:

The campaign begins as an alien probe is detected approaching present-day Earth. Unknown to humanity, an alien force has arrived in the icy Kuiper Belt and has begun mining a dwarf planet to build its military capabilities. Its first probes carry infiltrators who intend to subvert Earth’s governments and prevent them from mounting a joint defense against the impending invasion.



At the beginning of a campaign after a UFO has crashed in Siberia. Icons mark the locations of councilors, armies and critical resources.
With Earth’s nations unable to form a coherent plan to address the alien arrival, transnational groups of like-minded political, military and scientific leaders develop covert channels to coordinate a response. With the aliens' motives uncertain, factions emerge, driven by hope, fear or greed.

Now that mankind knows, a lot of funds are going into researching... a lot. The research tree is huge. You can think of Terra Invicta as a sort of Civilization meets Total War where different factions compete, but there's an external actor - the aliens - that you have to consider too. They won't be too prominent in the first few years, but they have goals of their own - clearly not peace - and will try to destabilize the world in anyway they can. Disrupt governments, spread unrest, and the developer even mentions "spreading aggressive megafauna."



Speaking of factions. There are 7, each with different goals and agenda.



Some will want to collaborate with the aliens, some to work with them, some to resist, some to outright get the gently caress out of earth, etc. You can play any of those and it should affect how the game plays, as well as the win condition for the campaign obviously.



The gameplay is, as mentioned earlier, very Grand Strategy-like. It takes time to do anything. You have a few agents at the beginning of the game and their goal is to control countries so they'll support your cause. This in turns gives you ressources to build poo poo, raise armies, and even, yes, go to space. Oh, yeah, the game doesn't feature only earth and its nations. It features the whole drat solar system. You can colonize Mars. You can harvest water from Europa. But most of it will be geopolitics. Pavonis claims they have spent a lot of times on systems that simulate international relations. For instance, France and Germany are pretty friendly to each other when they need to, so it was very easy for me to make them merge into a single country. Benelux should follow soon. But making Russia and the United States allies might take a little bit more work.

You can also start the game at different stage of human history. This will have an impact on the relationship between nations and their characteristics. One scenario takes place during the Cold War. Another one in the far future. The default one in the current era.



A goon mentioned this Let's Play from a competent player if people want to dive in a bit more.

This is for now. I'll update the OP as more people comment on it.

Furism fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Sep 26, 2022

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang
Meta-stuff.

The impenetrable tech tree has been penetrated. You can see it in all its splendor here: https://rookiv.github.io/terra-invicta/

Some tips from goons!

BattleMaster posted:



Up is thrust, right is exhaust velocity and therefore delta-v. In the upper right is where you want to be because having both as high as possible lets you burn extra fuel to get places faster, because the ship can accelerate more and for longer periods of time during the trip. A lot of the fusion and antimatter drives (go by color and shape of symbol) can get you passable delta-v and cruise acceleration.


The fun trap choices:

Firefly Torch - I'd argue not quite a trap because you can research it faster than most of the good options, letting you get a head start on long range combat. King poo poo of exhaust velocity but energy use is through the roof and efficiency is poor so you need to spend thousands of tons on a radiator, making your ships heavy and negating some of the advantage. My first generation of long range combat ships used it and I wasn't disappointed although it was replaced. Poor combat maneuverability due to low thrust and high mass resulting in poor turning speed, since turning is based solely on mass as far as I can tell.

Protium Converter Torch - Kind of a trap option. Has the same caveats as the Firefly torch making your ship heavy as poo poo and slow to turn, so while you get to fling dreadnoughts around at 4G they can't do much with it other than flee. Good strategic speed and though.

Neutron Flux Torch - By far the fastest to research out of all the drives here, requiring barely any global research and council research by comparison, and great characteristics. Each tank of fuel contains 5 fissiles so it will be expensive though - if that's not an issue it's actually a great choice if you need high thrust.

Pion Torch - Legitimately the best drive in the game - exceedingly high efficiency and specific power of the reactor resulting in a light ship - if not for the fact that it burns an exceedingly expensive total conversion 50% antimatter/50% matter fuel mix. You can get from Earth to Pluto in 5 weeks while training for the final fight under two times Earth gravity and while burning tens of millions of cash units worth of antimatter. I made a ship that can do this for the final objective of the Resistance and it took years to make the antimatter to fuel it.




The actual good stuff:

Daedalus Torch - recommended by many people. Good thrust and fuel efficiency.

Protium Inertial Torch - Don't be deceived by the logarithmic scale. The thrust is lower but the fuel efficiency is better. Requires the expensive Proton-Proton Fusion global research, though.

Boron Inertial Torch - Yet less thrust, best efficiency out of the drives that don't have serious caveats. Note that it uses 5 water and 5 volatiles per fuel tank instead of pure water.

Note how all three of these come from the inertial confinement fusion tech path, which has a very efficient reactor at the end of its chain. And unlike the Protium Converter Torch, the drives themselves don't have terrible power usage and efficiency. Concentrating on this path is probably the optimal route.


The mediocre but workable stuff:

Zeta Helion, Mag Protium Fusion, Triton Reflex, Advanced Helion Torus, Icarus Torch - If you went down the respective tech paths and these are more easily available than the better drives, these will get you where you want to go. They're not as fast or as efficient as the others but they don't have any caveats.

Advanced Antimatter Plasma - Gives excellent thrust. The fuel cost isn't bad if have supercolliders set up, but the delta-v per tank is kind of bad on larger ships. It's fine for local defense forces or small ships, if you're even making those at the point you can research this.


I tested the above drives with my favorite dreadnought design. It has 8 Keelback missile launchers, 3 240 cm UV phaser cannons, Exotic Nanowire Battery, Tin Droplet Radiator, ECM Mark III, Repair Bay, Component Armor, 3 Magazines, 10/10/100 Adamantane armor.

In my current game I didn't have Icarus Torch or Advanced Helion Torus show up so I can't show those off.



From top to bottom:

Neutron Flux Torch x6, Salt Water Core Reactor II, 200 fuel tanks
Advanced Antimatter Plasma Core Drive x6, Antimatter Plasma Core Reactor III*, 386 fuel tanks
Pion Torch x6, Antimatter Beam Core Reactor, 34 fuel tanks
Zeta Helion Drive x6, Flow-Stabilized Z-Pinch Fusion Reactor, 194 fuel tanks
Firefly Torch x1, Flow-Stabilized Z-Pinch Fusion Reactor, 10 fuel tanks
Mag Protium Fusion Drive x6, Hybrid Confinement Fusion Reactor III, 97 fuel tanks
Triton Reflex Drive x6, Mirror Cell Fusion Reactor III, 425 fuel tanks
Protium Converter Torch x1, Inertial Confinement Terawatt Fusion reactor III, 195 fuel tanks
Boron Inertial Torch x6, Inertial Confinement Terawatt Fusion reactor III, 29 fuel tanks
Protium Inertial Torch x6, Inertial Confinement Terawatt Fusion reactor III, 53 fuel tanks
Daedalus Torch x6, Inertial Confinement Terawatt Fusion reactor III, 61 fuel tanks

*All three have the same name but I used the best one

So king poo poo of acceleration is the Pion Torch but you need 170 units of antimatter to make it happen - I have about that much after years of making the stuff. Protium Converter Torch is the next best acceleration but the fuel efficiency is bad and it takes about 6000 extra metal for the radiator. plus it can't turn for poo poo.

Best fuel efficiency is the Firefly Torch requiring only 10 tanks of water for 2k kps delta-v but you need to spend about 2.5k extra metal on the radiator. If things are such that you're low on water and high on metal it's not a bad choice. Just keep in mind you're not going to get any sort of mobility in combat, not even in a straight line.

This isn't a fair test for the Advanced Antimatter Plasma Core Drive because it works better with small ships or with shorter ranges, but it's worth noting that the ship gets 2.1g combat acceleration. Likewise for the Neutron Flux Torch - 1.4g combat acceleration but it's not so hot on a big ship that needs long ranges.

Boron Inertial Torch, Protium Inertial Torch, and Daedalus Torch follow the acceleration versus fuel efficiency trend you'd expect from the char.

Triton Reflex and Zeta Helion don't compare well to the others here but those are low-end techs. You may use the Zeta Helion on the way to the Firefly Torch if you're in a pinch and need ships immediately.

Mag Protium Fusion is alright but not stellar. An advantage of it that may manifest in later updates is that it has greater freedom of reactor usage, given that it lets you use any magnetic fusion reactor type. If the reactors are distinguished more this may be an advantage.

Pion Torch lol.

Confused about engines?

BattleMaster posted:

Because I'm an IRL nuclear engineer and a weirdo who obsesses over this stuff, I did a better number analysis of the high end drives since a lot of the stuff around doesn't tell the whole story. (Aces! Another loving BattleMaster talks about space engines post)

These drives here:



For my test, I set up a Gunship with one drive, the best reactor, one fuel tank, a Tin Droplet Radiator, no battery, no armor, and nothing else. So adding stuff makes the representative performance worse. However, the reactor and radiator weights scale linearly so you can get an idea of what engines are worth adding more of.



-Obviously the Pion Torch is the best drive in the game but lol at the fuel cost. Gonna say it again though, there's no other choice if you absolutely need to get a small payload to the Kuiper Belt in under two months.

-Neutron Flux Torch requires a reactor with bad specific power (mass per power) so the reactor is heavy, but the efficiency is very good so the radiator is light. It has the next best thrust while not being quite as bad to fuel, but 5 fissiles per tank still isn't great.

-Antimatter Advanced Plasma Core Drive has great acceleration, requires a moderately big radiator, and the fuel cost isn't so bad as long as you have any antimatter production.

-The above three excel if you need a small ship to get far places very fast, like a troop transport, councilor transport, or colony ship. Not worth it on larger ships or mass-produced combatants.

-Here comes a new trap option! Icarus Torch requires a big reactor and a big radiator. No, I didn't flip it with the Icarus Drive. The Icarus Torch appears to be strictly worse than its predecessor.

-Protium Converter Torch and Firefly Torch suffer from severe radiator-itis. Using more than one of these drives is madness. However, at least whatever else you add to the ship won't lower the acceleration or delta-v per tank much, because it will be tiny in comparison. This means that the Protium Converter Torch will get you places faster than anything that uses only water for fuel, and the Firefly Torch will have killer fuel efficiency even on big warships. But the metal cost of the radiator is considerable and the mass means good luck turning in combat, if you care about that.

-You can see why the Daedalus torch is the best here, with great performance while requiring small reactors and radiators. Protium Inertial Torch and Boron Inertial Torch have lower acceleration and better delta-v per tank and have even lower reactor needs. Anything you add to the ship will easily outweigh the power plant stuff, but these things still compare well to other options even on laden warships. However, the Boron Inertial Torch requires 5 volatiles per fuel tank.

-Mag Protium is also compatible with Mirror Cell and Hybrid Confinement reactors. Power efficiency and thus radiator size is worse with Mirror Cells, and better with Hybrid Confinement, adding or removing 500 tons respectively from the radiator. While it's easily beaten out by the Daedalus Torch, it doesn't require the small amount of exotics to build so maybe that's worth putting up with the relative mediocrity and huge research cost... maybe.

-Inertial Confinement Fusion is the clear way to spend your research on. However, the Triton Reflex has by far the lowest research cost of ANY of the ones here. By like 100k to 500k (the Advanced Helion Reflex is only 50k more for more acceleration but worse delta-v.) IMO not a bad way to go for a first fusion drive if you need something to travel very long distances, since a lot of its prerequisites are shared by the better options here.

Furism fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Oct 26, 2022

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
Huh. This looks way less scattered than some of their kickstarter information made it seem. Might keep an eye out.

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang

Ravenfood posted:

Huh. This looks way less scattered than some of their kickstarter information made it seem. Might keep an eye out.

I found the demo to be pretty good, not janky at all and overall well done. It did end up crashing after something like 3 hours, which is a shame since there's no save in the demo. Some other people played way more than that so I'll put the crash on account of my aging PC.

The tutorial probably needs some refining though. There are a lot of systems in the game, nations have "stats" and it's not initially perfectly clear what action impacts what, or what thresholds are adequate to attempt an action (like trying to control a country). I think this is simply because it's a fairly complicated and intricate game and players should not expect the win recipe on a platter. Nerds who like to figure out complex systems should have a blast though (and then explain to us mortals how to play the game optimally).

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

I think it looks neat but I'm real ambivalent about some of the issues around balance and pacing.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead
Sounds a bit like Reverse Shadows of Forbidden Gods, so I'm sold.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

The demo is kind of a mess. Let me just quote the post I made in the 4x thread.

Demiurge4 posted:

So I have some thoughts after stewing on it for a day and I want to talk about what I think are some basic design flaws in the game. This mostly stems from what I see as them trying to do but failing, or what it looks like they abandoned but left in the framework for. I also want to address my earlier comment about this being a turn based game.

Nations:
The game lets each faction completely control nation states. This is kind of at odds with a bunch mechanics which I'll get into, but it also means that the game is basically making each faction the illuminati. Individual nations do not have agency and are just passively there to be controlled or ignored by the player. This means certain areas of the map are more valuable than others and it also means those less valuable areas are actually completely worthless for various mechanical reasons. Where this is at odds with game mechanics is how your faction only gets a pittance of a nations output. If you control the entirety of the USA's control points, you get a vanishingly small percentage of their boost output and the rest vanishes into the ether.

What appears to me to have been the intention is that each nation would attempt to get into space on its own or have their own geopolitical goals and you would leech off this, but the nations don't do anything without faction input. There's a mechanic for you to create super states later on by unlocking various techs but most of them are hard or impossible to do. For example there's an early option for an east African republic involving Tanzania getting claims on a bunch of other nations, and I tried to peacefully do this by controlling the nations but I never got the option to actually unite and even if I did the area is completely worthless economically.

There's also the initial existence of the two space stations at game start that I haven't really looked at but to me that seems to have been an intended baseline for the nations getting into space.

Agents: So I talked about how the game is turn based and what I mean by this is that there are 24 assignment phases through a year, 2 per month. The binary nature of this interaction means that you are almost entirely just setting the job, pressing space and then sitting there clicking popups until the next phase is up and watching the planet spin. The only other actions you can do here is space related or to slightly tweak control points, set research projects and direct investment in nations.

Based on the daily ticks being a thing, I think the intention here was that you would assign an agent to a nation with a job and they would passively acquire information or boost various parts of a nations output. For example the stabilize nation command is a success/fail chance with 0.5 unrest reduction on success or 1.0 on a critical success regardless of agent skill levels. The better option in my mind here would have been to just get a daily reduction while assigned based on the skill level of the agent.

Orgs are also incredibly unbalanced when counted against national outputs. There's a repeatable tech available later on that costs 1000 research points on the first go, and 2000 on the second and so fourth. It grants you a single org that you have to equip and gives you 0.25 boost per month. There's also various unique orgs that grant 1.25 boost per month, an extra engineering project, research points and a mission control for 3 admin score instead. Those orgs meant that I just built an agent combo to investigate enemy agents and hostile takeover those orgs because you get to choose one from the factions entire org pool.

Another flaw with the assignment phases was that once I was 4 years into the game I wasn't doing anything with them anymore, not really. The assignment phases became a chore because I felt I'd done everything I wanted to do on earth and was just trying to get into space.

The one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism:
Space is a mess. I talked earlier about the stock ships being poo poo but this is also true for the first few tiers of tech. I had solid fission II and the nova and dumbo engines available to me and I still wasn't able to design a ship capable of doing anything unless I wanted to spend hundreds of water on propellant. I made a small ship meant to intercept alien ships in earth orbit and gave it 2x it's own weight in propellant and after undocking it wasn't even able to change its orbit to match the alien ship. I think the basic problem with this is that boost is precious early on but becomes absolutely worthless once you actually get the mining set up, because any mining output goes straight into a magical warehouse that's reachable from anywhere. There's no convoys or transport mechanic despite the ship designer very specifically having a transport design class.

I'm going to chalk this one down to the game still being incredibly early in its design (despite promising to release the full game a year ago on their kickstarter) and the space part just being a framework. It's just odd they'd leave it in like this for the demo when that is absolutely the part people would rush for.

Again I think the ideal implementation here would have been for the various nations to establish their mining ops in space and you as a faction only being able to get a trickle and influencing the expansion in various ways.

Research:
A lot of the techs have cool themes to them and the text descriptions indicate they vastly revolutionize human society. In practice they're just percentage modifiers that don't do anything in practice. Creating civilian photonic computers that will vastly revolutionize computing on Earth? Here's a 5% boost to economy increases. Cybernetic implants available to the general populace? Here's a +1 to agent scores. You created the technology to cheaply and efficiently turn carbon dioxide into oxygen? 5%. None of these make sense and none of them are priced fairly in terms of research points. Balance is all over the place, worse some of them are just straight up bad or obvious trap choices meant to help the aliens. There's a tech that lets you make a bunch of nations into smaller independent states, the Servants researched this one on one of my runs which makes perfect sense. What doesn't make sense is why I'm getting a bunch of project options to turn minor third world states into even smaller ones, I don't get it.

Conclusion:
Terra Invicta is a loving mess. There's the framework of a good game in there but the implementation is incredibly shoddy and there's obvious patch fixes everywhere. The UI is a trash fire and there's half baked or non-functional features everywhere. I don't have a lot of hopes for improvement either because the devs are either lazy or incompetent, in that their solution for releasing a demo was to just dump the entire game out (15gb) and just implement a time limit. At the same time they don't let you save and it's just what the gently caress.

I'll probably keep playing when they release though.

I also made a quickstart mod that speeds the game up a bit so you can see more in the demo. And what I saw wasn't really that great. The space layer is very incomplete and doesn't feel well integrated into the main game. I think a lot of core game systems would need a complete re-design in order for the pacing to feel good.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God
I played a lot of the demo - 65 hours according to Steam, but that includes leaving it to run overnight a few times because of the lack of a save. I came to two big conclusions:

1) This game isn't for everyone
2) This game is extremely for me.


Demiurge4 posted:

The game lets each faction completely control nation states. This is kind of at odds with a bunch mechanics which I'll get into, but it also means that the game is basically making each faction the illuminati. Individual nations do not have agency and are just passively there to be controlled or ignored by the player. This means certain areas of the map are more valuable than others and it also means those less valuable areas are actually completely worthless for various mechanical reasons. Where this is at odds with game mechanics is how your faction only gets a pittance of a nations output. If you control the entirety of the USA's control points, you get a vanishingly small percentage of their boost output and the rest vanishes into the ether.

A lot of your points seem kind of uncharitable, so if I may :words: as far as I can tell if you fully control all of the US points you do get all of their boost, research, mission control, etc. It's true you can't divert the entire government revenue stream into your coffers but that kind of makes sense to me, since you're supposed to be a mysterious group controlling from the shadows. Also, with how the economic system works the amount of funding you can direct is proportionately higher in smaller countries, which I think both fits the theme (you can be manipulating elected politicians in the US, or effectively running a bunch of poor African nations) which helps make less developed nations more attractive - you can build a whole lot more boost with a dozen poor nations than with the US, despite them both having effectively the same "cost" to control, though the US will be more cost effective for research points.

Similarly you can unite two countries you both control if one has claims on the other, though it's a slow process - you can also unite them faster by conquest, though if the other country has nukes be sure you control its government as well first. Ground combat's also another thing to be doing between the mission assignment phases you mention later, and sometimes a very important one - I had at least one game where the Servants and Humanity first started really clobbering the planet with ground forces.

quote:

Orgs are also incredibly unbalanced when counted against national outputs. There's a repeatable tech available later on that costs 1000 research points on the first go, and 2000 on the second and so fourth. It grants you a single org that you have to equip and gives you 0.25 boost per month. There's also various unique orgs that grant 1.25 boost per month, an extra engineering project, research points and a mission control for 3 admin score instead. Those orgs meant that I just built an agent combo to investigate enemy agents and hostile takeover those orgs because you get to choose one from the factions entire org pool.

Orgs are incredibly powerful, but the limited number of slots to control them means you can't ignore nation based production. Even with the somewhat rare orgs that boost administration (and thus increase your org capacity) you're still limited to 15 total orgs and a max of 25 levels per councilor.

quote:

Another flaw with the assignment phases was that once I was 4 years into the game I wasn't doing anything with them anymore, not really. The assignment phases became a chore because I felt I'd done everything I wanted to do on earth and was just trying to get into space.

This seems less like an issue with how assignments work and more pacing that needs some balancing. It might also have something to do with the demo limitations - I too felt that eventually the Earth portion felt kind of static, but a lot of that is probably because with a 7 year limit it didn't feel worth it too still be working on building up your base on Earth 5 years in. With a full 20-30 year game run trying to expand your influence on Earth will probably feel important much later into the game.

quote:

Space is a mess. I talked earlier about the stock ships being poo poo but this is also true for the first few tiers of tech. I had solid fission II and the nova and dumbo engines available to me and I still wasn't able to design a ship capable of doing anything unless I wanted to spend hundreds of water on propellant. I made a small ship meant to intercept alien ships in earth orbit and gave it 2x it's own weight in propellant and after undocking it wasn't even able to change its orbit to match the alien ship. I think the basic problem with this is that boost is precious early on but becomes absolutely worthless once you actually get the mining set up, because any mining output goes straight into a magical warehouse that's reachable from anywhere. There's no convoys or transport mechanic despite the ship designer very specifically having a transport design class.

I didn't have your problems with ship design - I was able to make early tech ships with solid core fission reactors and NERVA propulsion that could get around Earth orbit reasonably well and do some alien fighting with only a dozen fuel tanks or so - and you can do even better if you build them already in low earth orbit where the aliens do their reconnaissance missions, since then you only need about 300-400 m/s delta-v for an intercept. I designed my ships with 6km/s delta-v and it took about 3.8k to drop them from my shipyard in intermediate orbit to LEO.

I do agree with you that boost becomes almost worthless after getting your first space mines set up, a fact I really hope they change before release - ideally both a space based economy and going all in on building up Earth nations should be workable strategies. Even if that change doesn't happen officially, it's the kind of thing that should hopefully be moddable.

quote:

I'm going to chalk this one down to the game still being incredibly early in its design (despite promising to release the full game a year ago on their kickstarter) and the space part just being a framework. It's just odd they'd leave it in like this for the demo when that is absolutely the part people would rush for.

In the developers' defense, the space parts work just fine mechanically, they just need some balancing, and balancing is often one of the last things done in a developer cycle. So I'm a bit more optimistic about what we see in the demo. And even then a lot of things you seem to feel are issues (like techs that give +5% economic growth or whatever) I honestly don't see the issue with.

quote:

Terra Invicta is a loving mess. There's the framework of a good game in there but the implementation is incredibly shoddy and there's obvious patch fixes everywhere. The UI is a trash fire and there's half baked or non-functional features everywhere. I don't have a lot of hopes for improvement either because the devs are either lazy or incompetent, in that their solution for releasing a demo was to just dump the entire game out (15gb) and just implement a time limit. At the same time they don't let you save and it's just what the gently caress.

I don't believe this is correct, as several kickstarter backers have mentioned large chunks of the game were removed from the demo, including a lot of the alien stuff. I'm not sure where you got the idea there was nothing else which you used as the basis for arguing the developers were lazy or incompentent, but I never heard it. Nor did I encounter any half baked or nonfunctional features.

Overall I seem to have had a much better experience than you with the demo. I didn't use a mod to massively boost my progress but if large chunks of the endgame were removed for the demo that might have given you an incorrect impression of the state of the game.

Bremen fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jun 22, 2022

Arven
Sep 23, 2007
Is the demo no longer playable on steam?

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

Arven posted:

Is the demo no longer playable on steam?

I'm afraid not, it was part of Steam's demo week event.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

Conceptually this is the game I've always wanted, and I even like Long War. But I could not penetrate the demo. Beyond the abysmal text-dump tutorial that had big paragraphs explaining various UI buttons you might only ever click once and explaining zero percent of how to play the game or what to do, there was absolutely nothing clicking with me or feeling fun or intriguing about it. There was not a single memorable moment or engaging piece of gameplay, it all felt like an abstracted and poorly-thought-out board game. I've never lost enthusiasm for a game so fast. This stuff is just not fun to do when it's not supplemental to some other core gameplay, like tactical strategy battles from x-com. If they made this exact same game and only used it as the strategic layer of an X-Com clone I would be all-in, but as-is it felt incredibly bland and unexciting.


e: I have this exact same sentiment for the Crusader Kings series so take that as you will, I guess "Grand Strategy" as a genre is just not what I want it to be, they always ends up being diplomacy puzzle games instead of strategy games.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jun 22, 2022

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Okay hear me out here. Put the card system from Fate of the World into Terra Invicta and use that for nation interactions instead of the pip system. You get more granular control and the amount of cards you can play is directly based off of the control points you control in that nation. Effect scales on economy size and population.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God
I liked Fate of the World but I think that would work better for a very different game than Terra Invicta.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Bremen posted:

I played a lot of the demo - 65 hours according to Steam, but that includes leaving it to run overnight a few times because of the lack of a save. I came to two big conclusions:

1) This game isn't for everyone
2) This game is extremely for me.

Yep, same. Watched Perun's LP of the demo, and that got me started as well. I did crash after 3~4 hours too, but from what I played have me salivating for the release.

Arven
Sep 23, 2007
So if you downloaded the demo on steam you can still run the executable from the folder and play .

I've put about 5 hours in and oh boy, this game is very much for me.


The only real complaint I have is the Defend Interests mission. The AI being AI can keep track of all of their countries perfectly and bounce councilors around to their countries and keep them permanently secure, while as a player you have to try to do this manually and it's extremely tedious. The AI beat me to taking all of the launch sites in the big countries while I was starting out so I decided to try to unify Africa, and it just turned into a never ending game of whack-a-mole of 3 different nations being purged back and forth every turn.

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.

deep dish peat moss posted:

Conceptually this is the game I've always wanted, and I even like Long War. But I could not penetrate the demo. Beyond the abysmal text-dump tutorial that had big paragraphs explaining various UI buttons you might only ever click once and explaining zero percent of how to play the game or what to do, there was absolutely nothing clicking with me or feeling fun or intriguing about it. There was not a single memorable moment or engaging piece of gameplay, it all felt like an abstracted and poorly-thought-out board game. I've never lost enthusiasm for a game so fast. This stuff is just not fun to do when it's not supplemental to some other core gameplay, like tactical strategy battles from x-com. If they made this exact same game and only used it as the strategic layer of an X-Com clone I would be all-in, but as-is it felt incredibly bland and unexciting.

Yeah, same. It was just boring for me, 90% waiting for incremental resource increases with nothing really cool happening. I was all excited for realistic space missions and all that KSP-adjacent stuff, but it seems like I have to play 100hrs of some spreadsheet simulator first. No thanks.

RattiRatto
Jun 26, 2014

:gary: :I'd like to borrow $200M
:whatfor:
:gary: :To make vidya game
I have got about 4h in the demo and I agree this game is not for everyone.
There are indeed quite a few rough edges and some untapped potentials, but I have indeed enjoyed the experience. I generally agree with 50% of the problems raised above.
The team which developed the long war mod has a good reputation for keeping the mod alive with many updates along the years, so i expect something similar here
Generally I am positive for where this will go and I'll probably jump on it when it launches

Ego Trip
Aug 28, 2012

A tenacious little mouse!


Sad I missed this.
This will either be extremely my jam or drive me batty.

Hope they balance the starts. From what I've seen there's massive randomness in how good your starting minions are.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

Ego Trip posted:

Sad I missed this.
This will either be extremely my jam or drive me batty.

Hope they balance the starts. From what I've seen there's massive randomness in how good your starting minions are.

I believe it was in fact balanced during the demo period to force both starting counselors to have control nation and decent persuasion.

Another less obvious aspect of the game is that a slow start seems like it's going to be less punishing than in most strategy games. A large part of the research is the global techs that all factions contribute to, so if all the highly educated industrialized nations get grabbed by the other factions while you're struggling with a poor start, the overall research rate stays pretty similar. And initially the aliens aren't really attacking overtly so you don't need to rush a space fleet to defend Earth or anything, as long as you're secure enough the other Earth factions don't try to invade you. The biggest thing is getting into space soon enough to claim at least one or two good space mining sites and it's a big solar system.

I'm still not sure if the "develop Africa and South America and then unify them into superpowers" strat is going to be anywhere near optimal, but I think it might be playable for the above reasons.

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation

I was streaming this the other day and the most AMAZING agent was available for hire. Check this guy out:



I really don't know what the best thing here is. The hairstyle/glasses/windows xp background combo. The 'fixer' title. The name. The terrible stats.

I just know this guy is a self styled fixer, a true citizen freeholder type dude. I wish I had hired him.

The aliens wouldn't have stood a chance.

HYJINKS SILVERHART

Phrosphor fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jun 23, 2022

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS
That guy sounds like he cosplays being a character from Shadowrun in his mother's basement.

Arven
Sep 23, 2007

Bremen posted:

I'm still not sure if the "develop Africa and South America and then unify them into superpowers" strat is going to be anywhere near optimal, but I think it might be playable for the above reasons.

If nothing else the game takes pity on you and gives you a +1.5 boost/month +8 mission control if you don't have any significant launch capability after two years.

Ego Trip
Aug 28, 2012

A tenacious little mouse!


Bremen posted:

I believe it was in fact balanced during the demo period to force both starting counselors to have control nation and decent persuasion.

I didn't realize the demo was put until too late, but I saw a lp or stream where someone had like 6 and 1 for starting persuasion.

Plenty of time to balance or fix that. Or mod it.

KlavoHunter
Aug 4, 2006
"Intelligence indicates that our enemy is using giant cathedral ships. Research divison reports that we can adapt this technology for our use. Begin researching giant cathedral ships immediately."
I think the part where there was no savegame may have been a marketing gimmick to 'force' players to play a poo poo-ton of their game. :haw:


I didn't play the demo, but I am looking forward to the full game! Go Project Exodus!

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Bremen posted:

I liked Fate of the World but I think that would work better for a very different game than Terra Invicta.

Wonder if any of the concepts or actions from that game could work in this one. There's so few "Davos WEF Agenda 21" games out there, which is surprising because world simulator would be the natural progression from nation simulator as far as grand strategy goes.

Tim Pawlenty
Jun 3, 2006
Really loving this game. The space combat layer I have some concerns about relating to the enemy AI and hopefully in the full game and further down the timeline it's a self solving problem, the aliens sent one battleship class ship after I wrecked their scouts in orbit and I was able to pop it. If they sent more than one at a time I'm sure I'd have trouble but they didn't do that in the demo timeline.

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


is this like x-com if it was just the geoscape? that sounds kinda like a nightmare

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang

juggalo baby coffin posted:

is this like x-com if it was just the geoscape? that sounds kinda like a nightmare

It's like if a group of nerds wanted to play only the Geoscape in XCOM, but found it too easy and shallow, and spent 3 years making their own version of it. This game is exactly what you'd expect to come out of that. It'll be extremely NOT to some people taste, and it'll be extremely to some other people taste.

Watching the LP I'm starting to understand how it works but some of it seems a little micromanag-ey. Like, he has to keep track of every nation controlled by opposing factions' nuclear program progress, keep declaring wars on countries he can't control/overthrow but can't allow his opposition to control, synchronize research and Mars habs to land just right on the Mission Control points, etc. I wonder if it's absolutely require to go that level minutia, or if he's just power gaming the game.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

juggalo baby coffin posted:

is this like x-com if it was just the geoscape? that sounds kinda like a nightmare

It's quite different, really. I think the best way to explain it is it's several strategy games played at once that all connect to each other, with the main one in the demo timeframe being a sort of geopolitics sim where you're a secret society manipulating Earth governments. Thematically you're basically playing as the Council from X-Com in the demo, but that doesn't mean the mechanics work at all similarly to the geoscape.

Furism posted:

It's like if a group of nerds wanted to play only the Geoscape in XCOM, but found it too easy and shallow, and spent 3 years making their own version of it. This game is exactly what you'd expect to come out of that. It'll be extremely NOT to some people taste, and it'll be extremely to some other people taste.

Watching the LP I'm starting to understand how it works but some of it seems a little micromanag-ey. Like, he has to keep track of every nation controlled by opposing factions' nuclear program progress, keep declaring wars on countries he can't control/overthrow but can't allow his opposition to control, synchronize research and Mars habs to land just right on the Mission Control points, etc. I wonder if it's absolutely require to go that level minutia, or if he's just power gaming the game.

If you mean the Perun LP, that was very much him powergaming things. The demo was/is limited to 7 years, and some people said you couldn't really get into the space combat portion in 7 years, so he set out to prove them wrong and blow up some aliens. That meant going all out with his knowledge from the beta to rush through things as fast as possible.

For what it's worth, I never really bothered absolutely crushing the Servants to the level that he does, and that didn't directly hurt me, but it does mean once a Servant controlled country gets nukes its very expensive to invade them because they will happily go nuclear.

Bremen fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jun 27, 2022

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


im tempted by the fact you can play as weird alien sympathizers for once but most of the fun of xcom was kitting out your dudes with reverse engineered technology. does this have anything like that beyond spaceships?

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?

There's no real representation of tech progression in anything beyond your spacecraft and installations. Everything else is words only ime.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


juggalo baby coffin posted:

im tempted by the fact you can play as weird alien sympathizers for once but most of the fun of xcom was kitting out your dudes with reverse engineered technology. does this have anything like that beyond spaceships?

Not yet in the demo, but presumably. Alien tech is probably going to have major political effects, alien firepower could be destructive if used by Earth governments, and the consolidation that the tech tree incentivises also greatly centralises all of that firepower and economic potential. There’s a lot of room for interesting gameplay long term.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

From what I saw in the files when I was digging around, armies function on tiers. There's a regular tier, an atomic age (tech level) tier and then there's an alien tech tier above that. Every tech bonus I've seen that affects armies seems to just affect investment into the tech level and army recruitment.

Tim Pawlenty
Jun 3, 2006

Demiurge4 posted:

From what I saw in the files when I was digging around, armies function on tiers. There's a regular tier, an atomic age (tech level) tier and then there's an alien tech tier above that. Every tech bonus I've seen that affects armies seems to just affect investment into the tech level and army recruitment.

Dumping points into military and looking around the map, it seems there's industrial age, atomic age, information age, then robotic. The aliens presumably land armies at some point. US starts at information age, Warsaw pact countries all seem to be atomic, then the third world has industrial age armies. Additionally, I wasn't able to research it before the demo timeline ends but there's a tech called reverse engineered alien small arms or something like that which gives your armies a flat 25% damage bonus on top of the tech level calculations.

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation

Phrosphor posted:






HYJINKS SILVERHART

To my absolute disappointment I was streaming this last night and Hyjinks showed up again. Dispelling my wonder at the random agent generator creating him. He is a created asset that is in the agent pool. SAD. Someone in chat figured he might be a Johnny Silverhands reference?

I tried out taking over a strong economic power with no space program to see how that would go and it really wasn't worth it. By 2024 they still haven't founded their space program, although I was using the Roddenberrian priority preset and that had spaceflight set to 20% of investment so it is probably my fault.

Someone Coup De'Tet in Russia and I was able to grab two points there, and I have managed to get 3 points in the USA so I am sitting pretty. The space race has just started. We have the first space dock but those snakes the Servants beat us to the moon by about a month. The assholes! I have a baby space marine agent who so far has spent most of the campaign fighting alien trees in South America and he will be the first instigator of moon murder once we get our first base there. The snakes got the only rare metals mining point on the moon. We must liberate it!

Game is pretty cool once you sit back a bit. The first 2 years are very land grabby then you get into space and it changes. I have managed to rush space mining unlocks as well so hopefully we can get into the belt before we hit the time limit.

Filthy Lucre
Feb 27, 2006
If you have enough research ability, you can kind of control the space race.

If you put the most points into a global research project, you get to choose the next project. I stopped contributing research to a global project what I had put in 51% of the projects total value, then put my research into one of the other global projects until I had control of it, then would do the same to the third. You can actually do less than 51% depending on AI contributions, but half made the math easier.

Once you control all three projects, delay researching Mission to the Moon and Mission to Mars until you have the Turbo Charged Probes project researched. Turbo Charged Probes is a private project, research it as soon as it's available, then immediately finish the Moon/Mars projects. Since your probes will get there faster, you have the chance to build your bases first. Build just the Hab first, don't bother with any other buildings. The object is to claim as many landing spots as possible.

It also helps to build a space station with a space dock before hand, if you can, but it's not a deal breaker.

Unless you have really been stockpiling Boost, you're probably not going to have enough to cover both. I recommend prioritizing Mars over the Moon, Mars is way richer in resources. I was able to control about 80% of Mars this way in my last game.

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008

Tim Pawlenty posted:

Dumping points into military and looking around the map, it seems there's industrial age, atomic age, information age, then robotic. The aliens presumably land armies at some point. US starts at information age, Warsaw pact countries all seem to be atomic, then the third world has industrial age armies. Additionally, I wasn't able to research it before the demo timeline ends but there's a tech called reverse engineered alien small arms or something like that which gives your armies a flat 25% damage bonus on top of the tech level calculations.

I don't know if they drop armies but I did see some alien megafauna attack humanity on one of the streams I've been binging.

Anyone have any recommendations on good videos/streams to watch? I watched Perun's and it was good, but haven't found many others that are as well done, most are just people playing mostly silently without saying much or it's someone like Raptor who is super annoying.

Also, any word on a release date or even another demo/beta period? This game is extremely my jam and I NEED to play it!

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

deathbagel posted:

I don't know if they drop armies but I did see some alien megafauna attack humanity on one of the streams I've been binging.

Anyone have any recommendations on good videos/streams to watch? I watched Perun's and it was good, but haven't found many others that are as well done, most are just people playing mostly silently without saying much or it's someone like Raptor who is super annoying.

Also, any word on a release date or even another demo/beta period? This game is extremely my jam and I NEED to play it!

I've been occasionally watching Arumba stream it, he seems to put plenty of thought into it and talk about what he's doing but he's also one of those streamers that seems to like to complain about the game they're playing. If I didn't know better I'd think he wasn't having fun, but after finishing a 7 year demo run he turned around and started a new one saying he really liked the game.

Release date is still the second half of 2022, with a few dev comments that hopefully it wouldn't be late 2022, but no specific date.

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008

Bremen posted:

I've been occasionally watching Arumba stream it, he seems to put plenty of thought into it and talk about what he's doing but he's also one of those streamers that seems to like to complain about the game they're playing. If I didn't know better I'd think he wasn't having fun, but after finishing a 7 year demo run he turned around and started a new one saying he really liked the game.

Release date is still the second half of 2022, with a few dev comments that hopefully it wouldn't be late 2022, but no specific date.

Yeah, I was watching Arumba earlier, and I agree that he plays the game well and explains everything nicely, but I also 100% agree with you that he constantly complains about every game he plays and it really gets to me after a while. I was hoping there was someone else out there who was better than him but it looks like he's about it on Twitch.

The game starts in October 2022 so I wonder if they'll wait until October to release. I really hope not, but it would make sense.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

deathbagel posted:

The game starts in October 2022 so I wonder if they'll wait until October to release. I really hope not, but it would make sense.

I wouldn't be surprised. If it makes you feel better, I think technically it starts on September 30 :P

Also I just noticed it looks like Perun is finally continuing his LP, I'm curious to see what happens after him blowing up an alien ship.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply