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MagusofStars posted:Though tbh, that's a monster with no ranged attacks and no resistances, so I feel like a competent and well-balanced party with the correct amount of magical power could use status effects to punch through. Yeah, this should in principle be doable by any party that has access to the Bless spell and a chokepoint, I think. It's a rude surprise, but it should be doable if you have sufficient forewarning.
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Jul 6, 2022 16:58
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Four of them in an open field. Not gonna happen. Zeniel posted:Incidentally, if anyone hasn't, they should checkout Jeff Vogels GDC talk, Failing to Fail, it's very entertaining. Now I want to know what's on the disk, or even if it's still readable.
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Jul 6, 2022 17:25
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Scenario 1 - The Valley of Dying Things Chapter 2 - South Valley and Pangle's Hut   "OK you two, spill." "Yeah, even I can tell you guys have something in mind." "If we muzt?" "No, we zall, az sharing is caring, no?" "Well?" "So far, the dezcription of the sickness matches heavy metal poisoning as caused by mine runoff." "Which is to zay, something like mercury in the water from improper excavations." "That makes no sense. That would be, like, the first thing that people would look into, right?" "Not if they were being paid not to." "Doesn't add up. Sure, some spillage could be ignored for notes under the table, but something so bad as to cause an entire valley to be abandoned like this? That would be too large to hide forever." "And we're here to investigate. If this is something being covered up, we'll need to be wary for that. Otherwise, it could be... something natural? Like if a vein of mercury was eroded into by the river or something?" "Mercury is a byproduct of other mining efforts, not the root cauz." "And such illness over such time? If it were just that, it is something others would profit from openly." "Like Wizards." "Yeah. So we're back at square one. Investigation." "Well, maybe the sign can give us a clue?"  "Or not. We'll have to go there eventually, but if we take the well-mapped road...." "We will talk into an ambush." "I like how you think." "Coin flip says West."  "Nothing. Just the valley curving up to the ridgelines." "Back east then."  "Ho there!"  Combat! Woo!  "Yez, hoztile."   "Your Money or your Life!" So, I didn't go into it in any real detail last time, but let me break down how combat works in this game. On the battle-map, each side - You, your allies and the enemy - each get a turn to act and move using Action points. Moving costs 1 AP per square, attacking in melee costs 4, Mage spells cost 6, Priest spells cost 5, using archery or Throwing weapons costs 3. And you can always perform an action if it drops your AP into the negatives. You perform the action, but that character's turn ends. Anyway, combat is based around a d20 for most rolls, with actual damage being dealt with on a weapon-by-enemy basis. For the PCs, when they make an attack roll, they roll their 1d20, and add their relevant Skill, the Strength/Dexterity bonus (whatever that is), and then Luck. Luck is odd in that it seems to be a second roll of the d20, and if you get at or under your Luck stat, that number is added at this point. So a character with 1 Luck, if they roll a 1, gets a +1 to their attack roll. If a character has 20 luck, an they roll a 1, they get 1 added to their attack roll. This is opposed by the enemy, who rolls a d20 and adds their Armor and Skill values. If the PC rolls higher, they hit and deal damage. If they don't hit, well, it's a miss. On the other side, an enemy that attacks uses their d20 + Skill, and is opposed by the PC's d20 and their Defense stat. If an attack hits, the game rolls the damage of the weapon or attack in question and subtracts the Armor value of the target. This is added by the player's equipment (as we'll see later on in this update) or the armor value of the NPC. If the result is positive, damage is dealt! Each level of Blessing (which can get pretty high) adds +1 to all rolls, including damage, while a Curse gives a -1 to relevant rolls, including the Armor value of NPCs, and any variable armor values on PC equipment. Assassination is a chance of a second hit if the first one hits, and you roll under the difference in levels. as modified by your Assassination level. It looks like there's a lot of moving parts, but it's pretty simple mechanically speaking, and for a game that was basically written in 1994 for Macintosh, simple is good. "I'm zorry, what was that?" "Stupidity. Attacking people coming into the Valley? Why did they think we were here? And we out-numbered them three-to-one!" "Dezperation? Or something else?" "I say we head off the road again."  "OH COME ON!" "Never fear! Danger is here!"     "Ah... guys?" And when the enemy outnumbers you like this, they get a lot of chances to connect. I'll rez him after the fight in the character editor. "Ugh, what happened?" "Wolf tried to rip your throat out." "Oh. You mean like that one?" "Yeah, like that." Hox was busy killing Goblins, and also has the lowest XP curve of the game that he levels up first, doublng his HP in the process. Good, as that means he's a lot more survivable. "Not good at defending itself." "More importantly, do you smell that?" "This makes no sense." "I agree." "Thiz degree of water-table contamination should have an obvious source, and not be ignored." "Even I can tell this is messed up." "Ho, the house!" "Sure, if you tell us what's up." So, there's this little house outside of town. Sells poison - probably fresh from the well, and two types of armor. Both are boots. You can see how each is described as 'Blocking x-y damage', well that's how your PCs reduce the hurt they take. I get Steel-Toed boots for everyone. "How did this go on for so long?" "And why did they stay so long?" "They didn't." "WHY ARE YOU GUYS EVEN BANDITS?!?! THERE'S NOTHING TO STEAL!" "COME OVER HERE AND FIND OUT!" "Nah." "When I said head West, I didn't expect the entire valley to turn this direction." "Doz anyone know what iz on the other side of this ridge?" This annoys me, as the over-world for this scenario has this gap in the lower-left corner of 3 map tiles that I can't remember if it's an isolated teleportation section, or what. I'll get to it eventually. Or cheat. "Heading higher, away from the damaged valley." "Everyone keep your eyes peeled for signs of illicit mining." "Like this?" No, I have no idea how I remember this was here. I should look up a walkthrough, but there won't be any for the non-base scenarios, so why get back into that habit now? "No... but there iz somthing here." "Oh." "Ah... Peace?" "We will do az you command." "Yes, and we will be right on that." "Hey, could that be the mine?" "MORE RUNNING!" "I think we're far enough away now."  As a Canadian, let me tell you, if a bear is attacking you, things have gone very, very wrong and you are in for a world of hurt. Don't attack wild animals in real life, and if they are making aggression towards you, GTFO. "Ah... this isn't good." "We can do this." "And we did." I got lucky. They lined up in a row due to their pathing, and I was able to hit them with a couple Fireballs and keep them focused on my two melee characters while everyone else pelted them with ranged attacks. Tokka and Cooper both leveled, meaning that Danger, Zaka and Shinwell are the half of the party still at Level 1. That will change. "No cubs." "Probably died to the sickness." "Let's keep going, there's a minor ridge still to the west."  "Isolated from the water table." "Water from the outside of the valley, yes, this iz a refuge. Why no one else though?" "Maybe the sign has a sign for us?" "That's a bad joke and you should feel bad for it." "And who is Pangle?" "Probably this guy?"  "Hello?"  "Nice sheep."  "And a nice dog too! Aren't you a good puppy?" Pangle's dog runs up to you and frolics around your feet. "Who's a good boy? Yes, yes you are! What's your name" Talk. To. EVERYONE. "Ah. And what do you do around here?" "Well, I keep that worthless ball of wool in line." "I'm sorry? Wool? You mean the sheep?" "Wonderful, wise master calls it Grazer. I call it Dummy." "Tell uz about Grazer, please." "I'm supposed to keep it quiet and in line, so master can cut its fur off. Woof. When master is not around though, it bugs me all the time. Bark. Do me a favor?" "Of course we'll do you a favor!" It sniffs you briefly and thinks. "Go call it dummy for me. If I do it, master will hit me. You can do it just fine." "This is going to be the most gloriously stupid thing I can imagine. Let's do it!" "And you are?' You see a sheep. It's been recently shorn, and looks unhappy about its lot. It looks dolefully up at you. "Baaa. Master calls me Grazer. Baa." Odd, this sheep appears to be talking. "And what do you do for the Master?" "Baaaaa. I grow nice fur to keep me warm and happy. An then that foul hound chases me and master cuts it all off. Baaaa. It's a crime, I tell you." "Actually, shearing wool from a sheep isn't a crime, it's good health for them as it helps mitigate pest infestation. "You know that?" "I know things." "Master take my fur. Baaa. Later, he'll probably take my meat. Baaa. This is no kind of life, I can tell you." Presented for your enjoyment, the rest of the conversation as screenshots.   "Worth it." "We can look into that later. I don't feel like digging up chicken bones."  "Looks like storage." "Let me.... Got it!"   "Yeah, nothing here." "Under the rock, huh?" "I will take that." "And now for Pangle himself."  "Wow, this lock is simple."  "OUT!" I will have to come back to him later as I'm way out of sequence for this scenario right now. "Natural rockfalls, not the source of any contamination." "And we're pretty much up against the western edge of the Vale. We can go north or East from here." "Worth investigating." "Or not. These are familiar." "How familiar?" "That familiar."  hahahahaha Jeff, what the hell. This is an intro level scenario. Like level 1-5 or 6 at the outside. why do you hate me Reload. Don't come this way. Leave it for... another party. "But you're right, I think backtracking into the valley itself seems like a good idea right now."  NO. "I'm going to go out of my way and think that this lake is a cesspool" "And they call it a marsh!" "Back east then." "ARE YOU STILL FOLLOWING US?" "YOU'RE FOLLOWING US!" "What is that moving there?" "Why would you investigate?"   Not yet. Maybe with a couple levels under my belt first. Reload! "Hold on, farmland?" "Yes, it is. But we're nowhere near Sweetwater." "Marralis? Wow, are we nowhere near where we want to be."
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Jul 6, 2022 21:23
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I mean, the game did warn you pretty clearly. Also, just regarding the overall difficulty of some of those encounters (e.g., the bears, the fungus), as an intro scenario I'm pretty sure it's balanced around you staying on the main trail for a little while, at least till you gain a couple levels and get some actual equipment.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:13
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For some reason, the scenery in some of these screenshots reminded me of the Mega Drive game 'Warriors of the Eternal Sun', which I quite like.quote:"This is going to be the most gloriously stupid thing I can imagine. Let's do it!" This line made me smile.
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Jul 7, 2022 00:02
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MagusofStars posted:I mean, the game did warn you pretty clearly. Or random Basilisks. gently caress Random Basilisks. JustJeff88 posted:For some reason, the scenery in some of these screenshots reminded me of the Mega Drive game 'Warriors of the Eternal Sun', which I quite like. You mean this one that's been LP'd? That reminds me more of the middle Ultimas in terms of presentation than Exile. Also, thank you. It's no Chess Game from Exile 3, but I liked the humor.
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Jul 7, 2022 03:41
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berryjon posted:You mean this one that's been LP'd? That reminds me more of the middle Ultimas in terms of presentation than Exile. The terrain reminded of the many forests in that game.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:06
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Oh man, I admit I did like having to identify items in old-school Exile. And things like Poison and Disease being separate (this persisted into Avernum 1-3).
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Jul 7, 2022 09:22
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Scenario 1 - The Valley of Dying Things Chapter 3 - Marralis and the Vale Infestation  "Look, I know we're supposed to slit up for these sorts of things, but I'd rather we didn't, you understand?" "Agreed. There's something wrong here, and it's not just in the water."  "And I could use a refill." Right, so Archery still has the problem of limited ammo for weapons. However, Jeff listened to those concerns and created the Sling, a 1d8 Throwing weapon that doesn't use ammo. Shinwell has one. Cooper has a regular Bow, while Danger has a Crossbow. "Hello! Jovanna Cooper." This shop is run by a lovely blonde woman who wears a charm with a black stone. Her longbow is kept close at hand and she wears a full quiver of arrows. "I am Covington. Greetings. I sell missiles of all shapes and sizes, all the better for hunting the wide variety of vermin which surrounds us." "I'm afraid you're going to have to spell that one out for us dear. Vermin?" "Between the goblins, the bears and the bandits, it's a wonder I can make enough missiles to sustain us." "Already encountered bandits and bears." "The bears live to the south. Normally placid creatures, they have decided, in the face of a lack of game, to hunt two-legged meat. If you catch my meaning." Hi, Canadian here. While yes, bears are omnivores, and can eat meat, they are mostly vegetarians, who forage for fruits and such. While they can and have killed humans in the past, that is usually in defense of their cubs. At the time of this writing, the most recent fatality in North America was on 10 May 2022, when a group of soldiers out of Joint Base Elmendorf–Richardson in Alaska. They were mapping out a training site for land navigation when they were attacked by a female brown bear who knocked over two soldiers with a charge, one of whom later died from their injuries. Most instances of "Killed and Eaten by a Bear" are actually deaths caused by a bear encounter, then scavengers such as wolves or coyotes getting to the body before it was found. And this has been your irregularly scheduled Bear Safety interrupt. We now return you to your LP in progress. "The bandits live to the east, though I've heard rumors of a lair of them to the south." "That might be the place we passed by on the other side of the ridge down that way." "I concur." "And the Goblins?" "The Goblins live, for the most part, to the north. Beware them - they seem weak, but they can easily swarm and overwhelm you." "So noted." "Well, what do you have for sale?" "I'll take... three dozen regular arrows. Iron is out of my price range right now." "No bolts?" "Sorry, the blacksmith hasn't come through with the heads. Got darts and knives if you want." "drat. Thanks anyways." "Sorry, I don't know anyone who's got bolts right now. You might try Sweetwater?" "Thank you." "Go get'em." "No one home." "Apologies. I am Phillip Hox, with Unspecified Services." You meet the mayor of Marralis. His nervous manner, facial tics and constant sheen of nervous sweat all say one thing. He's a bureaucrat desperately out of his depth. In fact, he looks very glad to see you. "I am more than pleased, in fact, estatic, to have the honor of welcoming you. I am known as Mayor Broder, Esquire, Honored Empire Liaison to the Town of Marralis." "That's an interesting job title." "Ah, yes. That is a complicated and multi-faceted statement. But I shall endeavor to answer. I am the mayor and leader of this town, and the first defense against fear and destruction."  "Fear and destruction, you say?" "Unfortunately, fear and destruction are much more relevant to our current situation than my previous form filling skills. Alas, the curse has shown all of us to be inadequate, each in our own special way." "Well, tell us about the curse please." "The curse has, as you can imagine, severely curtailed the standard operating parameters of our village. Empire procedures regarding impending doom are stiffly insufficient. Now, alas, I am forced to turn to adventurers for assistance." "You know, the term adventurers is technically an insult." "That's very true." "Agreed." "The children of my village are ill. Dying. Our current healing magic is insufficient. However, I have heard rumors of the School of Magery, and suspect there may be magic inside which can help us. Return something to us which can help us, and I will reward you to the extend of my meager abilities." "And what can you tell us about the school?" "I'm afraid that the Empire could not discourage more any receiving of information on the School of Magery. I know nothing about it, and that is the way my Empire masters wish it. What makes this place so special, I know not, but there you are." "Really? Is there anything specific about the school that the Empire would not like people to know?" "Ah, yes, the Empire. Savior and Protector of us all. Praise be to her Highness, Empress Prazac, First of Her Name!" "While you were talking, I found thiz book on the shelves. It was ... out of place." Excellent! Books are always fun to read. They provide lore or humor for the scenario. Let's see what it has to say! Jeff.... BOOKS ARE NOT SCROLLS! Although if I remember my messages right, that just cleared a level of Dumbfounding from Tokka.  "What would be ztord here?" "A lot of stuff." "That's guarded."   "Ah... hello there?" This girl should clearly be in bed. She's deathly pale, and is obviously quite weak. However, the scrapes on her legs and dirt everywhere indicate that this isn't a child who takes well to being cooped up. She stands up to walk to you. She limps up to you, bold as can be, and looks over your weapons and armor with great interest. "I'm Yvan." "Shinwell. What are you doing?" She's slow in responding. You see that she's started feeling quite ill. She looks up at you. "I'm just trying to be outside." "Outside is where the poison is at." "Why ztay? Why suffer?" She wavers slightly. "They all say I should be in bed. I don't like being in bed. I want to be out in the air, like daddy and brother. Why don't I get to play?" "Lethargy iz just az bad for the person az is excessive work. Moderate your play." She suddenly becomes upset. "I just want to be outside. You want to take me in, don't you? I won't go in, I won't!" Tears streaming down her face, she moves away. She's trying to run, but she doesn't have the strength left, so she just stumbles back to where she was resting. "Nothing's here. Not anymore. Nothing worth anything." This NPC doesn't move, and isn't artificially constrained by terrain.  "Hey there. Heard you were asking about town." This man is prowling among his crops like a wolf, watching for the slightest sign of rot or disease. When he sees it, he swoops swiftly down to painstakingly cut the afflicted plant away. He seems loathe to turn away from his work to speak with you. "I am Kevin." While he says this, he watches his plants, not you. "Guess it's my turn, huh? So, uh, wat'ch'a doin?" "I'm a farmer. Tough work, here in the Vale." "Yeah, the Vale is in a rough place." "You can grow things here. You just have to work hard and till the afflicted plants the moment they're touched. There's only one lucky bugger who's managed to escape it." "From what we've heard, lots of people are managing to escape. Who is lucky by your measure?" "His name's Pangle. He lives in a hut to the south-west." He thinks. "You know, maybe he can help us! If you talked to him, maybe he's know something. Of course, he's pretty mean." "We've met him. Mean doesn't begin to describe him. His dog and sheep though are hilarious. "They still slinging insults at each other? No idea where he got them. But you know, he sorta, kinda likes me. Mention my name to him. Tell him I sent you, and he might help." "Better than nothing."  "I can't pop this lock." "Nor can I Unlock it." "Take a look around. No one locks up without trying to protect something." "You know, for a bunch of boxes, you never try just opening the damned door." "Still not getting in." "Look around then."  "Hi!" At first you aren't sure why this boy is walking so slowly and carefully. Then you figure it out. He's blind. His sharp ears pick up your approach and he turns slowly to face you. "I am Yossi. Are you trying to break in?" "Not yet. Still deciding if it's worth it. What are you doing?" "I am trying to play." "Play is good. It keeps the body active." "It's hard to play with my eyes gone all funny. I move around, and try not to trip on things. It makes me sad. I like to wander all over." "How bad are your eyes?" "I can't see things no more. They're all blurry and funny. My daddy says it's because of the water. They're trying to heal me, but it's tough. The Wizard ran away after daddy yelled at him." "And where did you wander?" "I found a big, scary hole! And I looked around the old Magic School too!" Bullshit. The School is not 'casual wander' distance from here for a blind kid. The hole? Yeah. But not the school. "What is thiz about a hole?" He looks excited. "Yeah! It's straight south from town. You can't see it until you're really close. I didn't go in because it's scary, but I liked to look at it." "Thank you." "You're welcome!" "What sort of person keeps his kids here like this?" "The sort of person who doesn't mention a wife or mother."   "Found it." "The wall iz 'otted." :priest: Ah, Move Mountains. How I love you for accidental or deliberate bypasses. "And he exploded his zhop before this Mage left." "And left the chest behind the counter."  Ah, traps! Hidden events that cause unblockable damage (for the most part). Just Light Heal All your way through this. "This has to be worth it..." "NOTHING!!" "Ugh. That hurt. Need to take a load off." "Don't care." "Ah..." Physically, this man is as strong a specimen as you've ever met. Inside, however, he's clearly a wreck. He stares at his empty mug despondently, barely even registering your presence. "I'm Vandor. What do you want?" He mutters as he tips the mug from side to side. "We apologize for intruding. We thought this was another abandoned house." "I've heard of you. You're the adventurers. You want to know what my job is? Being worthless. That's what." "That's not what...." "You're here to save us all. That's what they say. Good luck. I might as well be dead for all the good I've done." "...." "I raised crops, and they're rotting away. Yossi and Yvan look to me for help and I can do nothing. Their mother trusted me and now she's gone. Why shouldn't I be dead?" "And their mother? Your wife?" "Most adults have survived the curse. One woman didn't." Suddenly, he slaps himself across the face as hard as he can. An Angry red spot spreads over his cheek. "I should have done something. I'd be better off dead." "We'll leave you to your drink then."  Before we go in, look at how fast Taylor has bounced back his HP over everyone else. That's the power of his recuperation Trait at work. "Thiz is nice." The temple's sole occupant is a woman, who paces anxious orbits around the room. Although she's clearly lost in thought, you finally manage to get her attention. "Oh! I am Somreth. Welcome, Adventurers." "I am Tokka-Gesss, Slithzerikai, az you can see. Pray tell, what do you do here?" "I am the leader and teacher of the Temple of Divine Justice." "You must have many responsibilities as a leader and teacher." "I spread wisdom and strength to all those who come and visit me. To the farmers, I give comfort. To those such as yourselves, I teach spells." "We'll come back to that one later. We've met some farmers. Vandor and Kevin." She sighs. "Alas, with the curse about, it seem that no amount of comfort is every enough. I have tried." "Your wisdom muzt be sought after." "It is strange, perhaps. We of the valley have been so occupied with keeping our bodies and spirits alive that we have had little energy left to spare to figure out what causes the curse that destroys us. That is why I am here, pacing and thinking." "Your thoughts then, your concluzions?" "I think about the source of the curse, which appeared so suddenly and inexplicably. And interestingly, there is one other inexplicable thing in the valley." "The School." "Yes. The old, abandoned School of Magery. It is a huge structure, built into a mountain. Full of power. Unenterable and abandoned. And, as far as I know, only two people in the Vale who might know how to enter. Avizo and Axel." "And who are they?" "Last I heard, they both resided in Sweetgrove. If you wish to lift the curse, be sure to speak with them. They may be able to help." There is a pause for thought. "Actually, I heard Avizo was fleeing." "We know. He was at Fort Tallus attempting to regain his strength for the next stretch." "Thank you for your help. May I see what you have to teach?" I really should get Curse All, but at this point, I've saving my money for Training. "That's it for town. I want to see what's up with that Bandit Camp to the south. There's no way it's economically feasible." "We could ask them?" "Or not."  A hidden dungeon. You don't have to be told about this. You could stumble over it by accident, but if you're given directions, why not? "Aaaand it's completely empty." "You're an idiot." "Ah." "Ah indeed." "Can you translate that into Common for the rest of us?" "Se how the stone changes here? This is an older volcanic pyroduct, long extinct." "Go on." "It iz a lava tube from a dead volcano, hundreds, if not thousands of years past. Because of thiz, theze chambers are isolated from the water table." "Which means that what's in the water can't get in." "Exactly." "Bingo." "Alarm! Intruders!" "Oh crap." "FIREBALL!" Right, so the Vale Infestation (which is a bad name. I think something got mixed up somewhere along the lines. This scenario isn't well edited.) starts off with these murder-holes, where groups of Archers can shoot out and hit you. You can either rush past them in combat mode and heal between sections, or do what I do eventually. Fireball back through the windows and use my own archery against them, healing up as I go along. Like so. "Well, we're committed now. Best finish the job."  "Thank you, mister obvious."   "Fresh water. Uncontaminated. I was right." "Hold on, a secret way forward."  Those of you familiar with my previous LPs will recognize my classic "No Lights and everyone stacks up in the same tile" stance on combat. In this case, we see Hox Assassinate a Brgigand for double damage, and Tokka getting a second level-up through the shared XP. If you're watching the HP values in general, this means that Hox and Tokka are both Level 3 at this point, and Zaka is still at Level One thanks to needing so much XP to go up thanks to all his traits. "There are a lot of random exits, but I think it's best to go forward." "Ztinking Cloud... not useful yet." Those two tiles with yellow 'clouds' in them are what remains of my mis-clicking and casting Stinking Cloud. NPCs and PCs that move into one or end their turn in one take a level of Curse. It can be useful, but not in an open area like this. "Well, we're inside now. Let's see what's around here."  "Why would humans require manuals?" "Aw, look at the doggie!"   "BAD DOG! Play dead! No treats for you!" "Storage. Uncontaminated food too." "Oh, you're a big one." Very busy, ran out of MP. Couldn't Scry Monster on the Ogre, so no stat block for it. I think it's the only one in the scenario too.   "Dies like the rest." "I have these new Bolts, but they're different than the ones I have. Maybe in the construction?" "And the back areas, to connect the other structures."  :priest: "I can smell the Blessings on you! Begone!" "Ok, you die painfully." "That was annoying." "Other side of the cistern." "This makes a lot of sense. Yes, they can import safe soil from higher up, and use it to grow mushrooms and other fungi here, as a small supply station." "Oooh, look at that door! I bet something fun is behind it." "Let us deal with the enemies behind first." "I have to say, Fireballs make everything easy. Except for the looting part." "This should lead to the last structure."  "DIE!" "You do realize you're standing in front of your Archers, right?" "He has a point." "Mistakes were made."  "And that's that. Nothing interesting in the side rooms. I say this place is clear." "Except for that one door." "WHY WON'T YOU OPEN!?!?!" "No, this will not work." "I'll come back for you. Just you see." "And that's competition removed. Now, suggestions on our next stop?" "We could go to Sweetwater, figure out how to get into the School." "South, investigate that other place in the ridgeline." "North-west, or find the source of the Goblins and take them out." "Decisions, decisions..."
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Jul 10, 2022 02:36
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Did that dog actually attack, or did she just shoot him for more points in chaotic stupid?
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Jul 10, 2022 04:20
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JustJeff88 posted:Did that dog actually attack, or did she just shoot him for more points in chaotic stupid? Look at image 134 again, before she kills the dog. I (L)ook at the Dog, and you can see that it has a (H)ostile tag beside the name. Did I try to make sure she got the kill after writing her as liking Rover? You bet your rear end I did. But the dog wasn't peaceful at all.
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Jul 10, 2022 04:48
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berryjon posted:Look at image 134 again, before she kills the dog. I (L)ook at the Dog, and you can see that it has a (H)ostile tag beside the name. I thought that (H) means 'happy'. I actually didn't notice it until you pointed it out. I was still hung up on the talking dog feuding with a sheep.
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Jul 10, 2022 07:11
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It's funny seeing how Jeff's game designs have changed over time. Starting with, if memory serves, Avernum 6, Jeff started getting very tactical about positioning. I say that because it is, as far as I know, the first time an enemy could use knockback to blow you across the room. (It was a slith general, I think?) Now in his newest games, knockback abilities are something the player gets comparatively early on.
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Jul 10, 2022 10:41
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One area where he really regressed, in my opinion, is smaller party sizes. Dropping from 6 party members sucked; 5 would have been a cut, 4 is an amputation. One of the things that made me lose interest in BG3 quickly was when they capped the game at 4 party members. Meanwhile, being able to have up to 6 in the Pathfinder games and the first PoE game was a big selling point for me. Not surprisingly, I was disappointed when PoE2 cut it back to 5.
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Jul 10, 2022 17:33
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I actually disagree on that one. I always felt like in Exile there wasn't all that much variation on what you could do with characters, and by mid levels you were often branching into secondary skills anyways, so the 5th and 6th party member didn't have a lot of impact. Cutting it down to four meant enemy group sizes could decrease a little as well, and made aoe less vital to a lot of fights. For Avernum specifically I think 4 people was definitely the way to go.
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Jul 10, 2022 20:26
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The Happy Hyperbole posted:I actually disagree on that one. I always felt like in Exile there wasn't all that much variation on what you could do with characters, and by mid levels you were often branching into secondary skills anyways, so the 5th and 6th party member didn't have a lot of impact. Cutting it down to four meant enemy group sizes could decrease a little as well, and made aoe less vital to a lot of fights. For Avernum specifically I think 4 people was definitely the way to go. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I find that 4 slots forces too many cookie-cutter builds to fill the fighter/mage/cleric/sometimes rogue template, and that he player ends up with only 1 character, maybe, where they can really play. During my Exile 1 playthrough, I had a high-damage polearm fighter, a sword & board defence-oriented tank, a classic cleric (blunt weapons, shield, all in on cleric spells), a dual-weilding rogue, a dedicated mage and a mage/cleric who literally had no points in anything but casting until later in the game when he I gave her throwing weapons for a laugh. Take away two character slots and my build options go down the plughole.
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Jul 10, 2022 22:27
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I'm curious. What's your opinion on the modern 'statless' systems he uses in Queen's Wish, where there's a total of three skill trees and everyone can level in them if they have the skill points to do it?   (Pictured: Three of my characters from my run of Queen's Wish, showing the three skill trees. Each tree goes from bottom to top - you can put skill points in a tier of the tree only if you have invested at least two skill points in the tier directly below it.)
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Jul 10, 2022 23:50
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I cannot comment as I have not played those.
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Jul 11, 2022 00:09
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I enjoyed Queen's Wush and made it almost too the very end (where I've never made it far in the avernum games) before getting stuck on a massive dragon fight, but as always I longed for the days of Exile 3. I think part of it is it's just more fun to have more party members to use. Spending your turn missing, or healing someone doesn't feel so bad when you have 5 other chances to do things.
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Jul 11, 2022 18:27
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Meanwhile, I often played the Exile games with a solo character 
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Jul 11, 2022 19:17
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Meanwhile, I often played the Exile games with a solo character Now I'm wondering if I should make a solo-character for this series....
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Jul 11, 2022 23:12
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GodFish posted:I think part of it is it's just more fun to have more party members to use. Exactly; couldn't have put it better myself. To me, more people in the party means that I can readily engage with more game mechanics. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Meanwhile, I often played the Exile games with a solo character Weirdo berryjon posted:Now I'm wondering if I should make a solo-character for this series.... Don't make me come back to Canada and send my bear after you.
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Jul 12, 2022 00:17
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berryjon posted:Now I'm wondering if I should make a solo-character for this series.... I'm operating off of 25-year-old memories here, but I remember enjoying this scenario, and it's designed for a single-character party with a defined player character. Whether or not that appeals to you, especially for an LP, is an entirely separate matter.
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Jul 12, 2022 01:51
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm operating off of 25-year-old memories here, but I remember enjoying this scenario, and it's designed for a single-character party with a defined player character. Whether or not that appeals to you, especially for an LP, is an entirely separate matter. Great, now I have to add a "Recommended Scenarios" addition to the OP. I'll do that later. *saved* edit... Wait. This is the guy who did the SPHERE'S TRILOGY? Sold! Sight unseen!
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Jul 12, 2022 02:06
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Scenario 1 - The Valley of Dying Things Chapter 4 - Fungal Cavern and Sweetgrove  "Decision made. We're going to head for the lead town now - Sweetgrove or Swetwater, whatever it is, and start officially investigating now that we've gotten some indication of the lay of the land." "I do not underztand why we were not provided proper mapz of the terrain in a known region." "Not a clue." Because I forgot to cheat in the maps. Maybe I should? "But by the map, that small cavern that may be Bandits iz to the south." "Hold on." "STOP FOLLOWING US!" "YER FOLLOWING US!" "And now we just have to get around there, because we can't climb over." "I've heard of stuff that can let you fly over these sorts of problems." "What? The Orb of Thralni? No one's seen that since the First Expedition." "..." "You know, this doesn't look well traveled at all. But it is worth investigating."    "Naturally occurring... Yez, this entire valley must be riddled with such isolated mini-caverns, each growing their own things." "And there's edibles. Let's harvest some of the excess and leave the rest for regrowth." "Man, rocks for my Sling are everywhere. Glad I don't have to worry about carrying stocks of ammo wherever I go."     "Quite nice."  "Thiz might come in handy."  "Should be near the middle of this place."  "OW! OW! STOP IT!"  High-ish armor and a Speed 8 means these guys can fly around and take twice as many actions as we can, and be tough to hit for a low level party. We'll win, that's not in doubt, but we'll still take some damage. And Hox doing alright. "Oh, bounty!" "Caution."  "I can see something ahead."  "That's no ominous at all." "But the door here is less set into the wall as it is built into it."  "Be really careful..." "Oh..." Crap! Slime Zombies ahead and behind, and a Wight for bad measure. This is going to be rough.   The Wight has already taken 28 points of damage in this fight. This is after repeated Fireballs and a spell I forgot I had on my first crack at this vault.   Man, look at that damage! But sadly...  "I don't feel like breaking into a gravesite today. Maybe tomorrow." "Agreed. There iz still more harvesting to be done." "And that loops us all the way around, except for that vault. Which we never entered." "Good haul on the food. Too bad it'll take weeks to regrow." "WHY!?!?!" "You tell me!" "We should just... you know... beat them up?" "But that would be taking the easy way out." "Should be to the north-east from here." "And finally here."  "Thiz is... not as bad as othter places." "Oh, look. Yet another innocent child affected by this mysterious curse that has been around for years now." "Could you possibly say that with any more mono-tone?" "No." "There is only so much death and failure and utter inability to accept reality in the face before you just sigh and mentally throw your hands up and give up on the people who can't just... leave." A small boy, maybe about five, sits by the lake. You have to make an effort to hide your shocked expressions - his skin is almost gray! "That's not healthy on a Slith or a Vahnatai, let alone a hume. Child, speak your name." Nervousness and shyness combat his curiosity about who and what you are. Eventually, curiosity wins. "Levitz." He reaches out to touch the lake ware, and then pulls it back, as if the water burns. "I'm waiting." "And what iz it you wait for?" He doesn't say anything, he just stares into the water. "Anozer approach. "Do you know what iz in the water?" He looks up at you, then back down at the water. "I hate water. It's yucky." "Not even the usual sanitzation methods clean the water? That's... not good." "And with that depressing thought out of the way - because there's no way I'm going to test the water myself - let's move on." "Agreed."  "A smith! Excellent!" Like all farming communities, Sweetgrove has a blacksmith. He moves through the smithy slowly and painfully as if bent down by some invisible weight. He looks at you intently, but his eyes don't seem to be registering what he sees. He finally says, in a flat voice, "I'm Bristow." His voice is dry and flat. "I've heard of you. You're trying to cure the curse. I'll help. You can see me supplies. You can purchase armor and weapons at a discount as well." "Thank you! I've been lugging around this Iron Breastplate that no one can wear for days!"  YES! I can see things! And pay for training and spells! Woo-hoo! FINALLY! Also, Alchemy reagents tend to be very good in the gold-per-weight line, while weapons and armor are good in the gold-per-item line. Pick and choose carefully what you take and what you keep. "But with that out of the way, and that load off my back, what can you tell us about the Curse?" He pauses for some time, unsure of whether to open up to you. Finally, he says "You should meet my daughter. Her name is Jenette. She plays outsde a lot." "And where does she usually play?" "She plays while she can. Meet her, and you'll see. Anything you can do for us, anything to help, and we'd be very thankful." "Not a word, Cooper." "I didn't say anything." "What about what you have in stock?" Bristow is AMAZING. Not only does he buy pretty much anything, he sells stuff for relatively cheap. Weapons go from Stone to Iron (but not Steel), and armor goes from Leather to Steel. Which means that he can equip pretty much any party at any but the highest levels of reasonable and cheap gear. Except for Magic and special equipment. I pick up Iron weapons were reasonable, as they are a little cheaper than the armor. I'll come back for that at a later date.  "One moment..." "Yet another empty place."  "And thiz is curious." "What iz all this?" "No nutritional value." I'm pretty sure that any food or gold that is "Not Yours" has a numerical value of 0, just to rub salt into the wound.  "Right, gotta go back south to get the guy and what he knows about getting into the School."  "Trezpazz not without knowledge. Come back later."  "Hopefully somethng useful here."  This alchemist is cloaked not only in a mage's robe, but also in the impenetrable armor of undiluted arrogance. As uninterested as she is in spending some of her valuable time dealing with yous, she deigns to give you a little bit of attention. "I am Karen, Sweetgrove's alchemist." "Zaka." "I am one of the few true seekers of knowledge in Skylark Vale. To fund my arcane researches, I produce scrolls and potions to sell to doomed adventurers." "Az one who pursues the truth in knowledge myzelf, what is it you lay claim too?" "My colleague, Kelda, from Marralis and I have tried to continue the tradition of the School of Magery, and use this valley as a base for all manner of magical learning." "I have heard much, yet so little of the School." "It was a school in the CVale, where mages could master their arts in peace. If, for some reason, you wish to leanr more, speak to Axel. He lives across town." "That zeems prudent. What do you offer?" No. "Do you get many adventurers here?" "Oh, every so often, some group comes in, thinking they can loot the School, or make a name for themselves with some daring-do or another. They're all doomed. Like you." "And don't touch the books!"  "told you." "Owie." "Let me guess, you touched Karen's books without permission?" "That obvious?" The town healer sits at her desk, depressed. She is currently grinding up some healing herbs in another attempt to cure the diseases afflicting the Vale. She is welcome for the distraction from her frustration. "I am Hamer, town healer. Or of those whom I am capable of aiding." "Must be tough, if you can't help people." She laughs bitterly. "Perhaps I can heal you. I certainly haven't been able to help my daughters, or poor Avizo." "Your daughters were affected by the curse?" "One of them was thrown into Exile. I couldn't help her. Now, poor Jenette wastes away, and there is nothing I can do. I only hope my husband can forgive me for my failure." "Look, with relations between Empire and Avernum normalizing, you should be able to reach out to your daughter down below. I am sure you can be forgiven." She sheds an unselfconcious tear. "He says he doesn't blame me. But then, who can truly tell?" "I wonder who the other daughter is." "There's too many sons and daughters sent to Fort Exile over the years to really know."  "There you are! You're late!"  You meet a soldier of the Empire Army. She is in the middle of some exercises. You watch her sharp movements with admiration. "I am Captain Lillian, head of the Sweetgrove Guard." "You're the captain of the Guard?" "And teaching. Once the curse hit, we got another curse right behind it. Bandits. Goblins. Wolves. We became weak, and they came in. When you travel around, beware." "We've already raided the Bandit camp south of Marralis." "Good! There's nothing bandits love more than a small group traveling alone. They'll have more victims. Just have a care that you don't number among them." "What's this about training?" "Our trainer fled the Vale. We still needed one, and I was the only person qualified, so I took over. Do you need some?" "YES" +2 Strength, +1 Dex, +3 Bashing +7 SP, +1 Intelligence +1 Dex, +1 Archery Nothing. He hasn't Leveled Up yet.  +2 Archery, +2 Dexterity. +2 Thrown, +3 SP. "You know, looking out the back here, I see something odd in that grove of trees." "What, this one?" "BACK UP!" Yeah, trying to pick a fight with two Ghasts in close quarters like this is a recipe for disaster. Thankfully, they can't escape this little grove, so I can deal with them... later. "Oh, good, someone important. You know you have some undead in town?" "What are you on about?" You meet the mayor of Sweetgrove, up to her neck in paperwork, reports and accounts of the Curse sweeping the Vale. She looks very pleased to see you. Aside from the mention of the Undead, of course. She stands to shake your hand. "I am Mayor Crouch. What's this about the undead?" "Pair of Ghasts in a small grove on the edge of town. The quarters are too tight for us to deal with them right now." "I'll see what I can do. It would be part of my job as the chief Empire Liaison for Sweetgrove and for most of Skylark Vale as well. The details are unimportant, I simply wish to put as many of my resources at your disposal as possible." "What sort of help has the Empire provided, aside from letting us in?" "I report back to the Empire about the goings on here, implement their commands and in general, facilitate the goings on here. Alas, they have not aided me as they should have." "What sort of aid are you expecting?" "Well, not bureaucratic maneuvering," she snaps angrily. "I reported this problem years ago, but it took all this time to wind up through the channels to someone who could make a decision! You are the first response to this crisis we've received, and you're Exiles! I pray to the Heavens you can help, because if you can't, many more will die." "Well, how did this curse start?" "It all started five or six years ago, we aren't sure when the first symptoms showed up. The water started turning bitter, but we thought it was just runoff from the mountains. It caused people to choke if they had too much, then the plants and animals began to go, and diseases swept through the people. Worst was what happened to the children." "There seems to be no commonality to their symptoms from what we've seen." "You're right. Strange wasting disease such as we had never seen before. Many townsfolk and farmers died, and they all suffered. It was a long and slow wasting away." "What help can you give us?" "I doubt there is a person in the Vale who will not tell you all they can to aid your investigation. Whatever happens, the curse must be ended. In return, please occasionally report your progress to me. I would greatly appreciate it." "We will." "And the river through town." "Who are you?" This sickly girl would make an effective poster child for the ills afflicting Skylark Vale. She looks to be about eight, but struggles along like a woman ten times older. "Jovanna, who are you?" She shies away from you. "I'm Jenette," she says in a quiet voice. "And what do you do when you're out and about?" "I play, silly!" She twirls around slowly, her skin looks pale and gray in the sunlight. "But it's lonely." "I can believe that." "Most of my friends are gone. Taken away." "Away??" She looks confused. "Not around any more. And Levitz won't play. He's hiding." "And who is Levitz? We might talk them into playing with you again." "Well, that's not ominous at all."  "Ah, the uzual plze to find things." A lone man sits alone at the table, longbow near to hand. He is dividing his time between taking sips of beer and recoiling in disgust at the beer's taste. "There you are! Heard about your little hit near Marralis." He motions for you to join him. "I'm Bruning." "Danger, and the rest. What brings you to the Vale?" He sips his beer, gagging mildly. "Bounty hunting, if you must know." "Bounties? Really? You mean we could have been paid for the public service?" "Bandits. There's plenty of them around. Sweetgrove pays me to hunt them down. Tough work, and a hard place to live. But the pay is good. Pity the beer isn't better." "Innkeep." Nowhere is complete without an innkeeper, and Sweetgrove is no exception. The tired looking man behind the counter looks very relieved to see customers come in. He grabs a rag and cleans up the bar a bit. "I'm McKean. Good to see visitors!" "How goes the inn?" "Can't you tell?" He waves at the bar. "Business is slow, but I'll give you good service, cheap. We got a pleasant room for 5 gold, a good selection of rations and even fine Sweetgrove beer for 2 gold a mug!" "It's a trap!" "Shut up, you!" Taking a room here restores all HP and SP. Also, the game doesn't distinguish between types of food, so the Good Sandwich is the best buy here.  "A lead!" "Or a person who haz one." A small man sits before you, staring intently into a crystal. The stone is on the floor in front of him, in the middle of a runic circle. As you approach, he looks up from it. He nods in greeting. "I am Axel, Sage of Sweetgrove." "Zaka." "I know of your coming, adventurers. And no, not because of my divination. The Mayor keeps me posted. Alas, the most I can offer to help you with at this point is identification. My research is probably of little interest to you." He can identify items for us for 6GP each. Very cheap, and well worth it. "Yes, Karen was quite dismissive of you, but we find you much more pleazant to work with." He looks surprised as well as flattered that you asked. "Well, the main reason I came to the vale was to learn more of the School of Magery. Then, lately, I have been trying to determine the cause of the curse which has afflicted us." "It all comez back to the School." "Perhaps. It was a school in the Vale, which taught some of the wisest mages in the Empire. It was closed a century ago, and was sealed up. It was to the north of here. You can visit if you wish, however, you will likely find the same problems investigating as I did." "What Problems?" "Go up north and see for yourself. The mages who closed the place, they sealed it up well. I have been able to neither enter it, not find out why it was closed. Few even know of it. Have you been told about Avizo?" "Avizo? Yes." "Good. He was pretty sickly when he left last week, so he's probably still at the Fort. He told me he found a runed stone of some kind, and it might be relevant. Ask him about it." "We will." "Then that's our next stop." "Did you forget about us?"!
berryjon fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jul 17, 2022 |
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Jul 16, 2022 21:48
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This is giving me such sudden nostalgia; the only Exile game I ever played because the shareware version came on PC Format cd my dad bought in 1998. I remember the magazine reviewed Starcraft. Anyway, I'm fairly sure I finished the first module, it's amazing how much of this your brain can throw back up after 24 years. Also it's lovely to have more screenshot lps!
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Jul 16, 2022 23:48
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Ganglor posted:Also it's lovely to have more screenshot lps! I'm always on the lookout for SSLPs. I don't like video ones.
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Jul 17, 2022 01:42
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm always on the lookout for SSLPs. I don't like video ones. My dad does to, as he can read them at his own pace, on his own time. So yeah, SSLP's for the win!
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Jul 17, 2022 01:46
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Poor Zaka . Does he have any offensive capabilities to speak of against non-undead targets? I'd forgotten how cruel this engine could be to characters that can't get kills. EXP leakage from other party members is pretty slim pickings.
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Jul 17, 2022 03:15
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I mostly enjoy SSLPs and this one's turning out a fun one, I'd never noticed the Exile series before this popped up and I'm intrigued. No shortage of encounters in inconvenient spots that would lead to a gruesome end, will you be going back to deal with them in a more even fight often?
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Jul 17, 2022 07:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Poor Zaka He gets Wound, but the real offensive capacity kicks in with Priest 5 and Flamestrike. The real problem is that he's got so many traits that he's going to be the slowest leveler in the party. What will happen is that I will be trying to get enemies into Wound range for him to finish off, giving him the most XP, or the enemies will exceed him enough that the leak XP will be pretty large for him as he'll be behind on levels. edit; Zaka just hit level 2 taking out that bandit party from the end of the last update! berryjon fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jul 17, 2022 |
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Jul 17, 2022 13:19
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The priest problem is why I usually gave every caster in my parties 3 levels in mage so they could fireball.
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Jul 17, 2022 17:51
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GodFish posted:The priest problem is why I usually gave every caster in my parties 3 levels in mage so they could fireball. That's not a bad idea. I always give everyone at least 1 level in priest for minor heals. It's a small investment that really helps the long-term survivability of the party.
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Jul 17, 2022 18:13
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idhrendur, please check your PM
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Jul 17, 2022 19:21
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Quackles posted:I'm curious. What's your opinion on the modern 'statless' systems he uses in Queen's Wish, where there's a total of three skill trees and everyone can level in them if they have the skill points to do it? I've come to despise point buy systems with a burning passion. The issue as I see it is that people like them because they think that they'll somehow break the game by doing a clever build. In practice the developers usually have hidden soft or hard caps in place that prevent the builds from ever quite getting the numbers high enough to really break the curve. However that still leaves people open to accidentally making a build too weak to be fun or useful. So in practice on average a point buy system usually ends up with weaker-than-expected builds. If the developer knows what skills are good, how they interact with each other and what kinds of threats the players will face, they should stop being coy and just do the optimal point allocations at every level up. This also solves the issue of running into a hidden soft cap and removes the "no one makes you take it" justification for useless skills.
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Jul 18, 2022 10:14
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rastilin posted:I've come to despise point buy systems with a burning passion. Isn't it also about replay value? If every character develops along the optimal path every time then there's no reason to play it more than once, whereas with a buy-your-own-build system you can try out different things on future runs.
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Jul 18, 2022 12:50
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rastilin posted:I've come to despise point buy systems with a burning passion. I would take the opposite approach and be like "ok, you enjoy breaking a game with a clever point buy? awesome! Game's gonna be balanced for people who don't and will guide them to follow a sensible standard build but if you wanna find a gamebreaking combo then enjoy having a broken game"
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Jul 18, 2022 13:14
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Not to sound snarky, but isn't that what difficulty levels are for? People who know nothing about the game, people who know enough about the game, and people who know everything about the game? I'm following a Pathfinder CRPG playthrough on this forum right now and the highest difficulty levels are tuned for people who know how to min-max everything to a razor's edge.
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Jul 18, 2022 16:32
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One thing I forgot to mention about Queen's Wish is that skill allocation choices are not permanent. Whenever you're in a Haven fort, you can completely respec your characters. There are definitely some skills that are more useful than others (Haste-related stuff is particularly powerful, and Stunning Shot will carry you through a good chunk of the game because it also inflicts Slow), but I don't think anything in there is really bad.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:27
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| # ? May 6, 2024 07:07 |
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Vogel's games have definitely moved more and more towards systems where the player can't really end up moving too far away from the intended power curve, either ahead or behind. In Queen's Wish, this mostly manifests in the game requiring you to have substantial investments in lower-tier skills in order to unlock higher-tier skills. I think the result works, quite well in fact. But I do also think that he needs to spend so much time on refining the skills that he puts into the game, that the entire system ends up being less broad than it could otherwise be. Consequently, there's not as much room for customization of characters.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:57
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