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Black Robe posted:Isn't it also about replay value? If every character develops along the optimal path every time then there's no reason to play it more than once, whereas with a buy-your-own-build system you can try out different things on future runs. Perhaps, but how many people replay a game just to try out different builds. I think far more people replay to escape a few false starts before giving up without really finishing all the way through. Or just play once, not really get it and then play something else. I'm essentially suggesting that there should be a recommended build that the game developers are willing to stand behind and have the game judged by. Whybird posted:I would take the opposite approach and be like "ok, you enjoy breaking a game with a clever point buy? awesome! Game's gonna be balanced for people who don't and will guide them to follow a sensible standard build but if you wanna find a gamebreaking combo then enjoy having a broken game" That would be great. My main complaint is that hidden soft and hard caps on values often make actually breaking the game be impossible, but you won't know that until you've already sunk a massive amount of time and effort into getting through the game with a specific build. There are plenty of builds that start out well and then drop off in usability at a specific point. If you run into this, do you just restart? Even with respec, that doesn't help if you need specific items for the new build. JustJeff88 posted:Not to sound snarky, but isn't that what difficulty levels are for? People who know nothing about the game, people who know enough about the game, and people who know everything about the game? I'm following a Pathfinder CRPG playthrough on this forum right now and the highest difficulty levels are tuned for people who know how to min-max everything to a razor's edge. Pathfinder's first CRPG was just relentlessly savage, I'm playing through it now and the steam reviews were right, the game is just straight up unfair at various points. I'll have to find that let's play because I'm definitely interested in seeing someone min-max it. Some of the encounters were so tilted they had a good chance of just wiping out the party almost instantly, before you could mount any realistic defense.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:58
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JustJeff88 posted:Not to sound snarky, but isn't that what difficulty levels are for? People who know nothing about the game, people who know enough about the game, and people who know everything about the game? I'm following a Pathfinder CRPG playthrough on this forum right now and the highest difficulty levels are tuned for people who know how to min-max everything to a razor's edge. It definitely is the golden ideal but I find this tends to fall apart in practice because the difficulty spike of high difficulties tends to hit hardest in the early game when you have the least options and least actual effect for the optimization. Largely because difficulty modes tend to just be a blanket tweaking of the numbers not in your favor across the board. I've only encountered one game with adjustable difficulty that managed to avoid this trap. Otherwise it's usually a mess of inflated stats that forces you to do some really stupid tricks to survive early game that aren't necessary later on.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:55
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Quackles posted:One thing I forgot to mention about Queen's Wish is that skill allocation choices are not permanent. Whenever you're in a Haven fort, you can completely respec your characters. Kind of the new flavour of Bless/Curse stacking from the early games. I think that the Exile games still hold up well in every way except visually, obviously, and lacking signposting. Sadly, these were also before the era where Jeff made detailed guides for every release. rastilin posted:Pathfinder's first CRPG was just relentlessly savage, I'm playing through it now and the steam reviews were right, the game is just straight up unfair at various points. I'll have to find that let's play because I'm definitely interested in seeing someone min-max it. Some of the encounters were so tilted they had a good chance of just wiping out the party almost instantly, before you could mount any realistic defense. There's an SSLP of the second game, Wrath of the Righteous, that just started on this forum, which is what I was referring to. I was told by many that the first game was brutal and, if I ever play it, it will be on a loooow difficulty level even though I know what I'm doing fairly well. I play games for fun, not for challenge. Life is cruel and difficult, games should be light fun. I don't think that I've ever played System Shock 2 on anything higher than easy, and I say that without a hint of shame. Whybird posted:I would take the opposite approach and be like "ok, you enjoy breaking a game with a clever point buy? awesome! Game's gonna be balanced for people who don't and will guide them to follow a sensible standard build but if you wanna find a gamebreaking combo then enjoy having a broken game" Could this be addressed by an automatic buy feature that can be enabled for non-minmaxers which is designed to create a sensible, cogent, intuitive build that isn't designed to wring every plus possible? Auto-allocate might not be 'optimal', but it would at least not make for utterly useless characters if it's implimented with even a bit of sense. Keldulas posted:I've only encountered one game with adjustable difficulty that managed to avoid this trap. I would like very much to know which game you have in mind here. I can't even play Diablo 2 on Hell difficulty because it's so bloody contrived.
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Jul 18, 2022 21:59
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Vogel's games have definitely moved more and more towards systems where the player can't really end up moving too far away from the intended power curve, either ahead or behind. In Queen's Wish, this mostly manifests in the game requiring you to have substantial investments in lower-tier skills in order to unlock higher-tier skills. Whybird posted:I would take the opposite approach and be like "ok, you enjoy breaking a game with a clever point buy? awesome! Game's gonna be balanced for people who don't and will guide them to follow a sensible standard build but if you wanna find a gamebreaking combo then enjoy having a broken game" So, a bit of background. I've been beta testing for Jeff Vogel for the past decade or so. When I started, I was informed in the welcome email that Spiderweb testers tend to skew towards being min-maxers, and honestly, I believe it. (If you beta test a Spiderweb game, you'll get asked back to test the next one - which means an experienced tester pool.) Jeff is aware that his beta tester pool has people who will find any sort of cheesy strategy on the regular. But in addition to looking for bugs, he's in the awkward position of having to rely on said tester pool for balance advice, to ensure encounters are properly easy (or difficult). I suspect this tension has led him towards systems where it's harder to min-max. (Lately, he's also started recruiting additional testers from Kickstarter, which I suspect has helped some, too.) Side note: I still think Redbeard in the first Avadon game is too hard of a fight. I just barely managed to squeak out a win and then Jeff went and made it harder later.
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Jul 18, 2022 22:54
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I feel like most of the recent Spidweb games have handled the difficulty curve fairly well. I've seen a few people stream the new Geneforge game and Queen's Wish and as long as the person is willing to read the descriptions and put an ounce of thought into it, they generally still end up with a reasonably viable character/team to get through Easy/Casual difficulty. Quackles posted:Side note: I still think Redbeard in the first Avadon game is too hard of a fight. I just barely managed to squeak out a win and then Jeff went and made it harder later.
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Jul 18, 2022 23:04
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MagusofStars posted:I didn't play Avadon because I just lost interest in it, but from what I've heard, there's a huge thing about the fight that people don't realize: You can actually recruit all four party members to go along with you. Every other mission of the game has only had two buddies and there's no indication whatsoever that this is an option, so you have no way to know this, but the battle is fully designed around you bringing everybody. But even with this, the general consensus seems to be that fight is unquestionably the worst one Jeff has ever designed in his entire career. Ohhhh yes. 100% agreed with you. Believe me, that fight is impossibly hard, even bringing everybody along. Quackles fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 18, 2022 |
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Jul 18, 2022 23:14
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MagusofStars posted:I feel like most of the recent Spidweb games have handled the difficulty curve fairly well. I've seen a few people stream the new Geneforge game and Queen's Wish and as long as the person is willing to read the descriptions and put an ounce of thought into it, they generally still end up with a reasonably viable character/team to get through Easy/Casual difficulty. I did the last parts of that game unreasonably early in the morning and first time through I managed to not kill the previous boss and then beat him with two party members to immediately take my highly annoyed rear end to forums where before I posted I spent half a second reading, discovered you could bring everyone, went back in the game to see if it was at all reasonable, realized I hadn't actually saved between before the previous boss and the BBEG, no autosaves or anything, which now that I write it strikes me as odd, I'm not sure if Avadon had autosaves or not, I think it did and I may just have been playing far too early and too late to use them, and then managed to fail to not kill the previous boss. Haven't touched that game since then.
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Jul 18, 2022 23:28
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SIGSEGV posted:I'm not sure if Avadon had autosaves or not, I think it did and I may just have been playing far too early and too late to use them, and then managed to fail to not kill the previous boss. It had autosaves, but I don't remember if it was the "every X minutes if you're not in combat mode" type, or the "whenever you leave the change maps" type. I admit that I quicksave at every opportunity, because stumbling into some monsters around a corner while unprepared - especially at Veteran difficulty and above - can be lethal in a big hurry.
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Jul 18, 2022 23:33
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JustJeff88 posted:There's an SSLP of the second game, Wrath of the Righteous, that just started on this forum, which is what I was referring to. I was told by many that the first game was brutal and, if I ever play it, it will be on a loooow difficulty level even though I know what I'm doing fairly well. I play games for fun, not for challenge. Life is cruel and difficult, games should be light fun. I don't think that I've ever played System Shock 2 on anything higher than easy, and I say that without a hint of shame. I've only played the first game so far, it's been great, but the difficulty is fairly brutal and there's several points where, if you don't have a guide or just get lucky it can make the game essentially unwinnable. I've also started playing games on easy. Largely for the same reasons as you. A lot of the time the harder difficulties are just there to pad out the game and waste your time. It's fine if you lose due to a superior strategy, but almost always the game nails the player with a cheap shot that they couldn't realistically have seen coming, or an AI only rule that railroads the player into making bad decisions. For example: (new) XCOM's enemies don't appear on the map until the player moves over them, then they always move first even on the player's turn. This means you can't set up a choke point or have your troops catch them out of cover with a rapid advance, so the optimal strategy is always a super slow advance from cover to cover using overwatch. Same with many "strategy" games, if the AI just creates fleets and units it's not resource constrained, and that means that logistics based strategies, which are the bread and butter of actual, real strategic thinking just don't work at all. So the player is forced into using a game only non-strategy to win. At that point a higher difficulty is sort of just wasting your time. Second example: I stopped playing Pool of Radiance at the first "boss" fight, you're both outleveled and out matched. So of course the moment the cutscene triggers the player's party walks into the dead center of the boss room and lets the opposition surround them before the fight kicks off. In a game that's already punishing, this makes a hard fight be effectively impossible. I am not a fan of roguelikes either.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:02
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JustJeff88 posted:I would like very much to know which game you have in mind here. I can't even play Diablo 2 on Hell difficulty because it's so bloody contrived. Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest. The increasing difficulties don't just apply a blanket stat buff that makes the enemy units all automatically better than you on an individual basis, so every unit can actually potentially contribute rather than forcing you to use a singular juggernaut unit. Instead, the difficulty increase tends to manifest more in how the map as a whole tries to overwhelm you rather than just making every enemy unit a stat juggernaut. It's very precisely designed rather than just adding +7 defense to everything or whatever. Compare it with one of its sister games, Revelation, where one of the regular enemy types on the same difficulty are functionally undamageable by the majority of your cast in the early game. Conquest gets ridiculous in the late-game where they overstacked some enemy advantages, and some of the map gimmicks end up pretty bad in execution, but those are different problems. Conquest still avoids the nonsense of early game difficulty wall that X:Com Enemy Unknown and others run straight into.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:33
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rastilin posted:I am not a fan of roguelikes either. With the exception of ToeJam & Earl for the Mega Drive, me either. Any game where I can suddenly die to RNG and lose hours of progress is not fun. Keldulas posted:Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest. The increasing difficulties don't just apply a blanket stat buff that makes the enemy units all automatically better than you on an individual basis, so every unit can actually potentially contribute rather than forcing you to use a singular juggernaut unit. Instead, the difficulty increase tends to manifest more in how the map as a whole tries to overwhelm you rather than just making every enemy unit a stat juggernaut. It's very precisely designed rather than just adding +7 defense to everything or whatever. Compare it with one of its sister games, Revelation, where one of the regular enemy types on the same difficulty are functionally undamageable by the majority of your cast in the early game. That's rather clever. I have to admit that know nothing about the FE series and have never played it, but I have heard plenty of horror stories about how if you lose one veteran unit then the campaign is borked.
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Jul 19, 2022 22:39
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Permadeath is part of the FE series, but really it functionally acts as a map restart button. Though since ironman FE challenges do exist, there is something to be said about unit loss probably being more possible to play through than people actually think. The maps are generally designed around fulfilling the objectives without losing units. The good FEs make this an interesting challenge. The bad FEs have designed mechanics based around sucker-punching the player to snipe a unit and force a map restart.
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Jul 19, 2022 22:51
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I like a good discussion as much as the next LP'er, but can it please be related to this game/series? So while I'm working on the next update, if any of you have requests/suggestions for scenarios (starting from this list, but there are other links) you want to see me do next, I'm more than willing to accommodate.
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Jul 19, 2022 23:45
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Scenario 1 - The Valley of Dying Things Chapter 5 - To the School of Magery   "No, I hadn't forgotten about you. Though I wish I had."  "Your HP or your GP!" "What does that even mean?" "Shut up! I thought it was cool!"    So, as has been pointed out in the thread, and something I knew was coming, we're running into the "Priest Problem" of the early game. Shared by PCs using trowing and archery based weapons, unless you're throwing around Fireball, or are Melee oriented, you simply aren't killing enemies and then gaining XP fast enough to keep up with everyone else. My temporary solution is, when I get into random over-world fights, is to haste Zaka, Bless them for good measure, and then have everyone else weaken them up and allow Zaka to cast Wound, a Priest Level 2 spell which kills them. This quickly pays dividends, as you can see above, the fight with the Brigands I just got into gives Zaka their 2nd Level.  "Here iz hoping he hazn't fled yet."  "YOU!" "Oh no! I found it funny that when I stepped in, he stepped out, so I got a second picture. "Oh no you don't!" He grabs Avizo roughly by the collar, the emaciated man unable to fight him. "You knew that something was up with the School of Magery, and now you're trying to run away with the Stone? His eyes widen. "Why do you wish to know of that? I had thought all thought my quest was futile." "A Quest? You thought all this was some fancy quest?!?!?" He is wracked by a coughing spasm, enough that Taylor lets him sit down. When he straightens up again, his lips are flecked with red. "I'm not doing well. Someone should know. There are caves north of Sweetgrove. I was trying to explore them." "Try again. We know about the caves, we know about the School." "A lot of people know about them, but what do they know? Why here? There's locked doors, something to do with the mages who worked there. I thought it might have had something to do with the Curse, so I tried to open one of the doors." "And this interests me, how?" "I searched around them, and found a round stone. It had runes on it, and matched a depression on one of the doors. I put the stone in, and it glowed briefly, but nothing else. It terrified me, so I fled. Then, I got sick. No more exploring for me. I stored the object back in Sweetgrove." "Nothing can be easy. Where in Sweetgrove?" "Yes! Go back to Sweetgrove. It's in my store. Avizo's Supplies. I was leaving as fast as I could, barely remembered to turn on the ward runes. The stone was left behind. It might have rolled behind a plant?" He shakes his head. "I should have left sooner." "That's good enough for me. C'mon, let's go get that stone, and then the School." "No." "No?" "Captain, do you have maps of the Vale?" "Yes. Yes I do. Give me a minute, and I will correct that." "Thank you." "I apologize." "Apology accepted." After 3 full games, you finally get to see the character editor! Oh god, I'm going to have to show off the Scenario Editor, aren't I? "My apologies for the delay, here you go." "Thank you. Johnson, here, you take these." "Hope those help." "They will." "Let's see... wow, Imperial Map Sectors are just a little too big to be held comfortably in a person's hand, aren't they?" "Let's see... I see a small side-valley to the east there." "We're headed to the School, remember?" "Nothing saying we can't be complete in our examination of the extent of the damage."   "Nothing much, I think?" "Just loot." "Next page shows Sweetgrove at least."  "I knew it! Volcanic activity." "But no way to get there without equipment we don't have, or flying." "Not true, there iz that side valley that might have access." "No access." "What's that?"  "This sounds like removing a problem before it gets too big." "You're an idiot!" This... could be a problem. That Apprentice Mage knows Slow and a couple offensive spells for starters, plus those Archers can turn people into pincushions right quick. If I had Level 4 Spells like Curse All, or Slow All, this could be better handled. As it is, this could go bad very quickly. "Great, he's a summoner!" "Behold my Might Power!"  "It's a Goblin." "I'm trying, ok? Why do you have to be so mean! Go! GobFlet!" "Behold, my maces!" I got lucky, the enemy set themselves up for good Fireballing, even though the AI tries to avoid clumping up like that. That did a number on their numbers. allowing Hox to charge in and beat face while my three Archers did their thing, and Zaka provided support.  "Hey, a quiver of Iron Arrows! These will come in handy." That Bonus of 2 is basically a +2 for all you DnD players out there, meaning it affects both to-Hit and to-Damage rolls. Just without being magic, because Magic is a +4 or a special ability. "Let me pop the lock..." "Left or right?" "Makez no difference."     "Cooper, check the shelves and desk, I'll look at the plant." "Got it." "Next stop, the School." "By his map, the best way to get there is just to follow the river north." On the way, I get into a few random encounters. Goblins... Bears - that run away because me aggregate level is too high for them! And more brigands. People level up. "There it is. "We szold see to the water before the School, if it iz clean or not." "Agreed." "But we'll be passing by the School anyways, so why not check?" "In favor!" "Aye." "Passed." "Nothing out of the uzual." "What's written there?" "Anyone knows what that code means?" "Sure, let me send a letter to this guy I know in Empire Occupational Health and Safety and ask him." "You know a guy?" "Yeah, but he's a bookworm, really."  "Here goes nothing." "Ah!" "Thiz is a combination lock! All four cardinal access points must be activated for all the gates to be raised." "What." "Are you telling me that people couldn't get in... because they didn't use all the doors?!?!" "Yes." "The poison must have rotted their brains. Come on, let's get to it."  "South and West, next is north."  "Hrmmmm." "OK, we'll head upriver, check it out now, then loop back to get the last door." "It looks good." "Not a viable ford." "It iz ... safe." "They're idiots. Morons. Utter and complete imbeciles!" "That, or this was deliberate. The source of the pollution has to be in the School. But what, why and how do we stop it still remain to be seen." "Let's loop back now." "You can even tell which areas are still uncontaminated... why did no one try to move back this way?" "Don't touch." "Not touching." "If I'm reading this map right, the west access should be accessible by the river."  "More proof that people are drooling idiots." "I don't drool!" "You're not an idiot." "hiss" "That's odd."  Don't let the stats fool you, three hits in a single action can be quite lethal. "And here we go."      "Hurray for basic competency!"  "Guard up though, those are bones. Not recent." "Wait, how did Goblins get in?" "Slipped through the bars?" "Irrelevant. Kill them."   "Must have kept horses in here. But why the farthest stalls from the most viable exits?" "A Wizard did it." "That maps." "Aw, poor horsey." "That's it for the North-west. Let's go around in a circle, and see what we find." "Oh no." "That's not a good thing.  Webbing is an environmental hazard that can be created by spiders and a few spells. Every time a person is webbed, they lose 1 AP. If they are webbed to the point of having 0AP, they lose their turn entirely. You can remove web either by passing your turn, or by (U)sing the tile in question. It's also the number one killer of solo characters, light-years ahead of the next most lethal thing - Basilisks See! "That's cleared out, but I'm running low on missiles. I'll need resupply or be reduced to this knife." "And I'm down to my last bolts too, been using this Sling." "Central hallway down into the mountain. Later."  "No."  "Get ready, I hear more Goblins." "I hate being right." "But we appear to be done." "Nothing." "Stll nothing. Just bedding." "Might as well." "I regret this already!" "Oh, Giant rats. At least these are easy enough." "Very easy."  "Such a waste." "And just a couple dump holes. Seriously? If this was all caused by improperly disposed of trash, I'm going to murder someone." "Get in line." "OK, here's the plan. We get back to town, restock, get some practice in, see if we can get some ammo for Cooper and Taylor..." "Who?" "Me." "Sorry, my mistake." "Get some missiles, and then make for deeper into the school. This place has to have some connection to the source of the problem, and now that we're in, we're it. Who the hell knows how long an Empire response is going to take. Any questions?" "When do we start?" First stop, training. Strength +2, Assassination +1 Intelligence +1, Mage +1, SP +6 Strength +1, Thrown +2, Archery +1, Luck +2 Strength +1, Archery +1 Intelligence +1, Priest +1, SP +2 Strength+1, Archery +1 "Now, resources."
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Jul 20, 2022 00:18
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berryjon posted:
Oh god, basilisks. That's an enemy that's been hilariously lethal in every Spiderweb game they've been in - even the new ones. Petrification stopped being permanent as of Avernum 4,* but 'lisks will happily stunlock you into oblivion anyway. *Or even the original Avernum, as opposed to Exile. I forget. Quackles fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 01:13
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The thing about basilisks is that you get a saving throw against petrification, and if your solo character has Magically Apt and has prioritized Intelligence (as they should), they'll very rarely miss that saving throw. It's still terrifying to fight basilisks, because you're one bad throw from a total party wipe, but in practice they're not that deadly. A group of spiders, though? There is no saving throw against getting webbed. If you get webbed four times*, you lose your turn, and all of your enemies get another chance to spend their plentiful AP on webbing you again. Mind you, they probably can't kill you very effectively, but they're very good at making you give up and reload a save. *six times if you have a Ring of Speed and Boots of Speed
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Jul 20, 2022 01:25
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The thing about basilisks is that you get a saving throw against petrification, and if your solo character has Magically Apt and has prioritized Intelligence (as they should), they'll very rarely miss that saving throw. It's still terrifying to fight basilisks, because you're one bad throw from a total party wipe, but in practice they're not that deadly. Honestly, it sounds like modern-design basilisks behave almost exactly like classic-design spiders.
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Jul 20, 2022 01:36
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Can't believe you saw a perfectly good skull and didn't pick it up. berryjon posted:So while I'm working on the next update, if any of you have requests/suggestions for scenarios (starting from this list, but there are other links) you want to see me do next, I'm more than willing to accommodate. 2.) Islands of the Wheel is one of the highest rated and the mention of "strange terrain" sounds interesting. It's listed as medium/high difficulty so idk if we'd be ready right out of this scenario though.
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Jul 20, 2022 02:08
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The three Vogel scenarios are more or less intended to be played back-to-back with the same party, as I recall. You don't have to do that, but if you want to drop into A Small Rebellion with a new group, they should probably be of roughly similar power as the current group when it finishes Valley of the Dying Things. I like the idea of spacing the official scenarios out, though!
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Jul 20, 2022 02:10
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:A group of spiders, though? There is no saving throw against getting webbed. If you get webbed four times*, you lose your turn, and all of your enemies get another chance to spend their plentiful AP on webbing you again. Mind you, they probably can't kill you very effectively, but they're very good at making you give up and reload a save. Jeff Vogel has heard your pleas, and has delivered unto you SALVATION! 
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Jul 20, 2022 02:11
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Firstly, do not feed or fireball the bears. Secondly, and I'm ashamed to admit this, but I'm lost on the plot. I thought that you went to the mage school to get a stone, but when you arrived you already had it to open the four cardinal directions. What did I miss?
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Jul 20, 2022 02:28
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JustJeff88 posted:Secondly, and I'm ashamed to admit this, but I'm lost on the plot. I thought that you went to the mage school to get a stone, but when you arrived you already had it to open the four cardinal directions. What did I miss? Right, so asking around leads to the party being told that Azivo, the man in charge of the Supplies Shop in Sweetgrove, was poking around the School of Magery. We learn he found something that spooked him, a stone of some sort. The party then goes back to the Fort and asks him about the stone, where poking him into a confessional leads to him telling you where the stone is in his house - in a plant. With the Stone, the PCs go to the School, and while they try on the first door, only to fail, some exploration will reveal that there are multiple doors. So the PCs will probably try them all, even going around the West side of the school because logically there should be something there given the other three locations. Once the Stone is used on all four doors, the School opens, and we can advance to the next plot point.
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Jul 20, 2022 02:37
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berryjon posted:Right, so asking around leads to the party being told that Azivo, the man in charge of the Supplies Shop in Sweetgrove, was poking around the School of Magery. We learn he found something that spooked him, a stone of some sort. The party then goes back to the Fort and asks him about the stone, where poking him into a confessional leads to him telling you where the stone is in his house - in a plant. Why would the party go back to the Fort to talk to Azivo? Wouldn't they just go to his shop in Sweetgrove? Isn't the Fort where this module began?
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Jul 20, 2022 02:49
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JustJeff88 posted:Why would the party go back to the Fort to talk to Azivo? Wouldn't they just go to his shop in Sweetgrove? Isn't the Fort where this module began? It's a hidden flag. You have to be told to talk to Azivo with a certain keyword to unlock the location of the stone. If you enter his shop and go for the potted plant without being told about it, you don't find anything. Remember, Jeff is using this scenario to introduce new players to the way the game works, and this includes showing the players how not all conversations are accessible from the initial dialogue tree. Rather, you need to be told what to talk to people about in order to get them to talk about it. They won't volunteer that information. It's the same - in this scenario - with Pergles, the guy in the small hut with the two talking animals. He won't actually say anything to you until you name-drop "Kevin" on him, which Kevin himself tells you to do get him to open up.
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Jul 20, 2022 02:54
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JustJeff88 posted:Why would the party go back to the Fort to talk to Azivo? Wouldn't they just go to his shop in Sweetgrove? Isn't the Fort where this module began? berryjon posted:It's a hidden flag. You have to be told to talk to Azivo with a certain keyword to unlock the location of the stone. If you enter his shop and go for the potted plant without being told about it, you don't find anything. Also, from an in-game perspective, all the party knows is that Avizo visited the school. For all you know, the way in could be a hidden cave or a secret ritual or something. So they go back to the Fort to question Avizo and figure out how he got in...and then the truth is that he actually didn't enter the school - he found the opening stone, put it in one of the depressions, then it glowed for a second and stopped, then he fled in terror because nothing happened (the gently caress? really?). Then he caught the sickness and has basically been quarantined in the Fort ever since.
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Jul 20, 2022 02:59
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MagusofStars posted:then he fled in terror because nothing happened (the gently caress? really?). There's a reason why Shinwell is now of the opinion that everyone in the Valley is cosmically stupid. There are multiple sources of fresh water, a very specific location where the contamination originates from though simply observation, and no-one in the Valley has two braincells to rub together to realize what is going on.
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Jul 20, 2022 03:09
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The strange mystery of the contaminated water and the incompetent people continues on for this party of adventurers. How much mileage is Hox getting out of his ambidextrous dual mace wielding, compared to a non-ambidextrous dual mace wielder, or a single-mace user?
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Jul 20, 2022 03:09
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I'm actually somewhat invested in the story now, which I don't often say. I was very invested in the story of jon's Exile 1-3 playthroughs, but that goes without saying. However, I'm not sure if the solution will turn out to be interesting or comically stupid because this is a training scenario.
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Jul 20, 2022 04:46
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm actually somewhat invested in the story now, which I don't often say. I was very invested in the story of jon's Exile 1-3 playthroughs, but that goes without saying. There was a reason why Bob, OSHA Inspector, from my failed attempt those years ago gets a shoutout here. The answer is YES.
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Jul 20, 2022 04:58
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It's pretty simple: everyone with half a brain left as soon as the symptoms showed up. The people who are still left...do not have half a brain.
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Jul 20, 2022 05:08
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Suggesting that the 'curse' might be the Empire's fault is bordering on treason, citizen.
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Jul 20, 2022 05:42
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So the school is probably responsible, but the fact that they have an incinerator and this problem still arose is.... special.
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Jul 20, 2022 08:23
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Keldulas posted:So the school is probably responsible, but the fact that they have an incinerator and this problem still arose is.... special. Incinerators don't do poo poo for heavy metal poisoning. Probably a bunch of other kinds of toxins that can survive an incinerator, for that matter. Plus, whatever the problem is, it's probably related to the large waste disposal/storage we saw referenced in the most recent update. Who knows how that's [not] being dealt with.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:53
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Remember, the school was shut down a century ago, while the 'curse' only started in the past five years or so, and reached critical levels in the past year. This has been a long time in the making, and we don't have all the information yet.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:02
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Scenario 1 - The Valley of Dying Things Chapter 6 - The Valley  "Alright, resource collection time." The purpose of this update is to do most of the optional stuff in the Valley, level up a couple of our stragglers, and get prepped for the School. I could probably handle it right now, but honestly, I'd rather be over-powered while playing the game and hide how easy it is so you can enjoy my writing, than have a slog through the game and let that leak over into my work. "We know there's a town between here and Marallis, so why not check it out?" "And see what stupidity resides there?" "That too, yes." "Odd, the map shows there to be a town at the end of the road here, but it's been crossed out." "Abandoned most likely."  "Thiz iz gone." "Very gone." "Looks like the town is up here, in this hill." "Alternate water source." "Zaka has a point, if the water is flowing westward, then if it's contaminated, then the School might not be the source." "For all we know, the water could branch off and come from behind us, then split both north and west." "Or we could go find out." "Actually, let's double-back for a moment, I want to see what's on the north side of the river." "Still good here." "Pure." "Hey, does the map show some valleys up here?" "Yes."  "These remind me of the same markings in that place on the south side of the Valley." "Danger." "Yes?" "Not you, this place."   "Oh dear." And me without Curse All or Slow All. Not good! In fact, I reload and decided that I can't win this fight now. Maybe later. "No sense in disturbing the dead. Let's head back." "Hrm, that looks accessible."  "Through here. Ther iz zafe passage, but we will need to heal as we go to avoid the worzt of the heat." "I'm good with that."  "And we are through." "That drake on the other side of the valley wanted one of these." "And no one else in the Valley would afford the price of one." "Having a drake be friendly iz a good thing." "Agreed."  "Let uz get this to the drake." One quick march later. "Here." "We return." SLOW GROUP!  SLOW GROUP "Now, we just need to tezt this." "Your HP or your GP!" "Ask, and ye shall receive." Slow Group works on the enemy differently than it does on the PCs. PCs lose half their AP when slowed. Enemies... lose every second turn. This means that you, as the player, get double turns when facing a slowed group, and for those of you new to this series, this is one of the lynchpin spells in the game. Getting it is just as powerful, if not more-so than higher level spells. "That iz a dead volcano." "Nothing up these side valleys, not even mines." "This one does."  "Oh, that's a lot."  "Clear!"  A rare shot of Fireball in action.  "And that was that."  "More." "No, these breathe fire." And they love to do that, dishing out a lot of fire damage. "Probably just a location sign." This also tells us, based on actual distances moved, that in this scenario, each tile is half a mile, not a full mile, like in previous games. "Blinlock. What dumbness awaits us here." "I'm looking forward to it." "I can feel the sarcasm from back here." "Nothing out of the ordinary."  "Well, let's get this over with." Anyone in the food prep industry... avert your eyes. This woman is clearly sick. But fortunately not with an affliction caused by the Vale's curse. She has a cold. She's kneading a large wad of bread dough and almost never coughs on it.  "Ah, what are you doing?" "I make bread. That's what I usually do, but have all sort of rations on top of that." "How is the bread?" "My bread has been quite in demand in the Vale lately." "In demand? Why?" She gives each of you a small bit of bread to taste. It lacks the bitter, acrid smell of the rest of the Vale's food and water. "Lately, the only way to get palatable food is to come to me. I don't know why. Just lucky, I guess." "I doubt luck has anything to do with it." "I don't know what makes my bread special, I just do everything the same way. Get water, make flour, the works." "What about your rations??" "Well, since the miners left, I've had nobody to sell food to." "What do you mean, the miners left?" "I don't know much about the mine. Some disturbance in the mine. I guess. Brown would know more about that. He's in city hall." "Thank you for your time." Pass "It's clean." "There's another source of clean water?!?"  "Ah, Thiz is where Brown rexides." "It was next door." "That does not mean I lie."  Considering all the disasters that have beset the Vale recently, Blinlock's administration seems rather laid back. He runs fingers through his hair to make sure it's straight, then leans back in his chair to speak with you. "Hey here. Just call me Brown. I'm the administrator for the mines. Compared to what the rest of the Vale has endured, I'm having an easy time of it." "What could you possibly be having that would be easy?" "The mines situation can be summed up in one word - Undead." "Undead." "While digging in the mines, we accidentally exposed an ancient crypt. The spirit inside lost no time in killing some miners, summoning help, and taking over. I have a task for you, if you wish, with quite a reward." "Let me guess, the task is to destroy the Spirit?" "Got it in one! The mines are in the northeast corner of town, nothing serious yet as it's mostly exploratory. Bit of silver though, though with the spirit it all wouldn't be accounted for." He winks.. "Go in there and slay the spirit which has summoned the undead and I will reward you well. Good luck." "I'm game." "Aye." "Aye." "Aye." "Aye." "Aye." "Aye. What? You were all getting in on it." "What about the curse in the Vale itself?" "Weird. We've had almost no trouble with the curse. The water is clean, the diseases minimal. We know what we're doing with our Silver mine, but you know about that problem. Keeping the water free of contaminants is something the Empire drills into the people in charge of mines. Can you imagine?" "no"   "Nothing of interest here."  "Ah, ho there!" Why a traveling merchant would want to come to Skylark Vale, you have no idea. Yet, here one is, ready to sell you wares. Maybe he got lost. "Hail and well met. You are?" He pulls a massive pack off his back, opens it and bows humbly. "I am Unger. Care to sample my wares, sir? Or Ma'am. I have no idea what you are." "Tokka, Sithzerikai. Male. What of your warez, human?" "I have all manner of wares which I have been carting about the Vale. You are lucky to catch me - I am often on the move." "Where do you move?" "I move quickly between Blinlock and Marralis. Sadly, business in th Vale has been very good." "The nature of your business?" "I mainly carry adventuring supplies, which is a very safe item to be selling in any area afflicted by troubles. Between plague, bandits and people leaving, I have been busy, busy, busy!" "You call profit from harm busy?" "I am not made glad by their misfortunes, and I am more than happy to sell them the healing potions, weapons and armor they need to get by. Of course, I am busy and cannot talk all day. Care to purchase something for yourself?" Unger is this scenario's "Random Shop", which as the name implies, can carry any item in the scenario, which includes scenario-specific items, or, more commonly, the general list of items in the Scenario editor, up to a specific limit. The readers of my Exile 3 LP may recall my sheer exasperation at finding more Magic Platemails than I had party members in the Random Shops. Anyway, Unger's prices are a 100% markup, doubling the base value of the item. That Steel Halberd is the sort of equipment that could see a character all the way to level 50, but it is well and truly out of my price range, and will be long after the shop shuffles its inventory. "And you, ma'am? Who might you be?" You meet an wiry, perpetually annoyed woman. She paces the streets in a profoundly aggravated state. Her clothes and fingernails show the dirt of a lifetime's mining. "Call be Littleford. I'm a miner, or at least, I was." "We heard about the mine. Anything you want to get off your chest?" "I'm a foreman at the silver digs. I keep the workers in line, and try to keep up to date on the latest advancements in the field." "What's it like, being a foreman?" "It's like trying to keep all of you in line, that's what." She spits in anger. "Ask me again after we can get back to work! I can't do anything with those damnable creatures in the pits." "Anything you can tell us about that creature?" "Ask Brown, he'll fill you in on what happened. Good work for adventurers, if you know what I mean." "We do, in fact, know what you mean. But what's this about the field you work in?" "The usual, trying to improve mine efficiency and all that." She looks you over. "You know, being who you are, you might have occasion to go over to the old School of Magery. If you ever find information that could help improve our mines, bring it here. I'll make it worth your while." "Deal."  "I can see through the windows, it's empty."  "Same."  "Rezidences for the miners."  "We'll come back to this after we've finished talking to the locals."  "I wonder what surface mining equipment looks like?"  "Like everyone else's." "Sill clear and good. Seriously?!?"  "Last building, then the mines."  The foundry is run by a lone man with excellent hair, who seems hard pressed to keep up with his job. When he sees you, however, he immediately ceases his labors to speak with you. "I'm Killborn, can we make this quick? I'm looking after things by myself today." "Of courz. What do you do here?" "I'm in charge of the foundry, and I have some weapons as well. But now that you're here, I wanted to discuss something with you." "Let us zee what you have to sell first." I just bought Iron gear! Now this!?!?! ARGGHTEGOJKEHTY*)(@#TY PIOHT(&*)#@)TY( "And what iz it you wish to discuss?" "You're here to remove the curse. Well, we've all suffered by it, but I've noticed something. Nobody here seems too inclined to figure out it's origins."  "What have you considered regarding the origins?" He smiles somewhat smugly. "I have thought about it. And I don't have any answers. I can't just up and leave here. But I believe that asking the right questions is an important step in solving any problem. And I've reduced this problem to five questions that have to be answered if the curse is to be removed." !!! "What are theze questions?" "The Cause. The Timing. The Effect. The Placement. The Solution." "What caused the curse? The effect was and is so powerful and long-lasting, that something very impressive must have brought it about. Why haven't we seen this cause? "As for the timing? Nothing unusual happened when the curse started. It just appeared out of nowhere. Isn't that peculiar?"  "The effect is easy to understand. The Curse is in the water. The bitter, burning water was the first thing that anyone noticed as being unusual. Why the water? What happened to it?" "The placement of the Curse is odd as well. Why Skylark Vale? Why not somewhere else? What do we have that makes us different from the other dull, boring and backwater places the Empire is full of?" "And finally, the solution. How can the curse be removed? To answer that, you must go to the source. Once the first four questions are answered, the fifth must follow logically, and easy." "Marry me." "Not my type."  If you're wondering where all the intelligence in the Vale went, well, here he is. "Well, time to hit the mines." "Hopefully, they do not hit back. Slow Group only works on line-of-sight." "Not a lot of space here, but they did say it was a starter mine." "Staging and rest." "Supplies. Helmet looks good." "And the entrance to the mine itself." "And this is going to be a thing, isn't it?" "That are not tough."   "And that's the first wave taken care of. Let's see what else is next." "More zombies." "Ore, and gloves." "Take them on back here." "What iz that?" "What?"     HAHAHAHAHA! Oh god, this guy can ruin your day. And ruined mine, that's for sure. Don't let the stats fool you, this guy is a goddamned tank at our level, and will cheerfully use his Heat Ray as though it were a throwing weapon in terms of AP which means he can use it twice a turn. I enjoyed fighting these guys in previous LPs because of the challenge they presented. This isn't a challenge. This is a kick to the teeth. "SHINWELL!" "You bastard! DIE!" "Wait, we can ztll zave them!" With the power of the character editor, because I GOT LUCKY. "And we will never talk about that again." "Undead front.' "Got you!" "Let uz see thiz crypt." "Aw, not even special Bolts, and the crossbow is normal." "Back to Brown?" "Sounds like a plan." "Mayor, we've completed the task, and would like our reward." "Thanks to you, the only problem with the mines is getting the workers to come back. We will cope. Thank you again." Our reward is a Steel Broadsword. You know, in case anyone picks up skill in Bladed weapons. "Shinwell, stop staring forlornly into the water. It was never going to work out."  "YOU ALL DESERVE THIS! Except you." I head back to get my stuff ID'd. Here's the highlights.     And it all gets sold, because I have people with Priest 4, and I know where to buy those. Slow All and Curse All? Hell yeah! "Another izolated valley I see?" "After the learning."  "So... has anyone thought about where this water goes when it leaves the Vale?" "..." "The water probably falls into Exile somewhere that no one has noticed. In a hundred years, we'll have some Vahnatai screaming bloody murder about the acid seas in their front lawn." Right, I pick up Dispel Undead for Zaka and Shinwell - forgetting Shinwell doesn't have Priest 4, just 3 - and Curse All for Zaka. Now, I can start spamming both, making my melee life much easier. Once I get Bless All, and Haste All in a later scenario, I should be good to go! "ALL THE ARROWS!" "Last stop, unless you want to fight Hydras?" "No." "I'm with the lizard." "Well, at least these we knew about before now."  "Doez anyone ever feel guilty about this?" "No?" "Just checking."  "And here we are."  "Tokka. Zaka. Let them have it."  The Ogre is big, strong and has already taken some damage. And been cursed, reducing its skill. "Well, let's see what else is here." "And in the back corner..." "Thiz is an affront to the Ancestors. Destroy!" "Pillage then burn." "Of course, checking for traps is a good idea first." Yeah, with a solid way to prevent being flanked, and the spells in hand, this isn't a fight, it's a slaughter. "That's enough of that. Let's get back to the School."   "And once more, unto the breach." 
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Jul 25, 2022 04:36
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Exile had some serious pain points in general, but honestly it's charming. 
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Jul 25, 2022 09:26
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I always liked the desperate scramble to tilt the scales against early threats like the ruby skeleton for the rewards ahead of time, though this one seemed a bit lacking in payoff.
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Jul 26, 2022 07:34
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me, skimming the lets play forum: "wait back up, let's play what now?" look, buddy, you're doing tatterdemalion or i'm OUT Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 07:44
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Are the screenshots with goblin fights censoring the goblins?
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Jul 26, 2022 11:25
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I'm actually mildly surprised about you still having trouble with the Ruby Skeleton because if you were going to invent a team to handle one, I feel like "three ranged weapon specialists" sounds pretty solid. The biggest problem I always had with Ruby Skeletons was that they'd inevitably hide behind other trash undead - which both provides them with cover and also guarantees they can just go ham with their Heat Ray (rather than wasting AP on movement or physical attacks). And since they're immune to most of your common magics, it often very easily turned into a race to see whether I could break through the wall of meatshields before the Heat Rays killed someone. Having lots of throwing weapons/archery would seem pretty tailor made to focus fire them down. But idk, maybe ranged weapons are exactly as poo poo as young-me thought they were so the practical reality is that it doesn't matter.
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Jul 26, 2022 12:15
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