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Yeah, they could have gone on that by making the amulet be an Amulet of Protection Against Alignment or smth like that which obfuscates the alignment as part of the protection. I mean meeting you next to a corpse is still a red light but at least it's not the lighthouse the amulet is.
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Jul 8, 2022 18:01
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NullBlack posted:how they handled it kinda makes meta-knowledge unavoidable. They should've pretended Camellia's amulet was some non-magical keepsake (explaining why she'd refuse to take it off) or just left it unidentified (and Camellia refuses to let you identify it or tell you what it does), and shown Camellia's alignment as Neutral (because alignment detection spells only reveal if the target is or isn't Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic, not if the target's Neutral. So True Neutral is indistinguishable from undetectable alignment). That way, you might know or suspect that Camellia's hiding something, but you don't know what. Instead, Camellia might as well have introduced herself by saying "Hi, I'm definitely not evil! *wink wink*"). Iirc thats what it was originally, but a lot of beta testers were unable to notice... anything about her and there was a lot of crying about it.
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Jul 8, 2022 18:38
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Culka posted:Iirc thats what it was originally, but a lot of beta testers were unable to notice... anything about her and there was a lot of crying about it. Was there any change in voicelines/combat grunts from beta to full? Because unless they were playing with the sound off plus some spoiler territory for later, I can't imagine how you'd miss all the hints.
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Jul 8, 2022 19:01
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NullBlack posted:how they handled it kinda makes meta-knowledge unavoidable. They should've pretended Camellia's amulet was some non-magical keepsake (explaining why she'd refuse to take it off) or just left it unidentified (and Camellia refuses to let you identify it or tell you what it does), and shown Camellia's alignment as Neutral (because alignment detection spells only reveal if the target is or isn't Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic, not if the target's Neutral. So True Neutral is indistinguishable from undetectable alignment). That way, you might know or suspect that Camellia's hiding something, but you don't know what. I think that's exactly the way it was in the Beta (unremovable amulet with hidden powers, her alignment appearing as Neutral in the sheet) but people were complaining that nothing was giving up the "mystery". quote:Instead, Camellia might as well have introduced herself by saying "Hi, I'm definitely not evil! *wink wink*"
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Jul 8, 2022 20:22
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TeeQueue posted:This is correct. It's also the only one to go all the way to 20th level in the six books, as the Mythic rules let them pump a lot more EXP into the books as they went. PF1 TT is broken anyway. The group I played through Iron Gods with (Alchemist, Bloodrager, Cleric, Inquisitor) was prep-heavy and totally broken, so much that we skipped most of the 5th adventure and finished two levels below the proper progression (L15 instead of 17), and cleared most dungeons in under 10 minutes of game time because we had so many spells running. The DM put together a random encounter in a city while we were shopping and dropped my character in one round bc nobody had their preps going. And I’ll not get into how massively broken the teamwork feats are. Iron Gods has mythic foes but doesn’t allow the PCs access to mythic abilities or paths.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:32
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Culka posted:Iirc thats what it was originally, but a lot of beta testers were unable to notice... anything about her and there was a lot of crying about it. That Italian Guy posted:I think that's exactly the way it was in the Beta (unremovable amulet with hidden powers, her alignment appearing as Neutral in the sheet) but people were complaining that nothing was giving up the "mystery". I'm not sure how to feel about this knowledge. I don't know what's worse: that the beta testers have apparently never heard of a "Plot Twist", or that the developers acquiesced to the complaint.
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Jul 8, 2022 20:36
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Cammy should be given the slumber hex ASAP and that alone makes her pretty useful. Cammy also starts shrieking combat barks like "your pain...is my PLEASURE" pretty drat quickly. I still need to romance her for the sole purpose of seeing how deep the crazy train goes.
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Jul 8, 2022 21:41
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Glad to see a Wrath of the Righteous LP on the forums! Looking forward to seeing how it goes for you.NullBlack posted:I can imagine there was some balance issues, given it's the only (I think) adventure path to include Pathfinder's Mythic rules, aka "hey kid, wanna become a god?" Speaking from personal experience, Reign Of Winter includes nods to the mythic rules (Baba Yaga is Mythic 10, and the final book plots out a possible "Post-campaign" that would require mythic levels) and I think some of the other later APs might as well. But Wrath of the Righteous was the only one to really focus on them. And frankly, the book rules were *awful.* Owlcat have done much better with it. And with a lot of other stuff. I actually came really close to running the Adventure Path for my group, but changed after actually.. reading it. Owlcat made a lot of changes, and frankly pretty much all of them were for the best. The books are still pretty great though, and I found myself looking through the relevant one after each act at times just to see what they'd tweaked. I might show off a few things like the character art and some of the bigger cut encounters or characters once you've gotten further in, but I don't want to spoil anything coming up. I was originally going to post a crop of the version directly from the PDF to finish this off, but I was able to find the original artist for Anevia's Adventure Path Version online.
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Jul 8, 2022 21:56
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Does this game have any facility for making an entire party instead of recruiting NPCs? BG had a way to do that in a roundabout fashion using the multiplayer.
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Jul 8, 2022 22:06
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Yes
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Jul 8, 2022 22:11
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Trust me, romancing Camellia is a trainwreck waiting to happen. But if you're dead set, I wish you luck. Reign of Winter is probably my favorite Adventure Path, mostly for Part 5. Your party travels dimensions to World War 1, takes on Rasputin and tanks. I would love to see what Owlcat could do with that.
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Jul 8, 2022 22:19
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achtungnight posted:Trust me, romancing Camellia is a trainwreck waiting to happen. But if you're dead set, I wish you luck. if I recall correctly, it isn't dimensional travel: planet Earth canonically exists in a different galaxy but same universe as Golarion, and happens to be in the middle of World War 1 at the same time the PF1 adventure paths take place. The only reason it's such a big deal to go to Earth (as opposed to visiting it every other adventure) is that Interplanetary Teleport is a 9th level spell. Also, R'yleh is there, and Cthulhu is sleeping. Maybe don't go waking him up. NullBlack fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 23:02
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DoubleNegative posted:These are the skill prompts I mentioned in the last update. Athletics is not a tagged skill, and its bonus is running off of Lisbeth's strength bonus. If you don't remember, her "bonus" is -1. So she takes a -1 penalty to every strength check. Because of both her low strength, plus athletics not being tagged, the skill's "bonus" is a -2. Thankfully these maluses aren't cumulative. The strength penalty has already been applied, in fact. On a DC12, we'd need to roll 14 or higher to win. While it's theoretically doable, this is probably not the smart pick. not having a skill tagged doesn't apply a malus TheGreatEvilKing posted:Cammy should be given the slumber hex ASAP and that alone makes her pretty useful. yeah the way they clearly intended her to go (some weird hybrid dex2dam caster thing) is annoying to build for since it takes a while to get off the ground and isn't that amazing really, so just slapping slumber on her and replacing her as soon as i could was what i did. even then she's not even the best slumberbot, but slumber's so hosed up early that having two of them instagibbing enemies every turn is still godlike for many hours. hoohah. anyway no matter which way they hid her Insanely Obviously Evil Alignment (there are people out there i've seen unironically complain about spoilers for this somehow, despite her voice actress doing a great job of making everything she says sound either psychotic or barely repressed psychotic), she still can't take alignment locked classes like paladin. which is Fairly Suspicious
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Jul 9, 2022 00:00
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My "hide alignment" amulet has people asking a lot of questions already answered by amulet
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Jul 9, 2022 02:20
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DoubleNegative posted:Good to know, thanks! I'll edit this into the update. No problem. Just with getting back into Exile, I've found my skills at RPG math haven't degraded at all, so I figured you just made a typo there.
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Jul 9, 2022 02:23
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I always felt that Cam was one of the better default NPC setups. She's one of the two easiest NPCs to AC stack for tanking purposes. A player based tank will still outdo it, but a player build will basically outdo all but one of the NPC setups so whatever.
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Jul 10, 2022 11:15
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Owlcat did a really good job with a lot of the background details that might get overlooked. That feather fall is well placed, and makes you go "ooooooh" when it's source comes up.
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Jul 10, 2022 11:33
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 Hello everyone and welcome back. I was originally gonna post this update tomorrow, but here it is a day early! This little shot of the map shows just how far we've come. We haven't really covered very much ground at all. Oh well, this is not gonna be a short LP.  We take a step closer to the ruins and a cutscene takes over.   The man notices you and freezes. The curling horn protruding from his head casts a malevolent shadow on the cave wall. "Wenduag!"  "Lann? Did you find it?" The woman looks just as strange as her companion — like a cross between a cat and a spider. When she catches sight of you, she immediately drops into a fighting stance. Her movements reveal the lethal grace of a wild predator. "Who is that?" "The do-gooders here to save our mongrel souls, no doubt." Lann stops her with a gesture. "Wait, they might know what's going on up there." "Demons are laying waste to Kenabres!" Lann's expression hardens. "If things are as bad as you say, then we all have to hurry." Wenduag looks you over, considering something. "You didn't come from the direction of the Shield Maze... drat it! I couldn't care less about what's happening on the surface, but the Maze..." Evil points are really easy to get, but they paint your character as a complete moron. "Who are you? Tieflings?" Wenduag's face twists scornfully. "Tieflings are the descendants of people who sullied themselves by mating with demons. Our ancestors would never sink that low. We are the underground crusaders, the children of the crusade's finest." "Sadly, 'underground crusaders' is a bit of a mouthful, so people usually just call us 'mongrels'." Wenduag lets out a disdainful huff. "You just love repeating that, don't you, Lann? 'Mongrels' — that's what the uplanders call us. But we call ourselves 'neathers'." "I've never heard of underground crusaders before." "In Kenabres they're called the mongrels. People say that they come up to the surface at night and eat anyone foolish enough to wander alone after midnight." Seelah turns to Lann and Wenduag. "To tell you the truth, I thought you guys were just a tale to tell kids at night." Wenduag gives a contemptuous snort. "That's human gratitude for you. Our forefathers suffered the consequences of demonic corruption, all to protect Mendev and Golarion, and for what? So we could become monsters used to frighten children." Lann sighs. "Every mongrel has their own take on it. Our chief, for example, thinks of us as something like a reserve military force. He thinks we're standing by until the moment we're needed. And when we emerge on the surface and save the day, all the people will see how good we are, and they'll love us for it. He leaves that last part out when he talks about it, of course, but it's easy enough to read between the lines."Mendev is the nation this takes place in, while Golarion is the planet. "What is this place?" "This is the hall where we remember the glory of our forebears. Sorry about the mess — it doesn't usually look like this, trust me. Sometimes we even wipe the dust off the exhibits." "This is where the relics of the first crusaders are displayed. Our lives are short, our glories are quickly forgotten... but this place helps us to remember that we are just as worthy as anyone else, and that our lives are not lived in vain." Anevia lets out a low whistle. "The first crusaders? You've been down here that long? That's crazy!" "What are you doing here?" "That's none of your..." "We're looking for a holy sword. It was here, in the center, sticking out of a rock." Lann frowns. "The sooner we find it, the better. Some kids from our tribe took off for the Shield Maze. They figured it had collapsed and now it's their time to go up to the surface like all the legends foretold... Except they don't have a clue what's waiting for them up there. They're not fighters. And Sull, the chief of our tribe, is dead set against it — he says that now isn't the time for the underground crusaders to take up arms. If we get the holy sword, we might be able to change the Chief's mind." Wenduag huffs a breath. "It's a fool's errand. None of us will be able to hold the sword, let alone use it to save anyone. It's not an ordinary weapon — it's made from righteous heavenly flame and will burn anyone who touches it. Do you think you're special, Lann?" "I'll pick it up with my teeth and tie it to my hand if I have to... it doesn't matter. An angel's sword and a troop of stalwart mongrels will be able to work a minor miracle." He chuckles. "Speaking of which — you're still here, Wendu, which means that deep down you know it's possible." This is a very in-depth conversation! It keeps going. So let's keep the question train rolling as well~ "Maze? Does it really lead to the surface?" "Yes. There are other ways up, but they are far from here, and after the earthquakes, there's a good chance they've collapsed. But the Maze — there's a legend among our people that when the walls of the Maze fall, that will be the signal for us, the underground crusaders, that the time has come to go up to the surface and fight the demons in the final confrontation." Wenduag snorts. "Until then, people say the Maze is 'shielding' us from taking rash actions. I'm the only one in our whole tribe to have been in the Maze and even I don't know if it's true. But the further I went in the Maze, the fresher the air became. That means that it really must lead to the surface." "When the ceiling and walls started shaking, the young ones in our tribe lost their heads — they figured the Maze was going to collapse, so it was time to go up to the surface. They grabbed whatever weapons were on hand and ran off toward the Maze." His eyes are filled with genuine concern. "They think the Maze is no longer a danger to them. They've been listening to Wenduag too much..." "Don't try to blame this on me. Yes, I told them that our people are capable of making our way through the Maze. In the future. But I always told them to wait until I had made a map of all the Maze's dangers. I warned them a hundred times!" You hear a hint of emotion in Wenduag's voice for the first time. "But it was no use! My words just went in one ear and out the other!"It's not a maze. It's a temple and it's really straightforward. "A sword of holy flame? How did it wind up down here?" "It came here with its owner. A long time ago, fifty thousand gongs to be precise..." "Seventy years ago, in uplander time." Wenduag rewards Lann with an irritated glare. "Fifty thousand gongs ago, our forebears found a dead angel here along with the bodies of his comrades. The tribe gave them a dignified burial, and they were laid to rest with their weapons — but the flaming angelic sword was stuck in a rock and no one was able to pull it out. It burned to the touch, like real fire. So the rock was placed over the angel's grave. It should be here somewhere..." "Maybe the angel will dig himself out and find the sword for us? That might be our best shot in this chaos." "Lann! Watch your tongue." "We'll find the sword faster if we work together. I'll help you." Lann's expression brightens. "Thanks! An extra pair of eyes can only help. The sword will be easy enough to spot. It looks... swordy. Help us and in return we'll get you out of here." "Now we're talking! Let's get to work. It's a good thing we all bumped into each other, isn't it?" "What, you want to find the sword quickly so the underground monsters bring you back to the surface? So be it."If we'd asked for payment, Wendy and Lann both would point out that they have no money and know the only way to the surface. We're asking them for a favor, not the other way around.  A mutually beneficial partnership, however? That works out nicely!  Holding tab shows all objects we can interact with. There's a few objects in the world we can interact with to get bonus XP and a little world building. They are always labeled with a skill and a DC. Also the purple outline is a hidden object that can be revealed with perception.  These checks never make or break anything, they just offer additional insights into stuff. Here we can see that the neathers are actually right about their Crusader ties.   Eventually we find a pile of rubble that has a gear icon instead of a loot icon. Also none of the hidden loot in here is worth anything. It's all just low level vendor trash.  Well that's definitely a glowing sword. And it looks pretty holy.     Dmitry V. Silantyev - Light of HeavenA strange flash pierces the gloom, and Lisbeth feels drops of searing blood run down her chest. The wound healed by Terendelev reopens and weeps scarlet, but there is no pain or weakness. A hazy scene appears, a cave chamber — this one or another one entirely? Lisbeth's heartbeat quickens, and a stream of thoughts suddenly bursts into her mind — thoughts that clearly belong to another... "Treachery! They betrayed me, trapped me, and stabbed me in the back! My trusted allies, my treasured friends, the people I swore to protect... The people for whom I descended from Heaven and came to this turbulent mortal world. There they are, up ahead, in the gloom of the cave. What are they waiting for? Are they afraid to draw any closer? Do they believe I am about to die from their traitorous blows? Next to me — a quiet moan. A girl with a golden braid lies on the rocks, clutching her slashed side. She refused to join with the traitors and paid dearly for it. I could have tried to run, but I will not! Whilst I still have strength, I must..." While recognizing the foreign origin of these thoughts, Lisbeth intuits that she can control them somehow. Let's try to...  These are "choose your own adventure" sections. You remember that cutscene from the start where Deskari attacked Kenabres? Yeah, that's never happening again. These CYOA sections instead take the place of proper cutscenes. Lisbeth isn't a dick, but she's also not exactly a good person. Not yet at least. So she would be less worried about an injured woman than the damage done to herself. So... ...furiously call out to the traitors.The voice, trembling with pain and rage, carries to the farthest reaches of the cave ceiling in this strange vision. "Why? Why did you betray me and your comrades? What did the servants of the Abyss tempt you with?" Blurred shapes — the faces of several mortals — bleed into existence. One of them, a young half-elf with his hair twisted into a knot, responds to the accusations: "You and your goddess have given us nothing, Lariel! Nothing! But Lord Deskari will give us everything! And there is no power in the world that will stop his advance!" The frenzy of foreign thoughts comes faster and faster, like a rushing river, and images flash by one after another. A priestess in colorful robes observing the stars. A young female paladin praying, clutching her glowing sword. A majestic golden-winged angel gazing into the distance, his face covered by a helmet but his voice ringing clear: "Only if you're willing, and only if you're ready. There is no going back." There, in the vision, the darkness in the cave stirs into motion. Something massive appears from within its depths — a vague shadow, an outline — a nightmare come to life. A wave of odious chirruping and rustling emanates from the shadow, the sound piercing like hot irons lancing through flesh and bone. The traitors fall to their knees before the shadow in reverent ecstasy, and the wounded girl thrashes in her death throes. The yawning chest wound burns white-hot, Lisbeth's head pounds with pain, and it is no longer clear whose pain it is — the person called Lariel who sent this vision, or the one unlucky enough to receive it. [Will 10] But Lisbeth is determined to fight off the illusion.Lisbeth gets a +4 to will, versus a +1 to Knowledge (Arcana) [Failed a Will check] The force of this terrifying attack, though originating in a vision, is much greater than anything Lisbeth can withstand. Crippling fatigue drags her to the ground, hands trembling, cold piercing her skull and slowly creeping along her spine. The one who sent the vision is experiencing something similar: he is broken and exhausted. A monstrous shadow emerges from the murk of the cave. It is not real, it exists only in this strange vision or memory. But the thrill of fear it provokes is more than real — the shadow's features starkly resemble those of Deskari, the terrifying demon lord. In a movement as swift as thought itself, the monster's hand is wrapped around the throat of the one they called Lariel. "The foolish angel struggling on the rocks, like a fly with its wings torn off," intones the shadow. Its voice changes as it moves, shifting from a quiet whispering to a sonorous shout, becoming young, then old and quavering. "Where is your goddess, angel? Where is her self-assured herald? How is it that you are dying here alone, so far from the light of your Heaven?" A strange calm envelops the thoughts of the one called Lariel. He recognizes who stands before him and he knows he will never bow down before this enemy. The flaming sword flares to life in his hand — bright, pure, flickering with multi-colored sparks like a sun beam through stained glass. Slash! The blade slices through the demonic creature's flesh and the monster recoils with a howl, releasing his grip on Lariel's throat. The angel falls back heavily on the rocks. His vitality is ebbing, but his pride remains undiminished. He grips the sword, and with his last burst of strength — plunges it into the rock. Lisbeth senses that the vision is fading, the rush of thoughts diminishing, like a river running dry. The last thing she hears is this: You will kill me, monster. This I know. But one day, someone will come here and raise up my sword. They will raise it up and..." "...punish evildoers and traitors."The vision disappears, vanishing in a burst of colors. Lisbeth does not hear the final words, but she seems to complete the thought, taking it to heart. The words fly from her lips, and with them... something else. The heat blazing in Lisbeth's chest fades away. The edges of the scarlet wound close, leaving not even a scar behind. Looking down, Lisbeth sees the flaming sword in her hand — or, rather, its outline, the memory of what the sword looked like. With a final surge of warm and soothing light, the sword vanishes, and the light is drawn into her hand. Lisbeth senses that it will return — all she need do is call it.  So what the gently caress was all that? Well that was the introduction to the game's mythic paths system. Specifically the first of nine. This is the angel path, and it has two distinct flavors - protecting the innocent and punishing those that deserve it. Angels have to be one step away from lawful good. So Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good, and Neutral Good all apply. Lisbeth is a very long way away from Neutral Good, let alone any of the others. Her destiny is not to become an angel. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we'll be following Lisbeth for the rest of the LP. I'll explain at the end of the update.  There's no mistaking the flash, so Lann and Wendy both rush over. "Hey, Lisbeth! Are you all right? You were kinda... glowing just now!" Seelah kneels before the light, offering up a prayer to Iomedae. Lann looks at you, dumbfounded. "That... that was it! The Light of Heaven! But how..." Wenduag frowns. "What did you do with it? Where did it go?" "You saw it too? The traitors, the dying girl..." Lann looks around. "It's only us here. Your group, you, me, Wendu, and... the Light of Heaven, that sort of got... uh... sucked into you. Any chance you can whip it out again? We do kind of need it. Lann rubs his chin anxiously. "Sorry, I crack jokes when I get nervous. And when I'm upset. And when I'm happy. Anyway, what I said, it came out wrong. We need to bring you to Chief Sull! You can show everyone the Light of Heaven, we'll rally the tribe and go into the Maze, and we'll get back our kin!" "And what if she can't make it happen a second time? What then? The tribe will just say we're crazy and turn its back on us." "I think... I saw the memories of Lariel, the angel who died here." "Lariel? That really was Lariel? The angel from the legends? The ancestors even got his name right on the gravestone — the Chief will be thrilled." Wenduag watches you with suspicion. "You? Thousands of gongs and no one's been able to touch it, and now you, an ordinary creature of flesh and blood no different to us, get the sword and start talking about visions?" "Now, now, Wenduag, don't be a sore loser." Lann nods toward you. "She is clearly different from us — the sword appeared before her, along with the angel's name, and all that other stuff. Because she doesn't carry our mongrel taint. Heaven doesn't give a drat how special we are. We're born with evil inside us, Heaven doesn't need to know any more than that. I know you're willing to tear anyone apart to uphold our people's honor, but... you and Sull, you just refuse to face the truth: we are the way we are because our ancestors' bodies were corrupted by the Abyss. It does the same thing to plants and animals, there's nothing heroic or special about it. It doesn't make us better and it doesn't make us worthier." [Requires Angel Mythic Path] [Reveal the Light of Heaven] "It seems I can control it."Taking the mythic path options doesn't lock us in, so if the option is available to take, then feel free to do so. We'll be asked to commit at the end of act 2, and our options will be limited to the ones we've 1) found and 2) expressed an interest in (via these conversational options). There's more we can uncover later, but six of the nine are available to find before we are told to commit. The last three are... special cases and only become available at the 90% mark of the game. We can swap to them later, but we have to pick one of the original six first. For the sake of not hiding anything, the first six paths are listed below. (Be sure to click on the name for the associated theme song.) Angel - Saving the innocent, punishing the wicked. Become a powerful supporting force on the battlefield Demon - Kick untold amounts of rear end as the embodiment of rage Azata - A fae spirit. Good-natured, but very "LOL PENGUINS SPOOOOORK xD". You get actual superpowers. I'm serious. Aeon - Guards the fabric of reality, "Get in loser, we're gonna kill Chaos." You can fix and undo stuff that would be impossible for any other Mythic path. Lich - Immortal master of the undead legions. Death is your domain, and all will enter it given enough time. Trickster - Playing a prank upon reality itself. You become the ultimate troll, the best shitposter. Aeons guard reality, but you rewrite it according to your whims!  "That is just... wow... I mean, that's amazing! Heaven has truly blessed you, Lisbeth." Wenduag stares at the divine light as if transfixed. "This power... is the most majestic thing I've ever seen in all my life... Is this what the sun is like, Lann?" "Yes, it's similar... but this light is more... golden." Lann drags his gaze away from it. "Chief Sull needs to see this. Now that we have the power of angels on our side, he can't say no. He'll have to assemble a troop to storm the Maze." Lann looks at you pleadingly. "You uplanders care about your kids, right? Help us save ours. Without them, we won't survive. And then... the perils of the Maze won't be so bad if we go together, we'll make our way through it and find the way to Kenabres." "Lead us to your chief and I'll decide if I'm going to help you or not." "Let's go, we'll take the short route. Well, the only route, really." Everyone runs over here. We now have Lann and Wenduag as party members. Once we leave this zone, we'll be asked to pick from between them. So don't get used to seeing them both in the party at the same time. Lann is a Zen Archer, which is an archer who has monk skills. Wenduag is a straight fighter. Both wield bows, but Wendy can be easily changed to something else and will be if she's picked. If you have the whole party selected and click on a skill challenge, the game automatically uses the most appropriate person for the job. In this case, it's Lisbeth because she has a +8 to mobility. So we only need to roll a 6 to beat this DC14!  With three archers in the back, the rest of the caves are just a formality.  And just past the spiders is another mobility check. These checks tend to get a lot easier once you have more than 4 people in your party, because like a good Pokemon team, diversity of skills is the key.  These earth elementals are an optional challenge. Though challenge might be too strong a word here.  The more people there are in your party, the more quickly hits add up, so the faster combat goes. And outside of being in town with everyone else, we won't be alone again unless we specifically go out of our way to do it. But Owlcat are also aware of the force multiplier that additional bodies in the party means, so they ensure that encounters are balanced around having six bodies at minimum in the party. (Six is the maximum party size, for what it's worth, not counting pets.)  More combat shots. This spider didn't know what hit it!  After the spider, I found a kama on a body. This might be a more appropriate weapon for Lisbeth, because she has ninja proficiencies that specifically include kama. The damage range is wider, too. So no reason not to use it!  As we near the zone border, Wenduag catches up to us to have a little heart to heart. Wenduag glances at Lann, who is fixing his slipped bowstring, and quickly walks over to you. Her cat-like eyes glow from beneath her hood. "Listen here... you. I don't know who you are or where you come from, but you and I are the only two people here who see things clearly. That's why I'm asking you: don't show the Light of Heaven to Sull." Lann is sure that the Light should be shown to the mongrels." "I thought you considered the mongrels to be great warriors." "The descendants of great warriors. I believe that my people are worthy of greatness, that we are strong and can do many things — that's why we were chased down here, we scared people. But it's one thing to go hunting in the caves, and another to fight in the Shield Maze." Wenduag leans closer, her pupils dilating. "I've been there. I've spent my whole life training so I can make it through all the way to the end. There were more of us trackers at the start. We were young and stupid. What's a couple of monsters when there's a whole world out there waiting for us? That's what we thought. But we weren't prepared. The Maze isn't just a physical challenge — it's cunning and full of traps. It's dark as the primordial night. And if you close your eyes and listen, you hear whispers right behind you, and soft singing in the distance that seems to rise and fall with the beating of your heart." "Don't you want to save the kids lost in the maze?" "I do want to. But I'm not going to risk the future of the tribe for the sake of a few stupid kids. Chief Sull is hesitant, and for good reason. He also understands how dangerous this is for the tribe. Lann's the only one who benefits from these childish games of heroism. I'll go alone if I have to and find them, or whatever's left of them. Without any heroics, relying only on myself. Risking only my own life." Wenduag slows. "You and your friends... you can come with me. Perhaps we can make it to the end of the Maze together and find the way out to the surface." "I'll think about it. Let's go." Wenduag nods. "Don't show the Chief the Light, and I'll lead you through the Maze to the surface. I swear it." We'll explore Neatholm next time. But until then, I have a little job for you guys. A vote! Multiple votes, actually. First... What character are we gonna go through this game with? I have some ready-made characters if you want. You can also suggest something else and I'll use that if it's popular enough. As for my choices?  Kiyomi, the Neutral Good kitsune cleric. She's a good-natured, good-hearted fox woman who wants to help the world for no other reason than it's the right thing to do. As a cleric, Kiyomi gets access to a lot of divine magic, which has some of the strongest buffing spells in the game. And because she's such a sweetheart, she will go on to earn her wings and halo and ascend to the heavens as an angel - specifically the "protect the innocent" type rather than the "full of wrath and fury" kind. Pressli, the Lawful Neutral halfling sorcerer. I'm not sold on the name, so feel free to suggest a different one if we go this route. Pressli worships the god of magic, Nethys, and at some point in history, her ancestors bred with an air elemental. This heritage has manifested in the tiny halfling, who can turn every type of spell damage into electric damage. As a sorcerer, she gets very few spells, but the ones she gets she will be an undisputed master of. She is a hardline stickler for rules, and believes in the triumph of law above all else. Because of this, she is a perfect choice to ascend and become an Aeon. Lisbeth, the Chaotic Neutral half-elf ninja. This is our current character, naturally. Ninjas are a specialized hybrid of rogue and monk. In just a couple levels, she will be able to pull off some insane bullshit like a free haste spell for herself alone. Lisbeth is not necessarily a good person, she's just not a dick either. She's here to be entertained and to make a little money along the way. And disparage the gods at every step of the way as an atheist. She has already started walking the path of the Trickster, she just doesn't know it yet. Zenic, the Lawful Evil half-orc fighter. Zenic is not a good person, to put it bluntly. You know the old quote from Dr. Horrible? "The world is a mess and I just need to rule it." That's her. She specializes in wielding a scythe, the favored weapon of her dread god, Urgathoa. She also has enough feats at level 1 propping up the scythe that she will be a blender with it. She has an interest in learning to cast spells, and will eventually learn to do so. If it weren't obvious from her weapon of choice and her chosen Goddess, Zenic is a prime candidate to become a Lich.For what it's worth, if the choice is close, I will create two of the runner ups as mercenaries so we can bring them along with us on the journey. Also, choice of Mythic Path will dictate how the game goes. The overall story is the same, naturally, but the world will adapt to our choices. An angel that protects the weak and believes in redemption will leave the world better for her having been there. On the other hand, the story of a lich that raises all problems from the dead as her eternal servants will probably chronicle the rise of a new evil overlord. There's no wrong answers here, just different flavors of play style. If you don't want to use any of those four options, then I need to know some important things: Name, Race, Class, Favored Weapon, What God they worship, Alignment, Personality type, and Which of the six Mythics they will favor. Now for the second decision. Do we trust Lann or Wenduag? To reiterate some points... Lann is a Zen Archer. That means he's pretty much locked to using a bow, and on top of that, he also gets crossover with monk. He's also Lawful Neutral, and is sadly the Funnyman Jokester, subtype 2-C ("Overexplains the joke into the ground because it's supposed to be funny.") He wants us to show the Light of Heaven to his chief, so we can rally the tribes and lead them into the maze to save the kids. Wenduag is a straight fighter with the stats to make pretty much any martial build work. If we side with her, I'm going to be turning her into a strength-based throwing weapons user. So she would be able to put those shurikens we found to devastating use. She's also neutral evil and makes no effort to hide that she follows the strongest side. Luckily for us, we're able to kick apocalyptic amounts of rear end, so she'll be relatively loyal. She wants us to hide the Light of Heaven from Chief Sull, so she can sneak us off alone into the maze. This is an either/or choice! Either Lann or Wenduag. Both have their pros and cons. Wenduag is one of the better-written romances in the game if we want to pursue that angle. Lann is extremely powerful as a Zen Archer, but we'll be getting multiple archers counting him. Including, possibly, Kiyomi as a main character. Ki skills affect only the user, so having Lann and Lisbeth in the same party won't be retreading the same ground. Post your votes, answers bolded please! Votes will remain open until sometime Tuesday evening. Encyclopedia Golarionnica Mendev Golarion Heaven Angels Abyss
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Jul 10, 2022 18:31
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Kiyomi Lann
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Jul 10, 2022 18:41
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Zenic Wenduag
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Jul 10, 2022 18:51
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Lisbeth; and Wenduag Shitposting so hard you single-handedly defeat an entire army of demons is basically Dominions in a nutshell, and therefore Lisbeth is a Goon. 
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Jul 10, 2022 18:54
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Lisbeth Wendy as if there's any chance that a thread full of goons won't vote trickster
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Jul 10, 2022 19:06
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Lisbeth, trust Wenduag
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Jul 10, 2022 19:07
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quote:Azata - A fae spirit. Good-natured, but very "LOL PENGUINS SPOOOOORK xD". You get actual superpowers. I'm serious. It's also leading slave revolts and uniting the outcast and those rejected by society. The fishmalk poo poo is Trickster.
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Jul 10, 2022 19:29
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I appreciate a good kitsune, and a capital-g Good protagonist, but in this case I do think Lisbeth and Wendaug is the way to go. I like Trickster's vibes and I'm a lot more interested in Wendaug.
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Jul 10, 2022 19:54
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I found it interesting that Kiyomi, while a cleric, has higher Dex than Wis. Is there an optimisation reason for this that I cannot see?
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Jul 10, 2022 21:08
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Lisbeth and Wenduag.
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Jul 10, 2022 21:19
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I’m guessing Kiyomi is a cleric of Erastil (god of hunting) and related to someone we’ll meet later. [reads character sheet] Wrong on the first but maybe not on the second. I’m glad to go with the current majority on this one, mostly because I’m already used to the character and interested in the path. Trickster Lisbeth. Also Wendaug seems more cautious and trustworthy. We don’t really have reason to see her as Evil yet. Deception might piss off Lann, but, hey we’re a ninja. It’s what we do. achtungnight fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 10, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 21:21
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JustJeff88 posted:I found it interesting that Kiyomi, while a cleric, has higher Dex than Wis. Is there an optimisation reason for this that I cannot see? Two primary reasons! One: She’s a bow user, so dex is important to them. Two: You don’t need that much Wis to get access to level 10 spells, and at 16 she can reach that with a Wisdom crown.
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Jul 10, 2022 21:24
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If there was a choice separate from protagonist, I would have leaned slightly Aeon instead of automatic Trickster because of fishmalk poo poo. Given the packages here Lisbeth and sir, this is a Wendy's.
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Jul 10, 2022 21:33
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Zenic Wenduag
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Jul 10, 2022 21:36
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Well, since there's probably no way we're getting a Demon character (best music theme in the game, FIGHT ME), I'll say Zenic and Wenduag for purely selfish reasons - I beat the game as Azata, want to see something as different as possible.
anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 10, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 21:46
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If I could vote for a Chaotic Good Trickster, I would. But I can't, so I guess I'll go with Chaotic Not-A-Dick Trickster Lisbeth. Lann. I don't trust Neutral Evil
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Jul 10, 2022 21:53
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FrenchBen posted:Lisbeth and Wenduag. This!
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Jul 10, 2022 21:53
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Kiyomi Wenduag
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Jul 10, 2022 22:11
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Kiyomi, Wenduag I like foxes.
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Jul 10, 2022 22:12
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Kiyomi, Wenduag
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Jul 10, 2022 22:16
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I don't have a strong opinion on the main PC, but I have plenty on the choice of companions! So I'm going to vote Wenduag. Also Azata is far better than it sounds. But it is very, very light-hearted and a touch silly.
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Jul 10, 2022 22:33
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Zenic and Wenduag
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Jul 10, 2022 23:05
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Lisbeth please! And Wenduag.
Quackles fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 23:28
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