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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Just found this, and I'm somewhat surprised by the Ninja choice rather than Rogue. Blah, blah, optimization, sure, but in this case it's an entire core class feature that's entirely useless for most of the campaign. That'd be Poison Use, because Demons are entirely immune to it.

The Horgus and Anevia conversation is nice because it reframes him as still a jerk, but one who is at least trying to do the right thing - he just tries to disguise his good deeds as either a pragmatic business interest (in the case of the festival) or else entirely hide it because he thinks doing otherwise would make him look weak to his rivals.


NullBlack posted:

that's how Owlcat decided to handle alignment shifts? I'm guessing it's intended to be so, if someone stops acting Chaotic etc, they eventually slide into Neutral without requiring Lawful etc choices; but that still turns alignment into a chore.

Different choices are weighted differently, so how many it takes to slide out of an alignment entirely depends on what you were actually agreeing to. And only choices that actually have an alignment tag shift it in the first place - plenty of choices don't. So if you're taking a bunch of evil tagged choices of making mean comments to people it's going to be very minor shifts, but if you burn down an orphanage it's going to be a much larger one. As long as you're vaguely sticking to the core concepts of your alignment, you generally won't have an issue.

Like, plenty of people have played through as a Paladin with absolutely zero issue, even if you're occasionally taking Neutral or Chaotic choices because you don't like the Lawful one.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 13, 2022

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

I'll admit, it's a bit strange that the mod which allows you to swap what kind of weapon Radiance is defaults to a scythe. No real insightful comment here, it's just odd. Also regarding Radiance, this is actually a point where your class choice matters - if you're playing a Paladin, it immediately becomes a +1 weapon rather than being stuck at masterwork for a while.


DoubleNegative posted:




This encounter drops a magical ring. I think it's a +1 AC ring. But because the party is collectively not very good at arcane lore, nobody can identify it. We'll have to wait until we enter act 1 and get the next companion in a couple updates.

Note that for magical items with permanent effects (so rings of protection, cloaks of resistance, +1 weapons, etc.) they will absolutely still work even if you haven't identified them yet. And the developers aren't cruel enough to mix in cursed items into normal loot so there's no real downside to trying them on even if you don't already recognize them on sight. There's a small handful of items in the game you want to be cautious about, but they're generally signposted at least a bit.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Rythian posted:

The way that mod works, you specifically download an individual file that sets the weapon type. There's basically every weapon type available, to change from the longsword default. OP must have downloaded the Scythe version for their game, and is intending on changing it for the future.

EDIT: Super beaten to this explanation, but there you go.

Yeah, saw it the first time. I'd just initially made the assumption that the mod had made Radiance work somewhat similarly to a certain something else in the game, rather than requiring out-of-game file insertion.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

JustJeff88 posted:

Super tiny image, my man. I would like to see this but it doesn't expand when I click on it; can you repost?

I don't know enough about this game to say. My P&P gaming dies died with 2e D&D

Edit: Why is the last name on the list so, um, funny?

They're basically a secret/bonus character that is only available very late and has an absolutely godawful mix of classes. And because when you respec companions you can only swap around choices going back to their join point (i.e. if a character joins your party as a 5th level wizard, you can't change that), you can't actually fix the issue - specifically they join at 14th level so you've only got 6 more levels to play with. I'm fairly sure Owlcat knows very well it's a terrible mix and didn't actually expect anyone to use the character unless they felt like challenging themselves.



NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Are alchemists any good? They seem like a unique class and not something that could be included as an archetype under an existing one.


Alchemists are absolutely a rather good class for quite a few reasons. The only real issue is that Mythic paths don't necessarily cater to quite them as much as more standard classes, but there's still a fair number of abilities sprinkled around them that directly benefit Alchemists.




edit: As for party composition, I will point out that "Sir not appearing in this game" has some very fun interactions with a Chaotic and/or Trickster playthrough. Because as much as it might drive them insane, they will absolutely still admit it works.

For a fluffy Trickster playthrough though, I'd say use the next 4 companions you acquire - all of them fit the theme fairly well. Which, if you're dedicated to using a merc, takes the party to 6. I suppose you could swap out the likely final of those 4 Daeran for Wendu, but that leaves you with a somewhat important coverage gap. Wendu also just doesn't fit a Trickster playthrough the best - storywise she's generally better if you're either leaning into her "Survival of the Fittest" mentality, or else trying to disprove it - and Trickster's story really doesn't lean either of those ways.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jul 21, 2022

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

DoubleNegative posted:

The short explanation is that certain companions will leave after you ascend to a specific mythic path. Camellia will leave basically instantly after you become an Aeon, Seelah will leave eventually after you become a Lich, and the one you're asking about (as much as I like them) can't abide serving under a Trickster.

I'm not sure who leaves for Demon. I'm pretty sure nobody will leave over Angel and Azata, though. And technically everyone leaves if you follow one of the hidden paths.

It's definitely possible to keep them on Trickster, it's just difficult. People remain incredibly amused at the ending slide they get on that route too.

And yeah, Angel and Azata lose no one. Demon possibly loses one depending on the choices you've been making regarding someone. Aeon loses one. Lich is very, very likely to lose 3... or even more.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

ChaosStar0 posted:

It's actually slightly low. Base 10, apply racials, 25 points to distribute. 28 is standard with 32 being high power. Personally, I prefer rolling.

No, 25 is Epic Fantasy point buy for Pathfinder. This is because PF somewhat changed the the point buy system from 3rd edition (a big one is scores now start at 10 rather than 8), with the ultimate result being that a 25 pt buy is roughly equivalent to 3rd edition 32 pt buy. If you've been playing at a PF table and your DM has been giving you 28 or 32 points to buy stats, you are significantly outside the averages PF was designed for.

A caveat here, in that the official companions in Wrath do generally notably exceed 25 - in fact there's only one companion who's got less than that - with the average around 30 (if you take one specific companion out of the average). This is mostly because they mostly don't have super optimized stat arrays the way a player-built character could do, but instead relatively balanced or flavorful ones.

And on that note, unlike the player character any mercenaries you build only get 20 pt buys.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 24, 2022

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

...When exactly was Wenduag deliberately and directly sacrificing people here? She was luring young Mongrels in yes, but as far as she was concerned the whole thing wasn't designed to kill them - it was designed to make them strong (...if with a horrifying low survival rate, and said strength involved being corrupted). Because in her twisted mind, those who survived the ritual were indeed "strong" and those who didn't were completely irrelevant. And when the Commander showed up, they displayed an even stronger form of strength that didn't involve the previous method, so she moved on. It's fairly clear logic.

As for later in the story line... uh, I feel like people are selectively editing out a fair few incidents involving her in the future, because she absolutely lives up to that Chaotic Evil descriptor in her alignment - just in the form of her dedication to her "Survival of the Fittest" mindset rather than randomly puppy kicking for no reason. Her actions follow a fairly consistent internal logic, but that's about all there is to say about the matter for the moment for obvious reasons.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Keldulas posted:


So a loving wizard would need to roll 15 to identify that Forn's talking about a drow? gently caress off, that's not nearly that esoteric.


Ehhh, if Second Darkness hasn't happened then they really are esoteric knowledge. Drow are much more secretive in general on Golarion than in most typical D&D worlds, plus there's an extremist elven secret society that goes around actively suppressing knowledge of them by any means necessary. I mean, it doesn't really matter one way or another (because meta-wise, practically anyone playing this recognizes a drow), and the check might be a bit too high even given that, but DC20-25 is likely about right.



DoubleNegative posted:



Irabeth is manning the table near Hilor and Seelah. We haven't heard enough tragic backstories yet this update, so let's go for another.

Anywho, up here in the fireplace room we find Woljif hanging out. Let's bug him because we can't go five minutes without hearing about some tragic backstory, and now it's his turn. Mercifully, he's the last guy we have to talk to in the update.

Honestly, Wrath is one of those campaigns that leans towards more exceptional backstories than usual for adventuring, of which tragedy is a fairly easy one. Because happy, well-adjusted people generally don't sign up to join a battle for mortals against extradimensional invaders that said side has been losing for 100+ years. Like, your character either grew up in the pseudo-siege atmosphere that would exist in a frontline city like Kenabres, or else you actively decided to travel to said city. It doesn't require tragic backstories, but it sure requires something.

Besides, while they're exceptional I wouldn't really call Woljif or Seelah's backstories truly tragic. Woljif at this point is mostly a fairly standard "grew up on the streets as a thief" style of backstory with some flourishes, and Seelah's had tragedy in it but is more about her dealing with the consequences of her own actions and living up to her pictured ideal. And Camellia's a big fat question mark at this point. Lann/Wenduag have more tragic ones, but the life of basically any mongrelman sucks - it just varies by degree.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

LukasR23 posted:

From what I recall, the player's guide in the AP literally mandates some sort of tragedy. There's six you get to pick from, each of which have some dramatic event that will come back later in the campaign.

And yes, this game does not consider Second Darkness as having "Happened" yet. I don't entirely know when that happens, but I think by Second Edition every single Adventure Path has canonically been resolved in some way while in 1E-canon they're in a sort of limbo.

Nah, what the original AP campaign traits tended to lean into was either "there's something cool about you" or "something happened to you, personally, as a child". You can certainly inject tragedy into any of them - and some lend themselves more to it than others - but by default it's very much more "write a cool backstory about this." It's concepts like "you managed to wander behind enemy lines as a child, and a mysterious stranger rescued you," or "your entire family has been crusaders since its inception." You could certain make them tragic - like "you're the last of your line, as your entire family line has died fighting in the crusade" for that latter option - but you could also just go with something like "parents are currently serving in the Nerosyan royal guard, so your retired grandpa raised you and taught you his old skills."

Second Darkness was one of the immediately post-3.5 APs that used OGL instead of their own ruleset, so very early (it's #3, after Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne). Unlike those, it also didn't get a reprinted book updating it to Pathfinder - likely because it wasn't anywhere near as well liked. For comparison, Wrath is #13. In terms of timeline the publication order is also the rough chronological order, so in theory it already happened years several prior to this one beginning.

In general a group is entirely fine completely ignoring ones they haven't played though - some have effects on the world if you're reading into the lore (because it applies to this one specifically, an example would be the successful end of this one resulting in large numbers of now restless ex-crusaders being a driving force behind the Glorious Reclamation happening during Hell's Vengeance), but none are required knowledge. And for Second Darkness specifically, the effects are mostly just to draw back the curtain of the shadow war going on a little bit, with most people not even noticing. So if it wasn't for this backer quest, Second Darkness happening or not would be completely irrelevant. And particularly for those that don't visibly affect much globally, there's basically zero issue with your own group just fitting them in to the timeline wherever.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

JustJeff88 posted:

Not Svirneblin, at least not back in 2e days. They are a very grim people due to being surrounded by enemies in a hostile environment. Not evil like the Duergar and Drow, just cynical and put-upon in a huge way.

My character's boo was a lady Duergar sun cleric. SImilar back story, except the Duergar are proper bastards 99.9% of the time.

Yeah, the Underdark in Forgotten Realms is very much not particularly nice to anyone trying to live there who isn't either an utter bastard and/or incredibly powerful. Like, Duergar and Drow aren't even remotely the worst threats down there, just the most commonly encountered since they live fairly close to the surface themselves. Get a bit deeper and you start running into really horrible stuff like Beholder hives and Mind Flayer cities. Or any number of liches or other powerful undead that have made lairs down there.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

DoubleNegative posted:


His gimmick is that he can become whatever weapon you want him to be. But two steps forward three steps back. He never powers up until you do his act 5 quest. So he's not very good. But I found a mod recently to let him power up once per act that we're gonna be using going forward. He gets a +1 smacked onto the end of his name for each act you progress through, which is pretty fair. And a +1 weapon in act 1 is hardly gamebreaking.

This is flat out wrong, as he has an accessible upgrade available very early in Chapter 3, and it's arguably better to keep him in that middle form than get the Chapter 5 upgrade. Mainly because it's a +3 weapon with two properties, vs. a +5 weapon with only 1... and Greater Magic Weapon exists. Though by Chapter 5 you should have likely found something better anyways, unless you're using something truly rare or are really overloading the party on a single weapon.

It is possible to miss the middle upgrade though, as it requires you to remember to actually talk to him after the relevant event. It's also been a bit buggy in the past and has possibly required unequipping him for it to register. Basically like Radiance, where I'm pretty sure the game doesn't upgrade the existing copy but rather creates a new instance of the weapon but requires it to be unequipped to work - there's a reason Radiance tends to unequip itself whenever you hit an upgrade stage.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

JustJeff88 posted:

One of my problems with systems like Pathfinder/3&3.5D&D is that there is too much focus on damage avoidance and not on mitigation.

That's mainly an issue of damage generation far outscaling prevention mechanics in the systems. Which does somewhat make sense - if you're going to allow scaling mechanics, then it's less dangerous for the former to get out of hand then the latter. Or in other words, you can potentially dodge that incoming 500 damage hit through various means, but if someone stacks 100 damage reduction then that's a blanket "you must be this damaging to do ANYTHING to this character" restriction. The counter to this would be "just don't do a system with heavy scaling," which is a fair complaint, but many people like big numbers. Alternatively do percentage reduction, but good luck selling people on that for an actual PnP game.

On the bright side, damage mitigation should likely be more prevalent in their next game, because it's inspired by Rogue Trader instead of 3.5/Pathfinder. Both health and damage don't scale TOO much past starting values in the base system, so armor/abilities simply mitigating damage instead of blocking it is far more consistent. How closely it'll actually skew is still unclear - there's a reason I said "inspired by" instead of "uses" - but even if it's vaguely similar than mitigation should be much more important.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Szarrukin posted:

I like Ember, she's pretty good subversion of both "creepy little girl with supernatural powers" (because this time weird little girl uses her powers for good) and "yet another Avellone NPC" (young girl who is unquestionably good instead of old character with "there is literally no difference between good and evil, you moron, you fool" morality)

I think the only NPCs from WotR I don't like are Camilla and Sosiel, latter mostly because he's so bland. For comparision, NPCs from Kingmaker other than Nok-Nok sucked badly.

I'm going to note here that Nok-Nok was Avellone's pet character for Kingmaker. And his quest line dances a bit uncomfortably on the "literally no difference" line too. So maybe you actually like Avellone characters? Or at least his modern style?

On the companions as a whole, assuming you're including them, you're one of the few people I've seen who doesn't like the DLC party members. For the rest I don't agree they're all bad, but there's definitely overall more mixed feelings about them in the community.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

DoubleNegative posted:




There's a kitty we can adopt over here.



Right now I'm giving it to Liz. As long as we have it summoned, we get the passive bonuses. Lore (Nature) isn't a tagged skill, so we'll give it to someone who can make better use of it eventually.

This inclusion was in memoriam of a CC's cat who died shortly before launch.


Szarrukin posted:

I love how we can accuse poor Curl of robbing corpses and literally one second later loot nearest fallen enemies ourselves.

In complete fairness, we're usually looting the corpses we created ourselves. That's just spoils of war, much more morally acceptable. :v:

The more dubious activity is searching through all those random containers in abandoned houses.

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

The spyware (or whatever) addition was potentially liable to get them banned/sued in various countries the way it had been implemented, so even ignoring the customer opinion aspect it was an incredibly poor idea all around. It means I'll watch what they're doing more closely, but it was SUCH a stupid implementation that without knowing the reasoning behind the addition I'll hold off on passing too much judgement on them unless/until more information comes out.





Synthbuttrange posted:

this lp actually prompted me to get the game when it was on deep discount during one of the big sales. I found the character creation and levelling utterly impenetrable and your party getting ambushed and sleepy all the time too annoying to actually play with and gave up :v

If only it had a mod to turn this into a visual novel


It may not turn the game into a literal VN, but here's the mod to mostly turn it into a walkover where you get your anime on.

Isekai Mod

It's exactly as silly and OP as you might think.

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