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DKII posted:What am I, the prosecutor? Do I really have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that Mr. Sahwit is the killer just to get Larry off?
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Jul 28, 2022 00:46
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Part 10: Episode 1, Epilogue: Celebration and Foreshadowing  He posed as a newspaper salesman to check and see when people were out of the house! That day... After he left, Mr. Sahwit let himself in to do his dirty work! Flustered, Mr. Sahwit grabbed the nearest blunt object he could find...   Same day, we're back in the lobby a couple hours later... Music: Victory! The First Victory  Me either!   Congratulations!Even Mia is happy!  Literally. Even if we made every right choice, it's Mia's intervention at the end that kept us from giving up.  It's been awhile since I've seen a trial end on such a satisfying note! (I've never seen the chief looking this happy...) (If she's this glad, imagine how Larry must feel!)Oh, no...     Aww, Nick... Man wtf with this guy.   ... But... but my Cindy-windy's gone, man! Gone forever! (Larry, she was a... Nah... Never mind.) Now who doesn't know our client's name, hmmmm? H-Harry...? Did we switch places or something? Also, Harry Butz, Hairy Butts, haha. I don't usually find those funny but this game has broken through to me.   I won't forget this, ever! Let's celebrate! Dinner? Movie? My treat!  Dude Larry would have been executed by sundown without Mia keeping us in line.  Oh, hey! ...Larry how did you get your hands on the murder weapon, and why do you think it would make a good present for someone?   Wait... Wasn't this the evidence that... I made one for her and one for me.It's hard to see but Larry's left arm is swinging back and forth in this sprite and appears to be missing a hand. What the hell? Actually, let me go into my second file with the transparency maxed out and snap it:  Weird, right?  ... Well, thank you. I'll keep it as a memento.The last girl he gave one to wound up dead....  What is with this dude pulling out new sprites at the last minute? One sec...  Can you believe it? I was so into that chick... And... And she was just playing me for a fool! Don't that make you wanna just cry? *sob* Larry... ... Ex-squeeze me? I think she thought quite a lot of you, in her own way. Nah, you don't gotta sympathize with me, 'sokay. Isn't that right, Wright? Don't you have something to show your friend? Something that proves how she felt about him? H-huh? Oh, yeah, right! This guy just won a murder trial, everyone.  Obviously we're showing him the murder weapon/statue/clock.   Huh...? What about that clock?Wait, why do we have the murder weapon? Eh, never mind.  And she took it with her when she traveled. You think so? It's a pretty heavy clock to take traveling. ... Well, make of it what you will. ... Hey, Nick. Really, I am. Thanks. quote:I played this so long ago I forgot this scene was even here. Let me get my other file up to this point to intentionally fail it and see what happens. Music: Silence  I hope you see the importance of evidence now. Also, hopefully you realize, things change depending on how you look at them. People, too. All we can do is believe in them. And in order to believe in them, you have to believe in yourself. Wright... Listen. Learn. Grow strong. Music: Victory! The First Victory  Yeah, I guess so! We'll drink a toast to innocenct Butz! Yeah! You were saying part of why you became a lawyer was because of him. Er, yeah. Part, at least.  Larry slapped me on the back and said, "Gee, Nick, it's good to have friends!" But I'm pretty sure he's not going to pay us. Unless you count the clock he gave Mia. ... ...but that clock was soon going to be at the center of another incident.You better not kill Mia, game. Music: Silence And my promise to tell the chief about me and Larry... ...Dammit.  That's the first episode (finally) complete!  And a new one unlocked! Music: Jingle - It Can't End Here  We get prompted to save, so I take advantage of the opportunity. Episode 1 review: Despite some cringeworthy moments and a legal system that doesn't seem to make sense, the game is both charming and fun. (The legal system is a lot closer to that of Japan, despite seeming to take place in the US west coast area, and wow does that look horrifying if you're actually innocent.) Phoenix is actually a relatable main character as a fresh attorney thrown into a murder trial right out of law school in order to defend his best friend. The gameplay conceits, despite not making sense sometimes, actually work to make for an enjoyable experience, and I'm looking forward to more complicated cases later on in the game. Now I have to sidetrack on some excerpts from that Wikipedia article I linked there:
That's more of a culture shock to Americans in particular than necessarily bad. Japan also has an incredibly low incarceration rate (37 per 100,000, compared to a staggering 358 per 100,000 in the US), the prosecutors have a lot of discretion to not try cases at all, and an accused that isn't brought to trial has their identity kept secret so they can more easily re-enter society. The Japenese government also only employs 2,000 prosecutors for a population of 125 million (compared to almost 10,000 prosecutors for a population of 330 million in the US), so prosecutors are motivated to only spend their limited time on trials where they are certain of guilt and a conviction. Anyway, back to the game. One thing I can point out now after the fact: For the main contradiction on which we originally caught out Mr. Sahwit, the time being 1:00 PM (and specifically him hearing it), the witness wasn't actually lying! He was wrong, but that line was the only substantial part of his testimony where he wasn't lying, and the one he was most confident about, and it's what we used to unravel his whole story. That's a well-crafted narrative, and impressive for what's really more of a tutorial episode. I can also see why these are so hard to LP. That episode took me a half-hour to play through the first time, without exploring any of the extra dialogue. Yet actually posting it all took up 10 updates and more hours of re-recording footage and writing it all up than I'm willing to admit. Luckily I have an efficient workflow I worked out while LP'ing another visual novel, and doing this game blind means I'm still looking forward to experiencing the rest of the game (at least so far). I'll try and keep it up! Next time, we'll dive into Episode 2!
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Jul 29, 2022 02:29
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One thing I really like about the Phoenix Wright games is the back-and-forth nature of cross examining witnesses. I find it really satisfying to just hammer on a problem from multiple angles until you can really nail it down. It's a refreshing departure from how most adventure games work.
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Jul 29, 2022 02:39
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They kill off Mia in the second episode? drat mentor occupational hazards! I wonder if Larry will get accused again?
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Jul 29, 2022 02:59
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DKII posted:Also, Harry Butz, Hairy Butts, haha. I don't usually find those funny but this game has broken through to me. DKII posted:Anyway, back to the game. One thing I can point out now after the fact: For the main contradiction on which we originally caught out Mr. Sahwit, the time being 1:00 PM (and specifically him hearing it), the witness wasn't actually lying! He was wrong, but that line was the only substantial part of his testimony where he wasn't lying, and the one he was most confident about, and it's what we used to unravel his whole story. That's a well-crafted narrative, and impressive for what's really more of a tutorial episode. Also - between the opening show how the crime was committed, and having the turnabout come from just one thing that the murderer doesn't realize will come back to bite them is very Columbo
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Jul 29, 2022 02:59
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Columbo is very popular in Japan and no doubt is part of the inspiration for these games
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Jul 29, 2022 03:03
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the update posted:It's hard to see but Larry's left arm is swinging back and forth in this sprite and appears to be missing a hand. What the hell? Actually, let me go into my second file with the transparency maxed out and snap it: Since Larry is, well Larry, his coat doesnt fit him and has sleeves that are way too long. That bend right at the end is his hand inside the sleeve.
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Jul 29, 2022 03:23
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Yeah, he's not armless, just harmless.
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Jul 29, 2022 03:25
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Part 11: Episode 2, Prologue: Sister Act Welcome back, let's continue on to the second episode! Music: Silence  We start off this episode, not with a movie, but with a phone call.   This scene insists on using "???" for this character even though she clearly introduces herself.  Music: Turnabout Sisters Ballad  Sorry, I've been so busy. How've you been? Well, LONELY. And it's all YOUR fault. Nah, I'm just teasing. I've been great! I'm finally getting used to having my own place. That's good to hear. I know, I know. You want me to hold evidence for you? Sharp as always! There's a lot of buzz about the upcoming trial... I just don't feel safe keeping the evidence here. It's... a clock.No... A clock? No! I thought you might like it. You always liked toys. Hey! I'm not a little girl anymore, Sis!So I guess Mia and Maya are the "Turnabout Sisters" from the episode title?  Ah, I should probably tell you, the clock isn't talking right now. Huh? It's not working? That's lame! I had to take the clockwork out. Sorry. I put some papers inside instead. Papers? Is that the evidence, then?Cool way of hiding stuff though.  I'm pretty sure that should be Mia's line? Makes more sense that way, at least. Can you come by the office tonight, say 9:00, to pick it up? I'll be in a pretrial meeting until then. Okay, Sis, but I expect dinner! Something good! Like... burgers! I could really go for a good burger. Okay, okay. We'll hit the usual joint. Okay, Sis, see you soon! Yep. I'll be waiting, Maya.   Music: Silence  A little more than a month after our last episode. It's almost 9pm, time for Maya to visit Mia?  This mystery voice doesn't have quite the same feel as Maya...  Miss Fey, you are a poor liar. Why, I see it right over there... That must be "The Thinker" that swallowed those papers. Ho hoh. You are not cogniferous of my background?That's...not a word.  I.. I should have been more careful. Ho hoh. My dear Miss Fey... I am so very sorry. But I am afraid I must ask you for one more thing.Music: Suspense  !!!That wasn't exactly subtle foreshadowing last update, but I was still hoping I was wrong...   Man, gently caress this guy. We once again can recognize the killer on sight, and also know he somehow heard the phone call between Mia and Maya.  We leave off with what might be a clue? No idea who said it. If it was even someone speaking.
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Jul 31, 2022 00:21
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Dun Dun DUNNN!
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Jul 31, 2022 00:26
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"Man, gently caress this guy" is pretty much the appropriate response to him, yeah. I mean...you got a better picture of him on the case showcase image. Just loving look at him and tell me he's not the biggest sleazebag on the planet. He does have one of my favorite names in this game, though.
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Jul 31, 2022 00:53
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Cogniferous!
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Jul 31, 2022 01:12
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This mother fucker. I feel that in a different reality, cogniferous would be a perfectly cromulent word.
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Jul 31, 2022 01:20
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Man, I wonder how that guy settled on that hairstyle. It's perfected for that "rich douchebag" vibe
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Jul 31, 2022 01:25
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Rythian posted:Cogniferous! My favourite type of tree.
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Jul 31, 2022 02:17
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drat, killing our boss is a pretty big swing for the game to drop this early on. But also, what the gently caress Mia? The fact her sister heard a favor and jumped immediately to "hiding evidence" makes it obvious this is a semi-regular thing.
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Jul 31, 2022 03:00
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thats right everyone, our killer for this episode is... Pink Mitt Romney!
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Jul 31, 2022 03:08
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Localization trivia: Our friend's name here is Konaka Masaru in the Japanese script, written as 小中大. Those three characters individually mean "small", "medium", and "large". His speech quirk originally was the use of gratuitous English inserted into his sentences. The localizers chose to turn that into sprinkling in fake big words, but an alternative I've seen in other games is sprinkling in gratuitous French. Either way it's a bit of an expression of arrogance.
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Jul 31, 2022 04:24
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Tarezax posted:Localization trivia: [Modnote: no spoilers means no spoilers dammit] [edit: I didn't write the modnote. Mods, please don't put words in my mouth.] oobitydoo fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jul 31, 2022 |
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Jul 31, 2022 16:04
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Not cool. Knowing this jerks Japanese name spoils nothing about the localization. In fact, it makes me appreciate it more.
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Jul 31, 2022 16:21
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Walla posted:Not cool. The modnote isn't about the quoted bit, it was about whatever was in the reply before the mods scrubbed it and replaced it with the modnote.
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Jul 31, 2022 17:28
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My reply was about the spoiler actually. Though I didn't report it.
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Jul 31, 2022 18:31
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Got it, jokes aren't allowed in here. I'll take my leave. Have fun y'all.
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Jul 31, 2022 20:34
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oobitydoo posted:Got it, jokes aren't allowed in here. I'll take my leave. Have fun y'all. The gently caress? That's a weird reaction dude. I didn't see what you originally posted but spoilers are spoilers. I deliberately avoided giving any other context around the guy's name for that reason.
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Jul 31, 2022 21:36
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Tarezax posted:Localization trivia:
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Jul 31, 2022 22:49
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Tarezax posted:His speech quirk originally was the use of gratuitous English inserted into his sentences. The anime went with the original gratuitous English, and it is hilarious. I'll post a video a bit later on when we're out of spoiler territory.
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Jul 31, 2022 23:19
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Man, that poster sure blue it.
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Aug 1, 2022 00:12
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To be clear, the removed spoiler was Oobity talking about content from the second game. Localization chat isn't a spoiler in and of itself
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Aug 1, 2022 02:34
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Part 12: Episode 2, Investigation: My Nemesis, Hunt-the-Pixel Music: Silence  The time is now 11 minutes later than the last update.  Our hero arrives, just too late to do anything useful. Huh, that's strange. Guess the chief left without me. She said her sister was coming over so we should all go out for dinner... ... Blood...?Music: Suspense   I was wondering if this game was really going to be all courtroom, but it looks like we get to move around and investigate in some scenes, too.  Clicking "Examine" gives us a little magnifying glass to go pixel-hunting for clues. Right now though everything we click gives us the same text:  I have to check and see if Mia... the chief's okay!I took a 3-day break from playing here because I didn't want to see what happened next. Eventually though we have to "Move" on...  We've given a list of destinations; right now our only option is to go into the office. Music: Silence  ...The killer's still here! *sob*Never mind, it's probably Maya, she was supposed to meet us around the same time, too. Sis... Phoenix is refusing to look around and I understand completely, but now...    Chief? Chief...? We fade to black for a moment, and I almost stopped playing again.   ...A crash, and we fade to black again...  (I went back to the chief where she lay under the window.) (I could feel it when I held her shoulder.) (Then, all too quickly, it began to fade...)  Just in case, like me, you were still holding out hope. Apparently we only deal in murders here. So are we going to jump in cold on whatever trial Mia was worried about, or is Maya going to be accused of Mia's murder?Music: Investigation - Core  I know it's a trope for the older mentor character to be killed early on so that the young hero can come into their own, but I was not expecting anything like this until the game started dropping hints at the end of the last episode. And even then I kept hoping I was wrong.  Time to investigate! To my delight, the magnifying glass changes color when there is something worthwhile to see! You can just click anywhere to move the magnifying glass and click again to examine something. You can also sweep the magnifying glass around with the arrow keys to look for where it lights up.  Like this nice window!  The "Gatewater Hotel." A nice, luxurious place.Seems to be a play on "Watergate", an American political scandal involving, among other things, using the federal government to spy on political opponents, that eventually wound up with the sitting president resigning from office (the only one to ever do so). Here the reference could just be flavor text, or could be a hint that someone was spying on the Fey Offices? We saw that the earlier phone call between Mia and Maya had been recorded by someone else, after all. I'm probably reading too much into it.  This game really is user-friendly. Once there's nothing more to see at a particular spot, the magnifying glass gains a checkmark. Further clicks just repeat the previous text.  No, I'm not avoiding looking at Mia, I'm just being... thorough.  They seem to be the remains of a glass light stand. Fine, fine. If you've played through any crime adventure games of this nature, examining the victim is usually pretty high on the priority list.  It's hard seeing her like this, but if there are any clues here... She was struck on the head with a blunt object. She probably died instantly. Again.  Up until now, the Court Record has just had our attorney's badge and the profile for Mia. These investigation scenes seem to allow us to collect new evidence on our own, rather than just relying on what the prosecutor gives us.  We're not done yet - the glass shards we looked at earlier are suddently relevant now.  I didn't actually click on the light again, this text just continued automatically.  Not sure how these will fit in yet. But you can often reconstruct what happened during a crime like this one, by where the debris ends up, and more importantly what's underneath vs on top of it.  This statement is incorrect. Can you see it?  A piece of paper! It must have fallen from Mia's hand! What could it be? We actually have to click on it this time. ! "Maya"...? Did Mia write this?Okay we're totally going to be defending Maya.   Looks like we have a common theme of the actual killer framing our client once again here. Writing someone's name in your own blood... easy interpretation is that they were identifying the killer! Except we just saw that it seemed like Mia was killed instantly...  (I'd better call the police...) The game also helpfully identifies when you've found everything important in a scene.  We're not actually forced out of the investigation though, so we can continue to collect flavor text. Some evidence will have slightly different dialogue the second time you click it, so the magnifying glass stays lit up without the checkmark in that case.  How ironic that this became the murder weapon... again.Just in case you had any doubts that this statue/clock was the murder weapon again. Though to be fair, this particular statue/clock is not the same one that was the murder weapon in the first episode; this one is the second copy, given to Mia by Larry.  It's painful to look... but I have to, for Mia's sake. Looks like she was hit in the head with a blunt weapon. She probably died instantly.Eh that one was mostly the same. One more here:  The chief's chair. A simple, functional design. Feels pretty good to sit in, too. If you click somewhere that isn't lit up...  Thanks.  Anyway, now we're done. Wait, what's that "Slide" option?  Oh, we get to see the rest of the office. This part must be how we call the police. I'll leave the phone until last though. First, the shelves here. All the chief's important documents are packed in here. This is where she filed her case records and recent rulings. Any interesting data in the computer itself? Surprisingly, the chief was never good with machines. About all she used this PC for was e-mail. She picked up this ancient model at some garage sale for practically nothing.Apparently not. Moving on...  How about the desk? A perfectly normal office desk. The chief had a very particular policy about office décor: "Spend big on stuff the clients use, but keep your own stuff simple." Looks like this book can be examined separately... The Fey & Co. ledger book. Everything is written in the chief's ultra-neat handwriting. It's a small office, but it makes a good bit of money.Nothing there either. Does the ultra-neat handwriting match the bloody receipt? Eh, even if it didn't, I guess the trauma could explain that.  Let's finally look at the phone.  ...? That's funny... It looks like someone was halfway through taking it apart.Despite that interesting revelation, we don't get to take the phone into evidence, because...  We're interrupted! Please, come quick! (Wh-what was that!?)  ...! She's staring right at me!Well, that wasn't suspicious at all. A lookout for the killer maybe? Would fit in with the hint in the name of the "Gatewater" hotel. More evidence that will no doubt be used to frame our client again.   Fade to black, and we're back at the investigation screen. Let's see what the phone has to say this time. The phone receiver is missing a few screws. I'd better not use it.But it's not evidence for the court record? Eh, whatever. Maybe the killer got interrupted taking a recording device out of it?  Looking out the window again doesn't do anything, so it's time to head back to the main entrance...next time!
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Aug 2, 2022 04:46
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mia... even when you know it's coming, maya crying over mia's body and phoenix feeling her go cold is still heartbreaking
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Aug 2, 2022 05:06
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On a lighter note, fun fact: the whole 'magnifying glass and check marks' thing was not in the original version of these, nor in their sequel Apollo Justice. I definitely remember getting hung up on some spots where I hadn't examined the single area the game actually WANTED me to look at. However, it is in Dual Destinies, and I assume it's in Spirit of Justice as well since that game came out after DD.
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Aug 2, 2022 07:10
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That sounds frustrating.
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Aug 2, 2022 10:36
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it largely depends on how willing you are to poke and prod at literally everything you can to get flavor text.
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Aug 2, 2022 13:48
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In fairness, nearly everything you need to examine actually stands out reasonably well, so you don't usually need to spend ages pixel hunting.
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Aug 2, 2022 14:27
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theshim posted:In fairness, nearly everything you need to examine actually stands out reasonably well, so you don't usually need to spend ages pixel hunting. The key word being "usually"...
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Aug 2, 2022 15:23
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theshim posted:In fairness, nearly everything you need to examine actually stands out reasonably well, so you don't usually need to spend ages pixel hunting. Right up until you're hunting for that One Thing You Missed to advance and can't find to save your (client's) life. I adore the Phoenix trilogy and have played them easily a dozen times and I still find myself pixel hunting on occasion. You do at least find some great flavor text that way. The quality of life improvements in recent entries are really great and this is high on the list along with restarting from the specific testimony segment or question if you run out of health in a trial rather than going back to your last save or an semi-arbitrarily defined checkpoint.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:30
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Leraika posted:it largely depends on how willing you are to poke and prod at literally everything you can to get flavor text. But some of the games' best lines are in flavor text! Also, has anyone, ever, actually written out their killer's name in blood with no further context? Like, even written in blood, there are so many things that an out of context name could mean. I dunno, this plot device comes up often in a lot of things and it never fails to feel forced. Especially in situations like this where it's the world's worst frame.
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Aug 2, 2022 15:33
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Haar_Dragon posted:But some of the games' best lines are in flavor text! I know! I love poking and prodding and the silly things Phoenix says!
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Aug 2, 2022 15:36
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DKII posted:
THAT'S NOT HOW IRONY WORKS ARGH
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Aug 2, 2022 18:23
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| # ? May 12, 2024 11:31 |
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Leraika posted:I know! I love poking and prodding and the silly things Phoenix says! [Modnote: I like Awkward Zombie too, but c'mon that comic is from the sixth game and the OP says no spoilers] Somebody fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Aug 3, 2022 |
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Aug 2, 2022 18:31
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