Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

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Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

AnimeIsTrash posted:

Do you all remember the close combat series? I used to love playing the WW2 ones when I was a kid. What happened to that series?

A 3d version centered around the American campaign in north Africa came out recently, I found it mediocre. I loving love close combat and I would dearly love it if someone could make a mod for the old 2d games that made the ai not-garbage, a feat that seems would be really easy with modern technology. Successfully executing a pin and flank with infantry, or an advance under smoke cover, or flanking a kv1 and forcing the crew to bail for morale reasons alone is just incredible.

Cross of iron is my favorite because it doesn't have the dubious strategic map layer, you just get that beautiful back and forth ebb and flow of retreating and advancing over the same piece of ground over and over, being able to just flee to positions in the rear is imo much more realistic than the bullshit morale bar of the later games that requires you too get completely hosed up before you auto bail.

Slavvy has issued a correction as of 03:02 on Aug 6, 2022

# ¿ Aug 6, 2022 02:59

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 11:23

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

palindrome posted:

I think "Close Combat: Last Stand Arnhem" tacked on a goofy strategic layer that wasn't in the original game. I don't really see it adding anything to the original CC2, the back-to-back battles were cool and kept the tempo up. You also felt at the mercy of the supposed historical timeline since you had limited influence over it. I'm not sure if you have to choose both the next battle location, and what time you want the battle to begin and end, but whatever is going on I don't particularly care for it.

CC3 had the cool feature where you got to name your commander so you could roleplay as RAZPUTIN! hosing down nazis with a ppsh-41or whatever. The little killboard after-action report was fun, you could see that private Conrad had 2 panzer kills, a silver star, and was then permanently crippled and taken off the line.

I wish some of these Gettysburg or hell WW2 games would have that level of detail down to tracking individual soldiers' names, battles, kills, and awards. Give me dwarf fortress legends mode, but for the american civil war. Procedural generation is just fine but go ahead and fill in the names from the historical rolls if those are handy.

Imo last stand arnhem had the only worthwhile use of the strategic layer because it gave some kind of direction to the battles in that you'd constantly be trying to cut the neck of the allied thrust as the Germans, or frantically trying to charge through to the Paras as the allies.

In eg Panthers in the mist it was totally worthless.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2022 07:00

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

The Battle of Cedar Mountain, turn 7

Our artillery does NOT have line-of-sight to the Confederate assault on our center, so we direct our fire to the next best thing.

The rebels having outmaneuvered our artillery siting notwithstanding, the 15th Alabama at the southern end of our line loses 91 men under the combined fire of seven batteries.

The Purnell Maryland Legion and the 1st District Columbia regiment, with Brig. Gen. Greene leading the charge, fires their rifle muskets, then charges Jubal Early's Virginians, and throws them back.

I shuffle around some of our troops to make sure fresh ones at the forefront, and the Disrupted regiments can recover at the back.

On our left, we continue firing where we can.

On our right, the Ohioans of Geary's brigade pour fire on the advancing Alabamans. Those are still the smoothbore-wieldiing troops - the range has closed so there's no utility to shuffling around to the rifle-muskets, but the latter do form into line.

Finally, I pull our cavalry back up the road - it's too hot for them to really do anything, and they've done all the scouting I need for now.

After the inter-turn:

Trimble's 15th Alabama routs after taking tremendous losses, and the two other regiments in the brigade retreat.

Johnson's brigade (all the way on the western edge, in brown) has regrouped, and looks like is going to take another attack at The Gate.

Early's troops and the Stonewall brigade are now mixed-in with each other, and they're right up against our center, but no assaults were launched this turn.

As a treat, here's a shot of what the game looks like if you use the "3D" view.

Casualties

Union Infantry: 351 total (+124 from last turn)
Union Cavalry: 9 total (+4 from last turn)

Confederate Infantry: 1,045 total (+407 from last turn)

Is there a pointless futile bayonet charge mechanic?

# ¿ Aug 7, 2022 01:12

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

Holy poo poo Warlords 3 Darklords Rising got a gog.com release in 2019 and I only found out about it now

Holy poo poo. Fucken warlords!

# ¿ Aug 9, 2022 18:47

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

I assume the reds are fully playable and supported?

I've got a bone to pick with Wargaming Assumptions About Soviet Doctrine and Equipment Based on the Ukraine War

This honestly makes me reluctant to pick up and cold war game nowadays cause the developers never picked up anything besides a Jane's vehicle guide and the soviets are just 'NATO, but worse!'

the bitcoin of weed posted:

how is Regiments compared to World in Conflict? similar setting but hard to tell if it plays anywhere near the same

WiC was a borderline arcade game so I hope it's better than that.

Frosted Flake posted:

I wish they’d have Combat Mission/Steel Beasts fidelity at a larger scale, or even just a slower pace but I understand why that’s not what everybody wants from a RTS.

I’ll still give it a whirl, WARNO having some competition can only be for the best.

Doesn't steel beasts have no infantry or am I thinking of something else

# ¿ Aug 18, 2022 18:32

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

I know we lost the war really hard but you see it wasn't MY incompetence at fault, just read my memoir where I killed ten thousand t34's with a kar98 and you'll understand *leans back in NATO armchair*

# ¿ Aug 18, 2022 18:50

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Mandoric posted:

E: Yes, yes, this is it! Your first domestically-produced tower crane, built under license from Czech or DDR plans but where every girder is domestic steel forged from domestic iron and coal, and every gear machined by domestic workers, rolls off the production line and is ready to be hauled to a construction office to start its career of lifting prefab panels into place. There it will do the hard work of 20 men and women who are now freed to pursue more intellectually engaging careers.
If your reaction is "why did I spend the past 3 hours and ₽200k on plans for this when I could have just paid 30,000 of my ten million rubles, or even better just paid 50,000 of my ten million rubles to have Uncle Joe/Uncle Nicky instabuild that apartment block", W&R probably won't hit for you unless you're very into the Warsaw Pact urban aesthetic.
If, on the other hand, you're relishing the idea that your 7th and beyond cranes cost only labor-time now that you've built up the productive forces, or you're already hearing in your heart an orchestra cue up at the ceremony to cut the ribbon and honor the most dedicated workers on the line, then it's a "wait it's dawn already? poo poo" banger.

You have successfully sold me on trying this game.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2022 20:27

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

John Charity Spring posted:

the biggest individual car parks you can place in W&R have like 24 spaces or something lol. I guess you could put a shitload of them all together

I'm halfway through the tutorials on w&r and it's easily the best game of this kind I've played. Also very uplifting instead of just increasingly immiserating and stressful.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2022 09:02

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Danann posted:

It looks like a single player War Thunder with modern gear and without the F2P stuff ngl.

It looks loving rad but on the other hand

quote:

is a simulation game about modern mounted combat, with special attention to authenticity and fun.

It's impossible for both of those to be true

# ¿ Sep 7, 2022 04:52

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Does anyone anywhere anytime actually love the m60? Besides the fat fucks who got used to a living room sized turret.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2022 22:04

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Wasn’t it cheaper to buy, run and easier to maintain than M1 by a wide margin? USMC took theirs to the Gulf, maybe there’s a comparative study.

I mean a t55 is all of those things compared to a t90 but I know what I'd rather be in.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 01:48

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

supposedly it was made with "space age technology" circa 1960, so it was called the starship because it was so very advanced for its time

The space age tech of putting a tiny turret on top of the main turret.

No don't look up when this was first tried or how well it worked, it is space age tech goddammit

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 02:54

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

The Americans had already done that with the M3 Lee

The *everyone* had already done that with *every interwar tank*

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 02:59

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

I just mean it was within their own design tradition. Guys who had trained on the Lee were the senior officers overseeing the design of the M60, this is how these things happen.

The lee was a desperate stopgap while they figured out iirc Sherman turret casting, I doubt anyone involved thought it was a great idea worth bringing back. Plus the entirety of WW2 demonstrated that the turret crew has enough on their plate without giving them extra fun jobs. Starship was just cold war MIC grift bullshit.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 03:28

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

It was a great solution if your requirements are:

Be able to do adequate infantry support and take on pz3 and 4
Not be a garbage British tank
Be available right fucken now

Surprisingly few such options available to the western allies in 1941! It's biggest value was surely teaching American industry how to build a proper tank so they could churn out a billion Shermans. Like most American stuff it was more than good enough for the job in the timeframe available. But if you were starting from scratch with all the cold war grift money in the west being thrown at you, you wouldn't do anything like it.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 07:22

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

KomradeX posted:

Oh hey next major Warno update is going to to incorporate ~~ambitious~~ amphibious vehicles to all the ones that have those. So rivers and lakes are no longer secure flanks from the Soviets

For maximum screeching about unfairness this should also extend to soviet tanks' organic river crossing provisions

# ¿ Sep 18, 2022 00:28

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Combat mission: Ukraine rules Russia drools eastern hordes mission pack

# ¿ Sep 18, 2022 04:13

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Tekopo posted:

honestly wonder how Combat Mission: Black Sea stacks up now lmao

The artillery is pathetic and every mission has more oplots than Ukraine had irl in total.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2022 10:06

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Red Thunder has so much wasted potential because the campaigns and now the battlepack are all of that Death Ride of the Panzers poo poo and not about… you know the army that won the war.

Disappointed to learn this but not surprised

# ¿ Sep 18, 2022 19:40

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

XCOM2 was good in that it let you eat a loss without killing the main geoscape momentum, and it even has a bunch of "on-death" bonuses to make you think like it's acceptable for someone to die, but the squad size is still too small

Wait what? Seriously? I always just scummed outta there if I lost even a single troop.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 01:05

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Paradoxish posted:

I've won (unmodded) XCOM2 WOTC games where I lost tons and tons of people. Pretty much anything is recoverable, and it actually gets kind of hard to lose outright in the late game no matter how many losses you take.

Late game sure, at that point you're practically invincible from all the ability synergies, maybe I just really suck but I found in the mid game if I lost too many of my experienced guys I could never recover.

For me it's one of those annoying games that gets easier as you go instead of the right way around.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 03:38

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Armadillo Tank posted:

Imagine having to save scum in the good xcoms to avoid casualties. Pathetic.

*disappears in smoke grenade throw by supporting units after spending my TUs pointing out you failures as a human being (spamming autofire)*

This makes me want to play the original really badly now. An average mission being like 60% casualty rate is how god intended it. Does it even run on modern systems?

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 19:12

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 19:17

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Takanago posted:

One of the best parts of classic (open)xcom is being able to use conventional high explosives to blow a hole in the side of a ufo instead of going through the front door

You could do this in the new one too, most of the terrain was destructible

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 20:12

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Used to be people, the peacetime compromise is non-sentient vatgrown human meat. Everyone's happy!

# ¿ Sep 25, 2022 21:34

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Is it possible to make a game like civ/hoi which accounts for material reality at all? Or would you just be perpetually locked into doing stuff give or take as it happened irl? I don't play games like that please don't be mad at me

# ¿ Sep 26, 2022 23:06

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Dreylad posted:

I wonder if the biggest hurdle to doing a game that's more based on a material history is it runs counter to what most of your players believe and so you'd run into problems of people struggling to succeed because everything is counterintuitive unless you abstract things enough that you teach them to play your game. Like AoE or something.

Wasn't there a text based strategy MMO that did exactly this and it resulted in loads of people complaining that starting a new country against established incumbents was impossible?

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 19:56

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Brandon Proust posted:

it�s a modern paradox game, why the gently caress does anyone give a poo poo

Some people just really love garbage. I love 80's action movies, I know a guy super into shlocky old kung fu movies, and here is a thread full of people who think paradox make good games,

# ¿ Oct 25, 2022 00:15

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

"""'fun"'''"

# ¿ Nov 22, 2022 03:38

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

That would explain why from soft interpret weaklings complaining about their games being no fun as praise, ironically it's true in English too

# ¿ Nov 22, 2022 03:52

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Tankbuster posted:

Why didn't the germans put their spaced armor on later era tanks and kept it to the pz3 and 4?

The spaced armour was put there to resist Soviet AT rifles popping up from behind, which the panther and tiger were able to do organically. Contrary to popular belief it did jack poo poo against HEAT warheads and wasn't intended to help with those.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2022 19:18

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Games are for children go do a Marxism outside :bahgawd:

# ¿ Dec 3, 2022 02:29

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Imagine reading intelligence about panicked Americans thinking your tiger tanks are invincible, then deciding they are in fact invincible. Idk if that ever happened but if it did, that's the SS

# ¿ Dec 4, 2022 18:21

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

How do you ethically source human bones for dice? Are there that many d&d for love nerds out there donating their corpses to consumerism?

# ¿ Dec 11, 2022 22:41

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

I would've thought it's more that trains just make sense and when you get them first, which you will for technological reasons, you have to actively destroy them and replace them with cars for religious reasons like America did

# ¿ Jan 8, 2023 01:41

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

I'm referring to the religion of number if that isn't clear btw

# ¿ Jan 8, 2023 01:41

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Are there any good games to do with Napoleonic naval warfare? Been reading the Aubrey maturin books and now I want to hoist some top mizzens, put the enemy in my lee and deliver a thunderous broadside

# ¿ Jan 10, 2023 20:26

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

John Charity Spring posted:

Steam is having a big slate of demos again so I tried that Great War: Western Front game and my impressions from the tutorial were... mixed. I like a lot of what it's doing mechanically in the battles although the campaign layer does seem fiddly. Some of that is how restrictive it is in the tutorial where it lets you do one action at a time but some of it is just UI design. for instance: when you examine an enemy army before a battle it shows you the unit cards if you have intel in the province, but doesn't let you hover over to see what the name of the unit is. but they have distinct art on the cards so you could identify them once you're more familiar with the game, so it's not a deliberate 'fog of war' thing, just an oversight on the tooltip. It's also very easy to misclick and send units on moves that you didn't want.

it's got an admirable commitment to representing different aspects of WW1 combat like... MGs, mortars, different uses for aircraft, the observation balloons, light and heavy artillery, siege artillery, undermining before battle. And I like the way each subsequent battle in an area has an increasingly more hosed-up landscape and more extensive trench network going on.

It's quite good at some aspects of the battles, visually, but it's kind of strange for it to be so bloodless, honestly. I don't want gore fountains or Realistic Dismemberment but you do just see the little figures flop over and then their corpses disappear after some time, and when it's trench fighting you can't make out anything basically. You just watch a number go down on the unit strength bar, and it comes across kind of euphemistic.

I do appreciate that they include Belgian, Indian, ANZAC, and Canadian troops as well as the French, British and Americans, but it's kind of goofy that they went with a 'national bonus' for each. French infantry is cheaper to deploy to represent home field advantage. fair enough. Brits... I think they fire faster or something, mad minute myth poo poo. Americans have an 'affinity for tanks' so they get a morale bonus if tanks are nearby lol. My impression is that these bonuses probably don't mean much at the scale you're fighting at but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway. The tutorial campaign lets you keep playing after you complete the actual tutorial so I was going to do that, but then the game got stuck in an infinite loading loop on the very next battle and I had to end the task. So that was the end of that. It does seem like they've put a lot of thought into the mechanics of how to make a WW1 RTS but... I'm not sure what they've ended up with is actually good.

Thanks for this post, been interested in this game.

I'd argue any 'fun' rts based on WW1 would be inherently inaccurate but basic UI issues are hard to forgive from a non-grognard developer

# ¿ Feb 8, 2023 20:15

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Mister Bates posted:

On the Western Front remains the best WW1 strategy game I have ever played, although it is also a borderline incomprehensible nightmare in which your main enemy is not the Bosch but the interface

You may not like it, but that's just what peak simulation looked like

# ¿ Feb 8, 2023 23:04

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 11:23

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Are you telling me there are hearts of iron rankings or did they make that up?

Either way, if you needed any more evidence it's a poo poo game for losers...

# ¿ Feb 9, 2023 02:35

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