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Andrast posted:Do you exclusively fight against higher level monsters or something where it only triggers on nat1s? I think there were a lot of issues. My players tend to focus fire and it is better to finish off the stunned 1 enemy than to do some damage to a different enemy, which meant the stunned enemy wouldn't actually get a turn. Similarly, he'd often finish lower level enemies with the flurry of blows if they were already damaged. Lower level enemies also aren't really very threatening with their third action, but maybe that's on me. Higher level enemies are basically immune. I can't remember what else came up over the course of many combat heavy sessions, but it was bad.
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Apr 3, 2024 07:30
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Andrast posted:Do you exclusively fight against higher level monsters or something where it only triggers on nat1s? i can't think of a single fight over any campaign i've been in where the most important enemies aren't at least +1
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Apr 3, 2024 07:35
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KPC_Mammon posted:I think there were a lot of issues. My players tend to focus fire and it is better to finish off the stunned 1 enemy than to do some damage to a different enemy, which meant the stunned enemy wouldn't actually get a turn. Similarly, he'd often finish lower level enemies with the flurry of blows if they were already damaged. Lower level enemies also aren't really very threatening with their third action, but maybe that's on me. Higher level enemies are basically immune. I can't remember what else came up over the course of many combat heavy sessions, but it was bad. I would not count 5% minimum every time an enemy is hit as immune, like just on the math it should come up relatively often. atelier morgan posted:i can't think of a single fight over any campaign i've been in where the most important enemies aren't at least +1 Sounds like those campaigns should use more on-level enemies since combats with those tend to be way more interesting than solo bosses
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Apr 3, 2024 07:53
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Andrast posted:Sounds like those campaigns should use more on-level enemies since combats with those tend to be way more interesting than solo bosses they've all been APs so tell that to paizo lmao very few solo bosses, it's just that in a mixed encounter the chaff are the ones against which single target status effects are less valuable and inflicting dead is much easier atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 07:59
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I mean, kind of by the nature of the mechanics the most important enemies will be predisposed to be +X. If anything is noteworthy, it's unlikely to be because it was below PL. 2e inherently skews away from just cc'ing the big bad, but burning limited resources on what feels like a mook doesn't feel rewarding. e: yeah basically this atelier morgan posted:very few solo bosses, it's just that in a mixed encounter the chaff are the ones against which single target status effects are less valuable and inflicting dead is much easier Elysiume fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 08:00
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I mean, that's the advantage of stunning fist. It's not an action you do instead of inflicting dead, it's something you get while in the process of inflicting dead. You are not burning a single resource to use it (aside from the feat obviously), it just happens from time to time to give you action advantage.
Andrast fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 08:13
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Andrast posted:(aside from the feat obviously) Except class feats are a very limited resource and probably the most valuable in the game.
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Apr 3, 2024 08:28
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KPC_Mammon posted:Except class feats are a very limited resource and probably the most valuable in the game. Yeah and Stunning fist is one of the better ones Monk has for those levels. If you're optimizing you are probably taking one of the stronger stances + Ki strike with the vast majority of builds but Stunning fist is solid.
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Apr 3, 2024 08:35
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Andrast posted:Yeah and Stunning fist is one of the better ones Monk has for those levels. If you're optimizing you are probably taking one of the stronger stances + Ki strike with the vast majority of builds but Stunning fist is solid. This is sounding suspiciously close to the earlier talk about ranger feats being useless so I'm going to drop it and just accept that the cool feats I've seen my players use aren't for everyone.
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Apr 3, 2024 16:45
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KPC_Mammon posted:This is sounding suspiciously close to the earlier talk about ranger feats being useless so I'm going to drop it and just accept that the cool feats I've seen my players use aren't for everyone. Eh, I could go either way with it. Monk feats at level 2 are cool, but most of them either work for your build concept or they don't. If you just want to punch people* and don't want to take a second level 1 feat, I could easily see someone just picking between getting critical specialization or Stunning Fist. *Well, just want to punch people as your aesthetic. I'm just saying, if you want to be Bruce Lee he doesn't do a lot of graceful leaping or elaborate holds.
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Apr 3, 2024 17:07
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Stunning Fist is good, certainly the best level 2 monk feat unless you're taking Shooting Stars or something (for which you'd want Stunning Fist anyway)
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Apr 3, 2024 21:17
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Looks like our main healer is probably an Alchemist, how viable is that? Thinking I might switch out Stand Still for Wholeness of Body. Even though Stand Still works quite well with Clinging Shadows' reach trait.
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Apr 3, 2024 21:59
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As long as they spec heavily into Medicine, including Skill feats for it, you'll be golden. Not to mention the possibility of creating multiple elixirs and stuff every day. In my current party, the inventor/alchemist is currently the main out-of-combat healer - though they are level 10 so it's fairly high level. But stuff like Ward Medic, Continual Recovery, and creating Soothing Tonics etc, it's pretty massive.
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Apr 3, 2024 22:11
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finalized Monk edit: Changed from human to half elf/Aiuvarin Level 1: Natural Ambition: Ki Rush Level 1: Ki Strike Level 2: Crushing Grab (an extra 4 dmg is basically another max die roll on Clinging Shadows dmg) Level 4: Stand Still Level 5 Ancestry Otherworldly Magic - Shield Cantrip, so can hold a potion or something or grab two people and not have to futz with a shield Level 6: Whirling Throw Level 8: Clinging Shadows Initiate Rythian posted:As long as they spec heavily into Medicine, including Skill feats for it, you'll be golden. Not to mention the possibility of creating multiple elixirs and stuff every day. In my current party, the inventor/alchemist is currently the main out-of-combat healer - though they are level 10 so it's fairly high level. But stuff like Ward Medic, Continual Recovery, and creating Soothing Tonics etc, it's pretty massive. Ok cool, dude knows what he’s doing so I’ll trust that and my free hands to hold potions. appropriatemetaphor fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 20:21
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Oh hey, another silly question: Has Paizo said anything about remastering non-core classes like Magus, etc?
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Apr 5, 2024 01:35
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S.J. posted:Oh hey, another silly question: Has Paizo said anything about remastering non-core classes like Magus, etc? They're not going to, at least not now. There's some errata out for the stuff that no longer makes sense and that is about it.
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Apr 5, 2024 01:55
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As far as I know, there's no plans to. Or at least, they haven't announced any plans to do it in a way that would lead to them republishing them in a new book. There may be a second errata pass after Player Core 2 to maybe fix things like Summoner feats no longer working quite right with post-Monster Core monster abilities, but I don't know if they're willing to do the kind of major feat reworks you'd want to bring them up to a remastered level that way. Also, if it helps, Magus should be mostly working as intended. Their focus point-restoring feats don't line up, but otherwise they should be good. (Especially since the devs have repeatedly said the class was designed with the assumption you'd only spellstrike with cantrips 90% of the time anyway and use your spell slots for something more interesting, so the spell list changes are pretty much all upside.)
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Apr 5, 2024 01:56
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KPC_Mammon posted:I think there were a lot of issues. My players tend to focus fire and it is better to finish off the stunned 1 enemy than to do some damage to a different enemy, which meant the stunned enemy wouldn't actually get a turn. Similarly, he'd often finish lower level enemies with the flurry of blows if they were already damaged. Lower level enemies also aren't really very threatening with their third action, but maybe that's on me. Higher level enemies are basically immune. I can't remember what else came up over the course of many combat heavy sessions, but it was bad. Focused fire feels really dangerous to me. Like if the players start doing it, then logically it exists in the world as a normal technique and enemies should do it too. Which results in 1 or 2 PCs dead rather than 4 PCs injured.
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Apr 5, 2024 23:23
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Facebook Aunt posted:Focused fire feels really dangerous to me. Like if the players start doing it, then logically it exists in the world as a normal technique and enemies should do it too. Which results in 1 or 2 PCs dead rather than 4 PCs injured. Of course enemy creatures should generally focus down PCs when possible, they just generally stop once the PC goes down. Even an animal or a mindless creature like a zombie knows to go for the weak links. I would think only genuinely autonomous creatures wouldn't do that, something like an ooze or a low quality construct, that might not have enough awareness to know it's harming an enemy. Spreading out the damage between PCs can result in unmemorable fights so I wouldn't make it a default.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:32
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It is I, Glob’rak the Ravener, genius general of the Shambling Horde. These are my elite of the elite soldiers the Bloody Blades. Now battle! And make sure none of you attack the same enemy at the same time!
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Apr 6, 2024 02:46
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sugar free jazz posted:It is I, Glob’rak the Ravener, genius general of the Shambling Horde. These are my elite of the elite soldiers the Bloody Blades. Now battle! And make sure none of you attack the same enemy at the same time! Alternatively; Don't ignore the other enemies who would be free to do things like cast spells or take other actions unimpeded. Focus fire makes sense and I'm not knocking it, but it's not foolproof.
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Apr 6, 2024 03:01
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I think the most sensible thing is to just determine targeting narratively. Sure, if you're fighting a squad of battle hardened mercenaries they might know that it's important to focus fire and take down the guy in fancy robes in the back, but a zombie would just keep attacking the first thing in front of it and a minotaur might switch targets to whoever last hit it in a blind rage.
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Apr 7, 2024 01:15
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atelier morgan posted:they've all been APs so tell that to paizo lmao I have. I understand that everybody is short on time but honestly one of the best things I've learned from running the frequently-execrable Abomination Vault is to use my prep to take at least 3 minutes per encounter to really think about it, then use a little google power to see if I can't easily make a better fight that isn't "a big hitting over-leveled monster". About half the time it's trivial to do so and this game plays SO much better if everything is on-level or below, at least at the levels I've been at (lvl 5 and lower).
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Apr 8, 2024 00:07
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Better? Ehhhhh. A lot easier to unga bunga your way through, especially if there are AoE effects on your side? Absolutely. Like by doing that, you almost completely remove anything incapacitation-related from the game. One level higher is really not too much - it's really easy to just miss that it's happened. I think twice my players just casually murdered a thing a level higher level than them without taking damage. One fun one was the level 3 enemy from the first part of Blood Lords, who my party eviscerated without taking any damage despite me having heard that other parties got a PC killed twice in that area. (It got zoned, placed in Grease, tripped, and got literally 1 action before it died - which was attempting to move out of the Grease, which it failed.)
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Apr 8, 2024 03:22
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I'm going to run the popular 1e AP Mummy's Mask converted to 2e for my in-person group - it's been a long standing promise for them and I'm finally getting prepped but the remaster kind of happened in between. There are at least 3 different DTRPG / PF Infinite products converting this AP; has anyone used them or played in a conversion? Just looking for tips, etc. and also trying to determine if I try and semi-convert it a second time to remaster rules.
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Apr 8, 2024 21:45
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Cyouni posted:Better? Ehhhhh. A lot easier to unga bunga your way through, especially if there are AoE effects on your side? Absolutely. This is going to come across as snide but this is such a bizarre take from my experience. Every one of the L+2 (or more) "single big hitter" fights my party has come up against has devolved into kiting strategies, and very understandably too. On the other hand the dynamic multi-foe encounters I've made have been...very dynamic!
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Apr 8, 2024 22:11
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It may depend on the character levels at play, too. I've been doing some drop-in play on Ronald the Rules Lawyer's discord server and boy, as a high level Witch anything that does not get keyed for incapacitation against me is a non threat to an absurd degree. Spells like Undermine Reality (8th rank) just dominate, especially when I can force misfortune effects on foes. "Your Strikes do half damage, you can't critically succeed at skill checks, and everyone gets +1 DoS against your effects" is a monstrous effect when the crit failure adds "forever" to the end of that.
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Apr 8, 2024 22:23
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In my limited experience pl+2 fights are pretty annoying and I would much rather fight multiple enemies close to the pcs level.
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Apr 9, 2024 01:01
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Yeah our DM likes to do +2 and +3 fights and not being able to connect with anything but your first attack sure is demoralising.
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Apr 9, 2024 02:52
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We just had the most bizarre boss fight in Kingmaker, though half of it was RNG luck. We couldn't get half of our debuffs to land on the boss, but in return we literally did more damage to ourselves than the enemies did. Our monk grabbed the boss and jumped out a window to piledrive her into the ground, and the fall damage was the most damage anyone took. It was a comedy of errors, emphasis on the comedy.
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Apr 9, 2024 04:24
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Meanwhile in my kingmaker campaign last night my rogue took a crit from a scythe tree that dropped me from full to dying and would have done the exact same thing to anyone else in the party, even the fighter. Glad we didn't get ambushed by it or the fight would have gone far worse. 
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Apr 9, 2024 04:27
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Cassa posted:Yeah our DM likes to do +2 and +3 fights and not being able to connect with anything but your first attack sure is demoralising. try things other than just attack, its a thing the system is built around!
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Apr 9, 2024 07:35
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It's pretty cool like that, hey.
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Apr 9, 2024 08:12
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sugar free jazz posted:try things other than just attack, its a thing the system is built around! The problem is all the trips and demoralizes will probably not work too, nor will the Recall Knowledge, nor will pretty much any particular thing. They WILL eventually succeed in volume just by flipping that coin a bunch but it feels pretty bad. It's a bad feeling to open your round with a trip to try to get the boss debuffed for the rest of the party and fail, and so you have to make your next trip with a MAP and a target number so high that it's just not going to work a lot. I spent a lot of time watching my players be crestfallen about totally wasted rounds...but hey, it's balanced! Like, I really do like that the math in this system works but there's no getting around that for a monster with 3 actions vs. 4 guys with 12 combined actions, a lot of the 4 guys actions are going to have to become less effective in order to balance things out. And that feels bad a lot of the time.
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Apr 9, 2024 17:07
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The problem is all the trips and demoralizes will probably not work too, nor will the Recall Knowledge, nor will pretty much any particular thing. They WILL eventually succeed in volume just by flipping that coin a bunch but it feels pretty bad. It's a bad feeling to open your round with a trip to try to get the boss debuffed for the rest of the party and fail, and so you have to make your next trip with a MAP and a target number so high that it's just not going to work a lot. I spent a lot of time watching my players be crestfallen about totally wasted rounds...but hey, it's balanced! The worst is when you heropoint and roll into a 1.
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Apr 9, 2024 17:29
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It feels bad to fail but succeeding all the time would be boring IMO and a pretty different game. The gambling on dice rolls is where a bunch of big moments the people remember come from, like hitting a boss against long odds or making a really good diplomacy check.
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Apr 9, 2024 17:32
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The problem is all the trips and demoralizes will probably not work too, nor will the Recall Knowledge, nor will pretty much any particular thing. They WILL eventually succeed in volume just by flipping that coin a bunch but it feels pretty bad. It's a bad feeling to open your round with a trip to try to get the boss debuffed for the rest of the party and fail, and so you have to make your next trip with a MAP and a target number so high that it's just not going to work a lot. I spent a lot of time watching my players be crestfallen about totally wasted rounds...but hey, it's balanced! if you’re just spamming trips then you’re making a mistake! sometimes the thing you do is less effective, sometimes you fight something stronger than you, these things are not bad things. using tactics, having a wide breadth of things you can do, working as a team to become more effective, are all good things. you should be glad that combat is dynamic and you can’t always rely on doing the same thing over and over Good ac and reflex? Try a fort save. That seems high? Will save is going to be easy to hit. you can try again on recall. you will actually probably hit after a couple attempts with your third action unless it’s a truly unique monster (it probably isn’t!)
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Apr 9, 2024 17:33
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Kitfox88 posted:The worst is when you heropoint and roll into a 1. My game had a player re-roll with halfling luck after failing a save against a gorgon's breath weapon, which would have petrified him for a minute, with a save every turn. Of course, his re-roll was a crit failure, and he became petrified permanently. I told him that, since he still had a hero point, I'd let him roll it at the end of his next turn and try to break out of the stone one last time, and thankfully he succeeded. But ever since then, when the party fails a roll on a particularly scary effect, they are usually reluctant to roll a hero point lest they suffer a critical failure instead. Side note: it's nuts that a gorgon has an area of effect attack that can take multiple players out of the fight for a round or more, on just a regular failure
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Apr 9, 2024 17:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The problem is all the trips and demoralizes will probably not work too, nor will the Recall Knowledge, nor will pretty much any particular thing. They WILL eventually succeed in volume just by flipping that coin a bunch but it feels pretty bad. It's a bad feeling to open your round with a trip to try to get the boss debuffed for the rest of the party and fail, and so you have to make your next trip with a MAP and a target number so high that it's just not going to work a lot. I spent a lot of time watching my players be crestfallen about totally wasted rounds...but hey, it's balanced! ABBM always be bon motting
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Apr 9, 2024 18:03
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This is why you shouldn't always be fighting PL+2, or PL, or PL-3. You need a mix. I feel dumb for saying it, but this is a weird conversation.
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Apr 9, 2024 18:07
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