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Re: Abomination Vaults, a bunch of people I lost to the maw of 5E are fleeing and want to run Pathfinder 2E. They're trying to get me back to the table with them and I'm thinking about it. While 4E had some faults, the encounter designs of later products got pretty cool and the players would be engaged in real showstoppers where, for instance, fire gouts would spew out of the walls at certain initiative values while little rear end in a top hat minions tried to push players into their path and the fire-immune boss guy was standing in the flames, wacking people and laughing it up. Does Abominiation Vault have this kind of stuff? I haven't actually played P2E - just scanned the core rulebook, and it looks pretty good and (at a glance) has decently tight math and good tactical options, but encounter design is where the rubber meets the road. How do they do? Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 19:44
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Funzo posted:Is there a good tutorial on learning Foundry, and using Pathfinder with it in particular? Youtube videos people would recommend maybe? Here's a decent primer (changed out the original video I had here). It's 5e but looks pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aHlApa1nUA That will get a basic world. You should look for individual videos for the other stuff. Big things to master: Creating Actors, Creating a Scene. That gets you a pretty good way there. The thing to understand about Foundry is it's very very flexible, but that comes at a price of configuration. Don't get intimidated, I promise you it's not too bad. The biggest thing beyond the basics is understanding that a big part of the power of Foundry comes from the Modules. They can do a LOT of stuff and after you get the basics of creating game worlds, scenes, and getting the permissions and stuff sorted out, you'll want to look into Modules. Make a garbage world first and just test stuff out. Run a fake combat, try to make a combat space beyond a square room. Open two web browser windows and connect to the server as a player so you can see what the player would see and test the different wall types. That kind of thing. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 00:30
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Harold Fjord posted:I've never done it but it should be fine. I think you would just give one account logged in as player all of the characters Yes this is exactly how it would work. The TV would be connected to the "player client" that would be a single login that controlled all PC Actors. The DM client would be your laptop that was logged in as Gamemaster and did all the other stuff. Only negative I can think of is that you would still be rolling virtual dice, even though you were in person.
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Jan 20, 2023 03:08
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The thing I don't like about the Pathfinder 2 PDF Import is that it's heavily scripted for specific PDFs. I really wish they had a general scripting way to give people your adventure for Foundry. I'm putzing around with my own 3rd party adventure and I would love to just stick it in some PDF in a certain way and let the importer do the heavy lifting.
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Jan 24, 2023 00:48
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What is the opinion of allowing a first level Gnome Ranger to use their Ancestry Feat to get Animal Companion (Ranger) rather than a Familiar (Animal Accomplice)? I feel it's a bit too powerful because they used their Class Feat for Crossbow Ace. Although they took a Heavy Crossbow so Reload 2 + choose to command the animal or shoot is gonna suck. I don't know. What do you guys think? (I'm asking because a player did not understand the difference between a Familiar and an Animal Companion, which is honestly totally understandable). Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 22:16
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Just checked her character sheet and she didn't max her Dex (got it to 16) because she put a boost toward Charisma, which she has no trained skills in. I feel fairly comfortable granting this player a little extra raw power. (I am also encouraging her to fix this)
Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 02:46
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So my second player has made a 14 CHA Bard. When I tried to talk him out of this he told me that Pathfinder 2e has "fake options" if he can't make a 14 CHA bard, and that it was possible to make an effective INT based Fighter in D&D 3.5E (he saw this in a movie). We're adults so I was able to reach an agreement/understanding, but it's going to be tough. The party is a Swashbuckler (built pretty well), a Crossbow Ranger with 16 Dex, a Wizard (also built "correctly" and by that I mean didn't sabotage his key ability) and the aforementoned 14 CHA Bard. Wish me luck. This feels like it's going to flop bad and they're going to blame the system.
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Feb 18, 2023 18:08
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Lamuella posted:one idea would be to let him run with the character as-is but offer to let him re-spec when he reaches level 2. To avoid this sounding like "this is going to suck because you suck", possibly make the offer to everyone. That's great advice and exactly what I had already done, but I'm glad to hear the idea reinforced. It's true though. Dorkness Rising, and literally in the Wiki they say "they took 'artistic licensing' with feats and abilities and class features". Which of course means it was bullshit, but he remembered it and was like "D&D3.5 is a good system! It lets you be the smart fighter!" Pernicious propaganda imo. 
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Feb 18, 2023 18:19
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Cyouni posted:What's he actually getting from putting the two stat boosts elsewhere, anyways? Is there something he needs that bad that he can't take a 16? Or is he just trying to be a 14 Cha bard because the movie told him so? I have no idea. I couldn't follow his logic. Something something wanting to help the party and be versatile. I honestly think he should just play a Chirurgeon Alchemist, I think he would have a lot more fun with it. It's still non-optimal but at least it's a workable concept.
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Feb 18, 2023 20:41
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KPC_Mammon posted:I've played with these people and it sucks. Luckily I've mostly cut them out of my life because it turns out their shittiness isn't just limited to gaming. No, but they're a big time grog who ran a 2nd edition game for years. This guy is a good guy and a long term friend and I am very surprised at this behavior. However, he seems to have fully accepted the consequences and has acknowledged that he's "doing it wrong" in some sort of attempt to explore the system. My take is that he somehow thinks he's smarter than PF2E or thinks that he's going to have equivalent power in other areas; PF2E ain't that game IMO. I do not actually believe that he knows that he's making a bad, ineffective character and I wasn't able to convince him because of his many ossified thinking traps about RPGs. He's just gonna have to learn the hard way and that's part of both life and elfgames. A nice thing is another player in email looked it over and IM'd him and said "hey man you probably shouldn't do this" without any prompting from me and another person I spoke to was like "why is he doing something the game explicitly doesn't want you to do?" and agrees that if you can control your ability scores, that's the game saying "hey man please make yourself right or you're gonna have a bad time". He compared it to insisting on melee fighting as a wizard. That's going to be helpful when it becomes obvious he's hurt himself. The thing is, I took a bit of time today and built 3 other characters who do "heal the party and have some depth but also can kill stuff" and it's not very hard, I'm actually pretty impressed by the system, the only thing you can't do of course is just set your key attribute to be dogshit. It's ruinous. In doing this exercise I found that I really actually liked Alchemist a lot despite the perception they are a weaker character class. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 22:28
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That's not what he's doing. He wants to cast spells and those use his CHA. He literally made a Bard that's pretty bad at Bard'ing "My player made a Monk that's lousy at being a Monk and gets his rear end beat in a game where we're guaranteed to get in fights that, if we lose, have bad consequences" is not the same as "don't give this guy money. He gives it away"
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Feb 18, 2023 23:49
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So another thing I did is made around 9 different characters of all kinds of types and gave them 3 sentence back stories and while they are not CharOps masterpieces they are not awful. I had fun making them too. I am just telling the players that if they are not happy at any point they can go grab one of those PCs and play them for the rest of the session and then either keep playing them or respec or remake their character.
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Feb 18, 2023 23:55
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Guy is not an idiot. He just has a very strong ideology about this. Like most people it's cobbled together from many sources and lacks internal consistency. Anyway, he just texted me and I guess the wizard player (mutual friend) called him up and said "forget about YOU dying from this nonsense. I'm a 1st level Wizard, I will be the one dying!" so now he's "rethinking his choices". I am sure it will work out fine.
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Feb 19, 2023 00:30
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Froghammer posted:Honestly, out of all of the classes to try to go against the grain on, Bard isn't the worst idea? Inspire Courage is Charisma agnostic without Lingering Performance. Multiclass into something martial-oriented, mostly cast spells that don't rely on Charisma *narrator voice* He wanted to mostly cast spells that relied on Charisma.
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Feb 19, 2023 01:02
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Got a text last night and the 14 CHA Bard is now 18 CHA. "I always play intelligent characters" was the real reason btw. That's why all the blah-blah about character motivation didn't make any sense. This guy thinks he has to be a Big Brain in every setting. I'm a little disappointed in him because all his big "explore the system" crap was just cover for him playing a high INT bard (exactly what he plays in 5e) but whatever. At least he's not playing a garbage pile. Regarding ability scores, in earlier editions of D&D they absolute were Your Genetic Potential but nowadays you should look at them as a "how your character spends their time" meter. A character can be very intelligent but if they don't spend their time being a nerd then they have a low INT stat because if you just randomly ask them a question about lore of who the 10th King of Aquilona is they don't know. So you can be a cunning person or even a smart person but one that had no access to all that stuff, if you like. Just like a nice friendly person who everybody likes but who can't consistently get other people to do what they want is....perfectly normal with a 10 CHA. For an actual example of this Robert E Howard's Conan is a very clever and cunning guy, but he doesn't know anything academic and doesn't care. He has low charisma (until he's king) because he doesn't bother to convince anyone, either through threats or kindness. He just says "I'll loving kill you if you do that" and then they usually do it and...well...you know. quote:"Surely he sees us," muttered Conan. "Why does he not charge us? He could break this window with ease." Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 19:47
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gurragadon posted:Well, I mean if 10 is "average" intelligence then 18 intelligence would be somebody with superior intelligence, right? To me the stats do represent your baseline potential in stuff. This is true when it's randomly rolled or assign and fixed in stone. Potential doesn't change. When you are choosing how you are boosting your stats every so often the game has mechanically said "this is what you're investing your time in." Now rightly you're saying "well doesn't that overlap with skills a whole lot" and the answer is yes, they've basically created nothing more than another level to the skill system. That's why ability scores are stupid. They're stupid if they're your "genetic potential" because that can't be modelled by 6 variables and is a stupid fool's errand, and they're stupid when they're "what your character is doing" because yeah we have a skill system, but oh well. We're stuck with Big Daddy D&D's shadow all over everything. Edit: I'm not going to get engaged on the argument of the nature of intelligence, because a) it's stupid to model it as one number, and b) if you've ever been traveling to a developing country, there are TONS of people you'll meet all the time who have no "the kinds of things that count as INT knowledge" because they have no access to it, but are nonetheless perfectly smart and capable people who can learn quickly and process information just fine. Predictably, we're starting to get the nerd phrenologists in this thread and I'm simply not having this conversation with you. Absolutely 100% not interested in dialoguing with the "you can't be a smart character unless you have a high INT stat" crowd. A medium-to-low INT can mean you're a regular guy who just doesn't care about knowledge, a dullard who works really hard to know what they do know, or a smart guy who is too busy working on their fighting techniques and running their local floral guild to pay attention to magical knowledge and book learnin'. These are all perfectly viable concepts. Otherwise you get nerd brain rot where you're like "nobody likes me because I didn't take high CHA" come oooooooon Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 20:38
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gurragadon posted:I don't really appreciate being called a phrenologist because I'm asking questions about the intelligence stat in a TTRPG game. I never said people in a developing country couldn't have a high intelligence. Thats just stupid. A hypothetical wizard from a developing country would have a high base potential of intelligence (18) and maybe a low skill in something they wouldn't have training in by virtue of there background. Wizards get trained by Arcana in default so this isn't possible. Pathfinder has a "key" stat system and just by picking a class you get a boost in that stat and you get to pick your boosts on some of them. How does that tie into your "potential" argument? It doesn't, because you're taking a lovely and fundamentally flawed framework from a 50 year old game and trying to bolt it on a very modern system that was forced to keep it around (mostly in name only) as a salve to grog dorks. Like, do you know what a smart orc with "High Intelligence" who doesn't want to get buff and who has no access to formal training is called? A Druid. That's what they could do so that's what they did.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:58
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gurragadon posted:Also, that's a lovely druid because they are wisdom casters. LOL yes I know, the point was that they got Wise instead of getting Intelligent. They're just a brainy sort that was going to pursue some sort of knowledge-based thing no matter what and that's what shapes them. Just a reminder that Medicine is a Wisdom based skill, so this guy is "smarter" than many doctors (see how stupid this is? This is what happens with Ability Scores as character definitions! They suck!)
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Feb 19, 2023 21:18
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Facebook Aunt posted:It's good he pumped his key stat. I think this keep getting missed (and that's understandable) but he wants to cast spells a lot. As a Bard, his Charisma sets all the spell DCs and effects, not his INT. So, he was going to be a genuinely low end spellcaster who also could make an ok (16 DEX) shortbow attack. It was a bad character.
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Feb 19, 2023 21:39
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gurragadon posted:Edit again: Actually, Megaman I've been rereading the conversation and I have to say that my arguments haven't been logical. By my own arguments Conan could have a high intelligence score that just wasn't being used and yet I said he couldn't. It's fine. Glad to hear it. I used to think exactly how you were but as I got older and met "intelligent" people who were total doofuses, noticed the nonsensical, limiting and artificial "book learning vs real experience" WIS vs INT divide, and got boned over at tables by Attribute Fundie DMs I really turned on them. Sorry if I seemed overly hostile.
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Feb 19, 2023 22:29
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sugar free jazz posted:no one gets confused by what "Wisdom" does. I do, because the analogies break down completely at high levels. Let's take your tomato example. High INT is "knowing that the tomato is actually a berry, it's scientific name is solanum lycopersicum, it's a distant relative of the nightshade" and high Wisdom is..."don't put them in your fruit salad, still". Like, even as a kid I noticed every "Wisdom example" was some patently obvious thing, they never gave an example of the difference between using high WIS or high INT. It's always been the case that D&D treated "synthesis of knowledge" as INT. Sherlock Holmes, despite having absolutely off-the-charts perception and intuition, was always coded as a high INT guy. The Investigator is a high INT guy who doesn't need WIS. It's just this weird dumping area for Clerics and Druids, an ability score that, once it gets high enough, nobody knows what it means other than "you have a high perception" and "you're on favorable terms with your Diety".
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Feb 20, 2023 17:41
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Trip report for first session of Pathfinder Beginner Box: If you've been keeping up with this I had a Swashbuckler, Wizard, Crossbow Gnome Ranger (made by a player who just could not grasp the system) and a 14 CHA Bard (made by a player that "always plays Intelligent characters" and so undermined his key ability to have a high INT). The 14 CHA Bard cracked. The Wizard player - who is a mutual friend - called him up and talked to him. I guess he recommended a couple of videos of combat. The Bard player watched the videos, realized he'd been processing the entire game through a crummy 5E lense, got his act together, and came back with an 18 CHA 16 DEX Bard wielding a whip, and was finally ready to Embrace The System. The session started with a brief meet and greet between the characters and then they dropped off a package at Morbilint's Odd Books. I decided to make Morbilint a slightly camp Regis Philbin (is that redundant?) and it hit huge. I want to give a shout out to the poster who did the "nice armor, for a clown to wear, at the circus, idiot" because I used it (stole it) as a "Morbilint's attempts a Swashbuckler Bon Mot" moment and it brought the house down. I literally had to stop them from continuing to interact with him because all they wanted to do was bounce off him and I am trying to keep something in the tank for later sessions. Once they got down to the basement, combat started and the Crossbow Ranger said "I hate this. This clearly isn't working how I thought". I had made three other Gnome Rangers as a backup so she just grabbed the Flurry one and next round was like "I like this!" as her owl pecked at a rat's eyes. The Bard used Telekinetic Strike to hit a giant rat with a loose fish from one of the barrels. They had a fine old time. Couple of bad runs of rolls from the Swashbuckler which wasn't great, but hey that's d20. So the overall vibe was extremely positive. My only real complaints with Pathfinder 2e are the ability scores and the vertical cliff of character creation. After that, a little playtime seems adequate to understand the system - and it's a good system!
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Feb 21, 2023 18:26
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Got Treasure Vault and just LOL at how awesome Mutagen Alchemists are conceptually. They basically turn the entire party into their experiments, handing out collars that auto-inject Mutagen (and cause one point of damage) during initiative roles. I mean sure they're not as good as a straight martial character in combat but straight martial character can't give you a breath mint that cures the sickened condition when you bite it, can they? Can they have their rat with human hands run over to your unconscious body and put a potion in your mouth? Didn't think so. Skunk Bombs are also CRAZY support weapons, just insane. Sadly as a Mutagen Alchemist you need to be hopped up on Bestial Mutagen Goofballs and taking Wrestler so you can grab guys, bite them, and throw them into your spellcaster's AOE or piledrive them into the ground, so you won't be using those. But still. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Feb 22, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 20:51
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Don't be a half-orc Mutagenic Alchemist who talks like Macho Man when he's under the influence of Bestial Mutagen. That's my concept.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:35
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Witch is pretty Shamany too. Curses side, anyway. Pure caster with a familiar.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:42
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The new Adventure Path has an archetype dedication that lets your familiar make attacks, but reddit says it's pretty unbalanced in the player's favor and will probably get errata'd.
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Feb 23, 2023 19:55
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Look over at the Reddit there seems to be a fair amount of boo-hoo that casters had to give up single target damage to be the AOE and Utility guys.
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Feb 24, 2023 22:34
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sugar free jazz posted:casters never really had great single target damage and their most important spells were always utility spells, which were in fact hit harder than everything else in pf2 so ??????? *looks at you in Disintegrate*
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Feb 24, 2023 23:52
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KPC_Mammon posted:Why would you ever cast disintegrate when you could cast a save or die instead? 5d6 on a save was trash in 1e. Uh...that's not what I remember. It's a save-or-die in AD&D, isn't it? Literally make the save or be disintegrated. I mean I'm feeling a bit off balance here, I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Magic Users had very good single target stuff in 1e and 2e. That's not accepted wisdom now?
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Feb 25, 2023 00:13
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Jen X posted:1e in this context is Pathfinder 1e (aka D&D 3.5e), friend Right, right, I see. Apologies for the crossed wires. When some one says "casters" my brain space goes through all editions of D&D, of which I consider Pathfinder 1e to be 3.55. And I don't know much about Pathfinder 1e's minutia, since I barely played it.
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Feb 25, 2023 01:01
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Has anyone used anything new from Treasure Vault? Opinions? I love the Bottled Monstrosities but the "maybe your GM enforces this, maybe they don't" regent requirements and the fixed DCs (which means they can only be realistically Quick Alchemy'd instead of pre-crafted) is a big barrier to them being actually useful. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 20:56
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Well, Pathfinder says you can't sell on Pathfinder Infinite if you use AI Art. That's too bad, but they're not going to be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one. Eventually they'll capitulate.
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Mar 2, 2023 01:06
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:Why would they capitulate? They're full of artists. Because the entire 3rd party industry is going to move toward AI art. We're basically at the Atari level - less than 5 year old - with it and it's already very powerful and getting better everyday. A special effects house just trained an AI to make their live action film footage into Vampire Hunter D anime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljBSmQdL_Ow And for a five dollar subscription they'll teach you how to do it too. Uh oh. What do you think this is going to look like in five more years? I've actually looked into creating and publishing my own adventure and by far the most expensive part is the art, by a gigantic factor. I could do everything else - layout, editing, writing, print on demand - using open source software and good old elbow grease but I couldn't do art, and it's expensive. But now I absolutely could, and with a couple of hours of tutorials I was easily making perfectly acceptable art. It wasn't going to win me any awards, it wasn't going to blow me away like when I first saw Brom's Dark Sun covers, but it was acceptable. (and if the adventure had done well, I was going to pay to have almost all of it replaced with real art from some very talented folks online. I actually did want real human art done to my spec, but I wanted to cover my costs first). Anyway, this is hot stuff, everyone I've shown it to loves it. All my new players have AI-generated character pics and they were happy about it. And it's out there now. Even if they pass laws it won't matter a bit; your art will get scraped, fed into the model, and used to generate stuff through backchannels. Unless you don't post it on the 'Net - in which case, good luck with that business model. There's absolutely going to be a service within a decade that allows you to credit AI art to a human being, to evade this kind of rule. Boba Pearl posted:No-one can tell the difference, so it's really a moot point. It's true, there's a couple of AI Detectors online and I've uploaded some of my better images to them, they don't get caught. It's only going to get better.
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Mar 2, 2023 03:44
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I should say right now that I'm very sympathetic to artist that this is having an effect on, but I'm just being realistic. And I'm not hyping it. That anime vid has a lot of problems, a regular person using AI has a lot of problems, but that's only going to be eliminated. These are garbage first-generation tools and first-generation models and they're still pumping out some shocking stuff. The idea that you're just going to say "no" to this is not feasible. Zurai posted:It's a pretty big barrier to entry, and AI art pretty much obliterates the barrier. There's no stuffing that genie back in the bottle. The ballpark price of me getting art on 2/3rds of the pages of my 48 page adventure - not including cover, and not including maps - was 3k, and asking around that was a pretty good deal. This was going to be a combination of full color monster art for the Bestiary in the back, some B&W line drawings of props and locations for inserts, five full color npc portrait busts, and 3 full-color half-page spreads for setpiece scenes. My INITIAL order, where I really went whole hog and had art on every page (and had no idea how much stuff cost), and more of it in color, was over 5k. Edit: We're already getting a "you draw a stick figure in the pose you want and the AI turns it into a picture" stuff, this is only going to evolve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFZgPyCJflE And right now it takes people weeks of knowledge and tools to do stuff like in this video, but that won't last: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jcwtAFXtq0 Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 04:11
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Harold Fjord posted:Got it. Okay I see accessibility tool this makes sense. This is great. Your GM is foolish. Lamuella posted:So is the Treasure Vault worth getting? I'm 2 sessions into GMing a Pathfinder campaign for the first time and thus high on the idea of buying all the books. My guys are about to visit a large city, so so having options for them for shopping etc would be good, on the other hand I don't want to lay down significant cash if the items etc in the book are only so-so. It's absolutely worth it, yeah, although you might want to just go with the PDF for now. It's got some errata. If you're an Alchemist I can't imagine not having it, you get radioactive bombs. Radioactive bombs!!!! Little bottles of monsters that come alive and goof off for a round. It's great!
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Mar 2, 2023 17:42
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Now that's good gamin'!
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Mar 7, 2023 21:29
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I've been giving my crafting PCs a free formula every level up, subject to my approval. It's really stupid that crafting forces either me, the DM, to drop formulas, or for the players to take an inventor feat (which imposes a money tax to invent). The obsession with making crafting players pay twice, once for the formula and once for the item, is bizarre. So now they at least get some default stuff that they can make if they want, with all the normal costs and such.
Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 20:39
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Swashbucklers are pretty bad at low levels IMO. It's "do a bunch of complicated poo poo and hang your rear end out there to be about as good as a fighter, almost". Aid is also hosed up at lower levels, with the flat DC 20 that becomes trivial at higher levels. Really wish I knew what they were thinking with that one.
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Mar 28, 2023 16:24
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Mister Olympus posted:that makes sense, i'm considering it from the opposite viewpoint where you can't take a base class and go totally orthogonal to that class's intended behavior with a clever build--that sort of thing is what defines 3.x to me, and pf2 has much stronger role protection than that It's better to have a bunch of classes that do things the players absolutely want them to do but are constrained for balance, as opposed to letting people break poo poo over their knee for gimmicks.
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Apr 12, 2023 22:23
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Yeah. PF2e is really tight and if the only experience you have is the sloppy jalopy of 5e then don't rely on snap judgements. Assume there is a design principle behind it beyond "that's how we always did it" and check with the experts.
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Apr 19, 2023 21:18
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