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Kvantum posted:Paizo won't, though. And it's breaking away from 30+ years of my own gaming history from AD&D 1e through to Pathfinder 2e. The eight schools of magic, chromatic and metallic dragons, alignment. They're gone now. Chromatic and metallic dragons are a terrible concept. You can tell the good dragons from the bad dragons because the good ones are shiny? Really? Did anyone genuinely think that was an interesting idea?
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May 27, 2023 15:07
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Kvantum posted:WotC had started to get away from that as far back as Eberron, and Pathfinder had Hermea's ruler Mengkare from the start. I mean “20+ year old” means “since before D&D 3.5 came out,” so you’ve had to deal with bigger changes than this. Nobody’s making you change dragon-related lore in your home game (well, your players might, I guess, but is that the issue here?). At worst, you’ll need to tweak/homebrew some things if you want to use some future dragon-related content in your home game.
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May 27, 2023 16:25
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YggdrasilTM posted:D&D 3.0 came out in 2000 and the differences between 3.0 and 3.5 are not in lore stuff. There wasn't a big retcon in 2003, no, but there were new settings (with somewhat different takes on, e.g., dragons) introduced during every edition of D&D, including 3.5, not to mention the differences between those settings and Golarion. Did Golarion even exist prior to 2008? I don't see why retcons regarding dragons in Golarion should matter for campaigns not set in Golarion.
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May 27, 2023 18:54
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Kvantum posted:I'm definitely in the camp opposed to it, or at least feeling that Paizo seems to be too actively enthusiastic about it. Cheliax eliminating slavery altogether in favor of indentured servitude or sharecropping? It's just coming off as almost silly. The country whose monarchy is only propped up in power through literal contracts with Hell suddenly looks at slavery and says "oh, well that's just too far!"? Come on. I think Paizo might be trying to get away from the uncomfortable implications of things like most Hellknights (including prominent members of the Order of the Chain) being Lawful Neutral. I think a lot of the stuff along those lines was from the 1e era, but still. Edit: Though yeah, you could also understand it in-universe as a sort of strategic retreat by Cheliax. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 21:49
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Lamuella posted:I only have moderate experience of Paizo lore (the Pathfinder game I'm in is in a homebrew setting, and one of the two pathfinder podcasts I listen to is in another homebrew setting) but my experience of their lore is that they do a better job than most parts of d&d other than Eberron of creating a living world where "this is the rule in the game setting" is followed by "and this is the effect on the world". And vice versa. I think there's been an improvement in the world-building over time. When I look a setting element up on the wiki, I often find myself thinking "that's stupid, but the sources are all from a decade ago and I'm not sure it makes sense to consider it still fully canon."
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May 27, 2023 23:05
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That reminds me: I've always found the way green and brass dragons break the symmetry between chromatic and metallic dragons weird. I guess it's a manifestation of D&D's occasional bizarre insistence that poison is automatically evil.
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May 27, 2023 23:20
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Divination and Illusion have pretty clear identities, but the others have always suffered from being a bit fuzzy. I saw a discussion of this on the Paizo forums that used Barkskin as an example. Does “the target’s skin becomes covered in bark” mean it’s creating bark (Conjuration) or turning your outer layer of skin to bark (Transmutation)? Or should we consider it Evocation now that there’s an Elemental Plane of Wood? Or is it manipulating life, and thus Necromancy? Actually it’s classified as Abjuration, because it’s defensive. It makes more sense for there to be multiple ways of characterizing spells instead of each spell fitting into exactly one “true” category. Fortunately we already have the groundwork for this approach due to the trait system. For example, you could make the Captivator Archetype work under the Remastered rules by replacing “from the Enchantment or Illusion schools” with “with the Mental trait.” Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 01:09
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Jen X posted:The problem is that they aren’t extraneous because there’s a lot of archetypes, abilities, and items that tie into the school trait system. Captivator, hallowed necromancer, oatia skysage, runescarred, and runelord are the ones I remember for archetypes, and the magus and I think psychic have feats which care about spell schools used. As I said, the Mental trait means Captivator can still work with minimal changes. Some of the others will probably need specific spell lists to replace the schools, though.
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May 29, 2023 01:07
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I feel like the rarity system is used for several different things, in a rather confusing way. In some cases (e.g., focus spells) "uncommon" is just a way of expressing a prerequisite. In other cases it's more a way of letting your DM veto something if it doesn't make sense (in either setting or power level terms) in the campaign. Thirdly, there's some things that are probably tagged as uncommon or rare for setting reasons. Raise Dead, for example, is uncommon but unrestricted in Organized Play, which struck me as a way of saying, "yes, PCs can come back from the dead, but it's not actually something that happens all the time in-universe." Finally, there's some ancestries that basically seem to be designated uncommon or rare as a "cosmetic reward" thing in an Organized Play context.
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Jun 1, 2023 23:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:A lot of information gathering stuff is Uncommon at minimum because it cuts off entire adventure premises from your DM, which sucks rear end. Oh yeah. Detect Alignment, Detect Poison, Locate, Mind Reading, Detect Creator, Detect Scrying, Discern Lies, Forgotten Lines, Ghostly Tragedy, Read Omens, Web of Influence, Mind Probe, Telepathic Bond, Tongues, Catch Your Name, Scrying, Discern Location...and that's just the Divination spells!
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Jun 1, 2023 23:39
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I wonder if the Awakened Animal doctor was a deliberate One Piece reference.
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Jun 2, 2023 21:28
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I'm far from an expert on Pathfinder lore stuff, but didn't Sorshen do things that were really, really bad? Like, "sexual slavery on a massive scale" bad? Should she really have been "redeemed"? 
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Jun 5, 2023 20:53
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Andrast posted:just wait until you hear about the things nocticula did The lore wiki page on Nocticula is pretty vague about what specific bad things she did; her career as a demon lord seems to have consisted mostly of killing other demon lords. Whereas Sorshen's "lustfulness" is specifically tied to her mastery of mind control magic, and this is central to the concept of Thassilonian Rune Magic; even if you ignore all more specific 1e lore, that's unavoidably icky.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:19
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Scrap Dragon posted:Does anyone have a good cheat sheet for universal actions available to all players like Demoralize, Raise a Shield, etc;? https://2e.aonprd.com/GMScreen.aspx See Basic Actions, Specialty Basic Actions, and Skill Actions. Edit: Or see this: https://preview.redd.it/cx3jvnaohaka1.png?width=2200&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=b065876678a6177b0d5f394913b9f2b0b3bae1cc
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Jun 14, 2023 02:10
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TulliusCicero posted:Is Vigilante still a possible class in 2E? I always wanted to play one in 1E because Medieval Batman/ Dr. Strange is a badass concept. It's an Archetype now rather than a class, which makes more sense. The dual-identity stuff isn't enough for a class, and the superhero stuff was too much for one class. Now you can be an Investigator/Vigilante or Inventor/Vigilante if you want to be Batman, a Wizard/Vigilante or Sorcerer/Vigilante if you want to be Dr. Strange, a Barbarian/Vigilante if you want to be the Hulk, a Witch/Vigilante if you want to be a magical girl, etc. Edit: Come to think of it, basically all the well-known Marvel superheroes are playable in Pathfinder 2e. Captain America is a Fighter or Champion, Iron Man is an Armor Innovation Inventor, Black Widow is a Rogue or Gunslinger, Wolverine is an Animal Instinct Barbarian... Edit 2: The Anadi ancestry even lets you be Spider-Man, sort-of. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 01:47
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The problem with the Witch is that it's basically a worse version of a different casting class, because it doesn't get much in the way of class features aside from generic prepared spellcasting. This is most obvious when you compare an arcane Witch to a Wizard; you're effectively locked into the Improved Familiar Attunement Arcane Thesis, you lose the extra spell slot per level from your school, and you get Phase Familiar instead of a spell school focus spell. Are Discern Secrets and an extra starting skill really worth all that? With a primal or divine Witch the comparison is less direct, but you're still clearly worse than a Cleric or Druid. In particular, you still have to learn spells individually like a Wizard instead of knowing all the common divine or primal spells automatically, and Intelligence is less useful than Wisdom in PF2. If you're a occult Witch...well, the Bard gets better class-specific cantrips than you, more HP, better (though still not very good) weapons and armor, and doesn't have to predict which spells he'll need in advance. He normally has to learn heightened versions of spells separately, but this is partially mitigated by signature spells.
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Jul 13, 2023 17:28
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They seem to be moving towards more emphasis on familiars in the Remaster, though some people on the Paizo forums don't like that very much and feel they should make hexes more powerful instead.
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Jul 13, 2023 18:24
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Mirage posted:A spell that could give a completely accurate count of items in a pile would be tremendously useful to merchants. Also on rare occasions for adventurers searching for a hidden void under a pile of rocks. The obvious game-breaking (maybe) strategy is "get NPCs to pay you to use it." As you say, it would be very useful to merchants, and also for military logistics, for example. Though assuming the buffed version of Approximate would still be a cantrip on all four spell lists, it would probably be common enough in-universe that the market price for it wouldn't be that high. So really, it would probably be fine.
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Jul 18, 2023 15:25
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A Meatslab posted:Agreed! Occult is basically vibes-based magic, yeah. Having the Psychic and the Bard use the same list is superficially a bit odd (going against the traditional "psionics is its own thing" approach), but all the mind-related stuff makes sense for both. Things like Telekinetic Projectile do feel strange for a Bard, though.
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Jul 19, 2023 00:33
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Piell posted:Depends on the type of bard, throwing a brick is definitely punk and thus perfectly in line with a bard The issue is that things like Telekinetic Projectile and Object Reading clearly evoke specific tropes associated with "psychic powers" rather than "magic." (Object Reading would feel less "psionic" and more "bardic" if it involved listening to the object instead of touching it, for example.) Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 01:01
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Random Golarion lore thought: doesn't the connection between Osirion and Egypt have an element of "one-shot revisionism" to it? It just calls attention to how a bunch of other countries on Golarion resemble Earth cultures with no explanation. Or are we supposed to assume that the Ulfen culture was influenced by the Norse gods, and the reason they don't worship them anymore is that the Norse gods all died during Ragnarok 1000 years ago?
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Jul 19, 2023 01:27
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LukasR23 posted:Reign of winter is incredible. I’m currently running it for a 2e group (converting on the fly) and it’s been a blast for all involved. They’re just about to kick off book 3, but I’ve been seeding in some of the Russian aspects as they go and having Rasputin take a slightly more active role. She isn't really a Romanov.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:01
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One thing that's always irritated me is the way the Pathfinder lore wiki doesn't always take into account retcons (especially when they're implicit rather than explicit) or even the changes caused by in-universe events, and ends up treating a lot of (often inane or tasteless) outdated lore as canon. A good example of what I mean is the article on slavery. Half the countries listed have abolished slavery in-universe, and another quarter have been implicitly retconned as never having slavery in the first place. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 18:00
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The Cavern Elf heritage will still be around, so you can still play an underground elf if you want to. The big change here is to ongoing Darklands-related plotlines, where drow have basically been replaced by zyss serpentfolk. I'm not really a fan of this; just as drow were gradually moving away from their "always evil" baggage, they've been replaced by mustache-twirling villains (or at least they would be if snakes could grow mustaches). I think the Paizo writers are aware of this and plan to add some nuance to the serpentfolk, though. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 21:40
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Dick Burglar posted:The animal totem barbarian can't do anything close to what wild shape offers, though. You get one animal feature, not even the full animal form. Can't even swap into a different animal's feature. You can also go dragon barbarian so you can get dragon form, which is effectively a wild shape with only one option--but a very good option. This is why a Shifter class is something so many people want to see in 2E; people want the versatility of wild shape (or an even more versatile transformation power) without being a caster, and without the Druid lore/anathema baggage.
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Jul 22, 2023 15:25
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The Rogue and Wizard are getting changes to their weapon proficiencies, though it's probably more a simplification to distance them from their D&D counterparts than a substantial power-level change. The Magus won't be in the Remastered core books, but will be getting errata anyway to deal with the removal of spell schools. Druids actually are getting a notable change, though it has more to do with Rage of Elements than with the broader Remaster project: they don't have an anathema against metal armor any more. Now that the Elemental Plane of Metal is a thing, it would be weird for Druids to treat metal as unnatural and bad. Edit: There will also be a bunch of spell changes (not just to alignment-related spells). Wish (and presumably its counterparts like Primal Phenomenon) will be a ritual rather than a spell now. I'm not sure if it will be able to duplicate other rituals or if it's still limited to duplicating spells. Light and Dancing Lights have been merged into a single spell, and I think some other spells have also been merged or split. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 00:17
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A few things are still somewhat unclear. Do you still need to speak to cast spells with the concentrate trait, for example? Incidentally, I can't help but notice that while the wish ritual has the Rare trait, the Jann creature does not. A summoned Jann can't use Wanderer’s Wish, but there's no rule that a mind-controlled Jann can't use Wanderer's Wish. That seems like an easier way of achieving divinity than the Test of the Starstone. I guess the "The GM might decide a wish draws the attention of deities or other powerful creatures" language from the wish ritual could be taken as a limitation here, as could the "encourages growth and exploration" language; maybe even a mind-controlled jann can't grant a wish that leaves the recipient with nothing left to strive for.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:26
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It does say "Your GM might allow you to swap or add other spells to your curriculum if they strongly fit the theme," so it basically comes down to what you can convince your GM to allow.
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Jul 25, 2023 14:33
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The old spell version of wish still exists; it’s just called manifestation now.
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Jul 25, 2023 22:54
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Jen X posted:Oh, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the fun part of wish that's now a ritual As I said, the real way to exploit the wish ritual is to get an Jann to do it for you.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:43
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It’s Magi. Whose idea was it to use a name like that for a gish class, anyway? I guess they wanted to avoid the clunky compound names 3.5e classes tended to have (the closest 3.5 equivalent was IIRC called the Hexblade, and if they made another class like that that they would totally call it the Spellblade or Swordmage or even Warspell).
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Jul 26, 2023 15:04
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To expand on my complaint about the name, Magus sounds like a pure spellcaster (maybe a Wisdom-based arcane caster?). This is also true of Thaumaturge, I guess. That said, they are both good names even if they don’t really fit the classes - PF2 is good about not giving classes awkward names. Subclasses, not so much - Warpriest, Superstition Instinct, Sparkling Targe, Battledancer, Antipaladin, and half the Gunslinger subclasses aren’t great names.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:31
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Maybe I should have said an Int-based divine caster. That would fit the word’s original meaning (a Zoroastrian priest). Apparently the broader meaning (and the words magic, magician, etc.) derives from the belief among some Greek writers of the powers of Persian magicians; Pliny the Elder even claimed that Zoroaster invented magic.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:58
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:They literally replaced "encounter" and "daily" with "focus point" and "you can't use this again for 24 hours" and people ate it up. Incredible, but instructive. There is actually an important difference between 4e encounter powers and PF2 focus spells. If you have three encounter powers, you can use all three once each in the same fight, but you can’t use one of them three times in the same fight. The 4e version is, perhaps ironically, the more Vancian one. The other difference is that focus spells are, well, spells, meaning that “supernatural” martial classes like the Monk get them, but Fighters do not. This is also somewhat ironic, because the difference discussed above presents a clear justification for Fighters getting powers like this. It makes sense that certain maneuvers could take a lot of Fighter’s stamina, while the lore justification for the 4e version is less clear to me; maybe each encounter power is putting strain on a different muscle?
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Jul 26, 2023 20:37
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Dick Burglar posted:This level of "verisimilitude" is one of the things that 4E design intentionally wanted to get away from. Specifically, a demand for a high standard for versimilitude w/r/t how the design "justifies" why martials can do Cool poo poo, but basically a braindead, uncritical "herp derp magic can do anything" take on why casters can do Cool poo poo. In this case, the issue isn’t a Fighter doing Cool poo poo but a restriction on Fighters doing Cool poo poo. A Fighter than could do multiple Powerful Shoves per fight would be stronger, not weaker. The flip side of “magic can do anything” is “magic can have any drawback.” (Unfortunately various editions of D&D haven’t been very good at taking advantage of this to balance magic.) Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 26, 2023 |
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Jul 26, 2023 21:01
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Dick Burglar posted:D&D's magic has never had any substantial drawbacks. Unless you're playing a wild sorcerer or are under the effects of certain spells, there's not even a chance for spells to fail. D&D's magic balance is nonexistent. You’re not really disagreeing with me here; D&D in general has been bad at this. My point is that “realism” was never actually the issue; designers either not understanding or not caring about balance was.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:30
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Dick Burglar posted:I have no idea what "cursory research" you're citing that indicates that higher draw weights (which are irrespective of "short" and "long" bows, since those things are arbitrary and relative terms) are "less accurate," because that makes no sense. It can be argued that it's more difficult to be accurate with a higher draw weight bow but, again, that has nothing to do with the "size" of the bow, and also says nothing about the innate accuracy of the bow itself. The mouse cord thing? It was PF1, IIRC. Also: Andrast posted:Nobody who has made d&d games has ever thought about the realism of archery in it and you shouldn't either Dick Burglar posted:Actually the problem is that they have, and because nerds don't understand anything related to physical exertion, they've completely misunderstood it and made bad design based on their out-of-shape "intuition." Cf. the weird game designer talking about weapon chains using his computer mouse as an example of "how it should work." These posts are more compatible than they seem. I feel like RPG designers often overthink how both swords and guns (and in the specific case of Gygax, polearms) work, but not bows particularly.
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Jul 31, 2023 02:24
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Arrrthritis posted:I was thinking I'd want to be a dwarf fire + metal kineticist, really lean into being a living forge of a person. Ooh. What new classes does everyone want to see? My ideas:
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Aug 3, 2023 16:35
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sugar free jazz posted:Is one of the new classes gonna be a psionic thing? Have they finally given up that grudge? They already have a Psychic class. Though I could imagine some kind of occult counterpart to the Magus. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 4, 2023 |
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Aug 4, 2023 16:54
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Yeah, 3e-style Psionics is both very OGL and allows for a more “nova” playstyle than PF2 tends to allow. And I’m not sure what the point of including it would be, aside from making the game more like D&D and allowing “nova” play. Edit: Interesting point about reflavoring it, though. A power point system for a divine spellcaster (representing a concept more like a Favored Soul than a Psion) or an arcane spellcaster (representing a more extreme version of the logic behind the Spell Blending Arcane Thesis) would make sense if they wanted to include a point-based caster for some reason. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Aug 4, 2023 |
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Aug 4, 2023 18:25
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