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I think there was a period after the last big discussion where a bunch of posters seemed to be making a concentrated effort to be more welcoming or speak out against undeserved or uneven hostility. And I still see that happen sometimes. But generally I think everything's kind of settled back into the usual state of things. edit: That was worded badly. I think things are basically the same as they were. Some people are incredibly hostile and it doesn't really feel worth engaging. But I do think some posters have made an effort to change that. I just don't think its really stuck. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 21:52
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JOHN CENA posted:have you been following big brother this season man did that cast go south real abruptly Thankfully I was able to break at least one habit that was just making me miserable.
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Aug 27, 2022 22:05
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Gumball Gumption posted:In all honesty after all that discussion I mostly walked away having no idea what people considered aggro or not. To me the aggro posting are the posts that get really mad about wrestling and half the facts about what they're mad at are wrong. I've also been told that thinking those are aggro makes me the aggro posters. I guess that's funny since I thought you were one of the posters who seemed to be making a real effort after that discussion. Which is not to suggest you were "part of the problem" or anything but rather that I seem to remember seeing you call out a couple of unnecessarily hostile or dismissive posts in the days after. I think the need to define exactly what's wrong kind of just leads to unhelpful stuff like naming specific posters or posts. I was hopeful that just a general awareness that some people don't wanna post about wrestling if it means getting yelled at and insulted would have a gradual improvement to the culture of the place. But I also think there's a lot of posters who just enjoy that and the attitude is that's them and normal and fun so things just settled back into their natural groove. But also, you know... we had this discussion. We know we don't all agree. So what can you do? STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 22:29
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm generally just trying to be chill but yeah, my biggest take away from that discussion was that people who want to not be yelled at about their wrestling opinions also really liked yelling at others. We should all be chill but there was a lot of rules for thee and not for me being asked for. Generally I do think people have been cooling down with the exception of a few who I do also think were the worst about wanting to be mad but not be mad at. Yeah, I don't think there's some "side" of this that is right or wrong. Its not AEW fans vs AEW haters or something. Its just a lot of people who's first instinct is to insult someone or can't scroll past a conversation they're not interested in without making a passive aggressive slight or just can't handle disagreement without losing it. And yeah, a lot of posters who do love yelling and insulting people also really don't like it when it comes back on them to any degree. And I dunno. Either that chills out or it doesn't. But I didn't know what the solution to making hundreds of people chill out was then and I don't know now.
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Aug 27, 2022 22:44
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TTBF posted:I'm not talking about her sometimes quite weird takes and I agree that take was exceptionally something else. I'm talking about when she'd say things like it was hard to care about new people getting pushed because it's common to get a push and disappear for a while. It did kind of illustrate the problem though. Because a poster was brought up as having been "driven away" and then immediately that poster was attacked as having said something worthy of being ganged up on. And the fact that LL continued to post after that and there's been other incidents with much less contentious subjects goes by the wayside. The instinct is defensive and aggressive.
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Aug 27, 2022 23:20
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Critical posted:the last big post she made was comparing people who act pithy on here to a guy who wanted nothing more than to scream the n word into the mic at karaoke. this was less than 48 hours after someone acted lovely to her in a thread and was shouted down by most of the thread for doing so And the result is a place where everyone is screaming at each other and the only way you find peace is if a bunch of people get driven off. Again it’s why I don’t think anything gets accomplished singling out posters or posts. I could certainly point out nasty things said to LL or unfair probations or gang ups. Or single out this person or that person. But at some point someone’s gotta just drop grudges and pettiness or turn the other cheek or something. At least assuming we want to defuse this stuff instead of just win fights and chase people off.
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Aug 27, 2022 23:39
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Tweak posted:put slow mode on the weekly AEW thread just to see what happens I think this is an idea with merit. It could slow down the meltdowns and pile ons and mean that those posters who always have to voice their displeasure with conversations they don’t like can at least only do it so much instead of spamming the thread. I actually think one of the common problems is that like a topic is being discussed and then a handful of posters declare it bad “discourse” and shitpost it into a mess. That could potentially stifle that.
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Aug 28, 2022 05:28
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I’m reading through the last dozen pages of today and like you can see it pop up again and again. People asking HOW anyone could have criticisms about AEW. People saying that it’s “performative” or “disingenuous”. These appeals to like fans owing AEW something or I don’t know what. “How can you watch a show this good and not be appreciative?” It’s weird and like… people have subjective opinions. “Good” and “bad” are subjective. The weird need some posters have to make every poster criticizing something not just “wrong” but outright deceptive and with some kind of ulterior motive seems very constant. Like at some point you have to be able to accept that some people just don’t like X or appreciate it in a different way. And yeah. Maybe someone WILL be carrying a grudge or trolling or something. But if people are asking “how can anyone criticize this show?” then there’s no room for anything else.
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Sep 2, 2022 02:14
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yea ok posted:I typed more than that and clarified, but I'm not going to ignore people in the thread for talking about the forum, even if they disagree with me. Thank you for your suggestion. And for the record I completely respect and appreciate you coming at me in good faith. And the truth is I probably conflated too many ideas into a "theme" in that post and made it seem more like a universal mantra than it is. I'm sorry about that. I see posters like yourself disagreeing in good faith and engaging and then saying simple fair things like "we just like different things." I also see stuff like "Performatively criticizing a small component of AEW's build to a main event ppv match between their two biggest stars to own the weekly discussion thread" or "gonna just keep disingenuously calling a producer of the show Some Dude so I don't actually have to understand the story". And these are individual posts on the extreme end of things but I think the basic problem we have is that they come in this huge maelstrom of posts so then all that other stuff... the "ribbing" and the friendly name calling and the heated exchanges and the passionate defenses of their favorites and the callouts of people with pasts or supposed hidden agendas. It all kind of tends to blur together. Which I guess is what I did an I apologize for it. But I also think its kind of easy to do and then it becomes easier to just assume the worst or get tired of it all. And I think that's just why I think people need to at some point hold back a little. Myself included. I regret the post I made. I should have just stepped back and taken a little more time make sure I saw what I saw and interpreted things fairly. Don't punch just because you think you're justified. Give someone a little more benefit of the doubt than maybe they deserve. I just think its a tone and vibe that needs to break somewhere. flatluigi posted:also, point to exactly one person anywhere who's legitimately said it's impossible to have criticisms about aew or in disbelief that anyone said anything Its weird because I swear I saw a post that said something like "people forget we're watching the best north american wrestling of all time" and for the life of me I can't find it. So I guess I'm losing my mind. My bad.
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Sep 2, 2022 02:58
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Like I'm not even talking about anyone else but me at this stage. There's that part of me that wants to keep looking for the posts that I was reacting to. Sure they must be there somewhere in the dozen pages and people i have on ignore. But there's another part of me that simply says "get over it, let it go, accept you were wrong, apologize, move on." And I dunno. I feel that first voice is always on around here and the second isn't heard enough. But that starts with me. And I'm sorry.
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Sep 2, 2022 03:11
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The Bad Takes thread is literally a thread devoted to finding opinions everyone can mock and laugh at. So like it’s hardly surprising that peoples natural response in that environment would be to mock and laugh at opinions they don’t like or agree with. It’s the established culture.
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Dec 3, 2022 01:00
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I used to post a lot about wrestling. I used to post whenever this conversation came up. I’ve been trying to stop both. Because clearly the place I want this to be isnt the place mods or a vocal plurality of the forum wants it to be. And that’s life. I can keep making enemies by having a different opinion or I can try and move on. Nothings really gonna change otherwise.
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 03:37
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For whatever its worth I'll simply address the "I feel like I'm reading a different forum" thing. I think its very easy and normal that if you're on the inside of a group you might not notice things that group does or you will interpret it in a different way than people outside of it will. That's not bad, its human nature. We all have our own perspective. Trusting your own perspective as the objective truth is an easy trap to fall into, and its even more tempting if you have friends reinforcing that. A thread like this should be a helpful place to hear other perspectives and try and see how this place is being seen by everyone. And I think its helpful to hear that out instead of dismissing it as sometimes happens because it doesn't reflect what you see. At least that's my take.
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Feb 28, 2023 04:37
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JUNGLE BOY posted:There isn’t any inside group, I don’t have friends here. I just post and have fun. It’s wild to me that it’s interpreted as anything other than a fun, lighthearted place to post. It matches the vibe of all of the other subforums I read on this site which is why I keep coming back to SA. It’s antithetical to all of the miserable places elsewhere on the internet to discuss my various hobbies. I'm not saying there's some secret insiders. But every group has an in and an out just by how long people have been around or how much they hang around. That's basic social dynamics. And its on display everytime a new poster shows up and is jumped on vs when a longtime poster is given the benefit of the doubt. Or every time there's a running gag that might be misunderstood by a newer poster or seen as something more aggressive. Its not some list of names in a secret clubhouse. Its just a vibe and an atmosphere and culture and familiarity. Its just a natural thing that develops and its healthy to just never assume your perspective is the only one. Because it isn't. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 05:39
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Yeah I literally said there’s no inside group, just a general familiarity and way of doing things. I also said in my first post we’ve done this a bunch and it goes nowhere and it’s clear a plurality of posters like it so really the only reasonable thing for someone like me who doesn’t feel comfortable to do is stop posting. I just didn’t follow that advice and that’s on me. Re: Jungle Boy, I don’t wanna ignore your question to me. I just felt like others offered examples as much as I could. Unfortunately I don’t have receipts. And maybe you’re right. Maybe everytime I’ve seen some poster get jumped on it was some rereg or something. I’m not sure that’s an excuse to me for aggro, hostile posting and I think it happens in other ways including like “you don’t post enough in the forums to complain that you don’t like posting in the forums”. I’m sure the place is very welcoming to people who come in vibing with the opinions and atmosphere. And that’s very cool. I think things are rougher if you have an unpopular opinion (and assuming you’re not being offensive or trolling, which certainly some are). But again, these are all litigated matters and I really didn’t think I was saying something controversial to say groups get insular over time. Obviously it was more loaded than I was thinking last night given all the past debates and how personal this gets. That seems obvious in retrospect and it’s my bad.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:53
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Shard posted:idgi As I understand it the plane graphic is from a study the military did to determine where a plane was most vulnerable so it could be reinforced. So they did a study of bullet holes and damage and came up with that. But then they realized the problem is that they were studying the planes that made it back, not the ones that were shot down. That information was missing and they could never get it so that made it a lot harder to actually find accurate conclusions. I assume the point is that a forum made up of people who are happy at the way the forum works are the planes that made it back. We don't know what the planes that were shot down didn't like or how to address it because they're gone. But I'm not sure. That's just how I interpreted it.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:44
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