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LLU: OTJ Archetypes and Key Cards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2HXqyzDvsg (Alex has trophied 7 out of his past 10 drafts before recording this video, usually this video comes out later in the format but he feels pretty confident right now) The Three Pillars and the Removal Imperative Understand which cards fit into what decks; there are green cards that fit in Naya Aggro but not in BG Recursion, or black cards that go in Grixis Crimes and not BG Recursion. You must also understand the dynamics of removal – you need a lot of removal, and you should also assume your opponent will have a lot of removal. There are more rare bombs because of the play booster setup, and because aggro is not as dominant they will show up more often, so you need ways to get rid of them or lose. Usually hyper-efficient removal at 2 is enough, but this is “back to Boomer Magic” where 4-mana removal like Consuming Ashes is usable. The “Three Pillars” assume opponents will have removal and have a way to deal with them. -- Naya Aggro Removal strategy: protect bombs with Take Up the Shield or Snakeskin Veil There are different kinds of aggro decks so you need to identify: what is your main way of pushing damage? Go wide? Stompy? Tricksy? Fliers? This will determine which noncreature spells you have. (You will still need removal regardless; Throw from the Saddle and Mystical Tether are premium.) Stompy decks will have big creatures and pump, so that every turn the opponent is behind and can’t block properly. Either they can’t block at all, or they would be forced to double block and risk getting blown out by a trick. If you set up this position, they’re forced to use a removal spell to stay in the game, and the blowout comes with using a protection spell. Fliers avoid the blocking game for the most part and therefore also demand removal. Reach for the Sky is a legitimately good trick if you can’t get a grip of Take of the Shield. There aren’t that many 2-drops, but you shouldn’t play 2-drops just to fill that slot. GW Aggro decks don’t really want Voracious Varmint, Hardbristle Bandit, or Outlaw Medic. Sterling Keykeeper is okay for tapping down a blocker, but still not great. Aggro 2-drops like Trained Arynx are ideal. You need at least 6 2-drops that are difficult to block to be a viable aggro deck. Beyond that you need to beef up the higher parts of the curve (this isn’t ONE). Sterling Supplier is a solid card which pushes damage in the air and can make an earlier small creature able to attack again. Dance of the Tumbleweeds can create another threat; Bristlepack Sentry needs to be enabled but it is good if you have a reasonable chance for 4 power on turn 3. RG is actually a bit worse than GW at being Stompy. You don’t have Take Up the Shield, and the gold uncommons are worse than GW’s (Jolene vs. Miriam; Congregation Gryff vs Cactusfolk Sureshot). The creatures are more liable to get stalled out. The roadrunner, coyote, and Hellspur Brute are good in red but they are at uncommon, so there’s a bit less consistency. You might be more midrangey to make things work (Jolene can help with splashing). RW is “still pretty bad”; it’s not like you can’t trophy with it, but on average it will be weaker than the other two pairs. No access to green means minimal stompy potential. If you open Bruse Tarl then draft the Ox deck lol. The creatures are small so you won’t be forcing them to block early. Going wide with Outlaw’s Fury + Prickly Pair + Ertha Jo + Prosperity Tycoon maybe? You’ll play a bit of a longer game, chip damage when you can, and then deal 10 damage with an alpha strike. -- BG Recursion (splash blue or white) Removal strategy: Regrow cards from the graveyard. Keep in mind there is exile removal like Consuming Ashes and Mystical Tether. But you can mitigate kill spells with Honest Rutstein, Back for More, Badlands Revival, Mourner’s Surprise (play 2 or 3 of them, take them over removal even). Removal is plentiful in this color compared to recursion, so if you’re building this deck you need to prioritize recursion to make it work. Lively Dirge is more niche; it works best with a bunch of 2-drops. You can set up Nezumi Linkbreaker and Unscrupulous Contractor for massive value. Ruthless Lawbringer is BW but it’s worth splashing in this deck since this can be a repeatable removal spell; Shepherd of the Clouds is also good value. Another good splash creature is Slickshot Lockpicker, which gives you another shot at your recursion spells. For splashing, the first Conduit Pylons is very important (take it early); it both fixes and also stocks the graveyard. Mirage Mesa is less important. The BG desert is obvious to include. Oasis Gardener is possibly worth it if you have bombs in 4 or 5 colors, but not with just one splash. On the other hand, Redrock Sentinel is a sleeper. 2/4 blocks all day and is flood insurance. Enabler creatures like Desperate Bloodseeker are good (mill yourself); this is the deck for Patient Naturalist, not the aggro one. Voracious Varmint will deal with the enchantment removal that prevents you from stocking your graveyard, it’s a form of recursion. Surveil is also like self-mill; you might want to play Sterling Hound. Examples of creatures that don’t go in here: Raven of Fell Omens and Forsaken Miner (you’re not criming and you need to block well) You want large creatures to maximize value of recursion. Spinewoods Armadillo is the premium uncommon for this; you can place it in the graveyard for value and then buy it back. Spinewoods Paladin and Ambush Gigapede are also good. Hollow Marauder is very important for tying the room together. -- Grixis Crimes Removal strategy: Relying on noncreature value engines that weaken spot removal. Sam Black focuses on this archetype as “burn”; Alex focuses on noncreature permanents that avoid removal. Bandit’s Haul (Alex’s sleeper hit of the set) is fixing and card draw. If your deck is heavy removal spells, you usually fall behind on one-for-one exchanges, but this means that you get a card back for every two of those. At Knifepoint generates tokens and builds incremental advantage. Keep your instant crimes up to get double the tokens. (RB Outlaw aggro is bad and this card’s bad 17lands stats is coming from people forcing that, but it works as a value engine). Intimidation Campaign is lower tier than these other two; it is more mana intensive and doesn’t give you mana compared to Bandit’s Haul. Brimstone Roundup is less reliable than these other permanents but is still usable as a secondary. Emergent Haunting is even more niche but fits the overall gameplan. Opening something like Gisa the Hellraiser, Vladimir New Blood, Magda the Hoardmaster, and Marchesa Dealer of Death puts you into this archetype. Marauding Sphinx is an uncommon but also pushes you in this direction. Keep in mind that “your good creatures tend to die” since this deck won’t be creature threat heavy and your opponent will have plenty of removal. Mourner’s Surprise lets you claw back after that. The lesser crime creature payoffs: Lazav Familiar Stranger, Kaervek the Punisher, Vial Smasher, Raven of Fell Omens, Blood Hustler. (These work better in Sam Black’s Grixis). Slickshot Lockpicker and Archive Trap is a legitimate combo kill lmao. Play control, mill your opponent for 26. This has won a Pro Tour draft already. Slick Sequence, Tyrant’s Scorn, Binding Negotiation are all good instant/sorcery spells; the discard spell is important for getting information so that you can better target your removal. Blue spells: Take the Fall is good; Metamorphic Blast is too. Jailbreak Scheme is not an instant (please remember this) but it’s pretty good for increasing crime density. The so-called “Lords of Limited” think Phantom Interference is bad but Alex thinks it’s usable because even with Plot in the format, they will have expensive cards that aren’t plottable and most people won’t play around it. Deserts are important for fixing, criming, and powering up Desert’s Due. Take half on-color deserts. Sandstorm Verge is clunky but this is repeatable criming. CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Apr 27, 2024 |
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Apr 27, 2024 18:00
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Sequencing question: Do you play the second Arynx to maybe bait out removal before playing Miriam, or just jam Miriam for immediate value?
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Apr 27, 2024 20:49
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This was a crazy deck, 7-1. First foray into over-the-top bomb fixing, Greenblade was a monster.  e: Note, no blue cards! lol ^^ I am jamming Miriam on 3 and hoping for another land to plot on 4. Assuming op is tapped out
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Apr 27, 2024 20:56
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lol finally trophied this set. after listening to that podcast I thought I would try the BG recursion deck but got completely ranched 1-3, most of my hands were unplayable because either i would draw all the recursion spells without any creatures or I would have the big creatures in my hand but not enablers so they would be stuck in my hand and I would have terrible turn 1-4 plays. The one time I actually managed to recur stuff the opponent had literally 4 removal spells in a row and since they started ahead i was still dead lol So I just drafted "the good deck" the next time lol  https://www.17lands.com/draft/fa069241022248abb5c6fef5db2a0e46   The highlight was finally being the deck with all the removal, faced a numbered Mythic who had an explosive plotted Railway Brawler + double Raucous Entertainer start but I was able to pick it apart I haven't been as obsessive keeping track of my stats but after this i did take a look, 28-26 (51.8%) lol
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Apr 27, 2024 21:51
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Having some really fun games in silver - Holy Cow + Nurturing Pixie + Holy Cow again getting out of Blood Hustler/Raven of Fell Omens range - being able to block Raven is super clutch on the cow. Using Return the Favor to reverse removal and cause a concede on turn 4. Doing the Taii Wakeen + Deadshot Duelist for exactsies while staring down lethal. Having to hold back deserts on early turns to perfectly sequence crimes later in the game. I've had people steal my stuff with Jasper Flint and kill me with it, I've won games with Fling'ing my Calamity Galloping Inferno when it's targeted by Take for a Ride, I've won games by using Take for a Ride and then making copies of that creature with my own Calamity. I've been Mindslaver'ed, lost to Snakeskin Veil, misplayed my Archangel of Tithes (in both directions). I think I'm forgetting cool stuff that's happened and I haven't even played that many events? Overall, the set seems like it can definitely deliver on interesting gameplay patterns. I'll be sympathetic if it turns out at the higher ratings that it is "all green, all the time" and thus a little more boring than playing in the lower levels. I appreciate all the casual reach creatures chilling, I am definitely playing at the level that the new bow and arrow is only *maybe* too big. I did 0-3 my first Sealed that I played a pool with 2 Railway Brawlers, 2 Caractantula, Badlands Revival, and Fling  That felt bad, and unexpected.Would anyone care to advise on my Bo3 Sealed Pool? I have played no games, but am unsure even what colors to focus on. I originally built w black in mind, since rares (tinybones joins up, Vadimir, Rush of Dread, Void Rend maybe even) pushed me in that direction, but I think I need to utilize my white and green cards, which can let me play Annie Flash, which looks to be a decent card! Game says there's only 44 hrs left on Sealed, so I'll have to make some decisions somewhere. 2 pics linked to show full sideboard - do I play the Mindslaver??? Do I cut red almost entirely?   Any advice is appreciated!
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Apr 27, 2024 22:24
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Ultimatefire posted:Any advice is appreciated! I think you are on the right track, I would do something like: code:A forums note, for deck advice (especially sealed with sooo many cards), it can be easier for others if you post a link to your deck in https://sealeddeck.tech/. Click Add to Decks from the Sealed interface then export from your Decks tab in Arena and paste into the site
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Apr 27, 2024 23:21
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Sequencing question: black red lands on the opponents side = no miriam blue green white = yes miriam
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Apr 27, 2024 23:40
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Sequencing question: you cropped out the most important part of the question, what lands the opponent has
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Apr 28, 2024 00:40
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They bounced a Creosote Heath with their Arid Archway, no other permanents
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Apr 28, 2024 00:53
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it's entirely a game of whether or not you think you're opponent is likely to have removal in hand and how much your deck wins or loses off of guessing wrong
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Apr 28, 2024 01:16
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In general I would probably be less precious about your aggro two drops, even if they are premium. if it dies you still made a 4/2 first striking scry machine which is exceptionally hard to block in this format early. that very likely gets you far ahead while they figure out how to deal with it. in this case i think you probably lose more equity than gain by holding it, but its a tough call in the blind. know your role in the draft and play to it imo
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Apr 28, 2024 01:56
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It sounds like your opponent's next turn is only going to have one coloured mana anyway? So if they answer Miriam then they're not playing to the board at all that turn and are going to be on the back foot. If you play the other Arynx then your opponent is likely to just play a creature of their own, which can trade with whatever Arynx you don't saddle if that's what your opponent wants to do, and then your opponent can potentially double-spell the next turn and not be too far behind.
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Apr 28, 2024 02:08
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I would play Miriam because at least twice now I've tapped the arynx I played turn 2 to saddle the summoning sick one on turn 3 and been sad.
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Apr 28, 2024 02:13
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One crazy trick to make your red opponent concede turn 3: play a Polukranus.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:49
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This format is goofy Played blue main, went 0-3
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Apr 28, 2024 10:17
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ooooook two 0-3 quick drafts … in Silver gonna touch grass
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Apr 28, 2024 17:32
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Quick draft rewards are way too reduced just to save a little time waiting for everyone to make their picks.
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Apr 28, 2024 17:53
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I take longer on a QD because the big advantage is that you have all the time in the world to make your pick. I look up stats and weigh which way the deck is going etc. It's great practice for card evaluation on the fly when you are under a hard limit!
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Apr 28, 2024 19:41
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Khanstant posted:Quick draft rewards are way too reduced just to save a little time waiting for everyone to make their picks. also you're at a massive disadvantage compared to anyone who knows how to abuse what the bots will pick and what they'll pass, which tends to be the exact opposite way you'd want to draft
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Apr 28, 2024 19:45
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 Devilish Valet is a fun card. 65k w/ trample coming at you. (Put a +1/+1 token on DV at combat with Siege Veteran, 8 Tokens came in w/ Anim Pakal ability, triggering DV, Since DV's power is 2, Delaney doubled the triggers so 2^16 power.) Paint Crop Pro fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 20:05
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Well, I just lost to a deck that killed me by only playing the “1 damage to opponent” deserts. Like that was the only source of damage they did to me. Green Tortoise guy to mill to bring back a land for a ping of damage, aftermath analyst to stock the GY and eventually sac and bring back tons of lands for the kill. At first, I laughed! I wasn’t really threatened. But then I got nervous after he played the first analyst so I threw him the ol’ Kellan sweating emote. I was removing poo poo as fast as humanly loving possible, but THEN they casted some spell where they sacrificed all their own lands (like 10+ of them after they tapped out of course) to draw a card for each one and then just played another analyst, sac analyst, pull the lands, re-tap out then continue the sequence all in the same main phase. Brutal way to lose, but honestly I saw it coming with how my luck has been going today. Must have had a premonition to pop that emote. Q: How do you tap all your lands at once? This guy was def doing that. Is it possible on mobile?
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Apr 28, 2024 21:12
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Born in Bexhill posted:Q: How do you tap all your lands at once? This guy was def doing that. Is it possible on mobile? On desktop if you quickly press Q twice it taps all your lands for mana, not sure if there's an equivalent for mobile.
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Apr 28, 2024 21:19
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I'm very impressed with the Bronco winrate at the PT because I cannot for the life of me buy a win with this deck lol
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Apr 28, 2024 21:47
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flatluigi posted:also you're at a massive disadvantage compared to anyone who knows how to abuse what the bots will pick and what they'll pass, which tends to be the exact opposite way you'd want to draft god i wish QD was unranked, it would make it so much less annoying as a format.
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Apr 28, 2024 22:56
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thespaceinvader posted:god i wish QD was unranked, it would make it so much less annoying as a format. that doesn't matter, people would still try their hardest to make and play powerful decks as seen both on the unranked queue and the midweek events
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Apr 28, 2024 22:58
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flatluigi posted:that doesn't matter, people would still try their hardest to make and play powerful decks as seen both on the unranked queue and the midweek events
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Apr 28, 2024 23:19
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Lone Goat posted:On desktop if you quickly press Q twice it taps all your lands for mana, not sure if there's an equivalent for mobile. Cool, thank you
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Apr 28, 2024 23:36
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there should be a queue for people who 1) always lose against me and 2) are me
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Apr 29, 2024 00:22
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 Finally got to try UR in draft. Deck was sweet. 7-1 with the loss probably being more because of me than the deck.
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Apr 29, 2024 03:57
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flatluigi posted:also you're at a massive disadvantage compared to anyone who knows how to abuse what the bots will pick and what they'll pass, which tends to be the exact opposite way you'd want to draft Yeah I should look that up next time before I blow more gold on decks that are like... All the cards I'd want to support some way better cards that never came. From my ignorant perspective today and yesterday, my feeling about bot drafters is they rare draft like they're desperate to complete collection, maybe specifically never get packs with more than 1, and I know it can't be true but it felt like they were sniping me to snag up anything in my chosen lanes. I'm also only silver, or knocked down to silver after several bad drafts this morning, and it felt like my opponents had some really clever and complicated decks I don't think I'd seen in normal drafts so far. In the end I lost more than usual, but I also made several decks in a short period and there's something fun about trying to Speedrun drafting and jamming the deck ASAP even if it didn't work out so hot . Also I left one game turn 1 because I thought I'd be clever and play my bounce land to an empty board, thinking it would just not return anything to hand because I had no lands to return! It gave me the smiley face survey after lol.
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Apr 29, 2024 04:56
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What's the best Oko deck in timeless right now?
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Apr 29, 2024 06:11
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Toozler posted:I think you are on the right track, I would do something like: Thanks for advices! Played it out tonight with a few hrs to spare, following advice:  Had some good games in there, had some blowouts. Annie Flash didn't get on the board often, but Prairie Dogs x2 and Outlaw Medic were good feeling targets to have in GY. Prairie Dogs won a game entirely by itself (well, because of snakeskin veil giving a purpose to holding up mana). Freestrider Commando was hard to tell when to cast w.o Plot, but it felt like it is right more often than zero. Vigilance was super helpful on Giant Beaver, less so on Voracious Varmint but still noticeable. I definitely felt like I was making play mistakes, specifically with whether to attack into a double block or whether to leave up a double block. In a match that I did not win, I lost to Generous Plunderer, but mostly on the menace ability making blocking hard and tink'ing life away (actually lost to great train heist adding 8 dmg for lethal lol):  Because even this type of stompy deck has deserts in it, I know you have to eke out that first 6 to 8 dmg near the start. I lost game 3 of that match with him at 1, after playing a desert - I could have tapped a mercenary differently on an earlier turn for 1 more dmg !! I was scared because of the Great Train Heist game before, of course. Link to turn 7, in case anyone cares. I attk w merc instead of 2/4. Lose 1 dmg. https://www.17lands.com/history/1366ee4bc0cb45eabb6d7b83ab1beee2/1/2/88 All in all, a fun set so far. Glad I could get a trophy in Sealed before it passed! 
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Apr 29, 2024 09:21
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flatluigi posted:that doesn't matter, people would still try their hardest to make and play powerful decks as seen both on the unranked queue and the midweek events I'm not sure this is true given it would still cost gems/gold which those formats don't - and reportedly the queues are way softer in unranked Bo3, but I don't always have the time to commit to 3 full draft matches in one go, so I don't usually play that format. And either way, what I want from QD is a chance to jam draft games which I find more interesting and have a more interesting balance point even in QD that standard or brawl games - but without pushing my rank up so when I go back to premiere I end up getting my poo poo kicked in because I'm in platinum or diamond from games I was just playing for fun without actively trying to draft a set to completion, and wrecking my run at premiere. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 09:42
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QD feels like it should be unranked as the low-cost, low-stakes draft with no timer. It doesn't really make sense that Bo3, the actual paper Magic competitive format, is the one that is least competitive on MTGA. As a result of the unranked matchmaking traditional draft is usually the easiest format in my experience, I have considerably higher winrate there than premier or even quick draft. But I'm with you on preferring the Bo1 format online, it just fits with how I want to play computer games better.
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Apr 29, 2024 10:49
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I've read in multiple places that BO1 is far more popular on MTGA than BO3, for exactly this reason:big scary monsters posted:But I'm with you on preferring the Bo1 format online, it just fits with how I want to play computer games better. People play MTGA while their laundry is running, or while dinner is in the oven, to get a quick fix. People play paper MTG at events like FNM, or cons, etc., where they're expecting to spend N hours doing nothing but socializing, trading, buying/selling, and playing.
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Apr 29, 2024 11:15
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Man, diamond is just too difficult in draft. Feels like you need perfect decks and play. Sort of saps the fun out of it
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Apr 29, 2024 11:46
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Megasabin posted:Man, diamond is just too difficult in draft. Feels like you need perfect decks and play. Sort of saps the fun out of it It's not really worth playing Bo1 draft past Platinum unless you're like a top 1% player. You're just gonna bleed more and more gems the higher you go.
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Apr 29, 2024 11:56
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Who wants to see the most bomb-heavy draft in human history I don't even think I drafted correctly insofar as there are too many aggro elements in it, but who cares lol
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Apr 29, 2024 12:36
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Bland posted:It's not really worth playing Bo1 draft past Platinum unless you're like a top 1% player. You're just gonna bleed more and more gems the higher you go. Yeah. I’d still like to draft more, but it’s brutal. Maybe best of 3 would be better. I’d rather not do a not draft
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Apr 29, 2024 12:53
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319E4-25AEC-CC0B1-82322-AFD60 hopefully it works, I bought a prerelease stamped card that was still in its pack wei fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 12:58
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