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OwlFancier posted:I still think the obsession that upper crust types, and americans, have with it is frankly perverse. It makes very little difference to me what some distant ancestor of mine was doing other than to the degree it has produced me where I am, and I am already aware of the fact that I am here. There's a difference between family histories being used to glorify the lineage of the aristocracy, and being interesting for historical reasons or to get a sense of where the culture you inherit from your parents and close family might have come from. Just because you're not interested, that doesn't make it a toff thing. My dad's side of the family come from all over northern England, Wales, and Scotland, and my mum's side come from eastern Germany and what is now northern Poland. The stuff some of my family who have looked into this have unearthed is fascinating.
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Nov 30, 2022 16:42
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https://twitter.com/anna_itsonlyme/status/1597938833844482049
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Nov 30, 2022 16:46
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I think the more acceptable way of asking is what their ethnic heritage is? Even then I can't think of many situations where it's appropriate to be the white one bringing it up. I think it's one of those things where it's just not a "stranger small talk" conversation. Hits different when you're in the getting to know someone as a friend stage and it could flow naturally from another conversation.
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Nov 30, 2022 16:53
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Reveilled posted:I think it's one of those things where it's just not a "stranger small talk" conversation. Hits different when you're in the getting to know someone as a friend stage and it could flow naturally from another conversation. I'm reminded of when I shared a flat with a Nigerian girl in our 20s. We were chatting about underwear suitable to wear under office clothes one day and she said 'get a black bra, it's invisible then under a white blouse' - after a few seconds we looked at each other and burst out laughing. She'd also had a run in at school when school said every girl who chose tights had to wear neutral tights (in the god awful days of 'American Tan' which is what they meant). So obviously she got black tights. When the teacher was inspecting clothes, she said to her 'you're not supposed to have black tights'. Then stopped as she realized.
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Nov 30, 2022 17:03
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Reveilled posted:I think it's one of those things where it's just not a "stranger small talk" conversation. Hits different when you're in the getting to know someone as a friend stage and it could flow naturally from another conversation. The charity she was from is apparently focused on women of African and Caribbean heritage so its a bit of a coincidence thats what the weird conversation was about.
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Nov 30, 2022 17:08
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We did ours with a Singaporean company so while my wife knows exactly which parts of Greater China and the Nine-Dash-Line her ancestors are from, I’m just generically Western/Northern European.Bobby Deluxe posted:But yeah, I'm scratching my head trying to come up with valid situations where it's OK to ask someone why they look not-white, even if you word it nicely. Like census taking or if they brought it up, but asking the head of a charity who's do you're at where he's 'from' is not making that list. “Where’s home for you?” works as small talk and doesn’t assume anything about the person you’re talking to. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Nov 30, 2022 |
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Nov 30, 2022 17:14
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Beefeater1980 posted:We did ours with a Singaporean company so while my wife knows exactly which parts of Greater China and the Nine-Dash-Line her ancestors are from, I’m just genetically Western/Northern European. Username checks out
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Nov 30, 2022 17:16
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Failed Imagineer posted:Username checks out Genetically -> generically.
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Nov 30, 2022 17:17
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I don't want to downplay the terrible racism, but it's pretty remarkable that the palace held an event with Camilla combatting the prevalence of a "global pandemic of violence against women," and apparently no one asked her about what the family was doing with her brother-in-law.
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Nov 30, 2022 17:22
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My ancestry goes as far back as a stereotypical alcoholic great grandfather from Glasgow and a totally boring/unknown family from County Fermanagh. 
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Nov 30, 2022 17:34
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I'm reminded of when I shared a flat with a Nigerian girl in our 20s. We were chatting about underwear suitable to wear under office clothes one day and she said 'get a black bra, it's invisible then under a white blouse' - after a few seconds we looked at each other and burst out laughing. When I was based out in South Africa I remember my black colleagues being somewhat surprised I was actually interested in their heritage, the distinct impression I got was that white people they'd worked with before perceived them as just generically "black". I also picked up that my white colleagues made bascially no effort to pronounce the black staff members names correctly; it was kind of sad how quickly I found I could make people like me just by actually saying their names right. More than once I saw some new staff whose names included a click sound do a literal double-take because they'd apparently never heard a white person call them by their actual name. I even got introduced as "the white guy who does clicks" at one point which is just like, how terrible is it that that's noteworthy somehow.
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Nov 30, 2022 17:36
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Despite my physical appearance, I've been asked several times at Chinese supermarkets and restaurants whether I'm Chinese or have lived in Hong Kong based on what I'm buying/ordering.
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Nov 30, 2022 17:45
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Despite my physical appearance, I've been asked several times at Chinese supermarkets and restaurants whether I'm Chinese or have lived in Hong Kong based on what I'm buying/ordering. Username / Post Disparity 
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Nov 30, 2022 17:49
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NoneMoreNegative posted:Username / Post Disparity The post does begin "despite my physical appearance"
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Nov 30, 2022 17:59
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OwlFancier posted:I still think the obsession that upper crust types, and americans, have with it is frankly perverse. I think the bit that sucks is when people think their ancestry says or explains something about themselves (eg "I claim to have some characteristic, it is the Irish/Italian/Plantagenet in me"), instead of being cool anecdotes.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:04
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I think it’s all contextual. I get told a lot “oh you’re basically Chinese, you’re not a real foreigner” because I speak and write and generally behave like a normal person for where I live. This is entirely a product of Chinese identity not being at all threatened in China, which as of 2022 despite recent and ongoing wobbles is by global standards well off, optimistic and hopeful for the future. Under those circumstances it’s easy to grant associate status to an outsider. If things get really nasty, all those Brits who thought they were expats will realise very fast they’re actually immigrants.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:15
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mrpwase posted:There's a difference between family histories being used to glorify the lineage of the aristocracy, and being interesting for historical reasons or to get a sense of where the culture you inherit from your parents and close family might have come from. Just because you're not interested, that doesn't make it a toff thing.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:33
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I did a lot of family history research back in the early days of the internet (pre-Ancestry, pre-online census) because my relatives were taking part in a genetics study run at a University and the researchers needed to know that stuff. Kinda interesting working out which great-great grandparents gifted their descendants a potentially fatal mutation. Speaking of family history, the 1921 Scottish census goes live today.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:42
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Beefeater1980 posted:“Where’s home for you?” works as small talk and doesn’t assume anything about the person you’re talking to. Even "where are you from?" works fine if you're not a weird as poo poo obsessive racist. Her first couple of answers were answers to "which association/charity are you from" and "which part of the country are you from" which are both fine conversation starters, though I guess you might want to be a bit more specific to avoid accidentally coming across as a "but where are you FROM from?" racist.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:46
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Runcible Cat posted:Even "where are you from?" works fine if you're not a weird as poo poo obsessive racist. Her first couple of answers were answers to "which association/charity are you from" and "which part of the country are you from" which are both fine conversation starters, though I guess you might want to be a bit more specific to avoid accidentally coming across as a "but where are you FROM from?" racist. Yeah agree, it’s all context.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:50
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Both sides of my family were Cork dirt-farmers for the past thousand years, except that my family/clan supposedly originate from Ragnar Lothbrok via his son Ivar the Boneless. Why would I want to upset that neat origin story with the knowledge that Ragnar is at least semi-mythical, or even worse do some genetic testing and discover a Welshman had slipped into my great-great-(n)-granny's DMs at some point.
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Nov 30, 2022 18:50
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Failed Imagineer posted:Ivar the Boneless. how come he didnt have any bones?
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Nov 30, 2022 18:53
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It just means he had trouble getting it up
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Nov 30, 2022 18:57
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Apparently not that much trouble given the leagues of descendants.
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Nov 30, 2022 19:01
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If they don't have a really strong and instantly identifiable local accent, try "have you been here long?" as an icebreaker question. Prompts them to reveal as much as they're comfortable with and direct the conversation down whatever lines they'd prefer.
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Nov 30, 2022 19:05
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NotJustANumber99 posted:how come he didnt have any bones? There's a really cool suggestion it was because he had brittle bone disease: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqMNZvqnwzA (highly recommended for the chance to see Nabil Shaban having the time of his life carried around on a shield shooting arrows).
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Nov 30, 2022 19:16
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Dabir posted:If they don't have a really strong and instantly identifiable local accent, try "have you been here long?" as an icebreaker question. Prompts them to reveal as much as they're comfortable with and direct the conversation down whatever lines they'd prefer. The gently caress?
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Nov 30, 2022 19:20
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Failed Imagineer posted:Both sides of my family were Cork dirt-farmers for the past thousand years, except that my family/clan supposedly originate from Ragnar Lothbrok via his son Ivar the Boneless. I prefer his brother Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye
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Nov 30, 2022 19:31
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Failed Imagineer posted:Both sides of my family were Cork dirt-farmers for the past thousand years, except that my family/clan supposedly originate from Ragnar Lothbrok via his son Ivar the Boneless. Does your family have a cultural disposition towards wearing long trousers, or an aversion to pits full of snakes?
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Nov 30, 2022 19:34
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Ivar the Boneless was presumably the Viking equivalent of Michael Gove.
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Nov 30, 2022 19:36
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Runcible Cat posted:There's a really cool suggestion it was because he had brittle bone disease: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqMNZvqnwzA (highly recommended for the chance to see Nabil Shaban having the time of his life carried around on a shield shooting arrows). Cool, thanks for sharing that, I must watch. And yeah either he had bad bones or his dick didn't work too good or maybe it was just a cool name I don't think we can be too definitive. I revealed this genealogical tidbit to my future father in law many years ago at a stuffy dinner and he nearly lost his life laughing at me mrpwase posted:Does your family have a cultural disposition towards wearing long trousers, or an aversion to pits full of snakes? our family crest is a sword with a snake around it so I guess we have powers of Snake Control(?). I think we've all been known to wear long pants now that you mention it. Genetics is a funny thing
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Nov 30, 2022 19:38
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Darth Walrus posted:Ivar the Boneless was presumably the Viking equivalent of Michael Gove. Vikael Gove
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Nov 30, 2022 19:48
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Beefeater1980 posted:The gently caress? What's the issue? If you're in Birmingham and the person you're talking to sounds like Carl Chinn, it's obviously a stupid question. Other than that, it's a question that doesn't presume anything of the person being asked. They could have lived here a long time and just not have picked up the accent, like the extremely Scottish deputy head at my secondary school. They could have lived somewhere else previously and only recently moved into the area, whether they came from Syria or Slough, or even Syria via Slough, and they're free to share as much or as little of that journey as they like. They could just be visiting for a few days and seeing the sights. And, crucially, it's a question that you can just as easily ask white people with the Englishest accents to ever English. When you ask someone "where are you from?" you're implying 'I don't think you're from here'. Asking "Have you been here long?" gives them the opportunity to define their relationship to the area for themselves. E: It's that season again, I guess 
Dabir fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Nov 30, 2022 |
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Nov 30, 2022 20:21
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You could also try, "so, this weather eh?".
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Nov 30, 2022 20:34
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:You could also try, "so, this weather eh?". How could I hope to have a conversation with somebody unless I've correctly ascertained their haplogroups, toilet preferences, and the size of their gametes?
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Nov 30, 2022 20:43
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why the gently caress do I bother
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Nov 30, 2022 20:48
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Dabir posted:why the gently caress do I bother Have you been here long?
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Nov 30, 2022 20:54
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Have you been here long? apparently not long enough to know not to ever post
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Nov 30, 2022 20:57
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Funnily enough I was on a racial fluency training course at work this week so this is a timely discussion. The "where are you really from" thing was a big topic of discussion within the subject of microaggressions more generally. Like many things that white people say to black people, it sounds like an innocuous attempt at small talk on the face of it but is often just a way to pigeonhole people and (inadvertently) downplay someone's identity. Someone suggested (both in this thread and on my course) using "what's your cultural heritage" but that sounds like pigeonholing to me too. It's basically a euphemism for "oh i've noticed you're not white, so now i have a follow up question". White people don't often ask other white people where they're from.
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Nov 30, 2022 21:17
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Microplastics posted:Funnily enough I was on a racial fluency training course at work this week so this is a timely discussion. The "where are you really from" thing was a big topic of discussion within the subject of microaggressions more generally. Like many things that white people say to black people, it sounds like an innocuous attempt at small talk on the face of it but is often just a way to pigeonhole people and (inadvertently) downplay someone's identity. Someone suggested (both in this thread and on my course) using "what's your cultural heritage" but that sounds like pigeonholing to me too. It's basically a euphemism for "oh i've noticed you're not white, so now i have a follow up question". White people don't often ask other white people where they're from. White people don’t? Perhaps not within a country where people can interpret accents, but my experience has been that white people absolutely do ask other white people where they’re from if they don’t have an accent or name that they can place. I think it just has fewer cultural connotations so people don’t remember it. As (a white) someone whose accent has been bludgeoned by being born in London, growing up in the Highlands hearing English accents at home, then living in Glasgow for a decade-plus and then coming back to London I absolutely get asked where I’m from. Personally I like to know where people are from, both literally and culturally. However, I wait until I actually loving know them, unlike the absolute horror-show royal-adjacent.
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Nov 30, 2022 21:31
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