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Torrannor posted:This is a cool level. I think it's a bit strange that you're so set on getting that health drop with Beat instead of Rush. If you use Rush, you have a non-depleted Beat to try to find out whether there really is something to the left of that one platform. Rush is for Mega Man. Beat is for Roll.
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Oct 8, 2022 17:45
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Explopyro posted:On the letters: they first appeared in Megaman 5, IIRC, and collecting all eight (to spell MEGAMANV) unlocked Beat. I know they appeared again in Megaman 7, and you could spell RUSH to unlock the Super Adaptor (one of those weird things where Rush turned into a suit of armour, and you got a homing rocket punch). I don't remember them appearing in other official games, but they might have; fangame creators really seem to like them, though. There were letters in 6 that spelled out BEAT. There was also a pair of Super Adaptors in 6 that got you jet and power armors for beating specific bosses.
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Oct 9, 2022 20:47
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Slaan posted:Holy poo poo, I thought this game was a fever dream thought up by 3 year old preschool me, not an actual thing I played Black Robe posted:Hard same Take it from someone that played that game a lot and knows it wasn't a fever dream: just because it's real it doesn't mean it isn't a fever dream, how do you think the programmer thought the concept?
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Oct 10, 2022 20:27
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I watched my brother and my father playing it a lot but neither of them have any memory of it.
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Oct 10, 2022 23:12
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That stage is sadistic as hell. I'm not sure how you're supposed to beat it without the bubble.
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Oct 11, 2022 02:26
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Drake Man and one more are two of the bosses who I feel are easier with the megabuster rather than their weakness. Bubble Shield is good for the stage but using it against a boss is so awkward.
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Oct 11, 2022 04:38
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Can't you press the fire button to burst the bubble early, and hit Drake Man with the explosion without crashing into him? I seem to remember that being how it worked, but it's been a while since I played this and I could be remembering wrong. I agree that Drake Man buster-only isn't too bad though. He doesn't have a lot of attack patterns and they're very consistent, so once you get the timing down for dodging the falling flames and jumping his fire breath he really can't do anything to you. I'm pretty sure he was one of my preferred candidates to start with, though the level's still a huge pain and you have to return for the secrets later.
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Oct 11, 2022 13:13
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It's interesting to contrast the weapons from this game with mainline Megaman games, especially recent ones like Megaman 10 and 11. In Megaman 10, the weapons are just too weak--they have awkward angles of attack, most of them take up a lot of ammo, and they don't really seem to do enough damage to be worth switching to. In 11, the weapons are much stronger and have better ammo costs, but a lot of them are so similar that it barely matters which one you pick in most situations. The weapons here in Rock&Roll are interesting because if you tried to describe them to somebody, a lot of them would sound bland. Fire Breath, Shield Bubble, and Desert Storm all looked underwhelming at first when their weapon demonstration started. However, the execution of them is so good. Some of them are very strong, some of them are very high utility, a lot of them have very obvious use cases, and a lot of them can be used in different situations to give you different options. That's the sign of good weapon design. You want situations that stand out enough that you think, "Oh hey, this weapon would be perfect" without being a blatantly obvious rock-paper-scissors puzzle of "See object X, use weapon Y." I'm particularly impressed with Shield Bubble so far. It's got the usual Megaman shield aspects, with the protection power dialed up (taking multiple hits) but using it as an offensive tool being made pretty risky (from the look of it), and that added "floating on water" utility is actually getting a lot of use. Floating on water is the kind of utility I love in theory, but usually when you see it, it's used as a one-off gimmick in one particular level and never shows up again. I think you've already used it in two levels, it probably has more uses if you go back to Tide Man's level, and who knows how many places it could pop up in the future. I particularly like how it changes the physics with the whale spouts, that's a really cute detail. I'm a little hesitant about the way that multiple weapons interact with enemies after the fact (Soul Trap turning them into missiles, Fire Breath making them explode) just because those aspects look awkward to use, but they seem like major coolness points if you pull them off and not a "necessary" feature to master. So you can use them for trick shots if you want to or you can just use them normally and still be okay. I like that design decision. Feels like a good way to handle it.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:36
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Oct 12, 2022 23:08
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Yeah, Missile Man is the easiest level and boss IMO, I often start with him. (Edit: this is even taking account for the parachuting death spikes, which are more frightening than they are actually dangerous. You did correctly identify them, though, they are 100% functional death spikes.) I'm not 100% certain, but I think the letter you missed is behind one of the waterfalls near the end of the stage. It's a sneaky one. Also, it might not be a bad idea to try finding the remaining Allies before starting the fortress sequence. Explopyro fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 00:25
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It's pretty astonishing how powerful the bubble shield has been in navigating these stages. You guys have skipped huge chunks of multiple levels using it, it's incredible.
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Oct 13, 2022 00:33
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Oct 14, 2022 23:50
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Having a guy, and specifically that guy, in the boss corridor is actually extremely Mega Man.
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Oct 15, 2022 00:28
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I think my overall feeling is that Ghost Woman's stage is the hardest, too. But there are a bunch of tough ones; I'd honestly forgotten how tight a lot of the timing in Drake Man's stage is, for instance, and that might edge it out. Btw, while you're doing your roundups, you might want to revisit Ghost Woman's stage. There isn't anything progression-related, but there's a secret easter egg that's pretty neat. (Remember the extra life on a spike trap? Get on top of the ledge just past that life using Rush or Beat and go left.) Also, you can use the grinding spot there to get up to 9 lives for the fortress stages. As mentioned, enemies in Fire Man's boss corridor is a reference to the first Megaman game (which Fire Man, of course, is from), where that was a thing that happened.
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Oct 15, 2022 16:25
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The final ally isn't in Tide Man's stage. He's in Reactor Man's stage. You needed the fire breath to melt some blocks to access the area.
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Oct 16, 2022 23:37
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Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 10:12
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The video freeze frames at 19 minutes in Looks like you can stealth it all the way and itd just be hard to do so Is there a reward for it past not having to deal with enemies?
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Oct 18, 2022 11:15
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The hint I can give is that dead enemies can't raise the alarm.
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Oct 18, 2022 11:21
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Rigged Death Trap posted:The video freeze frames at 19 minutes in Oof apologies for the freeze. (on holiday so I can't fix) Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 12:15
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Heh, I saw Dennis himself commented on your video to say quite a few of the things I was going to. (Dagger Man and the mechanics of his sublevel are a reference to the fangame Mega Man: Super Fighting Robot, I can see how they'd feel weird and out of nowhere if you haven't played that.) The dummy Knight Man is beating up looks like Yamato Man; both of them are from MM6. (IIRC Yamato Man's weapon was Knight Man's weakness, hence why he'd be training against him!) There's some really cool stuff coming in the fortress stages and the way they utilise the fact you have two characters, I can't wait to see you guys play through it.
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Oct 18, 2022 23:01
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Natural 20 posted:Oof apologies for the freeze. Instead of fixing it, just run the end credits from Police Squad over the top of it. Then pick up next episode like nothing happened.
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Oct 19, 2022 20:01
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Oct 19, 2022 22:54
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Huh, I wonder how you are supposed to do those sections without your allies. Interesting stuff, the difficulty has jumped noticeably.
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Oct 19, 2022 23:18
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One of the funniest things about this LP is the early discussion about if the penalties for Roll were fair or not. Now it is clearly "they absolutely are not, Roll is incredibly overpowered".
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Oct 19, 2022 23:18
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Gnoman posted:One of the funniest things about this LP is the early discussion about if the penalties for Roll were fair or not. Now it is clearly "they absolutely are not, Roll is incredibly overpowered".
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Oct 20, 2022 05:04
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You mentioned having trouble with diagonals, but don't you have at least two weapons that can aim some? IIRC, the missiles and the soul trap both have some amount of vertical control.
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Oct 20, 2022 16:18
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I can't tell whether I love or hate this game anymore.
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Oct 20, 2022 16:47
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Torrannor posted:Huh, I wonder how you are supposed to do those sections without your allies. Interesting stuff, the difficulty has jumped noticeably. Very simply, you don't.
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Oct 20, 2022 17:41
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Shei-kun posted:If watching these videos has taught me anything, it is that yes, Roll is just OP and they didn't nerf her enough. Which, when you think about it, is hilarious since in most games with similar trade-offs between characters, the balance wouldn't even include Roll taking more damage. But what if we made it so that Roll had a bigger double jump, didn't take extra damage, could autofire in most cardinal directions by holding the shoot button, and had a faster dash? And in exchange, her dash wouldn't fit into 1 tile high gaps? In all seriousness though, I find it interesting that Rock is arguably slightly better in the first 1-2 stages because the charged buster is very powerful when you don't have weapons yet. He needs some sort of edge on actually using the weapons or the ability to charge them for the balance to be remotely even between them.
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Oct 20, 2022 17:45
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Dirk the Average posted:But what if we made it so that Roll had a bigger double jump, didn't take extra damage, could autofire in most cardinal directions by holding the shoot button, and had a faster dash? And in exchange, her dash wouldn't fit into 1 tile high gaps? Cheaper/Chargeable weapons would have been an interesting move. Roll gets the high mobility but weaker weaponry while Rock face tanks his way through things with superior fire power.
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Oct 20, 2022 18:27
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I cannot wait to watch you guys face the boss of this level. 
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Oct 20, 2022 23:51
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Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 02:14
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Fixed, ignore me!
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Oct 22, 2022 02:20
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Now that you've gotten to the piston/crusher section, I can say I remember finding this to be the hardest stage in the game, and my least favourite from a gameplay standpoint. The timing is really tight, I'd say at least a hair too tight; it's definitely doable, but it's not challenging in an interesting way (or a way that feels satisfying to finally pull off), it just kills you a lot and gets frustrating. From a theming/atmosphere standpoint, this stage is great, but the pistons are awful and definitely the low point of the game. The good thing is that the rest of the fortress feels much fairer from here out, if I'm remembering right. (And it's a minor mercy that you get this one out of the way at the beginning; I definitely made sure I replayed a few times until I managed to do it with a decent stock of lives remaining.) I also think it helps a little that if you get frustrated, you can take a break and go do Roll's stage. If you get a game over here, you keep your progress but will start with 2 lives when you continue. (You also don't lose your E tanks or anything, though you won't be able to get them back easily either, so that might be worth keeping in mind.) If you decide to leave and go farm lives, then you'll have to start from the first stage again.
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Oct 22, 2022 03:54
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I downloaded this way back when it first came out, and I kept putting it off, saying I'll play it someday. Now I'm just glad that Nat and Tea are doing it instead. This poo poo makes Mega Man and Bass look like some kiddie game from the 90s.
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Oct 22, 2022 16:09
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This was the hardest level for me, too. I eventually got the boss by stopping trying to attack and just learning the pattern: it's the same every time, with no changes. Once I got into that rhythm, mixing in a few charge shots at the appropriate times wasn't too bad.
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Oct 24, 2022 14:38
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Oct 24, 2022 23:34
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I am impressed that you managed to get the hang of that level to not only get through the difficult portions a second time, but even reach the boss again in no time at all.
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Oct 26, 2022 01:12
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Oct 26, 2022 23:14
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Wow, those were some close calls with the spikes! Roll's level isn't too bad otherwise, though, there's definitely more margin for error than there was in Rock's. The only weakness I know of for the Met Grabber is Soul Trap, though I do ultimately agree it's probably easier to fight it with the (charged) buster.
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Oct 27, 2022 02:53
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