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Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

"
You all live your lives with the awareness of animals. "

Well, yes i am aware of animals is that a sin somehow???

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Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Also, snake is literally this meme, right?

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Jade Rider posted:

He gives me vibes of Mishima from Your Turn To Die, personally.

Yeah the visual designs are remarkably similar, but the personalities are anything but.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

NeoRonTheNeuron posted:

Ignoring Items/Confess and sticking to Run or Act, then the group's in good shape to cooperatively win in 12 rounds.

With 24 spaces to go, everyone will need an average of 2 spaces per turn.

Mouse is self-sufficient. Being able to move as fast as someone else is good enough, especially since Horse moves 3.
Ox is self-sufficient. Being able to follow the leader should be enough since the group should be able to push someone ahead far enough to time everything properly.
Cat is mostly self-sufficient. Dive brings her 8 spaces forward and then either 3 or 4 to the next river. She needs 2 more spaces from her friends to make it to the end.
Rabbit is mostly self-sufficient if the ability is uniformly random. 1, 2, or 3 spaces is an average of 2. If unlucky, he will need a bit of help to reach the end.
Dragon needs serious help since her ability doesn't boost mobility.
Snake will be assumed to need help since his ability remains unknown.
Horse is self-sufficient. Balancing Gallop (3) and Run (1) is all that's needed to let others finish at the same time.
Sheep's ability is unclear, but I think she needs help. If Sweet Sleep stacks exponentially, she's fine. Otherwise, she needs help since it only lets her Run 3 spaces every 2 turns, so she'll be 6 short.
Monkey is self-sufficient, with the ability to Ox/Pig "catch up". Her spare turns will be key, as she spams "Rooster boost".
Rooster needs serious help (from Monkey), but he can spam his 4 move boost to help the group succeed.
Dog is self-sufficient. Rabid Leap should average 2 or more spaces a turn. And if he's ahead, he only needs to Run, so there's no problem then.
Pig is self-sufficient since Loser's Desperation should help get her ahead early. Midway, her pace may slow, but near the end, others will be close enough to the finish line that she can catch up.

To recap, Dragon, Snake, and Rooster are in danger due to their lack of innate mobility. Cat, Rabbit, and Sheep will need a little bit of help. Everyone else is self-sufficient. I think that Monkey and Rooster's boost are the key to ensuring everyone makes it to the end in a timely manner. Monkey will spend most of her turns Rooster boosting, and Rooster will Rooster boost every turn.

Eager to see how it'll all go wrong.

2 corrections:
It's "Tiger", not cat, cat is a separate, special animal in this context.
Mouse's ability stipulates that it "would move the same number of spaces in the same direction as them", which is interesting because that actually means you can go backwards. This is interesting, because that may or may not mean snake's ability is to reverse the direction of someone. I also wonder if rooster accurately reported his ability description as it may or may not allow him to move someone 4 spaces in ANY direction.

Bunny seems to be a counter to dragon, depending on when dragon's ability resolves since she can't predict his movements.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

is that an invitation to vote, or

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

It has to be true:

Let's say we have a pile of 100 coins N of which are heads up. All you have to do is set aside N coins
Now, the amount of heads in the big pile is X, while the amount of heads in the second pile is (N-X), so, for example for N=5 if 2 heads were left in big pile, the the other pile must necessarily have 3.
Now, you flip all coins in the set-aside pile, which means you now have N-(N-X) heads there (since you invert the value), which simplifies to X
since X=X, then for any given amount of heads up coins that isn't greater than 100 or lower than 0 you can do that and get the result.
(for cases where there are 0 heads up coins or 100 heads up coins, you simply divide the pile in half)

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

dervival posted:

oh right, coins can be flipped

Your specific example is also defeated by the wording of the problem - it requires you to start with a "Pile" of coins and no matter how you want to argue, one coin cannot constitute a pile as "pile" inherently implies multiple objects.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

I checked his initial announcement and at no point whatsoever does he say that everyone can remain alive by finishing the race.
What he says is "No, I guarantee that if all of you behave appropriately, every single one of you can leave here alive."
What does "Appropriately" mean? Haha, who the gently caress knows.

He also mentions that " A race fitting for the beasts you are." so i'm guessing that the correct solution is either everyone correctly confessing or somehow overcoming the trial without actually doing the racing.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

NeoRonTheNeuron posted:

Dragon blocks movement for herself, Dog, and Ox.
It's unclear if rooster's forced movement would actually bypass dragon's movement block.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

ZCKaiser posted:


--The Jade Emperor was unwilling to punish Dog for interfering, because they've already been tamed by Dog and it would mean their own death as well.

What kind of an idiot mastermind (excluding mister "My motives are complex") would actually wear a real killer collar? If he needed to fake his death some fake blood and acting could work. Hell, if you wanted realism you could use some sort of a paralyzing agent to ensure you appear properly dead even to cursory scrutiny.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

One hhas to wonder WHY it is voice activated. That only makes sense if tiger can't interact with it by touch and that only works in 2 situations i can think of - either she's blind (but we don't see even the slightest indication of that, do we?) or her hands aren't real somehow and cannot operate such a device. The second option is extra interesting because, say, getting her hands replaced could in fact be a motive to lie in that court case and also explain why she couldn't deal with the strangulation.

Regallion fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Nov 4, 2022

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Cloacamazing! posted:

There's also the option that she can't read I suppose.

Fair enough, although that would be a very unusual thing in a modern setting, especially since she seems to know the language.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

It's a bit unclear on what "Will replace your information with theirs" means.
Does that mean the board will have 2 of an animal? Which order will they go in? If not, then what, do they share moves and the abandoned piece goes immobile? Either way it would be super obvious on who used it.
Second, it doesn't say it replaces your abilities and/or personality, just "Information". If it just...re-skins your tablet that no one else is allowed to look at anyway then what's the point?

That said, i wonder if this trinket is always found or if they need mouse there to find it, clearly snake and dog teams manage to solve their puzzles regardless. Tiger/Dragon probably cannot solve theirs since with 2 people they cannot reach the ceiling.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Ah yes, the last number is written in red, that's probably completely irrelevant.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

So who's willing to guess that the whole thing isn't real? SOMEONE found the safe first and then planted the note. This essentially allows them to setup a way to kill off someone via the conveniently-requested oil while being anonymous. Now, we have an inkling that it can't be Snake (he has no reason in this route), so who could have done this?

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Foxfire_ posted:

I was thinking that, but spooky music while everyone is nominally holding hands is tricky. It's probably something Sheep set up though, she gets a special callout in the ritual along with Monkey, and their BGM plays with ritual discovery

It's called out as not coming from the PA, so most likely wired to the light switch they conveniently chose not to touch before that moment.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Actually, if we assume Rooster is in on it, then this whole setup becomes even more obvious:

First, we have this:

Come, I was just about to check out this classroom.

So HE leads Mouse to that classroom.
Then, he opens the safe by himself...because he already knows the combination.
He's also the one to suggest not turning off the lights AND the one who points out stars and stuff for the ritual including the dang oil.

I think it's safe to say that pig and rooster are absolutely, 200% in on it, and sheep/monkey are sus as gently caress as well.

And how do we know Rooster wasn't just a lucky guesser about oil? by this quote when Mouse finds the oil canister.

quote:

Normally it'd be a lot harder, but this canister had already been opened before. I dipped the bucket in, and before I knew it, it was filled with something.
Already opened before, huh? And Snake, who as we know was a teacher here, is super surprised about the oil being present. How...peculiar.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

I'd argue it's either below the body or somewhere else, that somewhere else being the classroom's closet. We know Snake had a key to it, so one has to wonder if that's where it comes into play.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Sybot posted:

It doesn't really feel like something that one person could set up so easily

It does seem like Pig is also in on it, since it was her clumsy accusation that got Bunny chained.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Well let's go over them:
We can eliminate dog, snake and rooster because we know it isn't their route. Meta-gaming and cheaty but since the game acknowledges the meta elements, not unfair.
This leaves us with Tiger, Sheep and Monkey as our options.
Monkey is unlikely to be the personality for meta reasons, since we know her reaction to the personality reveal.
So, we are down to Tiger vs Sheep and Sheep has been awfully prominent...and kinda pushy. Well let's say Shoop did it.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

TheMaskedReader posted:

I just realized - Confess has literally never come up in any of the routes thus far, which is pretty funny to me! Everyone just going "yeah that's way too risky" and so not bothering with it. LMAO.

It's less "too risky" and more "the plan is for everyone to tie and random movement from confession does not help that"

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Sketchie posted:


Well, it doesn't matter, under the assumption you can only do one thing per round anyway.


We never saw any weird movement by sheep this route so activating a major trinket must either be a free action, or some of them are.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

King of Bleh posted:

"multiple people receive an equal amount of votes" will happen in literally every voting configuration. It's not possible for anyone to be killed under these rules, as written.

It depends on how much formal logic you want to apply. For example, if you define the set "multiple people who received an equal amount of votes" as "People who received votes and the amount of votes is equal", well, no problem there, since any 0s are automatically ignored. Which is clearly what's intended.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Sketchie posted:

You know, it does make me wonder... did Dog potentially lie about how the Prayer Statue works? Not necessarily the entire thing, but maybe he added, changed or omitted something important so he could take advantage of it.

No one confirmed it by reading the note, not even Bunny. So it's plausible.

It was stated that the rules were read out loud, presumably the same way they were for butcher's knife.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Well, let's break it down a bit:
Everyone has to vote for someone alive or for no one at all.
At the end of the round the winner and the number of votes for them is announced.

Now, there are 2 possibilities:
A: the traitors are colluding
B: the traitors are independent (they don't know who the other traitor is)

For possibility B, simply ask everyone to vote randomly. Give them a die or something so they can avoid the bias. It doesn't matter if traitors are biased in this case, since well, everyone else is voting randomly, presumably rerolling if they voted themselves. This gives us a pretty decent chance of the match ending with several 2-way draws and the traitors have no way of breaking this. Works better if you are in a larger group.
For possibility A, you need some additional precautions. Ensure 2 things: only one person goes to vote at a time with everyone else standing outside the room AND everyone always votes is the same but different room. (so if Dog votes in the male toilet, he always votes in the male toilet). This ensures no communication can take place between traitors, by hidden message or otherwise. If someone tries to stall, simple assume they are the traitor and execute them.

It does not appear there is any surefire way to prevent deaths, but at least you can eliminate the traitor's interference.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

quote:

'Pray' cycles will be every 15 minutes instead of 45, and everyone must select a prayer option each cycle or face punishment. Which means there will be 3 'Pray' cycles every 45 minute round.

Nope, voting is compulsory

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

bewilderment posted:

I do kinda wonder what Brian's plan was if the Pray trinket and the Challenge trinket ended up both found.

Did he work out appropriate rules for every trinket combo? Is there an order of operations? Was he just going to rule on the fly?

If you mean the taming whip, then tbh whip probably wins since it pauses the round time which most likely can be considered to pause the pray timer as well.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Well that's one way for bnuuy to shed some sus.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Sketchie posted:



However I am looking forward to seeing how Mouse would react when she finds out that she's a traitor.

I am just gonna assume that the mouse route will most likely be either true route or a precursor to it, that seems reasonable for the meta.
Also "clever" seems like an odd personality to be either winner or loser, although mouse's ability befits a winner personality.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

malkav11 posted:

The previous route did pretty strongly imply the initial statement that it's possible for everyone to survive the death game is true, despite the traitor personalities that have been activated every route so far, and presumably that is the "true path". How that's possible...well. That is the rub.

Assuming we know who has what personality and there are only 2 traitors, sheep clothing + any other personality-removing trinket would suffice.
Or really, any effect that allows the second traitor to live, be it a personality change, an outright immunity to execution or a 1-use collar removal tool, would all work.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

ApplesandOranges posted:

I might be wrong but I don't think that helps Monkey specifically in this case; everyone else heard the code too, so if it's a Minor Trinket that's of no help to Monkey. It has to be a code for a Major Trinket that can help Monkey get Pig to the finish line. Maybe Pig can't use it herself.

Speaking of, I was rereading Rooster's route and he drops the 'chaos and darkness of the race' line there, too. Which means he probably helped Monkey input her code at some point during that route and she had already started her machinations. Probably didn't go insane enough to go 'haha let's get everyone dead' but she clearly had a hand in kicking Rooster off his spree.

Pig took 2 trinkets off Mouse, so she would presumably ALSO use one, meaning she gets to move at least 2 spaces with that move.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

i am going to guess that either the man he killed is actually turbo relevant or his daughter was involved in the case somehow.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Presumably if you found every single minor trinket you probably could?

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Mouse seems unusually dumb here, since this specific pairing can thwart Oxs plan - all they need to do on the minor trinket turn is to make mouse hitch a ride while rooster encourages her. This leaves him last, while giving mouse +3 to her movement AND depriving the group of 2 squares of movement at the same time, meaning that depending on what round that happens on, chances are this wil result in mouse being number 1, rooster being last and everyone else biting the big one.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Yeah, give it to Rooster

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Trust Tiger
Tbh if we hadn't done the snake route first i would be more inclined not to, but we know she's both illiterate and that snake is a traitor in this pairing, so there really is no reason to suspect her, at absolute worst it would be self-defence.
The obvious questions are:
1. WHY would she want to check that out? Was it a natural thing or was her attention directed by a noise or a "Helpful suggestion"?
2. It's not really possible to hit yourself on the back of the head, so SOMEBODY had to do that, even if you assume tiger murdered dragon. If we assume it as Dragon, then it's self-defence. If we say it's someone else, that makes it possible that Tiger wasn't the killer.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Oh i don't doubt that Tiger had a hand in killing Dragon, but that was absolutely orchestrated by snake.

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

Well at least now we know why Tiger's here, did someone tally up the motives for people being here? I think of the routes we saw only horse had no clear connection as of yet?

Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

ApplesandOranges posted:

Good to know you're still trash, Gerry.

While we know there is a better way and have a benefit of unlimited lives, his behavior is perfectly reasonable - tiger already proved herself capable of performing murder based solely on emotions (snake) and as such having her around is basically risking death for no real reason, that way he ensures that she won't just get angry and bash someone's head against the wall. He did use a nasty trick to do it, but well, justified under the circumstances.

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Regallion
Nov 11, 2012

So i'm guessing the way this route works is that if you fail, ox finds out who the poisoner is, kills them, drinks their blood and dies, because lol, lmao the toxin is funky like that.
If you find out enough you essentially go "lol, look at this idiot who fixed the trial on corrupt orders" and he decides to die which saves his life.

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