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This isn't killing credit cards, it's just creating Credit Card 2.0 modernizing the network. It's about time, it happened to checks over 10 years ago.
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Sep 26, 2022 23:23
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Twibbit posted:Would also for good and ill end the ability of Credit card providers being able to essentially Veto who gets to do business online. I mostly view that as a positive though I am sure there are examples of them killing at least one type of shittyess before. In the sense banks would do it instead but no other changes, sure.
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Sep 26, 2022 23:49
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LorneReams posted:This isn't killing credit cards, it's just creating Credit Card 2.0 modernizing the network. It's about time, it happened to checks over 10 years ago. Having worked for banks and in finance the software these systems are built on are brittle as hell. Not having to deal with ACH would make writing new finance software a lot faster.
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Sep 26, 2022 23:52
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syntaxrigger posted:Having worked for banks and in finance the software these systems are built on are brittle as hell. Not having to deal with ACH would make writing new finance software a lot faster. I work with financial software including check and you are absolutely right. It's also terrifying how afraid to upgrade banks and credit unions are. There's still a good chunk on Server 2008 and some on 2003.
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Sep 27, 2022 00:00
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LorneReams posted:This isn't killing credit cards, it's just creating Credit Card 2.0 modernizing the network. It's about time, it happened to checks over 10 years ago. and yet checks still exist (in the US). also as someone who responsibly used/treated my secure/student CC as a DC and thus started adult life with a technically good/great score , I dont like CCs dying? (even though the above line says they wont die)
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Sep 27, 2022 00:37
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Medullah posted:I work with financial software including check and you are absolutely right. It's also terrifying how afraid to upgrade banks and credit unions are. There's still a good chunk on Server 2008 and some on 2003. I did some temp work in the IT department of a credit union in 2017, they didn't have a ticket system, they just had that one IT guy that got emails about everything what needed fixing. I didn't stick around long, whole place was a mess.
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Sep 27, 2022 00:42
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PhazonLink posted:and yet checks still exist (in the US). CC's themselves probably won't fully die. But, the expensive perks/cashback/rewards around them most likely will. If your credit card becomes functionally the same as a debit card, except that you can float some money for a month, then they will lose a lot of the reason for using them. The entire thing that enables all the 2% to 5% cashback on all your credit card purchases is that it is subsidized by the swipe fees all the merchants are paying. The credit card companies want to give you reasons to use your card as much as possible, so they essentially give you a tiny cut of the swipe fees to encourage you to do so. That rationale kind of collapses when there are no fee options. The banks are also going to use this payment system to set up "buy now, pay later" features that you can use, which will function similarly to the credit part of credit cards, now that they have cut out Visa and Mastercard. The availability of those features will also cut against credit card usage. They will still exist in some form, but the companies that are exclusively credit card companies (like AmEx) are going to get hit very hard if this becomes widespread, because there will not be any functional reason to use a credit card over your bank's BNPL system and merchants will strongly prefer that you not. Part of the reason there is such a large perks/rewards system around credit cards in the U.S. that you don't see in other countries is that under Obama the credit card reform bill they passed severely restricted debit card swipe fees. That basically killed rewards checking/debit cards and most banks/payment processors made huge pushes into incentivizing people to use credit cards because that was where they still could get big swipe fees. If this does see wide adoption, then the golden age of credit card rewards and benefits (that was built on the backs of merchants) will have only lasted about 20 years. Credit cards weren't nearly as ubiquitous as they are now because there wasn't much reason to use them over a debit card in the 90's and early 2000's. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 00:55
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Many cards have been stripping away the benefits (like extended warranties) already, and USAA recently eliminated the competitive cashback rate on my most-used card. They’ve also been dividing rewards into ever-more-narrow categories.
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Sep 27, 2022 00:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:CC's themselves probably won't fully die. But, the expensive perks/cashback/rewards around them most likely will. If your credit card becomes functionally the same as a debit card, except that you can float some money for a month, then they will lose a lot of the reason for using them. The entire thing that enables all the 2% to 5% cashback on all your credit card purchases is that it is subsidized by the swipe fees all the merchants are paying. The credit card companies want to give you reasons to use your card as much as possible, so they essentially give you a tiny cut of the swipe fees to encourage you to do so. That rationale kind of collapses when there are no fee options. here's the problem (and it has been the same problem for every single "replace credit cards to cut down on fees!"): why do i, the guy getting 1-5% back by paying with my credit card and have all those fraud protections, pay with your bank thing instead? so given that i'm not moving from my cc to the bank thing, why are you, the merchant, going to stop paying the CC fee?
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Sep 27, 2022 01:04
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evilweasel posted:here's the problem (and it has been the same problem for every single "replace credit cards to cut down on fees!"): why do i, the guy getting 1-5% back by paying with my credit card and have all those fraud protections, pay with your bank thing instead? According to FT, JPMorgan Chase is going to partner with retailers (who desperately want to get everyone to stop using CCs), use their market share to push adoption, and wind down their credit card rewards and business. Who knows how successful that will be? Chase also thinks that other major banks are going to get in on the idea by 2025 and go through the same process of pushing adoption, shuttering their credit card divisions, and trying to box out Visa. But, Dimon has already said the goal is to get the credit card revenue down to $0 by taking over the payment processor role. They are already winding down the benefits of their major perk card, the Chase Sapphire Reserve, and implementing caps on perks and sign-on bonuses.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:09
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:According to FT, JPMorgan Chase is going to partner with retailers (who desperately want to get everyone to stop using CCs), use their market share to push adoption, and wind down their credit card rewards and business. Who knows how successful that will be? Love to see the free market at work
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Sep 27, 2022 01:10
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Mastercard and Visa are not going to allow this to happen, unless they are part of the transition.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:12
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LorneReams posted:Mastercard and Visa are not going to allow this to happen, unless they are part of the transition. Both of them have bought up FinTechs to get a presence that space if that is the future. For example… https://fintechmagazine.com/digital-payments/visa-buys-payments-fintech-currencycloud-usdollar962mn
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Sep 27, 2022 01:16
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LorneReams posted:Mastercard and Visa are not going to allow this to happen, unless they are part of the transition. That is sort of the wild card. It's not really clear what they can do to stop the banks from developing that technology. If they really try to pull something dramatic, then it will probably end up having to be decided through the courts or legislation, like the credit card bill under Obama, and you have Visa + Mastercard vs. Amazon/Wal-Mart/major retailers and big banks lobbying for a legislative solution. Visa and the payment processors lost on that one last time.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:17
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arent "buy now, pay later" systems going through a reckoning right now? I heard several npr reports over the weeks and months about the sudden pandemic rise to BNPL, and then various stresses/cracks in the industry as a decent number of people either "default" or various banks that finance those systems see bad numbers that predict these people will not infact pay(fully) later
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Sep 27, 2022 01:27
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Merchants are still going to need to accept Visa/MC if they want to accept payment from international customers and banks are still going to have to offer Visa/MC options for international commerce and for Americans traveling abroad. You'll never get most of the world's banks to upgrade to some new unified system. Hell, banks here in Japan just recently started to push debit as a pretty universal option. My bank didn't even offer a debit card until 2019.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:43
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Dick Trauma posted:https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1574222109659856901?s=20&t=7hMUVz6q0vDmWFubVoV9dQ https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1574494476596396064?s=20&t=Xhv6jgZKvpH8nA3P4D7RYg EDIT: It's hard for me to believe that this is real. Everything about it seems so immensely stupid. Dick Trauma fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 02:12
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evilweasel posted:here's the problem (and it has been the same problem for every single "replace credit cards to cut down on fees!"): why do i, the guy getting 1-5% back by paying with my credit card and have all those fraud protections, pay with your bank thing instead? 2) Merchant is now picking from: - support credit cards, pay big fees on credit transactions - support instant payment, pay small fees on those transactions - support cash, have to deal with handling cash If most people have instant payment capability, merchants can drop credit without having to go to full cash-only. The customer has no reason to avoid credit, but the merchant does, and if most people are still capable of electronic payments using what they already have in their wallet, it probably doesn't lose many sales.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:23
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Dick Trauma posted:https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1574494476596396064?s=20&t=Xhv6jgZKvpH8nA3P4D7RYg He then referred to a veggie tray as crudités, a phrase that I had literally never heard before. Later he filmed himself working out at the Dallas Cowboy training compound for reasons that aren't really clear. So, yeah, I absolutely believe that Oz is pulling in beloved Georgian Newt Gingrich to attack Fetterman on his Johnny Cash tattoo.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:38
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since we're talking about banking, didnt one of the bills Biden signed actual try to help the unbanked by maybe starting a postal banking service??
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Sep 27, 2022 02:47
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PhazonLink posted:since we're talking about banking, didnt one of the bills Biden signed actual try to help the unbanked by maybe starting a postal banking service?? They funded a pilot program for various financial services (bill pay, check cashing, cashing in savings bonds, wire services, and free ATMs) at some post offices. It's not a checking account/actual postal banking. The Fed has said they are looking into options to provide free banking and a digital dollar, but those are just research and, even if they do end up happening, won't be for a while.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:57
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Dick Trauma posted:https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1574494476596396064?s=20&t=Xhv6jgZKvpH8nA3P4D7RYg i was morbidly curious and looked up the free beacon article. this is the excerpt of all the material covering his "ties" to the crips quote:During his first mayoral run in 2005, Fetterman adopted the slogan "Vote John Mayor of Braddocc," a nod to the spelling that local Crips gang members used for the town. After he was elected, Fetterman created the website Braddocc.com as part of a revitalization project to appeal to young people in the dilapidated steel town. The now-defunct website, which Fetterman launched with his own money, explains that "Braddocc" was "unofficially renamed" by the "young and disenfranchised for its Crip allegiance." The Justice Department considers the Crips, founded in southern California in the 1970s, to be one of the country’s most violent street gangs. i'm kind of disappointed he's not actually a member or affiliate of the crips
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Sep 27, 2022 03:44
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semi-related the USPS gotta set up banking
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Sep 27, 2022 10:04
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Somebody in a previous incarnation of this thread did a little write up that concluded (if I remember correctly) that the costs of those rewards programs filter to the merchant and then to the customer... so if you're not utilizing credit card rewards you're "paying for them" in a sense. Since I don't care to spend money I don't have, keep track of debt and payments, or hell spend money at all full stop, I will be glad if credit cards die. They seem to thematically and materially prop up our consumerism and our tendencies to establish portfolios of debt anyway.
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Sep 27, 2022 12:31
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The attorney general of Texas and his wife who is a state senator are both attempting to flee the state in their white bronco in order to avoid being served a subpoena.
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Sep 27, 2022 12:45
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:The attorney general of Texas and his wife who is a state senator are both attempting to flee the state in their white bronco in order to avoid being served a subpoena. Link?
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Sep 27, 2022 12:59
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Link? https://www.texastribune.org/2022/0..._source=twitter
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Sep 27, 2022 13:13
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:The attorney general of Texas and his wife who is a state senator are both attempting to flee the state in their white bronco in order to avoid being served a subpoena. Man we’re bringing everything 90s back, but with a woke twist.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:30
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lol quote:Disclosure: Chevrolet has been a financial supporter of The Texas Tribune, a nonprofit, nonpartisan news organization that is funded in part by donations from members, foundations and corporate sponsors. Financial supporters play no role in the Tribune’s journalism.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:17
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:According to FT, JPMorgan Chase is going to partner with retailers (who desperately want to get everyone to stop using CCs), use their market share to push adoption, and wind down their credit card rewards and business. Who knows how successful that will be? Chase also thinks that other major banks are going to get in on the idea by 2025 and go through the same process of pushing adoption, shuttering their credit card divisions, and trying to box out Visa. Unless Chase gets every other country in the world to adopt this particular system, credit cards aren't going away. That's going to be particularly difficult in countries that already have a system that performs this function just fine, which includes most U.S. trading partners.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:17
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That plan that Biden announced at the Detroit Auto Show earlier this month to providing EV charging stations along every major highway in 38 states by 2024 has apparently expanded from $900 million to $1.5 billion and covers all 50 states now. I'm guessing Hawaii, Alaska, and Idaho were doing a lot of whining. https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1574752267718328321
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Sep 27, 2022 14:31
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That plan that Biden announced at the Detroit Auto Show earlier this month to providing EV charging stations along every major highway in 38 states by 2024 has apparently expanded from $900 million to $1.5 billion and covers all 50 states now. As an insufferable EV driver, this pleases me! More charging infra will make long-haul trip planning so much easier. Tesla has good coverage, but I need a $300 adapter to use their friggen nonstandard plugs.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:55
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Online advertising companies are apparently the greatest marketers (of themselves) and the worst marketers (of their client's products) in the history of industry. After the reveal that Uber was paying several billion dollars to online advertisers and only realized that they never saw any return when they accidentally shut down all online advertising, it looks like there is a similar thing going for podcasts. Online advertisers have worked with podcasters to set-up "auto-downloading" episode programs in various mobile apps that count as unique users. Podcasts then use that very high figure to partner with online advertisers and reach out to companies to charge them for ads that will reach "millions of listeners," even if nobody is actually listening. https://twitter.com/ashleyrcarman/status/1574776483171946497 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 16:35
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Adpocalypse has been a slow rolling disaster for online content creation since 2017, unfortunately. VC startup money low-key patronizing your favorite podcasts, video essayists, and 60 second skit comedians has been great for viewers but not so great for the startups.
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Sep 27, 2022 16:44
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I'm ready for a post-content world
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Sep 27, 2022 17:53
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Tibalt posted:Adpocalypse has been a slow rolling disaster for online content creation since 2017, unfortunately. VC startup money low-key patronizing your favorite podcasts, video essayists, and 60 second skit comedians has been great for viewers but not so great for the startups. Yeah, it's becoming increasingly clear that all that tracking and targeting ad-tech stuff doesn't actually add any value to the process and the only thing those dollars are buying is the ire of customers and privacy advocates. But nobody's willing to be the first to cut their losses and go back to using less cutting-edge stuff than the other guy, so the investor money keeps flowing and our browsers keep throwing away more and more of what's served to them.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:08
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Online advertising companies are apparently the greatest marketers (of themselves) and the worst marketers (of their client's products) in the history of industry. This is basically in the same vein as all of Facebook's ad engagement numbers being basically totally made up isn't it?
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Sep 27, 2022 18:30
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rscott posted:This is basically in the same vein as all of Facebook's ad engagement numbers being basically totally made up isn't it? Similar, except basically every large podcast network is in on it. But, big companies that rely heavily on brand awareness (with the exception of Uber) all seem to realize that they don't know what the impact of online advertising is, but are all too scared to be "the one" who stops doing it and gets buried. So, it's become like a weird cost of doing business to just throw away a certain amount of your company's money as an insurance policy. It's weird that online marketing companies are so good at marketing themselves to major companies, but don't seem to have any success marketing their client's products. Like credit card rewards programs, a lot of the stuff we enjoy online is basically subsidized by huge amounts of internet ad money. If people finally start pulling back on that, it is going to lead to a bunch of weird situations for content providers that rely on ad-revenue (which is already falling).
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Sep 27, 2022 18:39
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From a content creator perspective (as observed by an outsider) it seems that moving away from slaving away for The Algorithm and producing content that you enjoy and patrons will support directly seems to be a much more fulfilling life. The bad is that there doesn't seem to be nearly as much money from Viewers Like You, and certainly not enough to maintain the lifestyle of everyone whose currently making a living from content creation. But, that might change if not supporting creators meant you don't get whatever niche entertainment you enjoy.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:43
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Tibalt posted:From a content creator perspective (as observed by an outsider) it seems that moving away from slaving away for The Algorithm and producing content that you enjoy and patrons will support directly seems to be a much more fulfilling life. I think it will be less content creators being able to make stuff - there's too many folks that are just scraping by right now to afford it. I'm pledging $3 on Pateron right now, and that's pretty much all I can afford.
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Sep 27, 2022 19:35
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