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Jesus gently caress the state of match-making in Unranked is dire. You'd think they'd *try* to serve up even matches but it's so utterly transparent that it's serving up 'expected wins' and 'expected losses'. The real enemy is not the enemy team, it's your tank who holds W from spawn until dead and doesn't even realise that they have a team. It's the Anas with 5K damage and 600 heals, and you know those were just when a teammate walked between them and the enemy.
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Oct 20, 2022 13:21
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I'm swinging around to the idea that DPS is potentially the most impactful role, at least in poo poo tier. I've been mostly flex queueing and getting support 95% of the time, and it's great being able to keep your team up... until they get overexcited after a team fight win, trickle to the enemy spawn door and die one at a time while you try to keep at least some of them alive and spam GROUP UP! GROUP UP! Or go and flank but never, ever pull back until they die and then repeat. And tank is cool for controlling the flow of the game... until it isn't because no matter where you play from your team is only 2/5 doing their roles and you aren't getting heals. But DPS, you just put your crosshair on the enemy DPS and you kill them, and then you put your crosshair on the enemy heals and you kill them, and then you kill the tank, and then your team wanders vaguely objectivewise uncontested. I mean, obviously I'm downplaying the team contribution. But in the worst case scenario it's literally like they're nothing but ult charge for the enemy team. And that's all too frequent.
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Oct 22, 2022 08:37
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I've been playing a fair bit of Sojourn and she is ludicrously OP. Also the scoreboard is good but I'm really annoyed that they've still kept the choice to obfuscate stats as much as possible. Getting any game info about the game you *just played* is awful, to the extent that you even can.
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Oct 23, 2022 03:18
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Where's all the Roadhog mains? Am I an old out-of-touch geezer for playing him? He's still OK but he's just getting heavily overshadowed by the S tier tanks because really, when you can get that kind of advantage you'd be crazy not to. IMO. Like when playing against him it's pretty clear that he's just this waddling sack of survivability.
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Oct 23, 2022 13:20
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Jack Trades posted:Why did they make Earthshatter an instant kill? It's... not? E: it does 250 if you're like point blank, but that's like *point blank* like the hammer has to actually land on you. Which, if you have a Rein in that range, you're not likely to be happy anyway SadisTech fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Oct 23, 2022 |
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Oct 23, 2022 15:04
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Jack Trades posted:250 is an instakill on everything that isn't a tank and it has 2m radius. looked it up, so the actual 250 hp range on it is 1.75m reinhardt's base hammer swing is 5m in game I'm not too concerned by this change
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Oct 23, 2022 16:07
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Scoreboard numbers can also be very open to misinterpretation by the dumb because they don't realise that roles are highly interdependent. DPS Moiras bitching about outdamaging both DPS when they haven't been healing so their team just dies while they fade around, sucking slowly, not realising that most of their already mediocre healing number is just on themselves.
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Oct 24, 2022 05:55
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Dick Jones posted:Does the damage stat in OW2 still mean "hero damage" like it did in OW1, or did they revert it to "general damage inflicted on all things including barriers and summoned objects"? I'm fairly sure that barriers don't count from a number of games where I've been the only one shooting at Sigma and Rein shields when the enemy team has been really disciplined at positioning behind them. If they did count my damage number would have been through the roof. It was not.
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Oct 25, 2022 02:03
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it doesn't matter tbh, even in role select qp you get a *lot* of healers who are just taking the quick queue time and playing bad dps.
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Oct 25, 2022 07:41
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Veryslightlymad posted:The game gets strictly worse every time they mess around with roles and their definitions. I still remember assault/defense and while I think those were bad definitions for what they excelled at, I think they had a fair distinction. The roles also screws with characters like Brigitte and Doomfist. Yeah, like... I've been playing a fair bit of DPS lately and I've been getting some flak from the other DPS/tank for their having higher damage numbers. While I have way more elims. It's like... what do you think that implies man? Do you even scoreboard
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Oct 25, 2022 22:14
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OK, so, Bastion unsupported is pretty bad now that his healing has been taken away. If he doesn't have a team to play with he's insta dead. Bastion with even minimal healing from behind a decent tank is going to just make QP unplayable.
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Oct 26, 2022 13:33
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Bastion is making QP miserable because there's one on every team and they're either completely useless and a liability or getting all the resources thrown behind them to push a stomp. It's a character that simply shouldn't exist in unorganised gameplay. Or at all.
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Oct 27, 2022 12:39
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comedyblissoption posted:bastion is a character like widow where if every member of your team doesn't respect what they can do and plays cover you'll get owned lol I only engage with this game in QP now and that's where he's a real issue. I'm not saying "Bastion is OP", I'm saying Bastion is *poo poo design* because he sucks as a character in disorganised play, but everyone wants to play the robot minigun. So that is an absolute null spot on most teams that are doing their QP thing. He also, however, has the ability to burst down any tank in the game if he has a team vaguely supporting him with heals and cover. So that means that matches where that happens aren't even vaguely balanced any more, because people walk out solo in front of him, try to shoot him a couple of times, and then die. And they keep doing that over and over and over because they're trained to QP level where you just straggle into most team fights and it doesn't really matter and sorta heal your tank when they need it, and cover what's that? He sucks to have in the game either way.
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Oct 27, 2022 14:16
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Grey Fox posted:i like that every bastion post is "do x and your team..." This!
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Oct 27, 2022 23:15
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BabyRyoga posted:If Bastion is so strong that you need your entire team to outplay him in order to win, maybe you should just spam pick him and dominate games until the internal MMR ranks you up high enough to be out of games where players are so bad that Bastion is oppressive. You aren't reading what I'm saying, which is not "Bastion is OP", it's "Bastion can break QP in a way no other character does". Slam picking him isn't a win guarantee, unless your team mates go "Oh better play around the Bastion pick" in which case the map becomes a walkover. SadisTech fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Oct 28, 2022 |
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Oct 28, 2022 00:23
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but overwatch gave me a 3D modelled slice of pizza! for free! I don't even know what you do with the "souvenirs". Like do they display in-game somehow? What even are they?
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Oct 30, 2022 01:26
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Aphrodite posted:Are players not allowed to change heroes in OWL, or just don't because there's no need to? Far from expert here, but often the pro teams have a pretty fixed strategy and comp in mind and will play to that instead of moment to moment counter picking. They do change around a bit but again, it's often part of their already laid plan.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:40
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Veryslightlymad posted:I've discovered a paradox with Widow. The better I play, the worse my actual games go. If I do too well, and block the whole team for a few minutes, I get endlessly dove by multiple guys, and lose. If I do just sort of ok but pick the supports here or there, then I will win. Yeah people *hate* an even moderately competent Widow, to the extent that they will come and sit on your face and throw the match while your team stand on the objective in extreme cases. Hey at least you're serving a purpose!
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Nov 4, 2022 23:34
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lol open queue is such garbage. which team has players who are willing to stack the most tanks? ok you win. oh your team mates are locked into sitting on Sombra and Widow into Zarya/Sigma/Winston? welp
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Nov 5, 2022 01:59
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Good god I've been having a bad time in quick play for the last several days. I'm getting consistently incredibly bottom of the barrel team mates - like genuinely new players who are confused about what the game even is. Tanks who won't press W, healers who won't heal, DPS who can't do damage. Just this absolute string of game after game after game of the enemy team taking the map with relative ease and on a number of occasions even offering apologies specifically to me because I was the only player putting up any sort of fight. I don't understand what the hell is going on - I think I've won maybe 1 in 5 or 6 matches for my last several evenings of play.
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Nov 12, 2022 07:21
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So, tonight I queued tank which I don't really play much at all... got like 8/10 wins where it felt like I was carrying pretty hard, then hit a brick wall again and lost several with healers that weren't and dps that weren't. Got to say though, Zarya  the complaints are real
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Nov 12, 2022 14:34
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Just found out that Blizzard deliberately broke the API that all the stats tracker sites used so the only way to see anything is the utterly limp stuff implemented in-game. They *really* don't want people getting a calibrated idea of their own, team mates or opponents skill levels.
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Nov 13, 2022 13:38
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Cpt_Obvious posted:So a single player has a such a massive impact on the game because of how powerfulmt their character is and if he sucks and or blows their equivalent out of the water it's going to have a much bigger impact on team balance. I honestly think it's more a variance in DPS skill level. Just had a Bastion who had 0 kills, 15 deaths. Every fight he would walk out in front of the enemy team, transform and die. Then said right at the end, "wat does my ult do"
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Nov 14, 2022 05:45
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I have to say that I'm almost leaning towards removing the scoreboard again as a design feature. It's just raw numbers that can be totally misleading to people who don't know what the hell they're looking at in a game of moving parts like this. Like you can have a match where both healers are just dumping everything they have into a Roadhog who is just standing in front of the enemy team and eating damage and not hitting hooks and spamming chip damage everywhere without getting meaningful kills. So the DPS just get the poo poo owned out of them and can't put up numbers. "DPS diff"
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Nov 14, 2022 06:47
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Rick posted:One of the worst ults (although the ult broke the game so they had to take him out for a while). Auto loss unless the other team is really bad. Pretty close but I'd put it "auto loss unless your own team is willing to play entirely around your damage dumps and then potentially pretty good actually, although good luck ever getting that to happen unless you're in a pre-organised stack" Mindblast posted:And his regular gun feels weird despite it being super precise idk what is up with that. It's because it's slow firing but relatively hard hitting so you have to have your crosshair lined up on the rhythm of "bang-bang-bang-bang" on moving targets instead of being a much faster cycle like something like Soldier or much slower precise shots like other hitscan. If you're trying to track a Pharah who's good at movement you can be lucky to hit every second round. SadisTech fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 10:19
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Been getting a bit of Stylosa content in recommendations lately and, uh... am I wrong or is he just not very good for a 'pro' Like i'm not going to say I'm better than he is but I'm also not claiming to be or offering coaching tips
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Nov 15, 2022 05:44
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What about a support ability like some sort of nano-bomb that set up a zone of light team healing and light enemy healing reduction? Like ana nade but over time instead of splash AOE. They could get a lot more interesting with stuff than they currently are.
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Nov 18, 2022 01:13
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so here's something interesting: I have my primary/secondary fire keys swapped for Mei so LMB is icicle, and after the patch doing that has also swapped build/cancel on Ice Wall which made the game I just had on her very confusing indeed. Doesn't look like there's any way to swap it back, either.
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Nov 18, 2022 07:13
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Uninstalled. I might revisit down the track but it's just awful, awful poo poo. I don't want to play ranked and there is no point to playing quick play. Won 2 total games tonight in 6 hours of play - both were absolute walkovers where the enemy team basically didn't exist. Then queued some heals and had tanks that simply would not contest unless they were staggered and then would happily run in and die solo. When the team was back up, they felt that they had to hang back with us for moral support. I'm talking Orisas and Zaryas with 3 kills for an entire match. And so, so many Doomfists, for god knows what reason. So, so many. So then I queued tank for a couple, and had DPS who could not do damage in every match. So then I queued DPS and it was back to tanks and heals simply not knowing what this game is. Lots of Widows on the enemy team and I would watch my healers and other dps stand out in the open and die, and not learn from this that standing out in the open was a non optimal move so they would do it for the entire match. Then the tank would walk out by themself and try to contest the objective and get pasted in seconds and then say "dps diff" or "heal diff" or both. The opposing teams ranged from minimally coordinated, which was all they needed, to death stomp machines who must have been stacked. Of course, there is no way to tell from the interface any more - that's hidden like anything else that might give you information about *why* the match is going the way it is. There is no pretence of matchmaking balance in this game. There is no semblance of anything approaching a worthwhile time on any of the classes while they're grouping such hugely disparate skill levels. I don't know why this seems to cut against me 80% of the time - I know that I'm the common factor but I *cannot control my team mates* and they are the feeding, slampicking characters that they can't play and never, ever changing and vacantly holding W problem most of the time. I know when I gently caress up and kick myself for it and try to do better but the games that I'm getting handed are just utterly crazily bad. I don't understand how this system can do what it's doing.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:39
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Jack Trades posted:I hate how the "Group Up" command randomly says the opposite of what you want it to say. It's not random, it's contextual for where you're looking. If you're looking at a teammate in front of your you'll say you're going to group up with them or whatever. Look at the ground or a wall if you want to use it to tell people to wait. I reinstalled and have been playing a bunch. The matchmaking is still very very uneven but I've managed to capture a more Zen approach to the streakiness somehow. Sojourn is utterly busted as gently caress and I've been exploiting that more than is reasonable so I get punished every time I try to play a fuckaround hero. Ah well.
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Dec 9, 2022 16:44
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Crazy in that they're going full sicko mode instead of a more measured "this pays my bills so I have to hedge my bets" kind of way, I'm very much here for it. Like Flats is one of the chillest dudes streaming OW2 and he had a bit of a rant just yesterday. A measured rant but highly, highly on point. And while his issues don't really impinge on the majority of the player base in terms of the high level balance, they kind of do in general. Matchmaking is absolutely ham-handedly busted in comp, let alone quick play. I know people go  It's quickplay dumbass, but it's the way that most of the casual players that Blizzard wants to keep and monetise interact with the game. And it's deeply unhealthy at the moment. However they've balanced it makes it super streaky. I have literally had the full game report history full of grey DEFEAT and then a string of seven or eight green VICTORY tags. And a vanishingly small number of those games were fun, engaging matches. They were like a football team kicking toddlers to one end of the map. Sometimes you're the footballer, sometimes you're the toddler. And it's largely outside of your control.Just play better and you can swing a game! Well, yes, you can, but you'd have to be so much better than everyone else in the lobby when you're on DPS or heals and your tank literally has 2 - 23 by the end of the match and your whole team is ignoring chat and trickling solo in different directions into the blender. Or you're on tank and your healers both have sub 1K heals and one of them is playing Kiriko and never suzus anyone but themselves and your other one is a Moira who has never been anywhere but way, way in front of you and everything that has come out of her all match has been purple. Skill is very largely irrelevant in the face of most of these matches. It's incredibly weird and I don't think it can be working as intended.
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Dec 12, 2022 13:43
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Rick posted:I wonder what the Ramattra change will be? The thing I am having trouble with is how short the shield lasts and how long the cooldown is. . Well and also I'm instantly murdered whenever I do the ult but that is probably on me. Ramattra isn't bad, he just doesn't play as advertised. I've had a fair bit of success with just hugging a corner, saving shield for when the opponents are pressuring, and saving nemesis form for when they actually make a big push. If we're the ones pushing in its almost better to stick in his default form and try to focus down their squishies with his deceptively high dps. Because the real power of nemesis form isn't the punch; although that can be a nice finisher on things, I find it's better to use opportunistically if shield is up or they're in a nice line - it's the insane damage reduction on block. As long as they're all in front of you you can't die if you have a single support looking at you now and then.
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Dec 13, 2022 03:23
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Pattonesque posted:people absolutely love this poo poo. I've seen Symmetras and Moiras try peek duels with Widows and Hanzos Statistically, most Widows are Not Good so it's often a shock when people get up against one who is Good. The real question is why they do it again. Often several times
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Dec 15, 2022 05:33
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I found a really interesting video that talks about the streaky matchmaking and to my mind absolutely explains it to a T. This guy is not a good presenter at all, which is a shame, as his message is really on point about how the system probably works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taf5iAhszRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBeqo9o-I-s TLDR: Every indication is that Blizzard don't look at actual win and loss rates to estimate how good you are, they look at your individual performance on the hero you're playing against all other people playing that hero, and they weight particular stats very, very strongly. This estimation of your performance level is separate to your actual MMR. If your performance in those stats is better than where your current MMR has you pegged, you get put into a queue weighted to give you easy wins to elevate your MMR to where it 'should' be based on their estimation of your performance. If your performance in those stats is worse than where your current MMR has you pegged, you get put into a queue weighted to give you very difficult games to win to lower your MMR to where it 'should' be based on their estimation of your performance. However, this adjustment trails your actual performance so it's difficult to correlate with what you just did to cause it. And it's also self-reinforcing because it's very hard to generate good performance stats in the unfavourably weighted games, and in the favourably weighted games you're competing against other people for those stats. The biggest single stat appears to be deaths. Die less and your skill estimation goes way up. Damage dealt is another big one, especially solo damage dealt. Eliminations not so much. Another one appears to be using your abilities as much as possible, so holding your cooldowns for long periods of time if there's no good opportunity for them or no need to because your fights are all won without them will actually penalise your estimated skill. Using your ult as many times as possible and getting at least one kill will drive your skill estimate up, while sitting on it waiting for a good opportunity can hurt you. In other words, if you are learning a new hero or playing something you're unfamiliar with for fun, or have a match where you're just taking it easy, you will probably have your MMR estimation get adjusted downwards, and get put into queues to push you towards that level. If you are playing to win matches and making risky plays where you get lots of progress on the objective, but die for it, you'll get penalised. In other words Blizzard are so far away from using an actual ELO type system that your estimated skill level may as well be entirely divorced from the apparent goals of the game. If you lose every single match but play to never die, use your abilities on cooldown and do a bunch of damage, the matchmaking algorithm will think that you're a god. Makes me go "hmmm".
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Dec 17, 2022 09:17
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dogstile posted:The matchmaker will never be advanced enough to feed you into guaranteed loss or win games, while also doing it for the other 9 players in your lobby. I don't think anything is guaranteed but I do observe that it's exceptionally common to get a string of many matches back-to-back where there are literal new players, or disabled players, or heavily sedated players on one team, where a staggered Ana will run solo into the enemy team, throw a nade into a shield and then die, where the tank slams DVa and then does nothing but walk at the enemy team, hold DM until it runs out, explode, die, repeat on respawn. Where the comms are non existent or toxic, where any sort of working team comp is a fantasy because people just pick whatever and die over and over and over. Then strings of matches back-to-back where the complete reverse happens and your team feels like a team of footballers kicking toddlers to the opposite end of a field. If this was down to random chance matches wouldn't be distributed the way they are. There is something algorithmic causing this to happen. It's not 100%, no, but it's very, very plain. And I have a feeling that there is something which causes it to happen a lot for some people - such as myself - and not much at all for some people. At a guess it's people who play the game more seriously and in an organised way get pegged to their level a lot more consistently, don't experiment with characters much, have much more consistent team play. The videos I posted above provide a pretty good explanation for what I am seeing. I am not alone in seeing this exact phenomenon - far from it.
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Dec 18, 2022 10:46
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dogstile posted:Nah, the ow1 matchmaker was chucked down to something very simple, which was a basic 25 up/down with the occasional couple extra points. So, I'd like to know exactly what you're saying - is it that you don't believe that this very clear and distinct pattern of many chained stomp matches in one direction and the other is occurring at all, or that you believe it's occurring but it's just normal matchmaking and to be expected? If the first, well, there's not much I can say to that other than "It is occurring" and if it's the second, can you elaborate on how it's normal for things to work this way? Like do you think that it just happens to be the way that stuff works out randomly? Do you really think that? E: I will add that this is happening against the background of Blizzard deliberately taking away match history (clears every game restart) and obscuring the match scoreboard so you can only see your own stats, and that for a limited window. You'd literally need to be screenshotting every match result to keep a comprehensive record. SadisTech fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 12:33
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May as well be talking to a brick wall
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Dec 18, 2022 13:51
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fire time doesn't just arbitrarily exist and is based on a combination of other stats per period of time though, so sure, superficially this statement can be correct but you still need to look at what the other contributing stats are
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Dec 20, 2022 04:40
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I mean I literally saw people get toxic in Snowball Fight
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Dec 20, 2022 04:55
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so this was my most recent competitive match in a game that is nominally supposed to give even matches. This is the 5th game in a row that was very similar to this in outcome. In 3 of the previous ones I had around 12-15 kills to maybe 8-10 deaths. In one of them my entire team had 0 kills *for the match* There was nothing at all that I could do to leverage the game against an enemy team that were doing what they were roughly supposed to be doing and in some cases were doing it like a well oiled machine. In 3 of these games there was a tank who was not able to do anything other than walk forward, often into door frames and walls until they realised they weren't moving and negotiated their way through carefully. In at least 2 of them there were slampick Anas who were not able to hit shots unless you stood very still quite near to them. In one instance the Ana side stepped me when I did this in order to keep shooting (and missing) at the enemy team. 
SadisTech fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 13:07
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