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I'm trying to get back into this game after being away for years and I have to say I am just frustrated at some of the bone headed decisions blizz continues to make when there are other games that directly compete with it that do things better. Especially the ranked scene. You can't add or group with friends easily, its a few menus away and takes you all the way out of a game. You can't leave little notes on profiles. Its a separate UI to send a message, and by default you appear offline to others so that just compounds finding buds to shoot folks with. Why in 2022 are these things not squared away with this company, the same company that basically designed friend lists and match making in WoW a decade ago. Its like they don't WANT you to remember and find new people to play with. You have to hope you can remember who they were in the last few games you had and thats it. I would have thought this would have been THE THING to fix since it was a huge problem in OW1. Then we go onto the stats thing. The idea of medals was always a boneheaded thing, and the introduction of stats are also super useful. But why stop there? Why can't we see damage done to tanks, to shields, all that stuff? Even if it is right after the game, that stuff can be really helpful on figuring out what works well and what doesn't. Blizzard seems so afraid of stepping on toes (whos toes, I don't know) that they hamper the ability of gamers to actually see what is going on. We still have the same toxicity about healing numbers, damage, etc. but that still doesn't tell the whole story. Either keep it all hidden away or show it all, it'll go a lot further to end the bickering than giving half a story. They have created such a great IP here but when it comes to executing with some of these things, they are just making a toxicity machine where its better to turn off comms than use them. Other games don't really seem to have this problem to this degree but OW does and I think its because of the way Blizzard approaches transparency to players and because of the potential length of matches. Why even have an all chat? Why not force folks into a voice comm in competitive if thats something folks get toxic about? You require phone numbers but not microphones for competitive play? At least the mic can be useful and relevant to gameplay. Why isn't the voice chat/team chat HUD on the regular tab menu instead of two clicks away to social tab? Maybe I"m just upset after a rough session, I don't know. I just feel so let down after coming back to this game to find it just as toxic and unbalanced as before. I love the IP but it kills me to get so irritated after a few games. I don't feel this way after other competitive games, it just seems to be Overwatch. Ooof i could go off on a whole thing about their balancing issues too, just such bone headed decisions. OK logging back in thanks for reading.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:48
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Been gettin' more into the game and am knocking on the door of Diamond. Something about this game is just such a contrast of extremes. Its so satisfying to click heads and win a team fight and get the job done. On the other side its just absolutely infuriating to lose games in boneheaded ways or deal with the community in any fashion. Queuing up again. Moira chat: That character should be removed from the game or totally re-worked. Some of Blizzards design and balance decisions truly baffle me if their goal is to make a competitive FPS type game. See also Baptiste and Widowmaker.
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Oct 21, 2022 13:54
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Quotey posted:snipers suck! no fun to play against in any game. get em out. This. Since the dawn of FPS snipers have never ever EVER been fun to play against. In many games they have taken steps to make it a bit more dynamic like in TF2 they had to really charge their shot and you could see their laser sight. In other competitive games they will balance them with limited ammo, big recoil, slower move speed, and other "negatives" to reward a player that can handle them. But in this game they took all of the most hated aspects of snipers and dialed them up to 11. Gave the sniper mobility, walls, a proximity mine, no recoil, the same health as other characters, and an ultra mobile grappling hook. Its like they said "what have players raged about over the last 2 decades of FPS, yeah lets put all of that in this game". Its just unfun. I know exactly what i'd do to balance it out but It'll be a huge wall of text for each character, but the way widow is in this game now is garbage. Always has been. Countblanc posted:I'm not actually sure what I'm supposed to be seeing there, especially with bap WHy does a support character do more dps than dps characters by just holding down lmb? And why would any competitive game have any invulnerability mechanic EVER first of all, but have it not be an ultimate second of all. I know they were trying to make the game more dynamic and exciting for support players, but in a game already rife with ways to avoid dying, mitigate damage, and negate the shooting of enemies, this one is way too far imo. At the least Bap himself shouldn't be effected by it. Gravitas Shortfall posted:Moira is not a problem at all in OWL though. Good thing none of us here are playing OWL right?
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Oct 21, 2022 14:21
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Jack Trades posted:Moira is really bad at higher levels in fact. I was referring to Baptiste. But at least all the other characters have to aim. I saw a video once comparing high dps weapons in Apex and one CLEARLY Did way way more dps on paper, but the average player missed a good 30% of shots, so the lower dps weapon actually was more effective. That is what we have with Moira. She should just debilitate and slow enemies, not do damage to them, or do way way way less damage. Just a boneheaded character concept imo.
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Oct 21, 2022 14:35
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headcase posted:I think its fine if some heros are easier to play and more common at lower ELO. They are an aim check for people trying to play aiming heros. The only people mad about this are people that feel bad about their SR because they want to aim and are bad at it. I couldn't care less about their feelings. Shoot Moira in her head. No if i ever die to a lock on non-aim hero they should be immediately banned. That is what we call BALANCE, my friend. Scholtz posted:I keep trying out, and my gameplay is good, but when it comes to the written exam I freeze up and can't think of enough slurs to put down so I always fail. Another bone headed issue with Blizzard, using open ended essay questions instead of tried and true bubble scantron sheets. Ugh. I appreciate the 5v5 in OW2, but i think it has inadvertently, or maybe very verdantly, given tank play even more power than before. Games are won and lost with tank play now, if you have a bad tank that wants to brawl with the enemy tank instead of make space, unless you're a tier or two above the enemy team, you're going to lose. And there isn't really a way to effectively communicate that in this game since as before, incomplete stats give players bigger or smaller egos that may not actually reflect the goal of the match. I don't know a solution to this, its just something I'm seeing as I get into Diamond. Tank play wins or loses games a large percentage of the time, bar none.
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Oct 21, 2022 16:23
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One thing i will say is i cannot believe they released Doomfist in the state he is in right now. Every game i've played has been an insta lose for whichever team had a Doomfist on it. Even if you're the best DF you just cannot disrupt the way other characters can. I don't understand why they thought this was OK.
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Oct 21, 2022 18:15
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F.D. Signifier posted:What did they do to buff Widow so hard? I feel like last time I played OW1 she was barely a factor because she was so bad. Are you The F.D. Signifier that makes the kick rear end youtube stuff? And they did give her a bit more HP from OW1 but otherwise nothing else. I just think snipers have always been the least fun to play against, bar none. I think that issue is exacerbated in a team based objective focused game where eliminations really do matter. Being able to just eliminate 1/5th of the enemy team every 3 to 10 seconds is extremely powerful and can change the entire dynamic of a game. Few heroes in this game require a complete retooling of a team than a competent Widowmaker. Its just not fun to play against and there isnt' much room for counter play, it forces other players to play their role better than the widow has to play theirs which is, in my view, inherently unbalanced and unfun. Also in the ranks i play in, which aren't particularly high I don't think, every character can aim and is a Problem in their role. All things being equal i'd rather have super good enemy players that aren't safely able to ninja away from retaliation for free. Vermain posted:widowmaker is hilariously weak and an almost universal deadweight if you're not a ten year veteran AWPer. this is especially the case in the newest maps which are, by and large, a collection of winding, interconnected rooms and short hallways that are god loving awful to try and snipe down Regardless of your stance on heroes like Widow, the new maps are definitely not that. All of the new maps have a ton of sight lines and flanking routes specifically designed for flanking sniper shots. I think one new asepct of the new maps is that they actually do have high platforms you can stand on instead of sliding off ala Havana and Kings Row. Plus she can always just grapple straight up anyway with no recoil or issues there.
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Oct 21, 2022 22:30
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Just Chamber posted:Widow sucks and in a game that's supposed to be about teamwork I genuinely can't understand the thinking of putting a hero into a game that has one thing they can do, what they can do is unfun to play against, and they are encouraged to play miles away from their team. Apart from Blizzard just being lazy and thinking well we have to have a sniper in the game. Preach F.D. Signifier posted:lol no Awww dang here i was hoping i met one of my favorite content creators.
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Oct 21, 2022 23:03
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As I'm getting into higher ranks and logging more hours on the game its becoming more and more obvious that there are some balance issues with the roles. Tanks just have too much damage mitigation and supports put out too much damage for the amount they can heal. I get that they kinda have to do that to make the game accessible so its not just a deathmatch every time, but it can be downright unfun to see abilities and good plays by folks negated by just massive hit point pools or in some cases, just completely deleting damage done. I'm hoping they do another balance pass with the re addition of torb and bastion, but I'm not thinking so. Bastion is just..kinda there. One thing is for sure though is that Open Queue is straight up calvinball when it comes to strategy. Its just tanks tanks and also perhaps another tank. Essentially over 1000 total hp balls slamming in to each other again and again. Which can be fun, for sure, but calling it competitive is a stretch. The main reason i play comp over quick is because I like to actually play all of a map. Is there a game mode that has roles, is unranked, but also has the competitive format for rounds?
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Oct 26, 2022 18:15
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I think the reason folks stuggle with stomps and the game gets so toxic is because its so poorly balanced on top of being opaque on stats on top of locking folks into losing situations. In other team based sports, folks can get really good at a role and excel in it, and sometimes the 1 on 1 duels, you just get toasted and the team has to compensate. That isn't really possible in Overwatch in many situations. You're locked into a role and if your team isn't willing to adjust as needed, even if you're technically better or technically worse, it may not actually matter. That is a lovely feeling even if its not accurate. Throw wonky abilities and very limited stats with literally NO feedback from the game, yeah its a recipe for toxicity. Shoot even games like League of Legends and Dota allow you to kinda see the stats afterward or allow you abilities and stuff to maybe compensate for a weakness. In Overwatch unless the entire team adjusts or you have someone just head and shoulders above the others, you can be locked into a loss (or a win!)and you'll be unable to see why. I really do not understand their reasoning on hiding all of the stats and giving no after-match stats information. Its just so weird to me, like are they TRYING to make the game worse on purpose?
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Nov 14, 2022 17:24
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Jack Trades posted:The fact that they're waiting for 2 weeks before deploying a patch is loving stupid and defeats the whole point of a GaaS game. Also this. "We know certain characters are very unbalanced and unfair, but please keep playing a game knowing that any semblance of balance and maintenance is secondary to us keeping a schedule".
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Nov 14, 2022 17:42
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:This is not true at all, Doom is very bottom tier of the tanks and Zayra is the very top. For the doom to be comparable they'd have to be a much better player. This. Just like in other team sports, a lot of the time the difference is forcing the other team to perform much much better than your own, and the imbalances in overwatch make this less a player skill thing and more a character kit thing - the mark of bad balance.
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Nov 14, 2022 18:44
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comedyblissoption posted:yes the doomfist player is a more skilled player in the example, but they are just as powerful as a teammate as the less skilled zarya b/c they are both plat 4. Yeah but a bad Zarya is more useful than a bad Doomfist. You're right, competence is WAY more important than composition always. But a C- Zarya in a B+ team is better htan a B+ doomfist on that same team.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:19
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dogstile posted:I feel like any level it really doesn't matter. Person is x good at y character, forcing them off it would make them worse, they've clearly already played against all the other characters to get to that point. Oh no, I absolutely agree. If you have a head and shoulders above Genji and she's just annihilating them, she can carry a game...so long as other folks help them out with healing and diving and/or don't immediately die themselves. But i think that is kind of the problem, in that scenario, Pro Tier Genji is likely to draw a lot of flak for not changing or making the team lose, even though it wouldn't even require other hero swaps, just playstyle adjustments. What I'm saying is, its a mess, and folks are less likely to make those adjustments because they often get incomplete information both during and after games on top of strangely balanced characters.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:57
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I think a worthwhile question that can be answered regardless of your stance on the Great SR Conspiracy is why is it so opaque. It just doesn't make any sense. I don't think its so much of them trying to be conspiratorial jerks to gently caress over players, I think its just a complete lack of awareness of what makes competitive games like this work. We see it also in their patch and update structure and communication. Blizzard CLEARLY has all the data from damage per second, to averages, to accuracy, to times abilities used, heat maps...everything. What is the benefit to the community by keeping as much information as hidden as possible? I don't mean so we can have streamers crunch every number or screenshot,though I'm sure they would, but just to the general operation of a match. Why is it better i DON'T know how many shields our bastion is shooting? Why is it better I DON'T know how much anti heal Ana has done? Why don't I have access to this information even after the match? I think the toxicity argument fails pretty hard since players will be toxic no matter what for the most part, but I think there is an argument that only giving SOME of the information actually breeds MORE toxicity. I couldn't imagine any sport or esport where one stat is visible and the only one that is counted. Like saying a QB sucks because they got sacked without looking at all the other factors that go into a play which are to differing degrees in and out of their own control. This is compounded by the fact that we have these roles and/or open queues that put players into boxes they would otherwise not like to be in with no guarantee their strengths will synergize well with the rest of the people in their roles. Everything about this situation just screams to me that more transparency is better in these rigid situations, not less. If folks are going to scream at someone for a role, give them the information to make it useful instead of just encouraging players to write it off and decide to play in toxic or suboptimal ways. An easy way to put "these are the top 3 heroes I like" and bam there ya go, at a glance you can see what you got on your team, no need for second guessing or searching profiles or any of that. This extends outside of the gameplay too. Why would profiles have the option of being visible during a match? Just make them either fully accessible like you would in a professional sport or make them only visible when outside of a game, because as it is now it just becomes yet another avenue for players to be toxic to one another without any justification. Why would my preferred character not be visible for others to see prior to the game? Why not have that impact the queues I get put into, with accepting a longer queue time if I'm really wanting to play my one hero? We've all been in a situation where folks on our team want to play the same hero, someone gets bumped off into a less-than-good hero and the team suffers. Why not just let folks opt not to queue or at least de-prioritize getting matched up with those players who select the same hero? Why is there such a thing as all-chat? What does that do other than breed toxicity and sniping at each other? If someone needs reported just let any reports be known globally, done. Easy. No need for all this extra wall of opaqueness. As it is, they could make some really really easy changes to this with some transparency and more player focused changes to the way the game is presented and played and it would do wonders to improve all of this Conspiracy Chat surrounding match making, MRR, and rankings. It would go a long way towards making the game less toxic as well as just a better gameplay experience for everyone. They have the data, they just choose not to share it which is just crazy to me. Which does bring me to another question I just thought of, is it official blizzard policy ( or any other big company that does MMOs, really) to ban things like damage meters in World of Warcraft and such? Its somewhat related to this, I think.
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Dec 19, 2022 22:38
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comedyblissoption posted:stats don't matter in an individual match even if you could see them. 0% of people on ladder are going to use the shield damage stat of their bastion teammate in a productive way. Its still a useful way to learn about what works vs what doesn't work. It would also be useful to the rest of the team if you're legitimately trying to win, see the bastion has all shield damage and maybe say "hey lets focus on breaking the shield, the bastion has been trying to do it by themself". Little things prioritizing who/what to shoot like that can do wonders. Its certainly better than the whole buncha nothin' we have right now. It just boggles my mind that blizz has shown they have these stats and details and just intentionally don't share them with the player base. BabyRyoga posted:For the purpose of matchmaking, the stat that matters is fire time (which is a combination of all other stats to some extent), I think. The rest don't really mean too much, in theory. If you are getting a lot of fire time, that's when the game is like HOLD UP, THIS MOTHERFUCKER IS POPPIN OFF, and tries to propel you to (within the limitations of the system) a higher rank. Firetime is mostly bullshit the way it was implemented though, even if its a lot of fun. As a pharah or widow you can easily get "on fire" if you just stand on the payload despite not doing what you're supposed to be doing, which is shooting the enemy team. Same for a tank who shields up on the point instead of blocking a choke point. Firetime WOULD be useful if it was like kill streaking or accuracy or clutch kills/heals or the like. Again, blizz has shown they have the ability to do this with the "sharpshooter" or "life saver" little messages that pop up. But they hide it and take it away for some reason. I think folks will be toxic no matter what, game mode or not to a certain extent. I think folks become LESS toxic if they can see transparently what is happening instead of seeing Low Number or Bad Metal and then argue about that. The less loose strands of nonsense to give players to glom onto with imperfect information, the better.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:38
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There are so many balance and design decisions that I am just at a loss for some of them. A lot are probably my partiality towards or against certain characters, but its crazy that some of these things haven't been done yet. Why do you start defenders at the far spawn in these cart push maps? What benefit is there to having someone who picks their hero late be super duper far away? Just have them spawn on the first point for defenders and they can spawn further back when they die? A lot of games have had their whole dynamic changed because a tank didn't decide fast enough and now they gotta hustle across the whole map when they could just spawn at the first point and be done. Once the game starts, THEN open up the far spawn. Just a pitfall they create to push players into and it makes no sense. Why does push mode exist? Why can't players decide which map types they would like to play? Why are so many stats so opaque and hidden from the players? We know they have the data like heat maps and mitigation stats, why hide that stuff? Going invulnerable should be a huge deal but Blizz's response to any kind of balance challenge anymore is to just "meh, make em immoral/invulnerable/ethereal" instead of mitigation or movement stuff. The amount of just negation that can be done is one o the things that makes the game a bit unfun a lot of times. Their whole philosophy was "favor the shooter" when the game first came out, but they hid the massive asterisks of "unless they use any number of literal get out of jail free abilities we have implemented". Particularly egregious is how long suzu lasts on the invuln, as well as immortality field and moira's dash that can literally traverse vertically an entire flight of stairs without stairs. Just silly stuff. Snippers have never been fun to play against since they were a thing in like 1994. Since then balancing against them has been a struggle with, in my view, the best iteration being TF2. Immobile, have to hold it down, your reticle is counterable, and there are a bunch of tools to mess with a snipers ability to just delete folks. A high skill player will still have fun, but opponents have plenty of alternatives to deal with them. You see other methods to reign them in with varying degrees of success like in CS:GO making the AWP expensive and restrictive, in Apex they are very rare and have bullet drop, small clip, high reload etc. What did Blizz do? Lets give her literally zero recoil, allow her to fly into the air to silently change their angle, give her wall hacks (without enemy notification on top of that!) as an ultimate, and give her nearly unlimited range with almost zero counter play from that distance. I just do not understand how they thought this would be fun and the inclusion of this character has likely made other design decisions suffer. Snippers have always been fun to play AS but never to play AGAINST and forcing that type of character into the game was just boneheaded and this change to Widow should have been this way from the get go. Her entire kit should be reworked. It reminds of how Cassidy (then McCree) could Fan the Hammer and delete literally every character from the game, including tanks, from like 50 meters away, and they had to reduce his damage and falloff. Its like...did you guys even play test this before release? Also in relation to that, how did they think an auto aiming, 10 meter away, ONE HUNDRED THIRTY DAMAGE GRENADE would be a balance improvement over a flashbang? That is basically awarding two free shots to a Cassidy by virtue of pressing the tactical button. I've seen that thing go around corners, just ridiculous stuff. I know the game isn't going to be perfect and its not always going to be balanced in a way EVERYONE likes. There just seems to be this very intentional..i dunno, ignoring, maybe? Of serious quality of life and balance aspects of the game that a company like Blizz should really know better how to handle. It makes me sad because the characters and world are really cool and they have just drove it directly into the ground due to their greed and mismanagement.
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Jun 13, 2023 13:25
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dogstile posted:I agree with most of your post, but this is wrong. Widow gives an ult callout when she activates this (which is heard no matter where you are on the map) and it lasts for about 15 seconds, so if you hear it you just look at your clock and add 15. Not if you are dead, have other ults going off, or sometimes it just doesn't go off. It should be a constant reminder, maybe a haze around the enemy team screen so they know widow can see them. Several times throughout the life of this game I've died to a widow wondering how she saw me when it turns out she ulted when I died or just as i got shot and i didn't know upon respawn she could see me coming through the flank routes and she domes me. This is actually a problem for a bunch of ults (cassidy, moira), but its more pronounced with widow because hers is actually quieter, lasts longer than others, and you have no way of knowing when its over.
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Jun 13, 2023 15:04
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dogstile posted:I dunno, i think its just a practice thing. But then again in the elo i'm in people straight up just call it if they're trying to win, so you catch it anyway. This defense of "I have to actively relay information that should be readily available to my team mates" isn't as strong a defense as you think it is lol. leftist heap posted:This mfer said Snippers What is wrong with using snipper riffles?
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Jun 13, 2023 15:40
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dogstile posted:It is readily available. The reason i know about the information is because its there. Ranked has people sleepwalking and you have to reinforce it, but that's not a problem with the game not communicating, that's a problem with the player. Nah I"m saying that if you are dead, you don't get the voiceline sometimes. Like if your'e watching the kill cam something, or if multiple people ult at once, you can miss the widow voiceline. There should be a visual indicator that the can see everyone so that folks know instead of having to be alive or have silence in order to hear it 15 seconds ago. It isn't that the sound mixing is particularly bad or something, its more that this seems to be a glitch or relatively common circumstance. You can hear the ults of a lot of other characters, even when they are passively going off, but not widows which is just really stupid and unbalancing.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:46
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dogstile posted:Nah gently caress that healings overtuned as poo poo. A good post. Its so unsatisfying to outshoot someone but OH WELL LOL I CAN TELEPORT/GO INVULN/DASH/SHIELD AND NEGATE EVERYTHING YOU JUST DID while the characters that tend to be able to do that have no such abilities. Its just not fun because what these abilities do is force the skill floor higher for the dps while considerably dropping it for the support and tank characters in a lot of situations. Thats why distracting the team as discussed works so well. You don't have to necessarily outshoot or position the enemy, you just have to survive long enough to get the favorable match up, which on a strategic level makes a lot of sense, but the floor required to do that is kind of trivialized when your E abilities are to just negate what the enemy team is doing. The balance in the game has always been wonky and I would love to redesign a lot of things, but hey, I'm not the developer. But seriously. SERIOUSLY. How did the Cassidy grenade get out of the first stage of playtesting. It goes over 40 meters away, latches on to enemies, and does as much damage as a headshot from close range to enemies. Are you loving kidding me? Just bring back the old flash bang, it was lame, but it was a helluva lot better than whatever the gently caress they are doing with him now.
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Jul 21, 2023 22:50
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Opioid posted:My most played character is Mercy with 200 something hours which I’m sure is nothing compared to others. Here is a list of things to try that skilled players do to easily kill me. This is dumb. It requires the enemy to "empty a clip" with close to 100% accuracy. Even 80% accuracy, WHICH IS PRETTY GOOD, isn't enough to kill a 200 hp supp hero. Mercy has some of the fastest move speed in the game, doesn't have to even look where she's going, and can change direction on a dime. Its not impossible to do so, everyone has got a mercy elim, but this is precisely what I and others are talking about. It requires enemies to play like two levels higher vs a mercy who just hits their dash every few seconds. The skill floor for a value-add mercy is just way way lower in many circumstances. In all your examples it requires the enemy to perform exceptionally or else you can just flit away and literally everything they did is almost useless except maybe the ult charge they gained on shooting you.
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Jul 23, 2023 06:05
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Jack Trades posted:Moira literally can't do anything to stop Mercy from rezzing. It's incredibly frustrating. I mean that kinda makes sense. Moira is a selfish hero that can heal and teleport herself away, sometimes even gaining height and stuff. So her not having a stun, yeah fair. Hashy posted:There isn't a hero that cant obliterate a mercy on command with 80% accuracy The critique is that Mercy has to have 0% accuracy to be effective, and game changing, while the others have to have accuracy, and consistent accuracy. 100% accuracy with shots 5 seconds apart does nothing. I think the mention above from someone that just having so much healing is probably the root cause of so many of the frustration and struggles.
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Jul 23, 2023 23:49
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dogstile posted:If you look at the top500 for dps its all mostly pharah and echo (unless that's changed in the last week) because those characters are also overtuned to poo poo, hitscan isn't really strong enough against them. I play Pharah into Masters and have since release, and i would actually argue she's undertuned lol. She is extremely reliant on her team to really be effective. The game is really about break points and timing more than it is about anything else as discussed earlier. If I 100% acc rockets into you, but they are 3 seconds apart, all I've done is build supp ult charge. If they 1 second apart I'm a Goddess of the Skies and am absolutely Bullshit according to the lobby. Literally one flick of a defense matrix/suzu/negating ability can be the difference between a team wipe and a dead Pharah, it really is that touchy. And I think thats dumb as hell. It shouldn't be that twitchy and it is only that twitchy because there are so many ways to just negate accurate shooting/good positioning with the creep of invulnerability actions.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:15
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Was hoping they had added a bunch of QoL updates to this game, but they still haven't. Why do defense players not just spawn on the first capture point on Payload maps? Why make late joiners run all the way from the far spawn at the start of the game? All that does is hamstring players if they don't IMMEDIATELY pick a character. Defense should just spawn on the first point at the start of the game, how stupid that it isn't like that. Also mapchat: you shouldn't be forced to play maps you don't like, or map TYPES you don't like. If the community all likes Payload, then let them play Payload. It genuinely feels like a chore to play maps you don't like just to get to the ones you do, which ultimately leads to people just not wanting to queue. So many bone headed decisions in this game that actively chase away players.
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Oct 30, 2023 16:00
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Rawrbomb posted:Part of me feels like this is designed to help you learn the map flow. Though, I think their starting spawn pre game is too far away for most maps. But it does help you understand how far away from the fight you're going to be most often. It does suck for late fillers, but ideally the game didn't start that way. Remember, all games more or less emulate comp, which would make these changes all but useless there. How would it be more useless in comp? If you're having a team discussion on who to be, you have to slam pick it pretty quick or you're just automatically late to the fight. That should never be the case. They have the little directional lines that show you which way the map goes. There is no need to spawn at the initial spawn on defense in any game mode. Think Junkertown, even if you pick before the timer is up, you're not getting to the fight for a good 15 seconds. Its really stupid. Games are won or lost on this alone and I can't believe it even launched that way. And as for queue times, who cares. Its less fun for me and probably my team mates if im stuck in a map mode i dislike, am not interested in, or as that other poster mentioned, if I end up quitting. Let us either vote on maps, or select a preferred game type so we can play what we WANt to play not what we HAVE to play. The argument about queue times seems a bit short sighted. If you have a longer queue time and you really wanna play, you'll add more maps or game modes to the queue you want to play. If you don't care about queue times, you'll stick around. People that want to get into a game quickly will get into a game quickly. Javik the Seer fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 16:36
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Rawrbomb posted:Unless you have an atrocious computer, you get time to pick a character before you spawn in. This is normally where you'd chat up about comp, before the map is open to you. Then you still have 30-40 seconds post character pick to navigate around the map and get familiar with it. Even if you were right about 30-40 seconds, which you aren't, it isn't that much time, its literally half that time spent running in straight lines to the front lines. LIterally half the set up time is spent running to the fight up front. That is ridiculous and could easily be changed by having folks get spawned right on the point or have some kind of speed buff pre-match that ends 3 seconds before the fight. So many solutions that make the gaming experience better in this threads last few pages that this small indie company just can't handle. Jack Trades posted:Let me at least ban a limited selection of maps. And yeah, at least let me ban certain game modes or maps. I never want to play flashpoint again. Ever and I shouldn't be penalized for getting it and not wanting to play it.
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Oct 30, 2023 16:59
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Rawrbomb posted:You literatly get 30 seconds to pick a character, BEFORE you can spawn into the map. What about my statement is incorrect? You get 25 seconds to pick, then i think generally 45 seconds before match start. This assumes you are right there, ready to go. A lot of maps can take 20 seconds to get into position and thats huge. SO REALLY you have about 45 seconds or so. Thats if no one changes their character, leaves, etc. The easy and simple solution is to just remove the possibility of staggaring and have folks spawn on the defense point until the attackers spawn opens. This seems like such a unilaterally good thing that solves so many issues while providing no downside, i don't know why folks are arguing against it. And flashpoint sucks because the maps are huge and take forever.
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Oct 30, 2023 18:21
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Inept posted:also lol at the cass nerf I mean..yeah. The existence of that grenade as it exists right now is just incredibly game breaking and stupid. I genuinely can't believe how some of these changes to the heroes made it out of play testing. A fuckin grenade that goes dozens of meters and literally goes around corners to stick to enemies, disabling them and doing the damage of a headshot? Seriously? Bring back the flashbang, this nerf isn't enough. Also the zen nerf same thing. Why should you get free walls for 3 seconds just because you pressed shift and threw a discord orb. It should break immediately upon line of sight and be a much more high focus ability instead of just throwing it out for free constantly. Still no QoL improvements like having a visual cue if you have vision on yourself, spawning at the first point for match start, or even seeing the got drat scoreboard after a match. SMH MY HEAD.
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Oct 31, 2023 21:39
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Rawrbomb posted:Demand? No, but I'd really like to understand why they don't like flashpoint. I've had some luck turning some people around on it, once I understood their complaints and helped to reframe them. Will that work for everyone? No, but I enjoy the crap out of this game, and want to see others find that same joy that I do. The point isn't about having potato computers its that they are creating loss scenarios where one doesn't need to exist. I"m still struggling to see what the downside is to allowing folks to select characters and spawn on the point so long as the attacker doors haven't opened. More times than I would like to think, but it does happen, someone makes some character selections, then they see the attackers and want to change OR they feel a different comp would work better after some discussion, they gotta run aaaalll the way back and spawn and run aaaaalll the way to defend again. ITs silly. Just cut that out and let us get right to the fun in a more fair and accessible way. A lot of the things folks talk about in this thread, on the blizz forums, reddit, whatever are small changes that they could actually test and try out. They just refuse to do it and its maddening to me. I think this is at the core of the Activision/Blizzard rot. They have (or had) the ability to do small QoL changes, experiment, be flexible and revert what doesn't work and playtest stuff. But they, like your arguments, seem to have just folded their arms and said "eh, thats too much effort, lets just keep it this lovely way and just charge folks for the privilege". Its dumb and frustrating because its whats killing their IP over and over again. Just an absolute refusal to be proactive and responsive to changes in the industry and what folks want. I know this is just a discussion on the stupid spawn thing, but its also pervasive throughout the entire game design of both this and their others, and its killing what could otherwise be a lot of fun and future focused IP's.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:22
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Also lmao at the apologetics for "normal $20 skins". Get outta town, YOU'RE the problem with what I posted above. Stop giving them money for no effort imo. Its all become normalized because of your actions.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:23
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I think its funny that the most popular modes seem to be the ones where people are playing the game LESS. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but it just seems strange the biggest draw to play more OW2 is playing less OW2 per sitting. Also I called the passive heal thing out like 2 years ago and I'm glad they have taken my expert balancing advice. It became SUPER DUPER clear that passive healing should be on everyone once they added it to supports in that changeover. Its the dumbest poo poo to have players limp around for minutes at a time, waiting for that selfish/bad/greifing/tunnel visioned healer to heal the low HP dps or even other support that is pinned down. You could literally sway entire matches by doing a bad job at support on purpose and leaving your team at 10% hp until they can all safely get healthpacks. Adding the passive is as much an anti greifing measure as it is to make the game actually function. I'm actually really surprised at all the hate for this change, I would have thought it'd be a huge boon to the community.
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Jan 15, 2024 17:27
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dogstile posted:Its getting negative feedback because they tried hard to push the competitive aspect of this game and its just another change in a long line of changes that feels anti competitive. I think that is 100% true, the healing is WAY over tuned. But this isn't that. If anything the self healing on supports is over tuned as it is now. What they're adding to everyone is a small version of that specifically designed to work between fights and be less reliant on clutch support plays and/or greifing plays from supp players who aren't on their A game. But the general idea of healing being too much in this game is 100% spot on.
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Jan 15, 2024 17:35
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Herstory Begins Now posted:there's too much healing in the game but also this new addition of somehow even more healing is good? how does that reasoning work Between fights can sometimes matter more than during fights. If you're say, a Cassidy or Genji and you're in prime position to flank, but you can't engage because you're at 20 HP and the mercy is tied to the hip of the respawning or out of position Rein, then yeah, it absolutely matters. It means they are down a flanker for the entire fight because of what happened between them. Instead, now the flankers or stragglers can actually afford to contribute instead of being boxed out, afraid to move, or in higher level play, just camped because the enemy KNOWS you need to get a health pack and they can just guard that route. Same for folks who get chip damaged on the way out of spawn. Its actually quite effective to widow or ashe poke someone from a distance, not kill them, but hurt them enough that a savvy team knows they will be entering a fight with 50% HP. This forces the support to perform well and top off, something they may not be good enough or care enough to do. Now they can just limp their way to the front line and not have to waste healing resources on them just to participate. Seriously, if this was implemented seasons ago when they brought them out the first time, I think we'd see a lot better dynamics in the games and maybe even some nerfs to the healing going on. They DO need to nerf the healing from supps though as it is, it shouldn't be anywhere near it is now for anyone. It should be like a full 3 to 5 seconds instead of the short time it is now.
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Jan 16, 2024 05:37
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Herstory Begins Now posted:if you have time to regen at 2hp/s you have time to grab a health pack, it's truly irrelevant between fights. if you're so out of position that they can just camp the health packs the play is to just die and reset and extremely not to hide at 20hp. hell in really any situation where your team lost the fight and you're at 20 hp you should just die to reset. if you're out of position at 20 hp and you don't die before you'd just stagger and give 20hp of ult charge, with this change you'd now stagger and also give 200hp of ult charge lol What are you talking about? You basically are saying what I said is the problem is actually cool and good. Good players will know where healthpacks are. If they plink you coming out of spawn/rejoining the team they will immediately go to where the nearest healthpack is and just dive it or zone you out. The passive regen allows you to actually make use of your life instead of gambling on a team coming to help you or somehow winning your little duel or even catching a stray shot. I feel like what you are describing is why OW is often considered not fun by a lot of players, especially new players. Immediately dying in order to "play better" isn't exactly riveting gameplay and taking steps to make that less the case should be encouraging. Or rather would be if it was 3 years ago instead of today. And to the point about bronze play, a lot of times players will intentionally not do a role because they disagree with a hero selection or a route selection or they just aren't paying attention. They will literally tell people "go grab a health pack, I want to heal this Roadhog" and then the person inevitably dies because of the refusal to heal or cover. It happens all the time, especially at higher levels of play. Creating fewer fail points in a team play game like this is GOOD.
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Jan 17, 2024 00:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Dying to reset and prevent staggers/feeding is indeed bad design but also that's just the game at this point and regen will only make the penalty of not playing optimally like that worse. You're not wrong that its technically better for a support to heal to get that ult charge. Absolutely in a perfect world that isn't' a problem with good team play. However, even at high level play but this isn't about the uptime or downtime, its about the opportunity costs of doing so. If someone is out for the same 20 seconds as you say vs dying and respawning, there are still opportunity costs to doing so. Dying helps the enemy team confirm that you're down a player, may help them build ult charge, and frees them up from having to worry about that player that might still be lurking. Knowing that they are going to eventually heal up OR get a healthpack OR get healed is different than knowing for sure they CANNOT get health without their supports disengaging. It really does matter when you put it into an ongoing fight context. Its also more fun for the person who got dinked. Knowing you're doomed to die because you happen to not have auto regen and you know your zen isn't going to get to you basically means an enemy can DQ you from fights without even really outplaying you. Knowing you're "1" is enough. This provides more flexibility in these cases so players aren't reliant upon supports to be good, and instead rely on THEMSELVES to play better. dogstile posted:Less fail points isn't inherently a good thing in a skill based game, imo. The really fun high skill metas (dive being the main one for that) had loads of fail points, but it was fun to watch pro's do it (and fun to play it) because you'd be able to manage all that. It depends where they are and how much it matters to which character and role.
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Jan 17, 2024 01:03
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comedyblissoption posted:it helps the players with OCD who get healed to 191 and then the ana looks elsewhere Hey fights are won and lost on that HP difference, it actually DOES matter on top of being irritating. Herstory Begins Now posted:'technically better' is one helluva understatement I'm not saying it is going to have a bearin IN a fight. I'm saying it impacts the flow and momentum of a game in a positive manner by removing the onus on supports to over perform and/or stop them from griefing. I'm also partial to the change because its something I've advocated for role-wide since it came out for this very reason. Its a bit silly a healer can limp away from a fight from pro moves and survive to get to their buddies but no one else can despite performing the same way. Let folks soft reset without relying on someone to do it in these down times. And the griefing both intentional or not is real in even high ranks. "I'm not healing you, you're only 8 hp short lol thats dumb i'm not going around that wall to top you off" * dps gets hit for 193 damage, causes preventable death due to healer stupidity*
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Jan 17, 2024 04:29
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Anyone that says "its just QP/Unranked/Casual" in a team game where there is a time commitment, and then proceeds to throw or ruin the game should be punished/chatbanned/put into their own hell queue. As others mentioned, playing a lovely map is bad enough and it suuuuucccckkks to have limited time to play and getting stuck with a slew of bad maps, its even worse when you have that same limited time and folks use it to futz around. Its to the point where I almost only play ranked not because i'm a super sweaty try hard, but because I want the folks in the game to maybe possibly try to actually WIN the game and do well instead of intentionally throwing or goofing off. The game has practice mode and custom set ups, if you want to practice goofing off go there. I'm actually curious with the consensus here though, if someone wants to go DPS mercy or melee only hog or some goofy thing in a game, is that punishable? Or is everyone free to do what they want since its their account? And how do we arbitrate this?
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Feb 20, 2024 23:32
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Its frustrating to see the fall of what could have been an amazing game. Its like they took everything amazing about it and strangled it in the name of profits and glitzy showcases. They could have easily ridden a steady wave of popularity if they just kept doing those character release videos for each character and put effort into each one. People literally were tuning in or buying the game just to see where the stories and characters went. Instead they did a few and then....nothing. poo poo, APEX is doing more cinematic things almost in tandem with OW dropping off doing it and it shows with their steady popularity. I mean look at the latest video showcasing APEX's new season and level up abilities. It generated excitement and engagement and showed that the team was at least at that point, focused on deepening the game. A lot of people were here for the PVE stuff in OW. I myself didn't like it much, but I was glad it was there because it made the game more charming and fun and showed some form of progression with the character and world building and opened up opportunities for abilities to change and be modified in a fun way. Why not have the casual balance stuff with the auto aim and sticky grenades there and leave all the HARDCORE balance stuff for ranked. Thats generally two separate groups that play it AND you can see which one works out best in the end with that kind of feedback. If they focused on community building with better moderation that has A PERSON looking at the reports and language in the game and created more transparency in their match ups, I think it could be salvaged. So much of the bad behavior is done by folks skirting or abusing the system in order to maintain racist, sexist, and homophobic behaviors that SHOULD get you kicked out but instead they punish "gg ez" nonsense. Like THAT is what keeps people upset at night and not the death threats. I have literally seen folks and even had some of my accounts sanctioned for saying nothing but "you must defeat sheng long to stand a chance". The height of toxicity. It is still crazy to me that these competative/ranked games that lock you onto teams with randoms doesn't showcase the stats of each person, their character usage, medals earned, etc. I think that more than anything creates such toxicity and disassociation than any balance or map decision. It is like asking players if they want to be on offense or defense for a football team and you better hope everyone has drafted the right role, otherwise you're gonna have a team full of people who want to play QB and its gonna go poorly. If someone wants to play Mercy, let them queue as Mercy under the support banner, if we even have role queue at all.Let players see who they are with (not necessarily up against) so they can make better decisions and adjust play styles accordingly instead of throwing everyone into the map and expecting the top 500 soldier to just instantly swap and do just as well on widow or junk. There isn't enough time for most players to be THAT good at THAT many characters, and punishing people both in and out of game for it is not a good way to build a returning player base. League of Legends has something like this and it made the game MORE accessible and popular by allowing players to adjust who they want to be or play as when they measure up their own team and synergy abilities. It encourages team work and communication instead of 5 silo'd players hoping to do their best in what COULD be a dynamic game! And if they don't like the team comp, then folks can vote to back out or go forward, let the players design their experience a bit better instead of mandating stuff like this. I know this is just shouting into the wind becasue its pretty clear the goal is "battle pass bux" from the team, but got drat. This could have been a game folks loved and stayed engaged with but they've done their best to just alienate their players with automation, microtransactions, and a complete disregard for the folks that made the game what it was.
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Mar 23, 2024 00:17
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BabyRyoga posted:Seriously, it sounds like this is what happens though: Havent played in a while but can almost confirm this. It happens in other games too. Its automated and the reports are tallied up vy volume not by justification. People can and do report for aaaanything that displeases them. From saying "GG" to asking for heals/movement/swap/literally anything gameplay related to even pocking a character they dont like. All the ai has to do is fine any text at all and itll enforce a penalty. Fun anecdote: a buddy of mine played that final fantasy online mmo and they had rules like this too. Basically "no making a player feel bad or critical of performance", so asking for more healing or dps was literally considered toxic. They would run damage meters and stuff and if someone did not perform well enough, or futzed off or whatever, and they all died it was guild policy to all mute. Leave the raid. Reform the raid without the person and try again. They would never ever say why or communicate at all because they could get suspended for making the player feel bad. Not saying you SHOULD bully someone at all, but even bringing it up at all was grounds to punish. Its crazy but they had to all that just to function or folks would get banned for saying "more heals on the tank'in chat. Then theres the time i got chatbanned for saying "dont be homophobic" in chat as others were being so in voice and chat. Banned for toxic language i poo poo you not. Automating behavior regulations and chat is, i think, a bigger contributer to the toxic online behavior than the playerbase itself. Online communities literally do it to themselves with poor moderation. I mean, look at twitter. But....it doesnt make number go up, so...
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Apr 22, 2024 23:25
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