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cinci zoo sniper posted:What you have missed is a recent update that included a placeholder for a rolling out rules change: Herstory Begins Now posted:For better or for worse that's almost certainly the single most iconic piece of footage of this entire war at this point. Dude's video ended up with like 9 figures of views and on basically every major news source. It's in the news now again because they got the guy off the front to do interviews. I've lurked here since the first day of the invasion and honestly the ridiculous stack of draconian rules is killing the utility of this thread. It was a fantastic aggregator that let me come in for lots of news summaries, analysis, in-depth videos, etc. But now a video that offered educational value (by your own admission!) is completely removed despite being properly tagged. I've also noticed regular updates aren't getting posted as much and hell, even front page news isn't showing up here. https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-03-29-23/h_946a8a821e4e0d76afeafe19c04aa7e6 This was top story on CNN and showing up in a lot of other news sites, but it's nowhere to be found in the thread. Ukrainians shelled the power supply for occupied Melitopol. Could that signal the possible beginning of a counter-offensive? Just a one-off for a high value target? Things like this used to get posted instantly and there'd be robust discussion. I can't help but notice the volume, timeliness, and quality of posts has decreased as moderation has gotten more strict. Granted it's impossible to say how much of the drop off could be due to people simply losing interest, but it's not the first time in this thread that I've seen the cycle of interesting information posted>well-meaning poster chastised/probated/banned>decreased engagement on topics of interest. It sucks that I can't come to what used to be a great thread to stay informed. I'd rather have to wade through a few posts of questionable content (as long as they're properly labeled NWS/NMS) than just have people not post because everything can get you a probation or ban for not following Section 3, paragraph 2, subsection 1a found on page 5 of the constantly changing thread rules. Edit: vvv Yeah as I conceded it's definitely impossible to say how much is just due to natural attrition. But having been around since the beginning I've subjectively noticed posting habits seem to change following these types of slapdowns. I mean that's kind of the purpose of doing it with the intention of cleaning up the thread, but I'd argue it's gone way past "cleaning up" to "stifling". Hakarne fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 20:39
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HonorableTB posted:Cinci I feel like a lot of the reason you have a reputation for being iron fisted in moderation here, and why people might not be posting as much, is that you often come across as unnecessarily abrasive when dealing with people. You sometimes add unnecessary threats to your warnings, you're brusque and short in responding to people, and when you disagree with someone's points it can feel like the atmosphere is crowding out any room for people to disagree with you or your points for fear of catching a sixer or more due to the first two reasons I mentioned. I don't want to dogpile you personally Cinci and fwiw I think you've done a good (unpaid, thankless) job moderating this thread and keeping it on the rails overall. I also realize that no matter what you're always going to have people who think you're either too strict or too lax on enforcement. But this basically sums up why I don't post and "be the poster who steps up and makes the post with that link" as you replied to me. What if it was posted and I missed it? Abrasive reply or Sixer. What if it breaks a new rule, or a rule that I didn't catch in the wall-o-text rules page? Abrasive reply, sixer, or even a ban? What if you just decide it's not worthy of discussion in this thread? Abrasive reply or maybe a sixer. You may feel (and even be correct) that questionable admin actions in this thread are few and far between, or that your terse replies are perfectly reasonable and justified. But they do stand out in people's minds when they happen and my assertion was that it dampens activity in the thread because I know it has kept me personally from posting here. And a few others have since spoken up and expressed similar sentiments. Again I have personally considered posting things in this thread but I avoid it because why bother? It would be nice to share with others but I already know the information, and while a sixer or pithy reply isn't a big deal why risk limiting my ability to be involved elsewhere? I may only have time to engage for a few hours a day on SA and if I'm probed I can't participate in discussions in other threads. Again not a big deal and it's not like my world ends if I can't shitpost for a night on SA. But why potentially make it an issue when I could... just not? I'd rather this thread have a more open feel that encourages random people to join in and post content even if there's a risk of it being repetitive or ultimately not of interest. Frankly, the posting environment in this thread feels a bit stifled (subjective, I know). As it stands now I'd rather just extract what useful information there may be and go about my business elsewhere.
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Mar 30, 2023 20:29
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I'll try to address these as best as possible.cinci zoo sniper posted:The bold part is interesting in that you suggest that it's unfair to expect you to read the thread rules I believe you said the thread rules work out to what, 3 pages long? Is it really so far-fetched to think someone may read through 3 pages and overlook, forget, or not understand/misinterpret something? Or have a reasonable fear that they might, especially in an environment with stringent moderation? cinci zoo sniper posted:you suppose that you are unable to talk to people at all in this thread, in that you do not seem to allow a possibility that you, you know, just make a post and talk about it to someone. The whole point of this feedback is that I and others have expressed that we don't feel free to just "make a post and talk about it to someone" here. cinci zoo sniper posted:In addition to plainly overstating “what if I missed the link” angle, I have literally that 1 probation that was mentioned for thousands of reposts, as it was simply not practical to do so when the thread was faster and events were moving quicker. It's not just about that specific example but as I and others have said instances have stuck out that give the impression that moderation is strict and we risk subjective probations and bans for posting. I don't remember exactly where and when it has happened so it's hard to go back and find it. And maybe that's not fair and totally not the case but that's how it can be interpreted to stifle discussion. cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, what does “What if you just decide it's not worthy of discussion in this thread?” even mean – do you often go around threads and make random “this is too bad of a thread for me to participate in” posts? Don't do that, if you do so, is my advice for making friends online. I could see how that might be unclear, the "you" in that was supposed to be referring to you. What if you (Cinci) decide it's not worthy of discussion? That's the concern. Now you may feel that's not fair and that you don't do that, but as HonorableTB mentioned sometimes the way you respond to people... cinci zoo sniper posted:do you often go around threads and make random “this is too bad of a thread for me to participate in” posts? Don't do that, if you do so, is my advice for making friends online. ... like this, comes off as sanctimonious and condescending. Maybe you misinterpreted my post or maybe I was just entirely unclear and it's all my fault. This is admittedly a very mild rebuke and I'd normally just brush it off, but you do this type of thing a lot to people who don't meet your high posting expectations and it's a convenient example. It's not like you're being incredibly mean or anything, but when people see a mod making terse, harsh replies and constantly talking about and using their probe buttons it's going to stifle discussion. cinci zoo sniper posted:In general, the whole vibe of this post, much like the previous post, is that you've made up your mind that this is not a thread that you're interested in posting. Which is perfectly fine, I also have threads where I decide that I simply am not interested in participating. What I'm curious to understand, though, is why then bother making that original post, that prompted me to eventually run this feedback session? If you're convinced that the thread is, well, not worthless, but clearly not good enough to either read or participate in it, what prompted you to make that initial post? No, it's the exact opposite! I have very much wanted to post in this thread and have discussions. I'd also like to see other people post more in here because it was a useful aggregator of information on the war. I'm very interested in this thread and I would like it to have as much content as possible! I made the original post because a piece of information was removed (due to a site rule and not a thread-specific one, granted) and it was kind of a straw-that-broke-the-camels-back situation for me. Plenty of times I'd wanted to jump into a discussion but ultimately decided it wasn't worth the hassle or potential consequences due to the heavy moderation environment. Plenty of times I'd be reading and think "Why the hell was this person probated for such a minor or negligible issue? Why was this piece of information removed or dismissed with a condescending post by the moderator?" I offered additional feedback because you requested it. I tried to be as diplomatic as possible as I realize this can very easily be construed as a personal attack or dogpile. But Cinci, you've now had multiple people come out of the woodwork to express sentiments that maybe the moderation is a little too heavy or even just directly say that your responses in particular are off-putting to discussion. That's kind of what I'm dancing around here without trying to be an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 30, 2023 21:38
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