|
Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:They definitely are if you only read some threads there. The way QCS works is if you have identified a genuine issue, like for example the anime forum mod being a pedo, people will be like "that's bad" and make noise until an admin arrives to (usually) do the bare minimum and close the thread. If, on the other hand, your issue is that you've cooked your brain by getting incredibly mad at some insular thread nonsense that will never matter, like for example someone disagreed with you about the technical definition of a genocide and you want them punished, what will happen is that people who have not boiled their brains will read your OP and make fun of you for being a dork. Basically if you post there and get made fun of it's probably because you should have just gone outside instead. A QCS thread is an excellent barometer of whether what you're worked up about is an actual issue.
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 16:37 |
|
|
ronya posted:I've noticed a trickle of folks whose gimmick is vacuous or shallow questions - not even hostile JAQ-ing off, but just a stream of simple questions or confused naïveté - in order to either get a rise out of thread regulars, or to crowd out headline-driven thread interest when the news cycle is embarrassing to their favourite authoritarians What? I don't get this. You're mad that people are asking questions? Not JAQing off, which is illegal, but asking questions? Why is that something that riles up the thread regulars?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 05:45
|
|
|
as a occasional lurker in the non-regional threads, my hot take is: just explicitly partition the problem threads by ideology already. It's already de facto the case the Girondins and Montagnards didn't work out their differences three centuries ago; dying debate subforum sure as hell isn't going to find the solution today most of the interesting posts are people who know the subject matter (be it through personal experience, technical expertise, or the simple patience to sit down and read about the subject for an hour) setting it out for people who don't, not liberals and leftists sniping at each other tediously. There is no fruitful exchange of thoughts without at least some shared assumptions on how the world works the regional threads are less subject to this problem because the disengaged are also typically disinterested, but US politics threads could really benefit from this
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 05:49
|
|
|
some plague rats posted:What? I don't get this. You're mad that people are asking questions? Not JAQing off, which is illegal, but asking questions? Why is that something that riles up the thread regulars? disparity of effort - e.g., asking questions that would require explaining a lot of basics, when clicking on your post history shows that you have some domain knowledge and formed opinions already it's a way to get around the "make serious arguments" rule: ask unserious questions
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 06:14
|
|
|
Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:e: Also, if you're willingly part of an administration, you don't get to disavow any association with or responsibility for it. If you're a mod and see that kind of hostile atmosphere goin on, act accordingly or become complicit by not doing anything. Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:Even if someone's way of expressing themselves imperfectly, there is no excuse for the way that place deals with people's concerns. That hostile atmosphere discourages people and renders the place unusable for its professed purpose, which in turn makes anybody referring anyone else there dishonest. Nix Panicus posted:May we get a list of recognized experts, their areas of expertise, and preferably their credentials as a community resource so we know which poster's views carry more weight on a certain subject? It can be difficult to keep track of individual posters so some kind of sticky for quick referral would be great. Just post up whatever resource Koos uses to determine expertise as a start and we can add to it from there! I think this will really improve community interactions, plus it would be neat to see what people's real expertise is here! Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:Then why have a thread on this forum? If they want to be among themselves, they can go to a German forum. As long as a country has forums that largely allow free speech without consequences, that's a viable alternative. For a positive reason as to why, how about the fact that you get non-locals coming in and asking questions, which helps you get a better understanding of your own country? Weird cultural traits easily go unquestioned in a thread where every poster is part of that culture. As for the benefit it brings to outsiders, it's basically the reverse of the above. If you want to ask a question about German politics, or advice about moving or working there, you can just go and post in the German thread. Its not like you're gonna be probated for asking a question that was answered in German earlier. Those threads are basically a convenient resource for everyone else, and it's not like there'd be a German politics thread without the Germans. It literally only costs some server capacity and a line in the forum index, and in return you also get a non-Anglo perspective on politics where English speakers are directly involved. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Oct 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 08:38
|
|
|
"lived experience" should be recognized for what it is: an anecdote. Anecdotes are fine when combined with facts and data, but not as the sole basis for an argument.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 12:04
|
|
|
Regarding QCS chat, this is where I asked if the rules ostensibly designed to prevent that forum from becoming a FYAD-lite would be enforced and the admin response was, 'no'. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=4011310&pagenumber=7&perpage=40#post526053551
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:"lived experience" should be recognized for what it is: an anecdote. The policy seems to be that it's an anecdote if you live in a place that's not exotic to westerners and a lived experience if you do.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 16:28
|
|
|
I wanna shout out Timeless Appeal, the LGBTQIA+ thread she started and now IKs has been really good quality discussion.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:1. It is very frustrating to see someone violate the rules, and instead of applying them, the mods proceed to ask the user questions and give them control of the thread for several pages. Every single time this happens, the only effect is to draw out the harm to discussion that the rule is supposed to prevent, and the original violator either a) gets probated anyway or b) they don't, and all people looking to poo poo up discussion get an object lesson in forms of discussion-making GBS threads that the mods will facilitate. When you do this, you are making moderation harder for yourselves in the future, and making the subforum less useable for everyone else. tl;dr
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 19:47
|
|
|
I wanna say, begrudgingly, that Leon Trotsky has been a good mod for USCE, he has been pretty good about not administering excessive probations. He’s also a very good poster and uses his talents to moderate the thread in lieu of probes, which is the way it should be. I know it’s not always possible but I think the best outcomes come when mods stick to the threads in which they post regularly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 19:47
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:Bluntly, the reason for giving a nod to non-American posters is that the average American needs a few minutes to find America on the globe, This also applies to Euros, dipshit. God you're terrible
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:"lived experience" should be recognized for what it is: an anecdote. I agree with this to a certain degree. From a cultural perspective I certainly defer to people who live in a non-US country and very much enjoy learning new things about how people do things elsewhere. But for every instance of someone saying "well the majority of the people in this country want X to happen" I can just as easily find an instance of "a majority of Americans want [some dumb backwards regressive thing]". Majority opinions in any given country don't always reflect right or wrong or involve looking back at patterns throughout history I mean poo poo, Brexit passed. A majority of people voted for it. That doesn't make it good or OK and the fact that it passed shouldn't be used to discourage criticism of it Discendo Vox posted:It is an issue that there's less current events being discussed in the USCE thread, because plenty's happening. The current practice of encouraging trolls to frame and dominate an issue for several pages has a depressing effect on other participation, and doesn't foster discussion of news sources in context. I'm planning to start adding content to the media literacy thread again in the next week or so; maybe I can rework some of it to help with that. Dude here's the thing. Leftists aren't trolling. We're telling people like you how absurd it is to declare yourself The True Understander of All Things who just so happens to repeat and defend status quo talking points. You're not right about everything and you're not nearly as smart as you want everyone else to think you are. You don't deserve any kind of special treatment because your posts are 500 words with no jokes, especially if you're wrong about something And this is tangentially related but worth pointing out: Liberals are the ones who spend all their time explaining things to people as though nobody else truly understands anything. Leftists understand what's going on just fine. The primary difference is that liberals are usually defending the awful status quo in America and are very concerned about how all the processes work, whereas leftists are primarily concerned with the real tangible outcomes of the system. We know how the system works. We know how all these procedures work. And it all sucks. You don't need to tell us how good the debt forgiveness program is because it actually sucks and isn't what should've happened. What should have happened is an executive order cancelling all federal student debt day 1 and telling private insurance to gently caress off with their lawsuit threats because that's what would have helped the most people financially. That's the moral and ethical good outcome but people like you ignore all that and spend 1000 words trying to explain why the latter option is actually bad and not feasible and all the same stuff we're all tired of hearing because it's bullshit. And we're tired of status quo defenders spending tons of time trying to explain things to us like we're 5 years old instead of focusing on what the actual outcomes of all this is on regular everyday people who are struggling to get by And to tie this into any potential rules change suggestions, we should absolutely be able to talk about changing or breaking the rules when it comes to US Govt policy. I distinctly remember when Herstory Begins Now was a mod she posted something about how we're not allowed to talk about how our elected officials should do whatever is necessary to make things better for regular people (like killing the filibuster and shoving through progressive laws) because it's, and I quote, "tedious". That's completely ridiculous because the systems that exist around the current events that happen are absolutely relevant to the events themselves because that's how cause and effect work The  people can sometimes be helpful and informative but there are absolutely a few people who get really mad when the status quo is challenged and think they need to bust out a very helpful explanatory post about why the status quo is actually the best we can ever hope for and here's why all the people complaining should stop. And of course those posts tend to be made by the same people who think they're The True Understanders of All Things (who really just want to you to know how smart they think they are) and they're really not
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:I mean poo poo, Brexit passed. A majority of people voted for it. Elephant Ambush posted:Dude here's the thing. Leftists aren't trolling.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 20:40
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:And to tie this into any potential rules change suggestions, we should absolutely be able to talk about changing or breaking the rules when it comes to US Govt policy. I distinctly remember when Herstory Begins Now was a mod she posted something about how we're not allowed to talk about how our elected officials should do whatever is necessary to make things better for regular people (like killing the filibuster and shoving through progressive laws) because it's, and I quote, "tedious". That's completely ridiculous because the systems that exist around the current events that happen are absolutely relevant to the events themselves because that's how cause and effect work You are allowed to do this, for the record. The same rules apply to it as any other argument, such as that you can't say the same thing repeatedly, and that responses should be directly related to what they're responding to, and that you should try to be specific and sophisticated rather than repeating unfalsifiable political rhetoric that we've probably heard elsewhere on the internet. People who are against maneuvers that are illegal, non-traditional or otherwise dirty should also recognize that pointing out that this is what they are does not end the argument or mean that it's bad faith to continue supporting these maneuvers. When these issues come up, I would encourage posters to have the confidence to let things stand and agree to disagree when the argument can't go anywhere. The ideal interaction would be thus: Poster A: Congressional Democrats need to stop respecting the conch, and just talk whenever they'd like. There are already Republicans who do so, or hoard the conch even when it's no longer their turn to hold it. Poster B: That would be a blatant disregard of senate rules, and would make it much harder to discuss and therefore pass necessary bills with everyone talking at once. It could even be illegal with a certain interpretation of Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution. Poster A: Yes. I don't care though, because the current situation puts us at a political disadvantage when crucial bills are at stake. Poster B: Very well. I won't point out that it's illegal again, since you know. Poster A: Thank you. I won't bring up this maneuver again, since everyone is aware of it now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 22:35
|
|
|
Mods, you’re doing a good job. Leftists here have thrived under the benefit of pro-left moderation for so long that fairness feels like injustice - just ignore them. The fact that former mods/IKs are lining up to whine is especially rich. You were shown the door for a reason, apply some basic introspection to your own actions and sit down. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 22:48
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:It's off-topic, but I do think it's worth making it clear that this isn't actually true. Only just slightly more than a quarter of the population voted for it. Your first sentence is the kind of nitpicking pedantry and intentional misunderstanding the regulars do that makes DnD a tedious unreadable slog. Its acrobatics to prompt a rule breaking offense and it's the reason a sizable number of leftists have given up posting there. Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. Pointing out the gaping flaws in the liberal worldview and how you're ghoulishly upholding a system whose gears are drenched in blood isn't trolling either. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 23:15
|
|
|
Please make an economy thread so Leon can post in it
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 23:35
|
|
|
RealityWarCriminal posted:Please make an economy thread so Leon can post in it 
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 23:59
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:
Yeah if I had to name my number 1 pet peeve about d&d right now it's this. It's incredibly frustrating to post my genuine opinion about something, and it gets met with sideways accusations of being a cspam troll or a Russian propagandist. It's a way of avoiding having to actually debate the point, and it shouldn't be tolerated. I thought there was supposed to be an assumption of good faith here, but that often seems to go one way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 01:47
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Yeah if I had to name my number 1 pet peeve about d&d right now it's this. It's incredibly frustrating to post my genuine opinion about something, and it gets met with sideways accusations of being a cspam troll or a Russian propagandist. It's a way of avoiding having to actually debate the point, and it shouldn't be tolerated. Please report such accusations as they are indeed against the rules.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 01:48
|
|
|
Koos Group posted:Please report such accusations as they are indeed against the rules. I reported multiple cases of them just the other day and as far as I know nothing came of those reports.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I reported multiple cases of them just the other day and as far as I know nothing came of those reports. I didn't handle those, since I've been somewhat busy the last week, but I will take another look at all the reports you've made recently and PM you about whatever decisions were made.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 01:59
|
|
|
Mods stay out of the UKMT, every time you interact with it you gently caress things up. I hope things are going well in the other non-US threads. US threads are poo poo for reasons that have been well explained above and casually dismissed by mods so once again nothing will improve. I have no idea what purpose these threads serve when people who have been ground down until they stop posting here are required to keep detailed files on every interaction that led to that decision unless they want their feedback dismissed out of hand.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 02:44
|
|
|
Tarnop posted:Mods stay out of the UKMT, every time you interact with it you gently caress things up. the nz thread hasn't had problems recently, but i think that's because the last mod intervention succeeded in pushing even more posts to discord  my feedback is that the rules and enforcement approach remain geared towards bad (american) threads and posters, and it would be better if posters were left to resolve things by themselves more often.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 04:59
|
|
|
Bishyaler posted:Your first sentence is the kind of nitpicking pedantry and intentional misunderstanding the regulars do that makes DnD a tedious unreadable slog. Its acrobatics to prompt a rule breaking offense and it's the reason a sizable number of leftists have given up posting there. Bishyaler posted:Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. Pointing out the gaping flaws in the liberal worldview and how you're ghoulishly upholding a system whose gears are drenched in blood isn't trolling either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 07:18
|
|
|
Tarnop posted:Mods stay out of the UKMT, every time you interact with it you gently caress things up. yeah this is really annoying, having to wait for the quarterly feedback thread to redress one's grievances is not ideal. D&D doesnt get much traffic or drama these days and this thread has been fairly copacetic .. what about having a feedback thread up all the time?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 10:38
|
|
|
It gets the same traffic it always has, which is about 200-350 users viewing depending on the time of day with large surges when there's some big news event. US CE is somewhat slower, yes, but the forum is more than half international and much much more than that one thread. That is also about the same amount of traffic D&D got before the 2016 election. The 2016 election produced a massive surge in readership which spawned CSPAM. The idea that D&D readership is dwindling is not really borne out by the actual numbers. edit: also if you have grievances you can always just PM a mod or Koos, or if you want try Azathoth? Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Oct 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 11:33
|
|
|
BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:yeah this is really annoying, having to wait for the quarterly feedback thread to redress one's grievances is not ideal. You could always just PM a moderator or post a QCS thread.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 11:41
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:or post a QCS thread.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 14:34
|
|
|
World Famous W posted:now you're just being mean to be mean Not at all. In fact, I merely defer to their posting career as a QCS regular.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 14:43
|
|
|
Ok here's some feedback: when the mod running the feedback thread is trolling it and mocking users, it defeats the purpose. People are going to stop bothering if even anodyne suggestions like "keep this thread around more" are sarcastically dismissed. Assuming the point is to get honest feedback that mods may not necessarily like. If the point is to discourage people from posting feedback you may as well just not have it. Also if the moderation of this forum is going to be as heavy-handed as it is, it's a bad look when mods are trolling and breaking their own rules constantly especially here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
I appreciate the mod teams efforts, the forums feel more comfortable for people knowledgeable on the subjects with info sharing and less having to reply to paragraphs written by an american basement guy with opinions on global politicsJudgy Fucker posted:This also applies to Euros, dipshit. God you're terrible Lmao years long grudge about euros insulting AN AMERICAN and his awful takes
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 16:04
|
|
|
Somaen posted:I appreciate the mod teams efforts, the forums feel more comfortable for people knowledgeable on the subjects with info sharing and less having to reply to paragraphs written by an american basement guy with opinions on global politics It's hilarious how much you hate America considering if it wasn't for the American MIC you'd be speaking Russian already
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 16:28
|
|
|
Judgy Fucker posted:It's hilarious how much you hate America considering if it wasn't for the American MIC you'd be speaking Russian already Uhh I am a normie that hates wasting time on reading garbage. This forum is full of intelligent knowledgeable people whose nationality is anonymous, except for yours because all your posts in the Ukraine thread are 1) complaining that people aren't blaming the main characters of the universe - America and NATO 2) whining about people making fun of dumb americans because of 1). No one would try to get you to stop posting if it was thoughtful, intelligent posts because that would make them look bad Russian is my native language, what a weird rear end insult. Only a lead brain-damaged burger eater could come up with that Somaen fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 17:16
|
|
|
I think the D&D mods are doing a better job than pretty much anyone is willing to give them credit for. I, uh, didn't really understand the Ukraine thread crackdown on discussion of a leaked US congress-signed open letter about aid to Ukraine, but if the hypothetical alternative to accepting that crackdown were losing CZS moderation, then no trade no deal - I would not want to gamble the D&D Ukraine thread on any other mod. I do not think D&D moderation is anywhere near as severe or over-reaching as the vehement claims in this feedback thread. D&D is supposed to be the forum where you have to factually support your arguments and/or provide valuable information. Other forums with more relaxed rules are out there for people who prefer them. Edit: I should clarify that I'm assuming CZS is the by far most active mod in the Ukraine thread, not the only mod of that thread. Victar fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Oct 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
Judgy Fucker posted:It's hilarious how much you hate America considering if it wasn't for the American MIC you'd be speaking Russian already Holy poo poo at busting out a "you know, we saved your rear end in the war" for a war that's not over and also the US isn't officially fighting in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
Victar posted:I do not think D&D moderation is anywhere near as severe or over-reaching as the vehement claims in this feedback thread. D&D is supposed to be the forum where you have to factually support your arguments and/or provide valuable information. Other forums with more relaxed rules are out there for people who prefer them. Unless you're talking about their behavior in the regional threads?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 18:32
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Ok here's some feedback: when the mod running the feedback thread is trolling it and mocking users, it defeats the purpose. People are going to stop bothering if even anodyne suggestions like "keep this thread around more" are sarcastically dismissed. I'm not sure what you're referring to. I've only given one joke response in this thread, to a user who seemed to be joking themselves (Harold Fjord), and it was not at any particular person's expense. I also don't believe I've done anything to discourage feedback, and I welcome feedback that is critical of my or my team's decisions, because as you say doing otherwise would defeat the thread's point. BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:yeah this is really annoying, having to wait for the quarterly feedback thread to redress one's grievances is not ideal. It's part of my general philosophy on sticky threads. A sticky tells users a thread is something they should read, either because it's helpful for posting on the forum, or important in its own right, so having too many stickies can act as a barrier to entry or just cause them to become less read. The purpose of feedback threads isn't so much to address specific grievances, but to use them as examples to reflect on whether there are general, broad changes that should be made to D&D's moderation policies or rules. Addressing specific grievances is done via reports and/or communication between myself and the aggrieved parties, right when they happen. What you're quoting is an example of this, because I already talked with the UKMT and resolved the issue some time ago (we were already trying to let Guavanaut handle its moderation at the time, but there was what seemed like an exceptional circumstance where mods should come in, but we learned that there are not exceptional circumstances and in the future will defer to him completely and absolutely).
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 18:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 16:37 |
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:I feel like you're mixing up this thread and the previous one. The major criticism I'm seeing is that D&D mods are inconsistent in their application of the rules, and far too lenient on some posters, not that they're too harsh. I may have focused on the complaint with less voice in this thread. You're right that some of the feedback has been "D&D mods apply the rules too inconsistently". I think that in situations where it REALLY matters - such as genocide denial, or one poster being truly vile to another poster - the rules have been consistently applied. In lesser situations, I don't feel qualified to venture an opinion on the consistency of rules application.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 20:01
|
|