[Ukraine] another dawn is breaking in Mosciv and it's still Russian

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] another dawn is breaking in Mosciv and it's still Russian

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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed.
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Total:	404 votes

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The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

It's not a war, it's a murder

It's not a war, it's a moida

# ¿ Nov 3, 2022 23:17

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 06:32

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Chewbaccanator posted:

You can go into the individual properties being sold and look at the pictures and where they are. You can even bid on stuff directly. It's all available in English: https://privatization.gov.ua/en/

It's kind of insane, a Clinton fever dream from the 90s.

https://privatization.gov.ua/en/product/at-kryvorizka-tets/

They're selling the monopoly heating utility for a city of 600,000 people on a website

I think I'm going to be sick

# ¿ Nov 4, 2022 23:48

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

That one is just sad but I think this could be a good situation comedy plot

https://privatization.gov.ua/en/pro...-seproshynagtv/

Maybe I don't fully understand privatization but apparently if I pay just over $1,000 USD I own Ukraine's physical testing facility for tires and rubber products and its 4 employees now work for me?

# ¿ Nov 4, 2022 23:57

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

bongmaster posted:

you'll own the wage arrears

That's only $4k usd according to their balance sheet summary

Well worth it for the best reality tv premise in a decade

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 00:07

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

this privatisation site is like one of these compilations of bad craigslist sellers.

this sounds pretty fancy, but it only costs $250?

the pictures are incredible though.

https://privatization.gov.ua/en/pro...ces-of-ukraine/

It's a bunch of garbage being stored in the back yard and warehouse of a state agency

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 00:32

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, supposedly, the Iranians are also sending missiles over to Russia, I would say Iran itself is becoming a bit of an issue for the US'' grand strategy. Russia has its own military industrial complex, but there are limits about how many missiles you can produce in the short-term. However, if you have also the Iranian MIC hammering way...it is going to help quite a bit.

If you wanted to really press a weak point...it would be the Iranians. That said, if there was a more serious attempt at regime change/revolution in Iran, it would play complete havoc with oil prices.

And with the United States' successful history of special operations and proxy warfare against Iran, you can bet it'd go just swimmingly

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 00:34

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

I suspect there's a bit of a game of telephone going on here, because 800,000 is a third of Crimea's total population. Or just the usual ethnonationalist big talk that the Daily Mail loves. Either way, in the unlikely event that Ukraine retakes Crimea, I strongly doubt their military will be in any position to undertake such a mass deportation.

e: there would be a hell of a lot of refugees though, so I dunno, maybe that's what they're talking about?

https://news.yahoo.com/800-000-russians-illegally-moved-164500569.html

They're just preparing the ground for "all the ethnic russians living here are illegal migrants and have no rights" as a basis of all policy going forward, same poo poo that India is doing with the citizen registries and "Bengalis"

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 19:23

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

It turns out that if you deny the humanity and citizenship rights of a very large class of people, you can cast yourself as tolerant just for letting them exist in their own houses for another day!

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 19:24

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

I'm guessing mass extermination of ethnic Russians in Ukraine is probably not logistically feasible either, so...

Do you...maybe want to reconsider this post that you just made?

Majorian posted:

Cool cool cool.

Yeah just keep in mind that isn't going to end and it's not going to be a thing that happens all at once either. Ethnic cleansing is a process, not an event.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 19:44

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Isentropy posted:

The plan is to create at the least a group of stateless citizens. Almost a Big Palestine, if you will. Except Palestine doesn't have a nuclear armed friend sitting on the border and a whole lot of reasons to make sure that won't happen

Egypt was this short the nukes until they got beaten to death by Western military aid and then couped repeatedly

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 19:59

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

Why do you think it's not just rhetoric? Genuinely asking.

Their national politics is dominated by revanchist nationalism and their politicians and state media accounts talk about it constantly. Like, they're literally an entry in the Wikipedia article for Revanchism and it's official state policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism#Ukraine

Why do you think they don't mean what they say?

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 20:13

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

Because retaking Crimea seems so self-evidently strategically unfeasible from my perspective. The Russian government and media claim they're pursuing a lot of crazy maximalist goals themselves; that doesn't mean they actually, truly believe they can achieve those goals.

Revanchist nationalism: an ideology known for consideration of feasibility

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 22:21

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

I haven't seen anything in this war so far to convince me that the governments involved aren't rational actors.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2022 22:32

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

We got to this point in the conversation because we all had been talking about whether or not Ukraine thinks it can actually retake Crimea anytime soon. My point is, I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that they've bought that much into their own hype. It's possible they have; I'm just challenging the notion that it's a given.

Ukraine isn't a person, it's a country. A bunch of people in that country, including a bunch of their politicians, including their president, are talking and policy-making as if they intend to reconquista Crimea. They're talking and acting as if it's a policy objective so I think it's reasonable to assume they'll be looking for opportunities try and presumably, following the last couple of weeks of rhetoric, if they succeed then they'll take start taking steps to unperson the ethnic Russian population of Crimea by labeling them as "illegal migrants."

Whether deep down inside the president of Ukraine really truly believes in his heart of hearts that Ukraine can take Crimea by force during this current war is sort of irrelevant. He'd like to and making policy that assumes they will at some point so that's evidence enough of premeditation to making an attempt at some point.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2022 00:38

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

V. Illych L. posted:

the "let's retake crimea" position was until relatively recently a weirdo fringe position. sure, it's our formal goal, but nobody really thinks that the people who live there want to go back to ukraine and honestly we're not that sad to see them gone, they were strange assholes anyway

once the war starts, however, the principle becomes ukrainian territorial sovereignty - so you sort of have to go for crimea as well. that means that when people ask, you have to answer that yes, we also mean crimea when we say "restore our borders". this means that people take you seriously, and builds a mainstream polity for what used to be a non-mainstream position. if zelensky accepted a peace deal without restoring the pre-2014 borders, he could and probably would be accused of treason by very strong elements within the military, police and clandestine services. that would effectviely mean a coup. nobody wants that, but it's a real risk if he started walking back the claim to crimea.

Lol he signed the presidential directive about it in 2019 though

# ¿ Nov 6, 2022 04:49

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Ardennes posted:

That isn�t even a preview of how bad things will get in the future though. We are barely into the prelude for the carnage to come.

[banging on desk]

TRENCH! WAR! TRENCH! WAR! TRENCH! WAR!

# ¿ Nov 10, 2022 16:50

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

We're just breaking down and destroying silos to increase network synergy

# ¿ Nov 16, 2022 17:28

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

CongoJack posted:

making the Afghanistan war look efficient

are you kidding, this is even more efficient

at transforming taxpayer dollars into lockheed eps

# ¿ Nov 16, 2022 19:49

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

skewetoo posted:

I haven't seen any, is it any good?

their stock is up 32% ytd lol

but just wait until next year-ish when we start hearing about how we're dangerously under-equipped now after sending all of our explodeybois to ukraine and now we need new shinier ones

# ¿ Nov 16, 2022 20:18

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Morbus posted:

It's not a point in Ukraine's favor...but it is probably better than Ukraine being dependent on domestic production that is 100% vulnerable to strategic bombardment

Also, there are certain "advantages" to war production being externalized to countries that don't give a poo poo about the place where the war is being fought, if the goal is to sustain attritional war as long as possible

Advantages such as, the shoulder-fired missiles will keep showing up months and then years after all the real soldiers are dead and the only people left to carry them are brutalized children

# ¿ Dec 1, 2022 03:00

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Ytlaya posted:

They should make an Ace Combat series, but with tanks instead of planes and the protagonist is a Ukrainian.

Just imagine a tank zooming around, doing barrel rolls as it guns down all the orc invaders.

edit: You and your brothers in arms driving in formation, when suddenly *BOOM*

The tank to your left, pilot codename "HIMMLER", explodes.

HEYDRICH: Got one on your six!
Me (BANDERA): I can't shake him!
*an explosion from behind, followed by a friendly tank doing a barrel roll ahead of you*
HITLER: Bogy down! The one who takes out the fewest orcs buys the drinks tonight!

isnt this just battletanx global assault

# ¿ Jan 13, 2023 08:52

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Starsfan posted:

Man it's hard to place losses from modern warfare in the same reality as what was going on 80 years ago.. You read so much cope about how Russia is nearing their breaking point with 30,000 to 40,000 casualties in a year and then wikipedia tells you that like 600,000 Russian soldiers got surrounded and surrendered around Kiev one week back in WW2.

It's straight up great war propaganda when everyone was made to believe the war was going to be over Any Day Now and The Hun Can't Sustain These Losses and it just kept going. And yeah the scale of it is just miniscule in comparison so "oh they're going to run out of guys soon!!!" just rings even more hollow.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 20:05

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

BadOptics posted:

I assume you mean AIM-120's because even the newer AIM-9X doesn't have the range to go up against even the older BVR stuff the Russian AF could field (9X is like 22 mi at best vs the old R-27 at ~50 mi). And while they've been pretty bad with combined arms, I've not heard or read any reports anything about Russian fighter jets being pushovers in A2A combat (mostly because of operating in friendly AD zones and using their range and better radars) - even from western sources. F-16's would give the Ukrainians a big boost in capability, but I don't think it would be enough to achieve air domination let alone air superiority.

The wonder weapons narrative is stupid as gently caress on its face. It's a war of attrition now and Ukraine would need a staggeringly large number of weapons and troops and logistics to sustain them, all delivered in one push, to get a material advantage large enough to bring a dynamic end to the conflict. But that's not what's going to happen, they're going to get a few dozen tanks here, a couple hundred ATGMs there, enough to make Russia eat poo poo but not enough to actually win anything. Adding a few planes and sidewinders is just another line item on the butcher's bill, it doesn't matter how much better the F-16 or AIM-9X is or is not compared to Russian contemporary systems. They're going to lose airframes against air defenses, they're going to fire a lot of missiles that miss, they're going to have parts shortages, they're going to have debris ingestion that takes out engines, they're going to lack qualified pilots - all the same poo poo that drives wars of attrition in any other domain applies equally to jets.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 20:12

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Megamissen posted:

"safe design diminishes the chance of firing leathal ammunition"

surely you would want a design that prevents firing lethal ammo rather then just diminishes the chance right?

Get ready for the next iteration of bortac training exercises gone wrong to feature mag-dumping live ammo into the secretary pool

# ¿ May 24, 2023 00:04

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

speng31b posted:

why are you executing people with paintball guns

do you really think that our elite murder-doers are going to buy these things and not do simulated war crimes with them i mean come on they literally already did

quote:

WASHINGTON ― Federal prison riot officers deployed by Attorney General William Barr to the streets of Washington during unrest this month injured fellow Bureau of Prisons staff members during �inappropriate and dangerous� training exercises last year, according to a Justice Department inspector general�s memo released Thursday.

In one case, members of the BOP�s Special Operations Response Team team shot �flash bang� munitions, one of which caused �significant injury requiring surgery and ongoing treatment� for a staff member. The munitions weren�t authorized by Bureau of Prisons policy.

In another instance, team members sprayed pepper spray into a business office where employees with medical conditions had been stationed during an exercise. Team members �attempted to breach the room using a crow bar,� sprayed pepper spray without authorization and �fired a simunition round that struck a staff member in the chest,� the memo said. They then pushed and shoved staff members who were not supposed to be involved in the exercise due to medical conditions, it added.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/federal-prison-sort-bop-dc_n_5eeb774ec5b6c8594c7f2679

just low key breaching a room filled with non-participants during an exercise, throwing a flash bang, and then pepper spraying and shooting all those cowards who didn't want to be in my tactical larp

# ¿ May 24, 2023 00:41

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Ardennes posted:

Supposedly there has been some HIMARS active on the front, but there is so much Russian AD on the ground that it hasn't been effective, sort of an issue with MRLS systems.

Is that an issue with MRLS systems or an issue where each one of your MRLS systems has been put through the MIC compaction cycle so many times that it only carries six ready rounds

# ¿ Jun 10, 2023 08:25

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Ardennes posted:

Well, a lot of it is just the size of the rocket itself, they physically take up space but I am talking about higher priced guided rocket systems.

reject precision, return to grid saturation

# ¿ Jun 10, 2023 08:31

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Wait did anyone actually think Ukraine had enough armor and artillery to make strategic progress here

Me, looking at WW1: "our team is definitely going to win by christmas. this time."

# ¿ Jun 10, 2023 19:03

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Frosted Flake posted:

"According to FT sources, Washington believes the next five months are critical to the outcome of the conflict. �If we get to September and Ukraine has not made significant gains, then the international pressure on [the West] to bring them to negotiations will be enormous,� another source told the FT, on condition of anonymity."

FRIEDMAN UNITS ARE BACK, BABY

# ¿ Jun 11, 2023 23:20

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

January 6 Survivor posted:

What fascist, ultra right wing rag attempting to relativize the holocaust as not all that bad actually this from you might ask? well it's the guardian, of course

rules-based international order

# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 17:06

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Raskolnikov38 posted:

https://twitter.com/gslavic/status/1668355514340630538

man if only they had started the war by doing this instead of leeroy jenkins'ing into kiev

airborne doctrine working well thank you

# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 17:53

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Egg Moron posted:

the iraq war had so many good idiot grifters

remember Ahmed Chalabi just lying his rear end off to goad the US into giving him stupid amounts of power

Paul L Bremmer being a classic suit dummy in way over his head, doing that extreme debaathification and firing all the bus drivers and teachers and poo poo because they technically had to be in the party because they were a part of the civil service apparatus

heck of a job!

This is what happens when you get told how denazification worked by american public schools and never bothered to check the nato leadership yearbooks to see what actually happened with those guys

# ¿ Jun 16, 2023 02:25

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Futanari Damacy posted:

This was mostly Doug Feith who Tommy Franks called the dumbest motherfucker on the planet

# ¿ Jun 16, 2023 03:24

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Endman posted:

The secondary unit should be online within six months. It is currently undergoing preparation and should be operational within six months.

f r i e d m a n u n i t s

# ¿ Jun 16, 2023 08:04

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Seems pretty obvious that Russia maintaining a sustainable level of attrition in an open war is preferable to the non-war option which is NATO slowly strangles them to death, and they've already proved out that their economy is not going to just fall over and explode as the West was crowing would happen early on. They don't even need to actually cause the collapse of or take over Ukraine to fulfill their political objectives, they just need to a) be able to plausibly claim they're holding onto the separatist areas and Crimea, b) inflict attrition on Ukraine armed forces that they can't regenerate without a cease-fire, and c) not bleed themselves to death.

A bloody stalemated forever war seems better than losing the peace from the Russian side of the table at this point.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2023 17:44

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Mr SuperAwesome posted:

thats just a punisher style skull not a totenkopf and probably not a sonnenrad, its fine, no big deal

look below the punisher skull lol

never, ever fails

# ¿ Jun 20, 2023 01:57

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Majorian posted:

lol sharp eyes. It's like Where's Waldo.

Much like where's waldo you don't really need sharp eyes once you know that he's in every single picture

# ¿ Jun 20, 2023 02:58

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

BULBASAUR posted:

In their defense, its hard to stop once you get going. After forces are committed its tough to make changes on the fly especially if there are Big Plans involved

They should have known this last November when "lol BTGs suck so bad Russia stopped using them" was pretty widely reported in Western press

# ¿ Jun 20, 2023 06:11

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Frosted Flake posted:

I mean, people don�t know this, but so many weapons have been stripped out of Canadian Army formations that the primary antitank weapon is JDAM or Excalibur. Otherwise those guys are going to get turned into hamburger by BTRs and T-62s - in a way they wouldn�t in the 70�s-90�s.

Eryx is gone, TOW is gone, LAV TOW carriers are gone, ADATS is gone because those are all heavy (and old fashioned), where laser designators are cheap and lightweight.

The more I think about it, the more I think the west looked at rebuilding the armies of the 80�s when they came back from playing colonial police, balked at the cost, and so created this idea that we can still run around in MRAPs and call for air support at the first sign of trouble. It marries the 90�s theories with militaries that had their remaining Cold War kit stripped out of them and have only trained and practiced expeditionary warfare for an entire 25 year career.

In 1991, these armies were still heavy and mechanized, in 2003, they retained several weapons and organizations for a Cold War gone hot, which made endless tours to Afghanistan difficult. All of that equipment got the axe as �useless�. When 2008 and 2014 happened, for reasons beyond my ken, the idea was to believe that it didn�t change anything and our light expeditionary digital networked armies didn�t even need M113 equivalents because we could keep exactly the same forces and equipment and take on the Russian Army.

First because the Gulf War �proved� the Soviet Group of Forces in Germany would have been a cakewalk in our uncle�s day. Then, because Russia couldn�t afford to modernize. Then, because oh poo poo they did, BTGs are unproven. Then, because BTGs work, because we can defeat the BTG. Now, we think we can defeat a Motor Rifle Division essentially because we are conflating the militaries of Boris Yeltsin, Saddam Hussain, and the BTG, where - don�t know if this is the right word - the teleology is that we�re going to, because we chose this force concept, and so this concept will work regardless of any real world considerations.

I mean, lol it feels grim but M109 crews in II Corps had way better chances than I�d rate any 777 crew today if we get the war we have set up, but because our victory is inevitable through lightweight, digital, networked, and lol digging gun pits is heretical to mobile warfare (jfc) nobody is going to consider that we are teeing ourselves up to have whole formations exposed to fire without even tracked vehicles or any amount of heavy weapons because we believed our own bullshit (to justify not buying it when western armies returned from Iraq and Afghanistan).

That they also think this will work against the PLA. I mean, the BEF and French at least didn�t send troops armed and equipped along colonial policing duties to take on the Germans in August 1914. They were still hosed up but started with significantly less hubris imo.

sounds bad, we need more stealth (tm) precision strike weapons (tm) brought to you by lockheed (r)

# ¿ Jun 20, 2023 17:04

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 06:32

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Frosted Flake posted:

Shotguns are cheap, so search your feelings as to the proposed solutions.

sounds like it needs a digital fire control system with a helmet-mounted augmented reality optic

# ¿ Jun 20, 2023 17:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] another dawn is breaking in Mosciv and it's still Russian

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