USA - Wait, You're Telling Me There's Another Kind of Football?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > USA - Wait, You're Telling Me There's Another Kind of Football?

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Football or Football?
	Real Football
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ArmedZombie: Jun 6, 2004

Shrapnig posted:

Gregg did his job, he qualified for the World Cup and got out of the group stage. Thanks for all the memories.

He's tactically inept and woefully out of his depth outside of CONCACAF. Gareth Southgate shooting himself in the foot aside I don't think he managed a single good game.

Half the squad is playing regularly in the top four leagues in Europe and the step down in coaching and game management needs to change with that. The US mentality of trotting out these has-been players who were adequate coaches in MLS needs to go away. US Soccer is setup to fail if it continues to rely on itself to develop players and managers.

Fortunately the players have noticed this and are fleeing to Europe at the first opportunity, be it at 15 or as soon as they're old enough to leave MLS. The US will never develop a world class striker domestically, the coaching and the level of play is too low, and I'm hopeful the likes of Jordan Morris coming out of NCAA soccer and playing for the US are over. It's so obvious to see how technically and tactically stunted players like Morris are. NCAA soccer is by far the worst thing for the development of American players. It's 40 years behind the rest of the world.

as long as Americans try to play American soccer they will be terrible but us soccer won't faceup to that for another 20 years at least

# ? Dec 4, 2022 13:47

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 02:59

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

You should legitimately go for Van Bronckhorst and he�d do well. And he�d play Reyna.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 14:54

G-Hawk: Dec 15, 2003

Tortilla Maker posted:

Realistically? Tata Martino.

Successful with Atlanta. Had the Barcelona feather in his cap (not saying it was the prettiest of feathers).

But Mexico�considering how dysfunctional its FA is�got to him first.

I think there�s still a chance US can get him in 2024. He�s supposedly had a nice club-level gig lined up in Argentina for some time.

is this a troll post?

Absolutely pass.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 15:35

stab: Feb 12, 2003; To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high

Crazy Ted posted:

Okay so I've said this in other places, but for all his issues I would like someone to tell me what manager the USSF could have realistically hired in 2018 that would been able to take a US squad that was the second-youngest at the World Cup (Ghana 1st - exited at Group Stage), didn't even qualify for 2018, wasn't ranked in the top 10-12, didn't have any world-class forwards in the player pool, and breeze it into the quarterfinals or the semis because if you'll believe USMNT social media the Dutch team was just 26 overgrown handicapped children ripe for the taking.

John Herdman :drac:

# ? Dec 4, 2022 15:37

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

stab posted:

John Herdman

https://youtu.be/PTA7wiQX9K8

# ? Dec 4, 2022 15:39

G-Hawk: Dec 15, 2003

Shrapnig posted:

Gregg did his job, he qualified for the World Cup and got out of the group stage. Thanks for all the memories.

He's tactically inept and woefully out of his depth outside of CONCACAF. Gareth Southgate shooting himself in the foot aside I don't think he managed a single good game.

Half the squad is playing regularly in the top four leagues in Europe and the step down in coaching and game management needs to change with that. The US mentality of trotting out these has-been players who were adequate coaches in MLS needs to go away. US Soccer is setup to fail if it continues to rely on itself to develop players and managers.

Fortunately the players have noticed this and are fleeing to Europe at the first opportunity, be it at 15 or as soon as they're old enough to leave MLS. The US will never develop a world class striker domestically, the coaching and the level of play is too low, and I'm hopeful the likes of Jordan Morris coming out of NCAA soccer and playing for the US are over. It's so obvious to see how technically and tactically stunted players like Morris are. NCAA soccer is by far the worst thing for the development of American players. It's 40 years behind the rest of the world.

I don't agree Gregg is tactically inept, he is more so just kind of fine but I think has generally reoriented the team to head in the right direction. Fine may not be good enough next cycle but I doubt that most replacement options people throw out there would bring anything better to the table and a lot of them may do a worse job. It just feels like every cycle US soccer fans simultaneously complain the players are not good enough and a bunch of low skill MLS poo poo kickers, and then expect the manager to work miracles with those same players. We've never had the talent to compete beyond some plucky round of 16 (or QF when we draw Mexico) runs, but this young core is the first group that has a higher ceiling. But its still 1/2 a team, maybe closer to 1/4th a team depending on who you're counting.

I think there have been massive advancements in academies in the last decade or so, MLS academies and youth systems now are at least good enough to be a bridge for players to get to Europe. But yes, we're on the cusp of the end of the Jordan Morris type players between the gains in domestic development, increased European scouting and increase in young players moving to Europe earlier. I'm pretty optimistic we'll be closer to 15-20 deep by 2026 in terms of quality players, and probably better beyond that. I' m not sure if Berhalter is the best available person to manage, i'm not even sure if he wants to keep the job (he'll have options).

Also everyone has said it, but we really really need to elbow our way into Copa America because otherwise there will be no serious competition or measuring stick until june 2026. Which could also serve as a break point for whoever the manager is, if need be.

G-Hawk fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Dec 4, 2022

# ? Dec 4, 2022 16:00

ozmunkeh: Feb 28, 2008; hey guys what is happening in this thread

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

He should have been fired on the spot for that

should have been fired for showing up in those threads, jfc

# ? Dec 4, 2022 16:01

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

G-Hawk posted:

That is a very heroic re-telling of getting to the round of 16 and then relying on tim howard to prevent a several goal thrashing

Absolutely true, lol. We had an average striker in Dempsey, but had a world-class keeper that night. Enough defense to make those dozen or so shots on goal heroically savable. And a sitter for Wondolowski in extra time that could have pushed it into penalties. It's a funny old game. :rackem:

# ? Dec 4, 2022 16:28

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Clit dumpster

# ? Dec 4, 2022 16:36

barnold: Dec 16, 2011; what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot

matt turner still owns. difficult for him to hide his disgust with the defensive performance against NED in his post match interview and i'm glad he didn't give some variant of the goofy rear end "we're just happy to be here"

# ? Dec 4, 2022 16:40

whypick1: Dec 18, 2009; Just another jackass on the Internet

barnold posted:

matt turner still owns.

Indeed. Maybe he'll buck the post-Meola trend of "our best GK must be bald"...but if he shaved his head now I would understand.

So glad we didn't roll with Steffen this tourney.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 16:52

A Buffer Gay Dude: Oct 25, 2020

USA needs to just wait out Pep winning the CL at City

I�m not joking, he�ll do it (he�s hinted at it)

# ? Dec 4, 2022 17:52

Crazy Ted: Jul 29, 2003

A Buffer Gay Dude posted:

USA needs to just wait out Pep winning the CL at City

I�m not joking, he�ll do it (he�s hinted at it)

Only problem with Pep and the USMNT is that you'd have be sure to keep him away from Caleb Porter.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 19:10

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

Famethrowa posted:

blows my mind that smaller countries like SK and Japan seem to have grown better national teams then the US. not to take anything away from them, but their talent pool can't be any bigger. clearly its the "academy" system failing, but jeez. how can you grapple with that.

I mean, the US has always had an elite bald keeper and a solid midfield over the last 20 years or so. Its just been striker thats been a dumpster fire outside of McBride

# ? Dec 4, 2022 19:15

G-Hawk: Dec 15, 2003

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

I mean, the US has always had an elite bald keeper and a solid midfield over the last 20 years or so. Its just been striker thats been a dumpster fire outside of McBride

we started graham zusi against belgium. i don't think he'd even make the squad this year

# ? Dec 4, 2022 19:59

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

A Buffer Gay Dude posted:

USA needs to just wait out Pep winning the CL at City

I�m not joking, he�ll do it (he�s hinted at it)

Lol at the idea of these cloggers playing Pepball

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:12

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

G-Hawk posted:

we started graham zusi against belgium. i don't think he'd even make the squad this year

that should have been Landon, but Klinsmann was a charlatan.

Donovan, Dempsey, Adams, the US can produce Dudes at midfield

Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 4, 2022

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:13

A Buffer Gay Dude: Oct 25, 2020

Vegetable posted:

Lol at the idea of these cloggers playing Pepball

The midfield in 4 years can do it

Save this post

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:42

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

G-Hawk posted:

we started graham zusi against belgium. i don't think he'd even make the squad this year

There's one of these in every squad.

Ben Olsen started a World Cup match, Kellyn Acosta saw minutes. Just utter poo poo that shouldn't be anywhere near the national team playing in World Cups.

I don't know what the gently caress Shaq Moore was but he played himself into never getting picked again.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 23:08

G-Hawk: Dec 15, 2003

Shrapnig posted:

There's one of these in every squad.

Ben Olsen started a World Cup match, Kellyn Acosta saw minutes. Just utter poo poo that shouldn't be anywhere near the national team playing in World Cups.

I don't know what the gently caress Shaq Moore was but he played himself into never getting picked again.

i'd rate acosta above those two, but yeah, thats my point really. And in past cycles there were more like 15 of them in the squad. if you want sustained success you need more than 2 players (or these days like 7 players) who belong on the same pitch as their opponent. Ain't nobody in the quarterfinals this year whos squad is worse than the U.S., depending on the next few days every single quarterfinal team may have clear talent edges. No manager is making a deep run until there's a deep squad to do with it...which I think we're headed toward.

The closeness of the sport and bits of luck have somewhat obscured that the U.S. teams of the past were hilariously outclassed, and even if wondo finishes or whatever bounce goes our way they're probably going out in the next round. This team is a lot closer than we were in 2014 or before, but we're still running out too many players who aren't good enough to be a threat to do anything beyond scrap into the early knockout rounds. Tl;dr Its the players, not the tactics.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 00:06

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

Shrapnig posted:

There's one of these in every squad.

Ben Olsen started a World Cup match, Kellyn Acosta saw minutes. Just utter poo poo that shouldn't be anywhere near the national team playing in World Cups.

I don't know what the gently caress Shaq Moore was but he played himself into never getting picked again.

Can't believe you left Maguire out of this list

# ? Dec 5, 2022 01:10

Wonton: Jul 5, 2012

joepinetree posted:

MLS is a joke league. It includes, frequently in the same team, players making 65k a year and has beens making 8 million.

Can you imagine Ronaldo playing in MLS after 40? Beckham really boosted soccer in US and I can�t wait for the MLS to mature some more for domestic stars, just like Japan with their J league and Korea with their domestic league. I�m sure once USMNT starts playing against the South American teams and Central American teams, the skill cap can go higher.

On the bright side, if US wanted to, they can have their national team train a year before the world cup starts whereas other countries can�t afford to pull their players from the big European leagues.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 08:51

psyer: Mar 26, 2013

Wonton posted:

On the bright side, if US wanted to, they can have their national team train a year before the world cup starts whereas other countries can�t afford to pull their players from the big European leagues.

That did not really work out for the Qatar National Team.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 09:36

de curry GOAT: Oct 23, 2005

Wonton posted:

Can you imagine Ronaldo playing in MLS after 40? Beckham really boosted soccer in US and I can�t wait for the MLS to mature some more for domestic stars, just like Japan with their J league and Korea with their domestic league. I�m sure once USMNT starts playing against the South American teams and Central American teams, the skill cap can go higher.

On the bright side, if US wanted to, they can have their national team train a year before the world cup starts whereas other countries can�t afford to pull their players from the big European leagues.

J-League was founded a few years earlier than MLS and is just as mid. I haven�t watched a single minute of K-League ball, but I�m 100% sure its fucken mid too

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:12

de curry GOAT: Oct 23, 2005

I don�t know what y�all been watching but the USA look genuinely talented. the only skill gap they have is a forward that can score sum fackin goals, but really, every national team has deficiencies. They desperately need a coach. A Real Coach. Go get Bielsa USMINT

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:27

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:

Can't believe you left Maguire out of this list

Why would I talk about Harry Maguire in the USA thread?

# ? Dec 5, 2022 11:53

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

Wonton posted:

On the bright side, if US wanted to, they can have their national team train a year before the world cup starts whereas other countries can�t afford to pull their players from the big European leagues.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:49

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

I'm almost certain that's exactly what the US did in 1990 and 1994 with stunning results

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:50

whypick1: Dec 18, 2009; Just another jackass on the Internet

Not specifically for the World Cup but there was a Team America in the old NASL.

tl;dr - Only lasted one season, finished last.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:57

Moktaro: Aug 3, 2007; I value call my nuts.

Mainwaring posted:

You all want a word class coach? I've three words for you: Big Sam Allardyce

Up pops a smiling Jose Mourinho.

(please no, he'd ruin everything with his hate for young players)

# ? Dec 5, 2022 21:50

sticksy: May 26, 2004; Nap Ghost

Moktaro posted:

Up pops a smiling Jose Mourinho.

(please no, he'd ruin everything with his hate for young players)

Would enjoy either of these very ironically given how awful it would be and how the USMNT and media establishment would try to gloss over the dire style of play and likely mediocre results

# ? Dec 6, 2022 00:48

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

I again cast my vote for Hugo Perez, former NASL guy, former U.S. midfielder, current manager of El Salvador.

# ? Dec 6, 2022 01:03

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

If I were to pick a coach for the USMNT, I'd pick Sebasti�n Beccacece. Would very likely say yes, and is best at making smaller teams punch way above their weight. Like people in the Sampaoli tradition, not great at handling stars or being favorites, but whenever he's worked at middle of the road teams he made them way overperform.

# ? Dec 6, 2022 01:07

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

joepinetree posted:

If I were to pick a coach for the USMNT, I'd pick Sebasti�n Beccacece. Would very likely say yes, and is best at making smaller teams punch way above their weight. Like people in the Sampaoli tradition, not great at handling stars or being favorites, but whenever he's worked at middle of the road teams he made them way overperform.

That was my take on Perez coaching El Salvador this past cycle. They were very skilled, disciplined, yet played creatively. He's got vintage cred. too. Never heard of your guy.

# ? Dec 6, 2022 01:23

blue footed boobie: Sep 14, 2012; UEFA SUPREMACY

There�s only one man who can lead the US now:

# ? Dec 6, 2022 02:00

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

The USMNT should hire Steve Clarke and take him off our hands

# ? Dec 6, 2022 03:10

King of False Promises: Jul 31, 2000

Thomas Rongen could do a job

# ? Dec 6, 2022 04:05

Mainwaring: Jun 22, 2007; Disco is not dead! Disco is LIFE!

Yeah forget big Sam, watching Jose interact with the us media would be far funnier

# ? Dec 6, 2022 12:04

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

King of False Promises posted:

Thomas Rongen could do a job

You'd have to look so far up his own rear end in a top hat to find him though

# ? Dec 6, 2022 13:00

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 02:59

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

It�s time for Felix Magath to whip these boys into shape imo

# ? Dec 6, 2022 13:54

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