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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I think the voice could have been set up as a legislated entity This has already been done, repeatedly, since the 1970s. The LNP always shut it down when they regain power. BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:without changing the constitution in a way that gives one ethnic group a structural difference
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Oct 15, 2023 02:40
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lih posted:if you really think that some hypothetical dutton government wouldn't do what it wanted with the voice, just because its existence is in the constitution, then that's incredibly naive. The entire point of this long, long exercise was to get something into the constitution. It started way way back in 2010 when Gillard appointed the Expert Panel on Constitutional Recognition of Indigenous Australians, which lead to the 2012 Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples, which lead to the 2015 Referendum Council, which lead to the 2017 First Nations National Constitutional Convention who issued the Uluru Statement from the Heart which proposed the Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum ..... which Turnbull pretty much immediately shot down. Morrison actually refloated it but only as a legislative change and not a constitutional change (which, remember, was the entire point) but then Albanese promised to bring it to referendum if he was elected, which brought us to yesterday. 13 years of committees following committees following committees and endless bureaucratic bullshit, all leading to exactly nothing.
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Oct 15, 2023 04:29
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Budzilla posted:The system works. We'll have to start the process all over again. Yesterday was a terrible day for Indigenous peoples but a real red letter day for committee aficionados
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Oct 15, 2023 05:46
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Gorfob posted:Even amongst strong union circles in nursing I've had to tell people to shut the gently caress up about their dumb as gently caress No views because they have no idea how many of thier colleagues are Aboriginal. One of my friends is an indigenous nurse in regional Australia, they're having a rough loving time today. Oh and they're also trans and the LNP have announced that trans rights are their next big target  quote:Coalition frontbencher, Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, says scrutinising gender affirming treatments and protecting the rights of women and girls will be on her “list of priorities” after the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum next month.
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Oct 15, 2023 07:10
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ColtMcAsskick posted:Don't want to discount the obvious racism but the polling from NT is currently emphatically No, to the point I don't think you can wave it away as racism... lih posted:the mobile booths for the remote communities haven't reported back yet & they're where about 40% of the nt indigenous population is. Remote NT communities almost all voted strongly for yes https://twitter.com/AntonyGreenElec/status/1713353768706928912 NT only has two electorates, Solomon (includes Darwin and Palmerston) which voted 65% no and Lingiari (Alice Springs, Katherine and pretty much all the rural/remote regions, with around a third of the votes being remote communities) which voted 55% no. If you looked at just the votes from the non-remote parts of the territory I think the no vote would be the highest in the entire country, even worse than Queensland
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Oct 15, 2023 07:55
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lih posted:it was a pretty flawed proposal - it was designed to be powerless to appease conservatives but didn't even get them on board, while it being powerless meant it was difficult to convey to the average person how it would actually improve anything Also the LNP's one-two punch of white-anting the debate with ridiculous conspiracy theories and then pushing the line "If you don't know vote No" was actually pretty shrewd and worked extremely well for them, even if they only blundered into the tactic by accident. It gave all the 'underlying racism' voters an extremely easy out by telling them they didn't have to think too hard about any of the issues at hand and if they ever found themselves feeling even a tiny bit conflicted about voting no that wasn't because of any personal flaw that required self-reflection but an external flaw in the referendum process
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Oct 15, 2023 13:54
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ColtMcAsskick posted:Yeah I was off target, evidently strong support in regional, majority Aboriginal communities. Elsewhere not so much. The situation in WA was pretty much the same: quote:By contrast there were just five polling places which showed the same level of support for the proposal – all but one of them mobile polling teams which went into remote communities in the massive seat of Durack, which stretches from WA's very northern tip down to Northam, north of Perth. Meanwhile, deep rural farming regions voted hard no quote:Looking just at polling places where 100 or more formal votes have been counted as of around midday Sunday local time, there were 97 locations where at least 80 per cent of voters opposed the Voice.
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Oct 15, 2023 14:00
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...... and to absolutely no one's surprise, Dutton has immediately backed down on his commitment to hold a second referendum to add Indigenous recognition to the constitutionquote:"I think that [constitutional recognition] is important, but I think it's clear that the Australian public is probably over the referendum process for some time."
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Oct 16, 2023 02:30
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BrigadierSensible posted:The use of US style misinformation campaigns over facebook/ticktock etc. worked with the culture war on race, now they are going to do it on gender. freebooter posted:They've been pushing this just as long as the US and UK have and Australians don't seem particularly interested. Even in the US it only really gains traction in the red states, for obvious reasons. Scott Morrison tried to stoke the TERF fire back in August 2019 when he threw a fit about gender neutral bathrooms in parliament house but it didn't gain a lot of traction. The LNP were super keen to spring into action on the issue, though: quote:Internal emails obtained under freedom of information laws – but heavily redacted – reveal deputy and assistant secretaries worked into the night after Mr Morrison seized on a tweet by a high-profile journalist and insisted the "ridiculous" bathroom signs be taken down. They obviously had to put a pin in that all throughout covid when they had a tastier culture war to fight but now that the pandemic has mostly dropped out of the news cycle they'll be getting back to business. Australia also has a growing number of conspiracy weirdos and they're always obsessed with crazy pedophilia accusations so they'll no doubt go hand in hand with TERFS. Here's a QANON protester in Melbourne during the 2020 lockdowns: 
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Oct 17, 2023 06:38
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GoldStandardConure posted:Really great way to make folks in WA feel like their vote mattered. Given how the vote went in WA, it barely made any difference anyway. 
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Oct 17, 2023 15:28
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This Twitter account ran the numbers on which polling places leaned yes/no in the referendum, this won't come as a surprise to anyone here https://twitter.com/DeadInLongRun/status/1714112545534218677 Links to their sources here
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Oct 19, 2023 05:56
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Lube Enthusiast posted:Put a chicken wire canopy over every road and everyone can simply drive around in dodgem cars Fire all police road patrol officers, replace them with bogans who will jump onto the back of your car, grab the steering wheel out of your hand and steer you back into your lane whenever you gently caress up
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Oct 19, 2023 09:21
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Look, it's real easy. Make it a law that every time an EV recharges the owner has to buy the equivalent of a tankful of fuel and dump it down the drain. That way everyone's happy!
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Oct 19, 2023 17:07
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:a key difference is that despite both campaigns being largely taken over by political misinformation one of them actually had a clear majority of support and one of them didnt The Indigenous Voice To Parliament used to have a clear majority of support up until just a few months before the referendum date, according to all the polls:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Australian_Indigenous_Voice_referendum E: note that before the federal election in '22 it was polling the same way, it would have looked like an easy win for the ALP E2: for comparison, polls on same sex marriage were ~60% yes, ~30-35% no and ~5-10% undecided from 2007 right up until the vote in 2017: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_Australia#Summary_table Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 10:11
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:and fwiw i dont think its necessarily relevant to compare those two sets of data given the undecided pollees was much higher than the same sex marriage plebecite. Even when you take the undecided voters into account the support for the Voice was ~55-60% in the early days, so at least 20% of the population flipped from yes to no at some point. There's been a few polls asking why people switched to no:  https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/voice-support-falls-as-frustration-and-familiarity-rise-20230924-p5e73t ... but I don't put a lot of faith in people answering that question with complete honesty or serious self-reflection. The top response doesn't even make sense, people could still vote yes even if they thought other issues had higher priority.
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Oct 21, 2023 12:53
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I get they don't actually mean it and they just can't say what they want to, but why is divisiveness actually supposed to be bad? The 'divisiveness' they're talking about (making it easier for a minority get their opinions heard/become more visible in the general discussion) is obviously a good thing but if they reframe is as 'divisiveness' that makes it sound like a bad thing. They're appropriating a buzzword because it makes a good soundbyte even if it doesn't make any sense, same as "So much for the tolerant left!" etc etc. Division is bad! If you support them then you support divisiveness, didn't you say you hate divisiveness???? So much for the inclusive left! Pushing the 'threat' of divisiveness is an old old conservative tactic, here's a pamphlet from the 1910s urging people not to support women's suffrage for the same reason:  It'll cause competition (divisiveness)!! It's all just a waste of money! Some women oppose this measure and we have to listen to them as well! Vague bad things could happen?!?? My favourite reason there is "80% of women are married so the can only double up on their husband's vote or cancel it out!" Uh, yes? That's how democracy works, people vote on stuff? These fucker have been gishgalloping for a long time.
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Oct 22, 2023 12:18
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GoldStandardConure posted:being under petticoat rule sounds rad as gently caress, where do i sign up? Oh yeah that's another tactic, the old "But what if they get in charge and treat us the same way we treated them?" bullshit we saw in the lead up to the referendum with all the bizarre conspiracies that the Voice would mean that white Australians would lose their backyards or wouldn't be allowed to visit the beach
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Oct 22, 2023 13:48
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The Divine Orator posted:Lmao so after being in processing since may, and jumping through endless hoops and month long silences, including having to perform mutual obligation hamster wheel poo poo for literally nothing, centerlink just rejected my claim today for no given reason. Best I can figure is they slipped an extra task into my queue without informing me anywhere (because i guess its also my responsibility to be just refreshing my 5 month old claim status every day now as opposed to something ridiculous like sending me a text or an email or even an internal mygov message lol) and used that as an excuse to kill my claim. Literally had to happen the week I'm about to land a new job too jist as one final insult i guess. Really cannot be understated how much the system has gone from malicious to flat out non functional in the past year lol. I was always 100% compliant but I would regularly get my payments cancelled because someone would forgot to tick a box to say that I'd attended a mandatory activity and the system would automatically eject me. I'd have to ring up and sit on hold for [x] minutes until I could speak to someone (sometimes several someones, being made to wait on hold each time I was transferred) and convince them I had actually been physically present at the right place at the right time. Whether or not that process went smoothly was entirely dependent on the person I spoke to and their mood at the time, I found that if I spoke to someone and got told "Sorry, it's not possible to fix this" but then rang back and spoke to a different person the answer might be "Oh yeah I can fix that right now, gimme 30 seconds" One time I had an ongoing issue with my jobseeker provider and it took months to sort it out, and the only reason it got settled at all was that the office manager just happened to walk past when I was talking with my jobseeker rep and overheard the conversation and went "Wait, what? Let me look into that" and five minutes later she came back and went "Uh so that entire thing was a huge mess which would take too long to sort out, in the end I just marked you as 'complete' and exited you from the program." hooman posted:2. We regret to inform you the non-functionality is also malice. I never really appreciated the phrase "The purpose of a system is what it does" until the majority of Centrelink's functions got outsourced to the private sector
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Oct 23, 2023 06:07
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meteor9 posted:During this time I expect to be given no help or direction on what sort of work is suitable for a person with MS and powerful anxiety, be threatened with forced applications to warehouse work again, The Jobseeker reps have quotas they need to fill every month for people they send to job interviews or sign up to training sessions and if you're technically physically capable of doing the work they'll try and strongarm you into it regardless of whether it'll improve your outcomes or have a chance of getting the job. Their manager is hassling them to fulfill their quota and you're either wasting their time or helping them hit their targets, if they try to sign you up for something and you argue about it they'll get real frustrated about you making things difficult for them. One of them actually said that to my face one time, he'd already found another job somewhere else and had stopped caring about maintaining kayfabe. They kept sending me to interviews for customer-facing jobs even though I'm a slovenly middleaged goony goon and the last person anyone would hire to be the 'face' of their nice company, lol. But you couldn't walk into the interview and go "Look, we both know you're not going to hire me so and this is a waste of both our time so how about we just skip all this?" because if the Jobseeker provider found out that you 'threw' the interview they'd cut off your payments lickety-split, so the interviewer and I always had to politely go through the motions even though we both knew the outcome as soon as they laid eyes on me.
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Oct 23, 2023 07:19
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The Herald Sun published a lovely cartoon by Mark Knight depicting Vic premier Jacinta Allan in the nude and pretty much most people went "Ugh, can we not?" but I've seen a few idiots trying to devil's advocate it. I saw one guy dredging up Larry Pickering's nude political calendars from the 1970 & 80s as some sort of precedent for "satirical nudity" which I guess shows we haven't come very far at all. Also Pickering was a convicted scam artist and unrepentant hateful bigot all the way up until his death in 2018 so if he's the best guy you can come up with to support your argument then  Wikipedia posted:On 10 February 2017, at a speech for the far-right Q Society, Pickering denounced Muslims and homosexuals, saying "I can't stand Muslims. If they are in the same street as me, I start shaking. They are not all bad [because] they do chuck pillow-biters off buildings."
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Oct 24, 2023 18:35
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hooman posted:
Well there's your problem
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Oct 25, 2023 07:41
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My favourite local "Oops we accidentally did a costume racism" story was this:quote:A private school in Alice Springs has apologised after a student who dressed as Adolf Hitler for a Book Week event was named "best dressed". That was a lot longer ago though 2016, lol
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Oct 26, 2023 02:53
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NPR Journalizard posted:Apparently the ABC has just handed over a bunch of footage from the Disrupt Burrup investigation to the cops. Just yesterday they were still insisting they wouldn't reveal their confidential sources and were negotiating with the police over how much they'd give them but today they're refusing to clarify exactly what they handed over, which is not a great look
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Oct 27, 2023 09:42
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Recoome posted:I reckon give it at least another 20 or 30 years for the next referendum - it’s not surprising that the cons backflipped on any idea of constitutional recognition and watering down any bipartisan engagement on it. I think a stack of people saw this coming if No won. The last successful referendum was back in 1977, and only 8 of the 45 referendums we've ever had have been successful. The common element in those eight was that they all had bipartisan support before they went to the polls, I can't see that happening again in the foreseeable future.
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Oct 29, 2023 00:46
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Looks like he got those numbers from this paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282293791_Norms_for_the_Standard_Progressive_Matrices_in_the_Gaza_Strip One of the authors is a well known racist, eugenicist and white nationalist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn
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Oct 29, 2023 06:01
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gay picnic defence posted:I think the key to winning a referendum is making the campaign about getting that bipartisan support, and only having a vote once both parties have agreed on the wording of the amendment. Peter Dutton isn't a real big "bipartisan support" kinda guy.  Turnbull was probably their best bet out of all the most recent LNP leaders but he dismissed the Uluru Statement From The Heart results because they recommended constitutional change so I don't think he would've backed the referendum either.
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Oct 29, 2023 13:11
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GrandTheftAutism posted:My progressive No vote was based on my belief that I saw the Voice not as a pathway to Treaty, but more as a milquetoast replacement for same, and I was not alone in that view. Bucky Fullminster posted:If we couldn't get this then we're definitely not getting a Treaty, I think your logic and reasoning are deeply flawed. I said elsewhere that voting Yes would pretty much stall all current movement towards Treaty and push the cause back 10 years (the ALP would just keep pointing to the Voice and parroting "Look at the huge victory we achieved! What more do you want???" and the LNP and Nats and One Nation etc would just dig in harder) , but voting No would cement the idea that the general population isn't ready for this discussion and that would push the cause back 20 years. My Yes vote was a bullshit 'harm reduction' realpolitik choice, but neither outcome was favorable. People who wanted a Treaty were getting screwed whatever the outcome. A Perfect Twist posted:Most of Australia thought the way you do but that still means they were misinformed and the Coalition leaned into this ("If you don't know, vote no"). I'm still mad that worked as well as it did, but not really surprised. I guess the only way to counter it would have been pushing the message "Voting no is picking a side, if you're genuinely not sure you can 'abstain' by voting informal" but there wasn't really anyone in a good position to get that message out. Also I guess the AEC would have been real mad at anyone instructing people to deliberately gently caress up their vote. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 01:03
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Recoome posted:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-27/neo-nazi-hiker-attack-thomas-sewell-jacob-hersant/103031582 Follow up on this: when the press were interviewing these dickheads after that hearing and at one point they said "Heil Hitler!" and Hersant started to raise his arm to do the Nazi salute but went "Oh wait, that's illegal now isn't it?  " and stopped halfway. Looks like the cops are going to charge him for it anyway: https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/white-supremacist-facing-charges-after-allegedly-performing-nazi-salute-20231102-p5egx3.htmlSuck poo poo, nazi!
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Nov 3, 2023 05:50
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We've had a series of legislation-driven Indigenous Voices To Parliament since the 1970s which the Liberals have always ignored (also the ALP for the most part, lol) and dismantled, it's been a weird stumbling block that we keep returning to over and over.
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Nov 4, 2023 12:05
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:For the majority of the Soviet Union's existence Australia had the White Australia policy Also during most of that period Indigenous Australians didn't have voting rights, were restricted by anti-miscegenation laws in some states on who they were allowed to marry, couldn't be paid more than a certain amount if employed and even then they could instead be paid in tobacco, food & clothing or have their wages withheld indefinitely, could be forcibly confined to an 'Aboriginal reserve' or institution without a court order, were banned from entering certain cities without a permit, etc etc Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 03:31
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The school to military industrial complex pipeline
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Nov 5, 2023 04:57
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BBJoey posted:Furthermore the greens voted against the CPRS Turnbull's support for the CPRS is why we ended up with Tony Abbott as PM, the Greens were simply trying to avoid that future coming into effect
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Nov 5, 2023 14:39
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Cartoon posted:Well fortunately there is something to make the racist drop kicks rage incoherently for a while. The John Howard era of Australian politics seems like ancient history but it was only 16 years ago that his PM-ship ended and there's a LOT of residual bullshit from that era still chugging along, and indefinite immigration detention is one of the worst
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Nov 9, 2023 03:25
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Non Compos Mentis posted:is everyone ready for culture war christmas??? Here's an earlier tweet with some  "added context", lolhttps://twitter.com/AustralianJA/status/1722104369825697823
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Nov 9, 2023 08:14
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hooman posted:Hearing woodside ads on podcasts saying the only way to generate power at night for lights is to use natural gas. I know that the gag they're trying for is "solar power doesn't work at night hurf durf" (batteries, mother fucker) but coal, hydro and wind all generate power 24/7 so it doesn't even work on that level
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Nov 14, 2023 09:26
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:I don't think i've ever seen housing this bad. Yeah I've got a friend up in Sydney trying to find a rental before his current lease ends and he's in deep poo poo Apparently it's not uncommon to see enclosed balconies being sub-let as bedrooms  
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Nov 16, 2023 17:53
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The Artificial Kid posted:The drag queen story hour thing is bad enough in the US, but they absolutely need to gently caress off with that poo poo in a country that has an actual history of pantomime, and where Priscilla was made. The crossdressing aspect has never been the issue, they've never had a problem with The Footy Show or Barry Humphries putting on a dress & wig and doing a risque performance full of double entendres on national TV in front of all the kids. (As an aside, note also that the actors portraying drag queens in Priscilla were also all hetero men.) The 'problem' with drag is that it's an empowerment of LGBTQ+ people and they're fighting against people trying to 'normalise' that. They know that general homophobia is not going to fly any more so they're picking and choosing their targets more carefully, targeting drag queens and trans people and claiming they're trying to protect kids or the sanctity of women's sports or keep rapists out of women's toilets because they know those topics have better optics. They're like the raptors in Jurassic Park, constantly checking the fence for weak points so they can break out
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Nov 24, 2023 03:31
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hooman posted:
I agreed to do a jobseeker training course this week, when I went to the appointment they handed me a binder full of available course and told me I had to pick one and I said "None of these are in any fields I'm interested in?" and they told me that didn't matter, I still had to do a 4 week training course even if I had zero interest in whatever it was about. I picked the one that seemed the least annoying and they said they'd arrange it all for me and that was the last I heard about it. The course was supposed to start on Monday but if they don't tell me where the course is being held then that's not my fault, is it? I just rang them up now to ask about it and after getting passed around a few times and put on hold for a while they told me "We're looking at new times we can sign you up to the course"
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Nov 29, 2023 05:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:they're apparently among the better 'employment providers'. When I had to do a mutual obligation activity with my previous jobseeker provider they ran in-house 'classes' where they'd put a few dozen of us in a room three days a week and lecture us for several hours. The first week was the usual low effort bullshit but when we turned up the second week they handed out the course notes for the day and we went "Hey, we did this exact lesson last week" and they went "Yep, and we're doing it again today!" I sat patiently through that 'class' and then went home, phoned Centrelink and got transferred over to a different provider. They get extra funding for running these mutual obligation activities, any education that might happen as a result is purely coincidental.
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Nov 29, 2023 05:49
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Non Compos Mentis posted:yeah bragging about getting that many dates only to turn the women down makes him sound like a volcel He was catfishing them with fake photos of male models so he wouldn't have been able to follow through on the dates even if he'd changed his mind. Apparently it's called "chadfishing"
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Dec 6, 2023 11:48
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