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feedmyleg posted:What are some more obscure older sci-fi shows with great production design and world-building? I've been watching Space Precinct 2040 and the world in it is so well-designed it has me craving more shows that really go all out with it. Ideally mid-90s or before, but open. Blake's 7, a classic with huge ambition on a sub-70s Doctor Who budget. Tells a complete and compelling story despite multiple changes in cast and production difficulties.
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Jan 2, 2023 23:11
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Timby posted:I mentioned this in the last thread: Yellowstone is boomer catnip because it's basically Dallas (which, you may recall, was the biggest show on TV in the '70s and '80s), except instead of everyone fighting over control of a ranch that's on top of oil, everyone's fighting over control of a ranch in Montana. I went to my mom's for New Years dinner and she was watching Yellowstone. The ten minutes of it that I watched showcased four separate cuts to different shots of cowboys sitting on fences in exactly the same pose you would imagine. Then it ended with some guy who didn't have a drawl in his accent plotting to murder the governor or whatever because he doesn't think he can beat him in a fair election.
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Jan 2, 2023 23:32
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Hughmoris posted:https://twitter.com/FilmUpdates/status/1609996770787860483 Oh no! Now what'll I watch between 1883 and 1923? (Too many shows with just years as the title lately)
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Jan 2, 2023 23:40
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Happy New Year, everyone! I made a separate thread for Our Flag Means Death since we were posting about it in the What We Do in the Shadows thread and that’ll probably get confusing: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4020890&perpage=40&noseen=1
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Jan 3, 2023 00:09
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After the way 1899's last episode ended I feel like getting canceled was a mercy kill, honestly.fez_machine posted:Blake's 7, a classic with huge ambition on a sub-70s Doctor Who budget. Tells a complete and compelling story despite multiple changes in cast and production difficulties. I cannot stress enough that Blakes 7 would look at the budget 70s/80s Doctor Who had and sigh,"God I wish we had that much money." Loved the show to death but holy poo poo was it low budget.
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Jan 3, 2023 00:20
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Jerusalem posted:After the way 1899's last episode ended I feel like getting canceled was a mercy kill, honestly. Eeesh I still remember the green painted bubble wrap from an early 4th Doctor episode, I cannot imagine how much worse Blake's 7 budget could be.
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Jan 3, 2023 00:47
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Turbinosamente posted:Eeesh I still remember the green painted bubble wrap from an early 4th Doctor episode, I cannot imagine how much worse Blake's 7 budget could be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCTbeeCDueg You can tell they're not in a studio with nothing but a trolley and a chair because there's a pot plant, so it MUST be a futuristic space station that houses the most advanced computer in all of history!
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Jan 3, 2023 01:16
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Jerusalem posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCTbeeCDueg To be completely fair, this doesn’t look that much cheaper than your average Davison or Colin Baker-era Classic Who serial.
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Jan 3, 2023 01:31
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the Twin Peaks episode of Psych rocks. good thing too because I was getting a little tired of the show in its fifth season
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Jan 3, 2023 03:41
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I got really into making cinnamon pies for a while after watching that. I should make some again, they’re not that hard to bake.
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Jan 3, 2023 03:43
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Big Mean Jerk posted:To be completely fair, this doesn’t look that much cheaper than your average Davison or Colin Baker-era Classic Who serial. Yeah, maybe they were able to sneak in after Doctor Who got done shooting. They hid Paul Darrow in a wheelie bin. Gareth Thomas was there by coincidence because he was dumpster diving for the scraps left over from catering (sammies from the local gas station).
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Jan 3, 2023 03:50
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I’m not sure why people think that Netflix has unlimited money, and don’t have to care about ratings. All I know about 1899 is that it looks expensive, if the global interest wasn’t big enough then you have to make a financial decision as to whether it’s worth renewing. It’s a shame, but it’s no different than when networks have to make that same choice.
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Jan 3, 2023 03:57
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I've only seen bad reviews of 1899 as well while Dark was universally loved.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:05
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Aces High posted:I bet Dominic West would've been great in Rome, I could see him working as a one-and-done like Sejanus  Servilia's ending is still one of the most powerful TV scenes I can think of, need to watch it all again.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:06
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I think it's sad that 1899 was cancelled, but eh, whatever, not the most amazing show ever made. My concern with Netflix, though, is that they don't really seem to have any quality control and their systems are completely opaque. They just fire poo poo at the wall to see what sticks, and it's not clear if shows stick or fall because of the company's internal politics (which are apparently a bit insane), or viewing figures, or budget concerns, or algorithm nonsense, etc. etc. There's a better world out there where these massive streaming companies spend time developing quality productions and nurture a reliable and positive relationship with their customers, but that's not Netflix's model. It's pretty much only Apple's model, and even they're chasing the whale of blockbuster television.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:12
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Chubby Henparty posted:Servilia's ending is still one of the most powerful TV scenes I can think of, need to watch it all again. Pretty sure that was written by Scott Buck.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:13
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Open Source Idiom posted:I think it's sad that 1899 was cancelled, but eh, whatever, not the most amazing show ever made. There was a bit that stuck with me from a comedian on a podcast, I think I've written about it here before, where he was helping a friend make some little Netflix series or one-off episode of an anthology. He said that Netflix was amazing because you'd get huge budgets with no oversight. But also that as soon as they thought you had loser stink on you, your show was done. Whatever project he was working on (it was such a nothing-thing that I don't remember) wanted a little help to punch up some jokes and see if they could figure out what was missing. Basically just a few phone calls or connections to industry people, and they got stonewalled and told to just finish up whatever they had, after Netflix had already sunk a ton of money in. I would take it with a grain of salt, but the guy behind Norsemen said the same thing. If you missed that story, they had clearly abandoned his show until he did his own targeted ad campaign to generate a little buzz and then suddenly Netflix loved it and set up a bunch of meetings. And literally all it took was "Hey, maybe we should run some Facebook ads in the midwest where they like Viking poo poo." Oasx posted:I’m not sure why people think that Netflix has unlimited money, and don’t have to care about ratings. Bigger issue is that it's like what Fox did back in the...gonna say 2000s. They became the network that canceled shows people like and it made it impossible to get anyone to care about a new series. One hell of a vicious cycle. And at some point it's also on Netflix to come up with reasonable budgets and not greenlight shows that are doomed from the start. They're doing the worst of both worlds where they're burning a shitload of money but we're not even getting cool poo poo out of it. Not a new problem for them though.
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Jan 3, 2023 05:19
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I helped send Snickers bars to the network back when Veronica Mars was cancelled, so I perfectly understand the frustration of seeing something you love get cancelled. But something can still be good even though it never got a proper ending, there are plenty of great shows that only got one season that I still like.
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Jan 3, 2023 06:55
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https://youtu.be/7mMcugQTjHs I cannot describe how batshit this show is. Combine Nathan Fielder, American Movie, and series director Jason Woliner’s previous work, and you’re maybe a little of the way there.
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Jan 3, 2023 10:51
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Anyone check out Kaleidoscope?
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Jan 3, 2023 13:56
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MiddleOne posted:Anyone check out Kaleidoscope? I watched a few episodes, haven't finished, it's got some weird tonal shifts and sometimes doesn't have the budget to pull off what it wants to do but it's generally pretty good crime fiction. A lot of repetition of basic relationship details though.
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Jan 3, 2023 14:03
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fez_machine posted:A lot of repetition of basic relationship details though. That'll be because it gives everyone a random episode order (except for the last two episodes)
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Jan 3, 2023 15:19
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Open Source Idiom posted:
As opposed to which transparent, open streaming platform?
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Jan 3, 2023 15:37
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Finally started Yellowjackets and I'm hooked! Came for the lord of the flies, stayed for the lord of the flies: All Growed Up drama that's turning into some weird conspiracy mystery deal, and still trying to tell if there's supernatural elements or just deep trauma. Most interesting character so far is Misty, omg, what a loving little psycho baby serial killer! But also somehow kinda adorable and funny at the same time, which just makes her scarier. You know she's a serial killer type really early on, watching her torture a pet and all, but her sneaky little manipulative ways and impulses totally rule her life. Chopping off the leg and being all fascinated by the gore, poisoning the coach, tripping his crutches, sabotaguing the blackbox, and then in the present day trying to control, cajole, manipulate, stalk, spy on the others. Plus her job as an elder abuser. I can't recall a character this gleefully and unashamedly evil in such a casual way! I'm really curious to see how they get to the point of ritualistic mask wearing cannibalism, totally see the cannibalism happening in winter but unless the christian and oracle start making their own religion not sure where the ritual mask stuff will come from. and of course the weird symbols and possible sentient menacing Place, those are fun. So far my only complaint is that all of the young cast have believable adult versions, except for Natalie, who took me several episodes before it clicked she was supposed to be the scene kid, just completely opposite head/face shapes and it sticks out because everyone else you can pretty much tell immediately.Open Source Idiom posted:My concern with Netflix, though, is that they don't really seem to have any quality control and their systems are completely opaque. They just fire poo poo at the wall to see what sticks, and it's not clear if shows stick or fall because of the company's internal politics (which are apparently a bit insane), or viewing figures, or budget concerns, or algorithm nonsense, etc. etc. I figure even the decision makers at Netflix don't have complete transparency of what's going on, whatever algorithms are in play likely aren't even fully known to even the programmers, the metrics are probably always shifting and flopping, and I'd be surprised if the execs are programmed any clearer. or maybe its just easier to imagine and assume some doofy wannabe ai algorithm makes all of the constant bonehead decisions instead of a revolving cavalcade of human boneheads.
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Jan 3, 2023 21:42
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Do you guys remember before streaming when like half of new shows would get cancelled every season? Shows that do poorly get cancelled, shows that do poorly that have a small but very energetic fanbase get cancelled too. Do we think streaming platform execs don't have access to viewership numbers? Have more accurate data than the Nielsens could every hope to?
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Jan 3, 2023 21:50
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No but you see Failflix........
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Jan 3, 2023 21:57
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Ah but there's an article from 4 years ago I can vaguely recall that I'm misremembering that said that it is Netflix policy to cancel every show before the third season.
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Jan 3, 2023 21:59
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You're putting the cart before the horse. No one gives a poo poo about Netflix's stupid metrics, they're annoyed because shows they like are getting canned like two weeks after they air.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:02
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Goons are not a good metric for the general population of TV watchers, as I've noted before. Yellowstone is one of the most popular shows on American television today, enough for multiple spin-offs, and yet no one here talks about it except when news about it shows up in the general chat thread. The shows that get the most amount of discussion in the TV IV, I find, are the ones that people either love to death or hate to death. The show with a 5-star/1-star review counterbalance stands no chance to the show with a universal 4-star review.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:09
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No I know what's going on, and it's fine to be irritated that your show got cancelled, but what we're seeing is people putting that down to some sort of narrative about stupid execs who don't know that a show is popular or don't care because of capitalism. They are cancelling shows for which the budget does not meet the audience. This is always how it has been done. In the before times you could at least say that the ratings weren't measuring certain audiences but now every programming exec has exact to-the-second-they-stopped-watching viewership data on every single customer.Edward Mass posted:Goons are not a good metric for the general population of TV watchers, as I've noted before. Yellowstone is one of the most popular shows on American television today, enough for multiple spin-offs, and yet no one here talks about it except when news about it shows up in the general chat thread. Not to mentions all the Young Sheldons and NCISes and CSIses and so on.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:11
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There are also about twelve trillion ways an idiot pencil pusher could misinterpret any given piece of information provided by the algorithm. Also, even if you're right, why is that important? Why are you caping so hard for the poor hapless Netflix executives?
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Jan 3, 2023 22:17
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Because I'm in favor of "what really happened" vs "what I think happened that makes me the hero of the story and the evil corporation evil oh and also late stage capitalism strikes again" 1899 wasn't cancelled "two weeks after it came out" it was cancelled today, three months after the last episode aired. Probably because not enough people were watching it. The correct response is "ah well" and not "Graaaaaah nETFLIXXXX" zoux fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 22:20
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Enjoying anything on Netflix is turning into a similar experience as enjoying a sci-fi show on Fox
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Jan 3, 2023 22:21
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To be serious, I don't think the real problem with Netflix is how opaque its ratings information is (though that's not good), it's that its entire release model is structured to destroy word-of-mouth, which coupled with total lack of marketing means shows disappear instantly from the public consciousness.zoux posted:Because I'm in favor of "what really happened" vs "what I think happened that makes me the hero of the story and the evil corporation evil oh and also late stage capitalism strikes again" Your version of events is equally fabricated, though. It's in no way "more true," it's just a different assumption.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:21
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Arist posted:To be serious, I don't think the real problem with Netflix is how opaque its ratings information is (though that's not good), it's that its entire release model is structured to destroy word-of-mouth, which coupled with total lack of marketing means shows disappear instantly from the public consciousness. Oh so this is actually about the week-to-week vs all-at-once release sked. Well, I disagree with that killing word of mouth, as well as word-of-mouth promotion being a significant driver for all but a few shows. And my assumptions are based on "this is how a business trying to make a profit makes decisions" and others are based on "Netflix is either evil or incompetent"
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Jan 3, 2023 22:24
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zoux is right tbh everyone is so willing to demonise Netflix for every single cancellation regardless of how popular the snow actually was. 1899 is a very unsurprising cancellation and yet I’ve seen people on other sites acting like Netflix shot their dog.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:27
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what the...
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Jan 3, 2023 22:28
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Jan 3, 2023 22:32
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Sorry, I'm just not used to you agreeing with me.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:34
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zoux posted:Oh so this is actually about the week-to-week vs all-at-once release sked. Well, I disagree with that killing word of mouth, as well as word-of-mouth promotion being a significant driver for all but a few shows. And my assumptions are based on "this is how a business trying to make a profit makes decisions" and others are based on "Netflix is either evil or incompetent" I think it definitely kills word of mouth, at least long term, except for very small exceptions, like Stranger Things going viral with its Kate Bush and Metallica scenes. A Netflix show that dumps its episodes all at once can have some killer word of mouth buzz for a week, maybe two, while people catch up. But it's nothing like people talking every single week about your show for months on end. "Did you see what they did last night?" That kind of thing. I really believe that can make a show. Though, to be fair, I have zero sources for this. But I agree with your larger part, for sure. They cancelled a show because it wasn't doing well. I'm sorry for anyone who liked the show, but you can't be shocked. Like, I was upset when Fox killed Drive with Nathan Fillion years ago. But I knew exactly why they did it. I was the only person watching that show.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:35
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