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Looking for suggestions or ideas to find this leak. I have this stupid flat roof/fake balcony over the front 6 feet of my garage. I installed an EPDM rubber roof 5 years ago and it's been waterproof since. In September, we had rotten wood panel siding removed and replaced with Hardie board. Then we had painters come through and paint it all. Despite the vetting process, in the end I didn't care terribly for either contractor. Both were sloppy and I had to be on their asses to have their guys do poo poo right. That said, when we pointed things out, they sent their people back out immediately to correct things. So here I am 3 months later and a big storm comes through. I've got water leaking into the garage in two places through this roof. I know they had put stuff down over the roofing material when they were working up there. But when I was hanging Christmas lights last month, I found a small nail stuck in the roof. I pulled it and patched it and that was that, or so I thought. So today, I went through and swept the whole thing clean. I got down on my hands and knees and crawled back and forth covering every inch of the roof at least five times. I found one dent which didn't seem to go all the way through, and one fairly big gouge. I also found, at one of my original seams, a big crack in the caulking. All of these are near the right side leak. I haven't found anything close to the left side leak. I cleaned these areas with mineral spirits and placed a self adhering EPDM patch, and then caulked over the edges with heavy duty polyurethane roofing caulk. I also re-caulked my original seams - though these were from overlapping EPDM flashing up the walls. But I didn't want to take any chances. My big huge major concern is that this one little hole wasn't the source of the water, but that the contractors who did the siding hosed everything up. When I had expressed concerns in other areas, their attitude seemed to be that the house paper under the siding would handle everything and not the siding itself. I'm worried that the area around the window is an ingress point. I did find cracks and small holes in the caulk around the window, which I patched today. There is flashing over the window, which seems right. There is no flashing under the window, but there is an open gap about 1/16". I assume this is to let water out if it gets behind/around the window, but I'm wondering if it could let water in? I know water can run all over the place before it makes its way out. There are layers to this roof that could make it all crazy. There's a huge beam in the garage below the front wall of the upper floor, and there's no water on this beam. I'm wondering though if I'm going to have to remove this insulation to find the leak? Or if it's going to be able to dry out? I'm going to flood the roof with the hose tomorrow to see if it's getting in somewhere outside of my patches. Then I'll work my way up to the window. Redoing the roof 5 years ago:  Plywood over the boards shown previously while I'm gluing the roof down:  Water rear left:  Water front right:  Roof left:  Roof right:  Window:  Window upper:  Window lower: 
FogHelmut fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 07:47
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| # ? May 4, 2024 18:44 |
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drat, you’ve got a lot of potential points of entry there, probably going to take some more work to figure exactly where it’s coming from. But, I think your suspicion about the window is correct. From your photos, it looks like the underside trim is standing proud of the window sill, which indeed would direct water in. I would absolutely pull the insulation. It’s already wet and not going to dry before turning to mold otherwise and the only way you’re really going to confirm where the water is coming from. And I see palm trees. May I assume you’re having fairly mild weather rn? If it’s from the window, then I think you’re done. It’s on the siding guys. Photograph the hell out of everything along the way. Consider making an insurance claim. The low-hanging fruit here is to check your downspout and make sure that’s clear. If you’ve had heavy enough rain the allow water to pool high enough to overtop your roof flashing, then water could get in anywhere along the roof perimeter Mister Dog fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 17:29
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Mister Dog posted:drat, you’ve got a lot of potential points of entry there, probably going to take some more work to figure exactly where it’s coming from. But, I think your suspicion about the window is correct. From your photos, it looks like the underside trim is standing proud of the window sill, which indeed would direct water in. I checked again and it is a bit proud. Should this be caulked? I thought it should be open to let water out but it seems to be letting water in. These were retrofit windows installed over the old siding. They removed that to install the new stuff. My expectation would be that the bottom trim board should sit up inside the window frame since these are retrofit. But looking up close, there is leftover cough residue on the window itself along the bottom from the original window installers. quote:I would absolutely pull the insulation. It’s already wet and not going to dry before turning to mold otherwise and the only way you’re really going to confirm where the water is coming from. And I see palm trees. May I assume you’re having fairly mild weather rn? If it’s from the window, then I think you’re done. It’s on the siding guys. Photograph the hell out of everything along the way. Consider making an insurance claim. I'm not going to file an insurance claim. There's nothing in the garage to be damaged, I've only got 100 ft² of insulation there if I replaced all of it. I am in a warm climate, Southern California. We only get a couple big rainstorms a year if that. If I can fix it with some caulk in the gap or by shimmying a piece of flashing in there, I'll be happy with that. quote:The low-hanging fruit here is to check your downspout and make sure that’s clear. If you’ve had heavy enough rain the allow water to pool high enough to overtop your roof flashing, then water could get in anywhere along the roof perimeter This is unlikely. The roofing material is fully adhered 4.5" up the sides under the flashing against the house. The edge is caulked over and sealed. The roof is pitched 0.25" per foot away from the house. I've got four drains at the low side of the roof - two x 1.5" and two x 2". The smaller drains lead to 2" ABS pipe, which connect to a 3" vertical pipe leading out side that the larger drains go directly into. Failing that, the lower lip of the roof is only going 3" high, and being 6' away, it is ultimately 3" lower than the top of the roofing under the flashing on the house side.
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Jan 8, 2023 22:08
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Sounds like all still pointing to the window then. You’re right that windows typically have weep holes to allow an exit for any water that gets into the frame. You’ll see those at the bottom of the window, but within the frame and exiting from the front face. Unless there’s something fucky going on with how the window was installed, I don’t think that gap you pictured is functioning as a weep hole. I’m thinking water is getting in that gap you pictured and then, even if the window is flashed properly, is going to run down the weather barrier (behind the siding) as far as it can, probably right around to where your roof flashing meets the wall. If that is flashed properly, but there is no way for the water to escape at that point, it’ll eventually find a way into your wall. Of course, if the flashing is the problem, water is just going to head right in as soon as it gets past the siding. Caulking the gap is probably the right solution, but I’d be worried about the moisture that’s already inside wall not drying, turning to mold, rot, and eventually destroying your house and killing us all. Were the windows replaced first with the old siding in place, then the new siding subsequently replaced later? Mister Dog fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 22:45
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Mister Dog posted:Sounds like all still pointing to the window then. You’re right that windows typically have weep holes to allow an exit for any water that gets into the frame. You’ll see those at the bottom of the window, but within the frame and exiting from the front face. Unless there’s something fucky going on with how the window was installed, I don’t think that gap you pictured is functioning as a weep hole. I’m thinking water is getting in that gap you pictured and then, even if the window is flashed properly, is going to run down the weather barrier (behind the siding) as far as it can, probably right around to where your roof flashing meets the wall. If [i]that[i/] is flashed properly, but there is no way for the water to escape at that point, it’ll eventually find a way into your wall. Of course, if the flashing is the problem, water is just going to head right in as soon as it gets past the siding. Caulking the gap is probably the right solution, but I’d be worried about the moisture that’s already inside wall not drying, turning to mold, rot, and eventually destroying your house and killing us all. There are real weep holes, yes. Also, yes they were sized for and replaced with the old siding.
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Jan 9, 2023 04:28
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| # ? May 4, 2024 18:44 |
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I caulked everything and we didn't get any water inside the garage yesterday. Looks like everything is holding up. There is another storm this weekend but I think it will be fine.
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Jan 11, 2023 16:42
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