Misc. Racing Thread 2023: Home of True Passione

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harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

Miscellaneous Racing Series 2023: Shifted Into H

This is the Misc. Racing Thread, home for discussion of all kinds of racing that aren't Formula 1, IndyCar, or NASCAR. Feel free to post about sports car racing, touring cars, rallying, off-road racing, motocross, and anything else you can think of. So much good racing is available to watch (especially online officially) that we can share and discuss while enjoying speedy race cars.

So what kind of racing are you talking about here, then?

We talk a lot about sports-car racing. It�s the racing, primarily on road and street courses, of cars which come closest in design and spirit to street cars. And at the top of sports cars are what�s called prototypes -- single-seat racers with closed tops and fenders. The Grand Prix cars of long-distance racing.

But this is a place for all sorts of series: Australian Supercars, Japanese Super GT and Super Formula, the World Rally Championship, Supercross (I will get murdered if I don't mention or watch Supercross), and more.

Why should I care about sports car racing?

There�s a wide variety -- of cars, drivers, locations, and of race distances. It�s where your favorite drivers from Formula 1, IndyCar and NASCAR past will wind up. Races are often long (6-, 12- and 24-hour races are not uncommon), and feature multiple types (classes) of car racing on the same track but in individual class battles alongside the overall ranking. The world of sports car racing tends to be friendlier and more approachable than other parts, while still attracting many colorful characters.

Okay. So what's new for 2023?
Oh, we thought we were shifting into H last year in the world of sportscar racing, but that was a false dawn and finale - Toyota won the World Endurance Championship and 24 Hours of Le Mans once more, chased by a grandfathered LMP1 car and the plucky Glickenhaus. Peugeot eventually showed up, but this year should be the first proper challenge - in the form of the last factory to win before the current reign began...

Last year was the finale for IMSA's prototype rules, the Daytona Prototype International, which gives way this year to the GTP class and LMDh rules. We already have nine cars for the Daytona 24, from four factories, with more due as the season goes on. The racing was drat good, the last two brands raced hard (sometimes too hard - hi Petit Le Mans Cadillac duel) and there's a lot of excitement for this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ize1rE7T8fE

Toyota will continue with updates to the GR010 Hypercar in the WEC and at Le Mans.
Glickenhaus have committed to one car for the WEC and a second for Le Mans. It was fast at Monza...
Peugeot made it! I saw that in person! I hope they've worked out some of the kinks, because it was quick when running.
Cadillac are joining the World Championship with a car for the first time, and at least it should sound amazing.
Porsche will have four cars (eventually) in the WEC, as the factory Penske cars are joined by JOTA and Proton.
Ferrari are here, holy loving poo poo they might actually win something!
ByKolles, as Vanwall are on the entry list?! What black magic is this.

And aside from the factories in the WEC, we have for 2023:

BMW are in for IMSA in 2023 and the WRT team is going to run their factory WEC efforts next year. Could this include a Doctor?
Acura/Honda confirmed they're carrying on in IMSA with Wayne Taylor and Meyer Shank Racing in 2023, and now Wayne Taylor is having Andretti Autosport buy in, so that means growth and possible expansion in 2024.
Lamborghini is going to join in 2024 with a WEC/IMSA endurance calendar, Iron Lynx/Prema as their team, and Romain "The Phoenix" Grosjean as a driver.
Alpine will join in from 2024 with their own LMDh as well, but are just running LMP2s again this year.

So, what are the series I should know?

The FIA World Endurance Championship is the highest level of sports-car racing. It�s an FIA World Championship, same as Formula 1 and the World Rally Championship, which means a lot. The WEC schedule includes the 24 Hours of Le Mans, which means almost as much, if not more, as Le Mans remains a hugely popular event and a major marketing point for all these big manufacturers. The WEC features LM Hypercar cars, LMP2 cars, and a GT class, and is pretty fun to watch. Its season is back to running during the calendar year, and though the first race is moved from Sebring to Portugal, it will continue on as a global championship this year.

Alongside the WEC is IMSA, which is based mainly in the United States but almost equal to the WEC in terms of longevity and prestige. Its a US and Canadian-based series, but many teams and drivers will also compete at Le Mans on an annual basis. IMSA also has a number of high-profile races: endurance epics include the 24 Hours of Daytona in January, the Sebring 12 Hours in March, and Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta in October, plus marquee shorter races at Long Beach, Road America, and more.

Other regional series which are directly under the WEC and ACO (who co-organize the WEC along with the FIA) include the European Le Mans Series and Asian Le Mans Series, which both act as feeders of a sort to the World Endurance Championship and 24 Hours of Le Mans. There's no direct relegation/promotion, but teams gain experience in the regional series and sometimes step up to the WEC; also, all of IMSA, Asian Le Mans and European Le Mans all receive invites to the 24 Hours of Le Mans annually.

But there are other series in this sports car world! Many of them fall under a sports car rulebook called GT3. These are cars made by big companies (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Audi) which are sold to customers. GT3 cars are expected to be balanced to achieve a similar level of performance -- in theory, a driver could take each of those cars around a track and get roughly the same lap time.

This has led to a boom in series aimed to customers, as the cars are relatively affordable, well-built, fairly easy to drive (especially compared to customer cars from the 1970s and �80s) and eligible to race in a lot of exciting events. The 24 Hours races at Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium and the Nurburgring in Germany, and also the 12 Hours of Bathurst in Australia are highlights for GT3-type racing worldwide.

Great! So how/when do I watch?

First, you need to know when a race is! Custard Undies recommended this link to Motorsport.com's schedule for racing series. Use it, learn it, love it.

Because the sports-car world is so diverse, there�s a lot to watch. Happily, much of it is readily available online or even via YouTube.

WEC: It has a streaming app/website for live events, and a YouTube channel for replays which are arriving pretty quickly these days. Note: Included as part of MotorTrend's streaming app in the U.S., so the WEC streaming app is blacked out. Boo!
24 Hours of Le Mans: Part of the above WEC package, but also has plenty of coverage for free via YouTube and other partner streams.
IMSA: For live coverage, from 2019 IMSA is partnering with NBC in the U.S., will have live coverage on various NBC channels, and IMSA Radio is always free and excellent. They've now added an IMSA-specific NBC Gold package for US coverage which will be rolled into Peacock, while coverage outside the U.S. will depend on the market. Also check out the YouTube channel afterwards. Outside of the U.S.? IMSA TV provides free coverage using the IMSA Radio audio. Should also be visible via http://imsaradio.com. This also includes the lower-level series that IMSA also has, including the Michelin Pilot Challenge, Lamborghini Supertrofeo, Prototype Challenge, etc.
European and Asian Le Mans Series: These both stream free, AsLMS via YouTube.
Formerly known as Blancpain GT Series: Online via YouTube
Super GT: It's not the heyday of Radio Le Mans covering the series, but their YouTube does have free streams and race replays up if you're patient.
Other events: Most all of these have some free streaming component, which we put in the thread as they come up.

Recommended Links/Follows

Racer -- racer.com -- Good coverage of American racing
Daily Sports Car -- dailysportscar.com -- Great coverage of all sports car series

Other questions? Reach out and ask! Recommendations? Please suggest and we'll try to add them in.

Come join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/kg3d2Uu

Misc Threads of the Past
Misc. Racing Thread 2022: H-Sample Test Phase
Misc. Racing Thread 2021: Shifting to H Intensifies
Misc Racing Thread 2020: Put it in H!
Misc Racing Thread 2019: I woke up to a smoking hulk
Misc Auto Racing 2018: Mazda gonna Mazda
Misc Auto Racing 2017: gently caress off Whincup
Misc Auto Racing 2016 : Downgraded From Silver Posters to Bronze
Misc Auto Racing 2015: At least our criminals are non-violent
Misc Auto Racing 2014: So long and thanks for all the McNish
Misc Auto Racing 2013: Beware: Ferrari Ahead
Misc. Auto Racing 2012: No War But Class War
Sportscars 2011: Racing with Class (ILMC/ALMS/GrandAm)
2011 Daytona 24 Hours
2010 Daytona 24 Hours

# ? Jan 27, 2023 14:14

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:36

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

[Reserved for LMP2]

# ? Jan 27, 2023 14:14

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

[Reserved for GTD and GTD Pro]

# ? Jan 27, 2023 14:14

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

SPACE HOMOS posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XySlnWVj7I

Mx-5 Cup at Daytona Race 1

It sounds like this was an absolute banger, Miatas on the huge super-speedway is always a good combo

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

LMDh BoP is pretty straightforward right now, especially since they are only running against themselves. Power is limited (and measured) at the axles to 500kW peak. IMSA defines a power curve in the BOP documents that all cars must adhere to over their rev range, by percentage, so at X percent of your rev limit you're allowed to make Y power.

Minimum weights are all identical, the aero box is entirely limited by a maximum lift:drag ratio, and the cars only have one adjustable aero device, the rear wing. Front aero is fixed, so balancing is done with ride heights while overall level is set with the rear wing.

It's a pretty boxed in formula so they're naturally gonna be very close.

The one thing that has intrigued me is how they control that power curve. The MGU actually is a major part of it, if the ICE is exceeding the power limit, the MGU will kick in and generate energy to soak up that overpower. This is of course pretty inefficient fuel-wise since you're adding conversion losses to the gear train losses on any overpower event, so I imagine, much like wastegates in current F1 cars, you'll see that used less and less as the engine control software improves. I suspect the turbo cars will have their boost control on point pretty fast. The Caddy I'm not so sure how they'll efficiently manage engine output to adhere to that curve. Presumably the curve is modeled off a NA engine like DPi BoP is so they won't have too much of a time doing that but while the MGU is deploying they'll still have to cut power. Wonder if they'll pull timing or use a fly-by-wire throttle or change engine maps on the fly.

Tons of really cool software implications behind the scenes that we won't really see too much of since it's designed to be a fairly opaque setup.

The trick is how it balances against the LMH cars, but yeah, the idea that the software and integration is what matters keeps it road relevant. Definitely will be interesting to see how it works going forward.

# ? Jan 27, 2023 14:18

Custard Undies: Jan 7, 2006; #essereFerrari

Great job again HarperDC on the thread

# ? Jan 27, 2023 14:33

Space Camp fuckup: Aug 2, 2003

https://i.imgur.com/Ftncixz.mp4

Space Camp fuckup fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jan 27, 2023

# ? Jan 27, 2023 16:44

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Space Camp fuckup posted:

https://i.imgur.com/Ftncixz.mp4

mp4 = URL tags

# ? Jan 27, 2023 17:13

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Don't forget Radio Le Mans for sickos who want maximum Train Simulator Talk during their 24 hour races.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 04:45

net work error: Feb 26, 2011

I will never call it GTP! It's time for H babyyyyy

# ? Jan 28, 2023 15:46

Space Camp fuckup: Aug 2, 2003

The GTP Cadillacs sound incredible

# ? Jan 28, 2023 20:06

WindyMan: Mar 21, 2002; Respect the power of the wind

[Reserved for SuperMotocross]

Yes it's cool especially this year so please wait until I post about it

# ? Jan 28, 2023 20:16

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

Space Camp fuckup posted:

The GTP Cadillacs sound incredible

The Acuras sound good too, but man, that Caddy is insane

First-time viewer here, Gran Turismo got me interested in sportscar racing. Where's the 787B

# ? Jan 28, 2023 21:22

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

curried lamb of God posted:

The Acuras sound good too, but man, that Caddy is insane

First-time viewer here, Gran Turismo got me interested in sportscar racing. Where's the 787B

In a museum in Japan

# ? Jan 28, 2023 21:23

Bloopsy: Jun 1, 2006; you have been visited by the Tasty Garlic Bread. you will be blessed by having good Garlic Bread in your life time, but only if you comment "ty garlic bread" in the thread below

Thank god for IMSA Radio since Peacock loves cutting to long commercial blocks.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 21:51

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

curried lamb of God posted:

The Acuras sound good too, but man, that Caddy is insane

First-time viewer here, Gran Turismo got me interested in sportscar racing. Where's the 787B

One thing I'll always say for simracing this.

Want to put a 787B on the same track as a GTP, 4 touring cars, a 1973 F1 car and a Geo Metro? Go hog wild.

I'm sure it'll end well.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 22:33

Custard Undies: Jan 7, 2006; #essereFerrari

Is this only streaming on Peacock? Trying to watch in Australia but not finding any options compared to last few years

Edit: I'm an idiot, never mind. Works off their website

# ? Jan 28, 2023 22:40

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Custard Undies posted:

Is this only streaming on Peacock? Trying to watch in Australia but not finding any options compared to last few years

Edit: I'm an idiot, never mind. Works off their website

I do this every year, forgetting that you can just watch it free lol.

WindyMan posted:

[Reserved for SuperMotocross]

Yes it's cool especially this year so please wait until I post about it

Hell yeah brother. Thank you for reminding me.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 23:04

Bloopsy: Jun 1, 2006; you have been visited by the Tasty Garlic Bread. you will be blessed by having good Garlic Bread in your life time, but only if you comment "ty garlic bread" in the thread below

Custard Undies posted:

Is this only streaming on Peacock? Trying to watch in Australia but not finding any options compared to last few years

Edit: I'm an idiot, never mind. Works off their website

Ha yeah I went on the site earlier and it said to watch it on Peacock (which I already had) so I assumed it was just the same feed.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 23:12

Anime Store Adventure: May 6, 2009

I went to the start of the race and it kicks rear end. If you ever get a chance and haven�t definitely try to get to a track. It�s loud as hell and smells like poo poo and is exciting the whole time.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 23:19

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

Custard Undies posted:

Is this only streaming on Peacock? Trying to watch in Australia but not finding any options compared to last few years

Edit: I'm an idiot, never mind. Works off their website

If your country doesn�t have a Proper TV deal, then you can watch the IMSA TV feed, which combines the videos with the IMSA Radio feed (powered by Radio Le Mans). Even if you get Peacock in the US, it might be worth putting the IMSA Radio feed on just for the dulcet Mackem tones of John Hindaugh.

And yeah, the 787B was last active 30+ years ago, but still gets wheeled out occasionally�

https://youtu.be/neHfmMeRr9Q

# ? Jan 28, 2023 23:28

biglads: Feb 21, 2007; I could've gone to Blatherwycke

Scott Dixon with half his undertray flapping about.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 00:14

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016

Anime Store Adventure posted:

I went to the start of the race and it kicks rear end. If you ever get a chance and haven�t definitely try to get to a track. It�s loud as hell and smells like poo poo and is exciting the whole time.

the start of le mans when I went was a banger. They timed also sprach zarathustra so the climax hit and was then overtaken by the sound of engines as the cars took the green flag

# ? Jan 29, 2023 00:21

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

The leading P2 appears to have broke.

And one of the Porsches has lost 20 laps with a battery problem?

# ? Jan 29, 2023 01:58

spaceblancmange: Apr 19, 2018; #essereFerrari

They are so slow on cold tyres it is bordering on dangerous. They are brake checking GT cars after passing on the straight

# ? Jan 29, 2023 02:08

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

We have GrosjeanCam :toot:

The coldness is something I hadn't considered - not only are drivers on cold tires when they leave the pits, but the ambient temperature is near freezing and the track is cold. Definitely different from what I see in F1

# ? Jan 29, 2023 07:11

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

Oh did it drop more than they thought overnight then, about when I was watching yesterday evening UK they didn't expect it to go below 60F track temp.

EDIT : Yeah it's 67F out there right now at 5:30am, not exactly near freezing.

Dudley fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jan 29, 2023

# ? Jan 29, 2023 11:15

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

God I love Sleepy Mechanic Hours.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 12:28

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Fascinating, that Acuras were quicker in the day, the Cadis better at night, the BMW just slow and both Porsches have had dramas.

In short: Endurance Racing Rules.

GT classes seem stupidly close as well.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 12:40

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

algebra testes posted:

God I love Sleepy Mechanic Hours.

Yeah the Cadillac and the Acura seem tops right now, I think it may even come down to the proverbial three bites at it instead of two for everyone else.

Dawn at Daytona.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 13:12

Grimson: Dec 16, 2004

https://twitter.com/IronLynx_/status/1619656750826921984?s=20

# ? Jan 29, 2023 13:16

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

Dudley posted:

Oh did it drop more than they thought overnight then, about when I was watching yesterday evening UK they didn't expect it to go below 60F track temp.

EDIT : Yeah it's 67F out there right now at 5:30am, not exactly near freezing.

Oh man, I must've misunderstood the broadcast team

Grosjean back out there

# ? Jan 29, 2023 16:13

biglads: Feb 21, 2007; I could've gone to Blatherwycke

Porsche #6 just spewed a load of smoke. Race looks over for them.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 16:55

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

biglads posted:

Porsche #6 just spewed a load of smoke. Race looks over for them.

Oof, they just showed the replay of the #6 on the super speedway and it looks bad

Just looked at the timing, the #7 BMW made up a ton of laps overnight :stare:

They were down like 133 laps and now only 16

# ? Jan 29, 2023 17:00

Sexual Lorax: Mar 17, 2004; HERE'S TO FUCKING; Fun Shoe

curried lamb of God posted:

Oof, they just showed the replay of the #6 on the super speedway and it looks bad

Just looked at the timing, the #7 BMW made up a ton of laps overnight They were down like 133 laps and now only 16

sure youre not thinking of the number 25 bmw theyre still down 133 laps

edit

imsa radio just mentioned https://livetiming.alkamelsystems.com/imsa/ which i wish i knew about at the start of the race

the live position map is a treat

Sexual Lorax fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 29, 2023

# ? Jan 29, 2023 17:09

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Sure why not.

Lmao what a finish.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:44

curried lamb of God: Aug 31, 2001; we are all Marwinners

Sexual Lorax posted:

sure youre not thinking of the number 25 bmw theyre still down 133 laps

edit

imsa radio just mentioned https://livetiming.alkamelsystems.com/imsa/ which i wish i knew about at the start of the race

the live position map is a treat

Ah gently caress you're right

Holy poo poo that LMP2 ending

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:46