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(Thread IKs: skooma512)
 
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Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Taco Defender

Willa Rogers posted:

A few years ago I temped at a job with an open-office plan & if the assignment hadn't ended in a month my sanity certainly would have.

I don't understand how employers can think that it's productive to listen to officemates nattering on all day.

It's a more efficient layout for managers who like to wander over to interrupt groups of people doing actual work and blather on about irrelevant poo poo in order to feel important.

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Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Hmmm. "Strong and stable". Where have I heard those words before? Oh, right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRKuxNo6xY

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Bar Ran Dun posted:

This is omnipresent. if there are known metric somebody (or everybody!) is going to optimize for the metrics to get an advantage / promotion, thereby distorting what the metrics were trying to on measure.

so I dunno I just go look. I also do this professionally a lot, watch, photograph, and extensively note. serious old school business does this a lot, new “disruptors” not so much.

it’s almost like no one wants to acknowledge that observation both qualitative and quantitative is the first thing to do. instead everybody wants data first and then to back fit a hypothesis to data.

there is also generally a focus educationally on form over substance. it doesn’t matter what the thesis is, grading is determined by its support structurally.

and there is economics it’s all wonderfully structured. built on its clear assumptions with its straight forward correlative relationships expressed in simple lines intersecting. no causative or complex systems thinking. just two lines intersecting.

I mean that’s not useless. but it’s certainly not everything. The complexity and sophistication of a model increases our tendency to accept the model’s conclusions as truth.

I think particularly with Krugman that’s what’s going on. a lot of folks are quick to go to “massaging numbers” as an accusation. that’s unnecessary. somebody like Krugman is doing what they were trained to do and honestly.

This is something that pisses me off when dealing with some people, and orthodox economists definitely fall into this group. The thing I specialize in professionally is largely figuring out how to make poo poo work better, and I do the bulk of that by looking at what currently exists, and figuring out why it's the way it is. What are the problems being solved? What are the problems that haven't yet been solved? What are the lessons that were learned along the way that led to how things are? Metrics aren't gonna tell you this poo poo (and if you say you want metrics in order to "tell a story", you're probably asking for a convenient lie). You need to go talk to people and get their perspectives if you want the actual information. Odds are, that's going to be qualitative much more often than it is quantitative.

Yeah, there are often numerous ways to do specific subsets of things better, but if you ignore the what and the how and the why of things, really the nuance of the system you're dealing with in general, you're just creating exciting new problems for somebody to solve later.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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dk2m posted:

the way to understand what’s happening right now is not at all what orthodox economics wants to tell you. this is sort of an effort post.

I’m completely simple terms - this is the consequence of Obama and Geithners policy in 2008. when the banks blew up back then, we had a choice - do we as a society protect the creditor or protect the debtor? the answer came clearly down to protecting the creditor - the banks.

the main reason for that is that is because we were in the midst of a revolution - the free trade agreements and de-industrialization policies of Clinton staring with NAFTA and the admittance of China to the WTO in 2001 were turbocharging the equity and bond market.

with labor being squeezed and eventually collapsing by moving overseas, the main enemy of neoliberalism was conquered. unions fell apart and factories shut down, but because of the rise in technology coinciding with dirt cheap foreign labor costs, productivity went through the roof. around the same time, business schools were churning out MBAs that based their framework around finance instead of industrial engineering - older schools like GMI in Flint (now Kettering University) which trained executives to think in terms of industry were giving way to Stanford and Harvard MBAs who prioritized the CFO led model of prioritizing the stockholder.

these coinciding factors led to executives gutting their companies to shutter factories, move them overseas, and largely focus on financial engineering to boost their share price. a characteristic of finance that separates it from a real economy is that financial returns compound while a real economy looks like an S curve - a financial economy simply grows unbounded.

that’s because finance is debt based. banks create debt and make claims on assets. their source comes from thin air - when you apply for a mortgage, they simply push a button and come up with a the money. in theory, they are required to keep a reserve to cover deposits - with deregulation, it has given them less and less to cover on hand, to now virtually guaranteed risk-free government backed bailouts.

i also think it’s important to understand what exactly a bank does. let’s say you deposit some money into one. from a banks balance sheet perspective, your deposit is a liability in an accounting sense. this means that they package the liability, your deposit, into an asset via an exchange on the market.

because a banks primary product is making claims on real assets, they naturally are rent seeking institutions. in order for them to grow and make money, they need 2 things - an ever larger pool of assets to lay claims on and a source of easy credit to lever their claims on to increase their rate of return. the first part is done via privatization - by moving assets from the public domain, such as land or healthcare or education, to the private one, they force the entire population to take on loans, which gives the banks their pool of assets to lay claims on.

the second piece comes from the availability of a Bank themselves to get short term loans. a bank is a special institution under financial capitalism that can enter a repo market with its central bank, the fed. they can collateralize and obtain credit from the central bank and can use that same credit to cover their liabilities (aka deposits) or go into the financial markets and buy stocks, bonds and products.

banks pre 2008 were making extremely risky bets by tapping into the largest debt pool of all - mortgages. because everyone has a mortgage, which pays interest, investment banks began committing outright fraud by packaging garbage loans and making it appear golden and the commercial banks lended loans to anyone with a pulse. this skyrocketed returns across the board as the combination of derivatives and interest bearing loans compounded and grew far beyond the growth of the real economy. in 2008 when it finally collapsed, Obama decided that he would protect the creditors and the only way to do this was to re-inflate the prices of both real estate and the stock market.

this is where the regime of 0 interest rate credit came into play. as money became basically free, banks gave the government all of their toxic bonds and derivatives and in return got free money from the federal reserve to chase returns again. stock buybacks, VC money, institutional housing buybacks, healthcare, insurance, and arbitraging were all turbocharged with QE. this led to an equity and bond market boom as the federal reserve gave the banks enough loans to spread throughout the system to make sure all the distressed houses they had on the balance sheet were not only propped up again, but would eventually far outpace the book value of the homes itself.

as the rally grew, and the economy became more polarized, the creditors and financial class inflated the stock market to obscene levels, but needed more and more assets to lay their credit claims on. this only further impoverished the rest of us, as housing, education and healthcare costs spiraled out of control. rather than see these as the driving costs for what we now call “inflation”, the fed simply doubled down on this regime and left it at near 0 well after the initial recession ended. the small financial class enjoyed unparalleled wealth that had never really been seen before in american history.

what eventually burst this bubble was covid. since we deinsturalized, we faced sudden shortages that caused massive supply/demand imbalances. these causes prices for some goods to spiral, cars for example. in response, the fed dropped another 9 trillion QE regime in which the main intent was to inflate the stock and bond market. this led to the absolutely asinine situation of a soaring stock market amidst collapsing employment.

as covid ended and labor had new gained power to negotiate wages in 2022, the idea of inflation started to really become a mainstream topic in financial news. inflation is really a euphemism for rising wages and employment, but an overall increase of wages would sharply threaten financial returns for all the now CFO led companies and startups. to curb this, the fed decided to raise interest rates.

the problem is that they have flooded the market, since 2008, with low interest rate credit. as companies became flush with cash, especially the tech sector, they parked their money into treasury bonds. most banks barely pay any interest on savings or CDs, something like less than .05%, so wealth individuals and cash plush companies would rather invest in long term t-bonds which were only interrupted after labor suddenly had some negotiation power due to covid.

this whole situation is a consequence of gutting the country of industry and focusing on finance as the primary growth driver. the problem is that now, we have so much credit that has been used to indebt the rest of us, and nearly every bank has underwater bonds as they invested in “safe” treasury bonds, that the system has nowhere to go. the individual actions of banks, such as bailouts, are less of a moral hazard than the overall structure of the economy basically resembling the Soviet Union, but financially rather than via fake production quotas. as the Soviet Union was obsessed with production to to point of it becoming farcical, so we are with finance to the point of it now it being largely fiction as we cannot QE as that would counter act the rate hikes, and we cannot continue the rate hikes as that would collapse more banks. we have to come to the conclusion that banks and creditors ARE the problem, and let them collapse and bring back a goods and consumer spending based economy rather than a fictitious debt based one.

This is a good post.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Don't think I saw this posted here yet. The FHA's now saying that 40-year mortgages are cool and good. Gotta keep that bubble inflating!

https://www.wptv.com/money/real-estate-news/federal-housing-administration-greenlights-40-year-mortgages

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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coelomate posted:

Yeha it’s very bad. This is the biggest financial institution to fail since 2008 and is… wait, is it bigger than Bear Sterns or Lehman Brothers were?

It’s really really really bad and it’s extremely not over.

I just wanna see UBS explode now and see how the Swiss government handles it.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Shageletic posted:

lol i'm seeing this after getting my new CIPP accreditation. Seems like a growing sector of the economy but doesn't seem like there's a lot of people hiring.

I think you're the first person I've ever seen who has an IAPP cert. I've thought about doing a couple of them (CIPP and CIPM), but I've never, ever seen anybody acknowledge that they exist. Granted, my background's in infosec rather than legal (albeit one where I've worked closely with our attorneys on poo poo), but I'd still think that somebody out there would care about them somehow.

Have you seen anybody hiring who knows enough about the CIPP to ask for it?

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:

Citi?! Is my Costco credit card safe???

:lol: Citi's been loving poo poo up for years. Back when they got the Costco credit card contract, there were a ton of rumors going around that one of the terms was that they process transactions from Costco Visa cards for free, and other Visa cards at a very, very low rate.

https://viewfromthewing.com/how-much-citibank-and-visa-actually-overpaid-to-win-the-costco-business-away-from-amex/

Nobody else was desperate enough to offer that, and AmEx didn't want to do it.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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She's talking to the 90+ year old liches in government. Of course they're not gonna be around for the next one. If this one ever resolves, they'll be long dead before the next one hits in a few years.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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webcams for christ posted:

I went to bed shortly after posting a couple haymakers that were light on actual content because, as Hoot suggested a couple pages ago- the thread is often drifting off-topic. but this subject is honestly a great personal interest of mine, and I think I'd benefit a lot from discussing it more often in CSPAM, and there's plenty of lively discussion every time it comes up

I'm going to start working on an Effortpost OP for a new thread, and I'd like to know what would be a good balance between broad enough range to encourage discussion, but unique enough to merit its own thread. off the top of my head I'm thinking about a constellation of these topics:
  • the prevalence of obesity across the globe
  • definitions of obesity
  • social and economic determinants of health
  • built environment
  • physical activity patterns/habits
  • food quality and availability
  • agricultural policy
  • behavior, health beliefs, and eating disorders
  • anthropology of food
  • environmental toxicology
  • genetic risk factors
  • for-profit weight loss industry
  • actors who benefit from obesity prevalence
  • efficacy of weight loss interventions
  • individual vs collective interventions
  • tension between body-discrimination/shaming, fat acceptance, and health outcomes
  • sociology of medicine: public health & social control
too broad? too narrow? catchy title? my first stab would be something like:

C-SPAM > Political Economy of Food, Behavioral Health, and the Obesity Industrial Complex

I'd be interested in reading a thread like that, especially if it has anything to say about why Americans are so uniquely bad when it comes to obesity (I assume it has something to do with how much less food-like the "food" we eat here is vs. other countries as well as our gigantic portion sizes, but I'd be curious what actual data has to say about it).

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Rectal Death Adept posted:

Their grocery delivery service has been changing along these lines for years.

When it debuted you could get free 2 hour delivery on orders over $35. It was called "Prime Now" and you could get almost anything from monitors to paper towels to clothes or cleaning supplies. I managed to break a monitor and replace it with a weekly grocery order in less than 90 minutes. Extremely convenient.

Last year they eliminated Prime Now and went to Amazon Fresh which is a more expensive limited selection and mostly grocery based 2 hour delivery that had $5 delivery costs and longer waits.

I just checked and fresh delivery is $10. If you spend $50 it becomes $7. At $100 it becomes $4. Only at $150 does it qualify for free delivery. Also the prices are now worse than grocery stores with zero deals so there is no reason to pay $9.50 for a 12 pack of soda when most stores have them buy 1 get 1 free at that price.

Getting even worse than that is probably a sign of significant issues on Amazon's part after they've already made the service so lovely there isn't incentive to even use it.

Amazon Fresh is not new. I was using it back when it first started in 2007 when there was no order minimum, they were competitive with grocery stores, they covered any sales tax for taxable poo poo, they carried a bunch of stuff you couldn't get elsewhere, and delivery (in a big, reusable plastic tub that they picked back up later) was free with scheduled one-hour windows. 2007 Amazon Fresh was great, but it was obvious it wasn't going to last because it was so much better than grocery stores.

And, well, it didn't last. It's basically gotten steadily shittier for the last 16 years (like pretty much everything Amazon-related) as they've increased prices and decreased utility.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Floor is lava posted:

https://openai.com/careers/discord-manager

anyone want to mod a discord for $180,000/y for openai?

Sounds like a decent gig. Just hook it up to ChatGPT to do all the work, and if anybody complains, blame the product team.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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:laffo: I can't wait to see how this interacts with corporate policies that are (rightly) afraid of employees just giving up all their data to unknown third parties by sending it to AI poo poo.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Pf. Hikikomoriarty posted:

no one can afford a mortgage now anyway

It's a good thing credit scores aren't used to screen people for jobs or renting, whether you can get a phone or an Internet connection (or how much of a "credit risk" penalty you'll pay otherwise), or to determine insurance rates.

Hold on. I'm getting an update . . .

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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And this is why executives have famously low salaries/bonuses/compensation packages. They're content with sticking around because they had the company get a ping pong table.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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I especially like how there was an objection to the proposal to replace dead arbitrators with living ones.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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That article didn't mention it, but this includes their web site.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/10/13/best-buy-no-longer-sell-dvds-after-holiday-season/71173846007/

Like, if you don't want to devote shelf space to movies, OK, whatever. Turn your stores into glorified extended warranty shops or whatever it is you think you're doing, but not even stocking discs online is just dumb.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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I love how housing's "too volatile" for CPI, but including it in net worth calculations to show that everything's cool and good? No problem.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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$2 million? That's it? Yeah, that's not nearly enough stolen to just skate by. Needs to be a few billion, at least.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Welp, I'm never buying bulk candy at the grocery store again. I got a 16-ounce package of gummy bears (repackaged Albanese 12 flavor bears) and was foolish enough to not think to look at the price. Apparently they were $7.99.

Thanks, Safeway.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Xaris posted:

never shop at Safeway, it's really loving bad and insane rip off. like $4.99 for an individual plastic-packaged bell pepper rip off. WF is so much cheaper than Safeway it's not even funny

Unfortunately, I've got some dietary issues (low sodium), and a couple of their O Organics house brand products are the only things I can eat of specific things (like a salad dressing they make). I figured I'd pick up some gummy bears while I was there since they're cheap, right? Nope.

Xaris posted:

inflation is definitely very bad and feds are blatantly lying, but in this case that's just Safeway being safeway and hoping that the consumer base is premium or very dumb to not pay attention to the exorbitant prices on their goods. you can still get the equivalent 16oz from like target or amazon for <$4

Yeah, Albanese bears aren't that expensive at all. They're the ones that basically every company repackages for bulk sale (you can tell because they have a little "A" on their stomachs). MSRP for 1 lb. bag is $3.99. My local butcher carries repackaged 1-pound packs of them for about $2.50.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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err posted:

what about low 🤣🤣🤣

They don't consume. They are consumed.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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LuxuryLarva posted:

I looked at the stock market today and now I know what war is good for.

This is unironically the Biden White House right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvfY0d7kGg

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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a_gelatinous_cube posted:

A burrito might cost 10 bucks now

I love how an hour of labor at federal minimum doesn't even cover a loving burrito now. loving demon country.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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skaboomizzy posted:

yeah, WFH fuckin owns, my team lead who lives several states away tells me I need to go into the office one day a week and I'm about ready to tell her "make me do it and see what happens"

I'm in the middle of opening a new position (which I had to fight tooth and nail for, as we just had some layoffs), and I could only get it approved as an in-office position. Nobody this person is going to work with is in-office because we're all remote. Hell, none of us even live in the same state. Some folks even live outside the country.

There is literally zero reason to require somebody to head into an office for this job, but, no, that's what it has to be now. Because it will "improve collaboration".

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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gradenko_2000 posted:

huh I genuinely did not know such things existed

It's one of the more common ways people get infected these days. Ad vendors exercise zero quality control over the poo poo that gets pushed through their networks because it's in their best interest not to. There's no upside for them in turning down paying clients, so all the poo poo in there (ads that directly exploit security vulnerabilities in browsers just by getting displayed or ads that lead to sites that compromise people or whatever else) get served up with all the other garbage.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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gradenko_2000 posted:

I know that youtube ads exist
and I know that there are such things as ads that install itself on your computer if you click through an installer carelessly (and other such similar methods)
I did not know that malware can install itself onto your computer just by sheer dint of viewing an ad through youtube

It's one reason why keeping your browser updated is important (besides ad blockers being a good idea in general). Every now and again, yeah, there's some exploit that shows up where somebody can infect you just by having your browser load the wrong resource (image, video, font, whatever; it doesn't have to be an ad, but ads are the easiest way to distribute this poo poo to large numbers of people usually). A lot of times they run silently, too, so you don't even know you were compromised. That poo poo usually gets patched pretty quickly in an emergency update, but if you got hit before you updated, you're still running whatever the payload was that it dropped.

This was especially bad in the Flash/Java plugin days (those things were security nightmares), but it still comes up often enough today to be a major infection vector. Dunno about YouTube specifically, but in general anyway.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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What was especially creepy was when I was looking for a new office chair. I block all the ads and tracking bullshit and such that I can, but my housemate doesn't. She started getting nonstop ads for office chairs on, like, Facebook and poo poo (I don't use Facebook, either, or any other Facebook-owned service).

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Oh, it was absolutely IP address-based. That's the only thing it could have been because there was no other link between us. It was surprising, though, since I didn't realize Google was going that far to sell people's data.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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I've actually been looking at Orion, but it's not quite there yet. It's still got some performance issues that Firefox doesn't right now.

But, yeah, Google has very actively embraced throwing "Don't be evil." into the dumpster. I switched to an iPhone earlier this year because of Google's poo poo and while there are things that I really dislike about it, at least it's a little less invasive, in theory. And, in general, I've been moving away from Google's stuff. Google Voice is something I don't really know that I'll find a replacement for, though.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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I've actually been paying for Kagi (it's how I found Orion) since they claim not to store or sell your data. It seems to work pretty well, in my experience.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Xaris posted:

it's a few years old but still relevant: The Imminent Collapse of Digital Advertising

we still haven't seen the downstream effects of ZIRP going away but i think every year inches a little closer to some kind of reckoning to the FREE! ad-driven internet ecosystem

in the mean time, everything will continue to get enshittified.

I have a feeling this poo poo is going to accelerate as the ad industry gets closer to imploding and becomes more and more desperate to squeeze money out of the ether. I don't know exactly what that's going to look like, but it's probably going to involve more ads and more annoying ads to try to get something, anything, to show that they're not totally worthless.

Once that goes, though . . . I dunno. I don't think a lot of places really have any idea how to operate without advertising money.

Edit:

Paradoxish posted:

The impact of advertising in general is at least somewhat questionable, but internet advertising and "adtech" are really a special case. It's an entire industry obsessed with demographic chasing and targeting with no real awareness that there might be limits to their effectiveness. The real dirty secret isn't that it doesn't work, though, it's that data might not actually be as valuable as companies like Google and Facebook want to believe.

Like, how much does it actually matter that your IP looked at air fryers and baby crap? Literally the entire digital marketing ecosystem is built on the idea that the answer is that that data is almost infinitely valuable, and there's no upper limit on how much data might be genuinely useful. The whole thing comes crashing down if it turns out that maybe there's an upper limit to how much you can actually use that data to sell people crap.

Yeah, this. Somebody looking for something to buy might be open to a purchase, singlular, but once they've made that purchase (like the mattress earlier, or my chair), that's it. They're out of the market. Any further ads are wasted on them.

Kreeblah has issued a correction as of 09:42 on Nov 6, 2023

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Taima posted:

They're running out the clock on ad blockers so they have an ironclad excuse to move to their real end game which is inserting the ads directly into the videos (imo)

That's the weird thing. Google already has a system to do exactly that (look up SSAI, for server-side ad insertion; a bunch of companies have products for it these days, and Google's one of them). I'd have thought they'd have put it on YouTube by now.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Taima posted:

That’s interesting. I think they’re slowly building a case for using something like that, or at least that’s all I can think of because it feels like the actual endgame, right?

also lol phones are not listening to y’all

They don't really need to build a case for it. They could just do it and tell people to go gently caress themselves. For anybody who doesn't use an ad blocker, they'd never know the difference, and for people who do, we're just hosed.

Basically, how it works is by loving up how streaming video works these days. Everything's served over HTTP or HTTPS, but that's not really a streaming protocol. It's intended to serve files. So videos get chunked up into smaller pieces (like, 15-second chunks), and then there's a manifest file that tells the player where to find all the pieces. If it has different bitrates/resolutions/etc. listed in the manifest, the player can switch between them when it reaches the end of a chunk by grabbing a different quality for the next chunk. This is basically how all streaming video works today except for really old stuff that uses, like, RTSP or something.

SSAI bullshit fucks with that by rewriting the manifest to insert ads into it. The really lovely methods proxy the ads that get inserted into the manifest file through the same delivery hosts as the videos so your system can't differentiate the content and block it.

Nothus posted:

They're going to have to disable the playback bar while the ad is playing, otherwise it will be real easy to use their "most viewed" histogram to skip the commercials.

They're 100% going to do this, too.

Casey Finnigan posted:

i wonder if putting the ads directly into the video stream would open YouTube up to greater legal liability when the ads turn out to be scams or something like that and that's why they haven't done it yet

:rubby: at the idea of a company being held responsible for the ads it shows.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Kreeblah posted:

Welp, I'm never buying bulk candy at the grocery store again. I got a 16-ounce package of gummy bears (repackaged Albanese 12 flavor bears) and was foolish enough to not think to look at the price. Apparently they were $7.99.

Thanks, Safeway.

I was at QFC today (a Kroger-owned chain) and checked out the prices on their bulk gummy bears. They also resell Albanese 12 flavor bears, so it's a 1:1 comparison because they're the exact same loving thing (remember, these go for $3.99/lb. direct from the manufacturer all day long).

$7.49/lb. So, Safeway was more expensive at $7.99, but not by that much. The grocery leeches are just loving people on bulk purchases, I think.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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I've got an idea. Let's make auto loans non-dischargeable.

-Joe Biden, probably

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Russ Hanneman from Silicon Valley was basically laser targeted at grifting VC cash. He sums it all up in about a minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

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Shear Modulus posted:

since a recession is defined as when that one think tank says it's a recession it just means that they won't say it is one

They're totally going to invent a new term that means the exact same thing so they can say we were technically never in a recession thanks to the majestic leadership of Joseph Robinette Biden.

Twerk from Home posted:

I'd posit that anyone who can afford to finance a $90k Jeep Grand Wagoneer can afford to fuel it at 16mpg, even if gas hits $8/gallon.

That's only $5000 of gas per 10,000 miles, just nothing compared to what the truck costs. Gas isn't going to anywhere near that anyway, the poor would be ground into paste if it did and gas is under $3 a gallon still around me.

Congrats on your cheap gas, I guess? It's $4.50-$5 for regular around here. It's been over $6 before, and I could see it hitting $8 at some point when the SPR dries up. It's probably going to push some people over the edge when it does, because people are not thinking in terms of price shocks for this poo poo. Just monthly payments.

What I suspect is going to happen is people defaulting on their massive credit card bills (because the difference between price increases and wage increases is being sustained by credit right now), car loans, etc., all at the same time as it all goes to poo poo. I have no idea what happens when multiple consumer credit instruments are defaulted on in record numbers simultaneously, though (other than more bank bailouts, naturally).

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Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE


Taco Defender

Eric Cantonese posted:

I would totally love a cool muscle car too. I just wonder if I'm going to grow to hate it if I ever am able to afford one.

Aren't Millennials and Gen Z really uninterested in cars and totally happy to get driven everywhere if they can afford it? I think you still need to own a car in order to get anywhere in many parts of the US, but I wonder how much that has affected the future of auto sales.

I suppose there'll always be a market for collector cars, with the hot cars in question changing but the passion still there for people of means.

Can't speak for anybody else, but I loving hate driving, and cars need to die. Anything we can do to get cars off the road and make life better for other modes of transportation is a plus in my book.

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