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Lance Reddick has crossed over, and poo poo fuckin' sucks. That dude from The Wire/John Wick/Destiny/Corporate/Wishing He Was LeVar Burton/Everything Good You Like with that voice passed away today, and out of an overwhelming sense of "oh yeahhhhh" I turned not to The Wire, like probably everyone else, but to FRINGE, a show that really let him breathe without forcing him to fully break from the serious, hardass Homeland Security Agent-in-Charge start that he had in the show. What's truly insane about this show, though, is how it got right out of the gate how good its core cast was and broke from the sort of "J.J. Abrams Puzzle Box"/"X-Files Monster-of-the-Week" trappings that were probably used to pitch it as a product of Lost-era network clone grabbing. Its lore goes very deep; they clearly had more than the first season mapped out, but it was smart enough to know that it could be more than the initial germ and grew into a pretty sprawling, fun, insanely hook-filled set of middle seasons that leaned into multiple timelines. I just forgot how fuckin' good this show is, and re-watching it from the beginning reminded me of how much I loved Lance Reddick because of this world and the characters in it. If you've never seen the show, definitely watch it, and if this thread actually gets any traction, I'll happily do it up as a re-watch thing with some actual effort. Give it just an episode or three (which are sadly Reddick-light), and try not to get hooked. You have no goddamn idea where it's going to go, but the ride is so very worth it. And if you've already seen it, take it from me: it's better than you remember. poo poo holds up - both as a product of its needlessly post-added lens-flared time and as a thing that's never really had a true analogue since. RIP, B-Royles.
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Mar 18, 2023 04:32
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gently caress it, I never watched past the first season and the news about Lance Reddick made me feel miserable, so time to expand my exposure to the shows he was in and finally give the rest of it a go!
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Mar 18, 2023 04:34
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Jerusalem posted:gently caress it, I never watched past the first season and the news about Lance Reddick made me feel miserable, so time to expand my exposure to the shows he was in and finally give the rest of it a go! The shift from first to second season is pretty huge; all the LEGO poo poo is there, but they rebuilt it in a new way without it losing the original shape. If more folks are actually game to talk through things, I'll just graft this into the OP along with poo poo like images and things to make it more than just an impromptu memorial, but the seasons sorta break down like this: [Season 1] Monster-of-the-Week/X-Files while establishing character quirks; Walter is a brilliant cook (I was going to fix this as a typo, but dude makes TONS of drugs on the show, so no, it's actually right), Peter is aloof until he needs to be plot-powered smart, Olivia is a capable-but-boring audience surrogate, Astrid is overlooked to everyone's detriment. Charlie is field work and very little else, sadly. Serialization was there from the start, and every episode builds toward "The Pattern" - a series of technology that pre-crazy Walter came up with and are being mis-used. [Season 2] Walter's work becomes more central and far-reaching and the grander plan of the show begins to foment; character dynamics deepen and the Olivia/Peter thing forms. Astrid is still secretly awesome in every way, but writers haven't noticed yet. Walter is even crazier, but in more entertaining ways because drugs and food are funny and awesome. The seasonal arc ends in possibly one of the coolest what-the-gently caress moments of any TV show that started with such a semi-procedural crime/monster start. [Season 3] Holy poo poo, this show is twice as good now. All actors get to stretch HARD and are all fully up to it in every way. [Season 4] 'Kay, running out of steam a little with the original concept, let's delve deeper into Walter's past. [Season 5] God drat, they knew the end was coming and there's a bit of a time jump in terms of stakes. It's good it got a real finish, I suppose? The meat in seasons 2 and 3 are so loving good that the rest are dressing or goofy attempts at putting the puzzle box back together. Once you're invested, they're worth it, but nothing will match the ramp-up from season 1 to 2 to 3, so I'm glad you're giving it another go. There's a LOT of stuff they did seed in the first season to pay off later, so it's fun to binge it and see them bear fruit faster and without the need for weekly recaps or some annoying fan forum to break it all down. [edit] I'm being intentionally reductive about the overall characters and story as it goes on because honestly even just the ending of season 2 was spoiled, but at the time it was such a massive  moment. I don't really want to kill any of those for newcomers without just filling this thing with enough spoilers to look like it's all redacted - or maybe that's how I'll effortpost the OP if I do it.
SamBishop fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 05:01
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The floating text graphics in episode one are adorably bad 
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Mar 18, 2023 06:53
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I've watched this entire show 3 times now, but I might just have to give it a 4th rewatch. It kind of starts out as a goofy X-Files show but evolves into so much more. There is some top notch acting in the show, especially from John Noble. It'll make you laugh, it'll make you cry. It is good tv and I recommend everyone give it a shot.
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Mar 19, 2023 04:56
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Watching episode 3, I was intrigued by how the show would deal with the thorny issue of the priest suspecting via the medium of Confession that one of his parishioners was involved in a terrorist attack, and whether it would involve legal wrangling, a moral showdown, or Walter doing some science at it. Turns out the answer was.... the priest just off-screen called the FBI and said,"Yo this guy said some poo poo, here's his name and home address, see ya!" 
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Mar 19, 2023 04:58
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So I finished up season 1, which basically has me caught up with all the Fringe I've ever seen before. I had forgotten a lot of the finer details, obviously, but I still absolutely love the ending to the last episode and the reveal of where Olivia is. As a first season, the show is interesting as an example of that weird kind of hybrid attempt at serial storytelling and character arcs but ALSO maintaining the network (I assume it was on a network?) insistence on 20+ episode seasons that mostly consist of "case-of-the-week" writing. You can see they're trying to do a (then) modern, early 21st Century update to The X-Files where the main mystery is more integral to the plot, and when it works it REALLY works, and when it doesn't it's kind of embarrassing. Some bizarre things that stood out to me that I assume were a result of the writing schedule/figuring poo poo out were:
Now I imagine at least some of these may end up being addressed in season 2 and bring some closure, but the show did seem to have a weird thing where it would introduce stuff out of the blue and then just kind of forget about it. Also, I have no idea where they're going with further reveals/development etc, but something I found fascinating and I'm not entirely sure was intentional was the little peeks that gave us an idea of what Walter was like before he went into the asylum. I got the very distinct impression that he was a monstrously amoral person, and you see little bursts of that pop out at times before either Peter reigns him in or he shakes himself clear of it. The show tries to keep the tone light for the most part but he freely admits to performing medical experiments on children including his own son, happily took on all kinds of work where he was fully aware of what the horrific end use case would be, and had an air of superiority to him that gave me the impression he was NOT a nice person to be around. Of course in the present of the show, he's been through 17 years of misery, suffered what appears to be some kind of brain damage or memory degradation, and been humbled by the experience. He's now (mostly) an affable, eccentric old man who gets those odd bouts of arrogant rage brushed off as a personality quirk, but I feel like there's still some even darker (than what has already been shown) stuff behind the curtain. I certainly don't fully buy into the idea that Bell was the founder (or only founder, perhaps) of ZFT, that's the conclusion everybody in the show jumped to when they saw the typewriter, but I just assumed (maybe I'm supposed to) that it was Walter's baby. Anyway, despite all my complaints above, I like the show! I only bring them up because they're unfortunate reminders that this show was produced in a way that didn't let it take full advantage of all it could be. Looking forward to going into mostly uncharted waters for season 2 and beyond!
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Mar 25, 2023 12:21
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Some of these things are dropped threads that I assume at some point they had a plan for but then either thought better of or ended up not having space for. One of the most jarring things for me in s1 is how much they seem to have rethought Broyles' character after the pilot. I actually don't mind things like the sister and niece not showing up in an episode if there's nothing specific for them to do that episode (and I guess it might be a cost thing about paying the actors) but yeah, they drop some things for reasons that aren't always explained. (Megan Markle has an amazing vanishing character in s2) Some of it will come back up for sure, though, and without straying into spoilers, the stuff with Walter is not accidental. Walter's plotline is some of their best work, I think.
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Mar 25, 2023 14:15
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evenworse username posted:(Megan Markle has an amazing vanishing character in s2) Just watched the first episode of season 2 and I had no idea she was in this show (and now I know she apparently just disappeared this same season too, oh well!), that was a real mindfuck moment going,"Wait... why is a British Royal playing an FBI Agent!?!"
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Mar 26, 2023 01:46
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Is Season 1s DVD order the same as the god awful mixtape that was the airing order?
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Mar 26, 2023 19:01
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Just started a rewatch as well. I remember liking the show, let’s see how it matches up after nearly a decade.
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Mar 28, 2023 15:37
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My wife and I just rewatched this last spring and it was even better a second time around. The Walter throughline is just sublime. Even though its a sci-fi procedural, it is really a show about family and all that that means.
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Mar 29, 2023 04:57
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Jerusalem posted:Just watched the first episode of season 2 and I had no idea she was in this show (and now I know she apparently just disappeared this same season too, oh well!), that was a real mindfuck moment going,"Wait... why is a British Royal playing an FBI Agent!?!" The best part was when they announced their engagement, the British papers were all ‘FRINGE STAR MEGHAN MARKLE’ and I genuinely could not recall her at all.
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Mar 29, 2023 23:40
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I'm rewatching it as well, currently partway through season 2, and turns out that somehow a once-deleted season 1 episode was just sort of crammed in there. Imagine my surprise when agent Francis was randomly alive again. I thought I'd missed something important about a flashback or alternate timeline or something, but nope it was just studio fuckery.
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Mar 30, 2023 09:18
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Just got through episode 8 in season 2 and uhhh... I guess FBI Agent Meghan Markle died on the way back to her home planet? People said she just vanished but I kind of figured it would be halfway or more through the season, not after like 2 episodes! Of course she could still show up again, but there was a stretch of episodes there where Olivia was badly hurt and Broyles would say stuff like,"Well Agent Dunham is badly hurt so it wouldn't be appropriate to send her..." and I'd think,"Oh okay this is where the other Agent shows up" and then.... they just send Olivia instead! There even seemed like an obvious placement for her (not in his position, but as a supporting role) after Charlie got killed but... nope! I still don't know how she got the passwords to access the top secret classified Fringe division information and why that didn't immediately send her to jail (maybe it did!?!), and I suspect I'll NEVER know now. We'll see how things go but I had a bit of a laugh after all of season 1 being,"Massive Dynamic are involved in shady poo poo, they're clearly the bad guys.... no wait, they and Nina Sharp are actually legitimately trying to help and we were seeing them in the worst possible light!" to suddenly partway through season 2 getting,"Massive Dynamic and Nina Sharp are involved in shady poo poo, turns out they're clearly the bad guys.... again!" Also also, Olivia really just kind of let herself gloss over the implications of Bowling Shaman's powers and knowledge, eh?
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Mar 30, 2023 10:09
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I got distracted halfway through the show when it originally aired and didn't finish it, but I'm going back for round two now. I'm on episode 6 of season 2, and it's been great so far.
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Mar 30, 2023 10:16
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Perestroika posted:I'm rewatching it as well, currently partway through season 2, and turns out that somehow a once-deleted season 1 episode was just sort of crammed in there. Imagine my surprise when agent Francis was randomly alive again. I thought I'd missed something important about a flashback or alternate timeline or something, but nope it was just studio fuckery. This is another example of the very annoying shuffling FOX did with the early season running order. It’s kind boggling an executive looked at this and thought it was the right approach.
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Mar 30, 2023 14:38
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Fringe isn't THAT old but man it's kinda crazy to watch an episode where,"That lady had hand sanitizer in her house, clearly she's a deranged madwoman we should be looking into further" was a major plot point.Webbeh posted:This is another example of the very annoying shuffling FOX did with the early season running order. It’s kind boggling an executive looked at this and thought it was the right approach. I think the worst example of this has got to be Firefly, where I don't think they even played the first episode where all the characters first meet/get together on the first airing of the show?
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Mar 31, 2023 12:55
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Perestroika posted:I'm rewatching it as well, currently partway through season 2, and turns out that somehow a once-deleted season 1 episode was just sort of crammed in there. Imagine my surprise when agent Francis was randomly alive again. I thought I'd missed something important about a flashback or alternate timeline or something, but nope it was just studio fuckery. Ahaha oh my God I'm watching episode 11 and immediately suspected I knew what was behind the spoiler tag, and... yep, there's Charlie! Just chilling with everybody else. Even more ironic, it's an episode about somebody coming back from the dead.
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Mar 31, 2023 13:12
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The 1980s opening credits in season 2 is loving amazing  It doesn't really fit with the tone of the episode at all, it's still great though! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xND6ApPrXc&t=8s
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Apr 6, 2023 11:49
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Jerusalem posted:Just got through episode 8 in season 2 and uhhh... I guess FBI Agent Meghan Markle died on the way back to her home planet? People said she just vanished but I kind of figured it would be halfway or more through the season, not after like 2 episodes! Of course she could still show up again, but there was a stretch of episodes there where Olivia was badly hurt and Broyles would say stuff like,"Well Agent Dunham is badly hurt so it wouldn't be appropriate to send her..." and I'd think,"Oh okay this is where the other Agent shows up" and then.... they just send Olivia instead! There even seemed like an obvious placement for her (not in his position, but as a supporting role) after Charlie got killed but... nope! I still don't know how she got the passwords to access the top secret classified Fringe division information and why that didn't immediately send her to jail (maybe it did!?!), and I suspect I'll NEVER know now. Like many others I basically only know Meghan Markle's acting career from Suits and the fun trivia that she was one of the women standing by the cases on Deal or no Deal, but it is funny in retrospect to think about all the times she came on for a cup of coffee guest role and how all those shows must be kicking themselves for missing the opportunity to have someone with that level of fame be a major feature on their shows. I think she's a perfectly good actor, but if I was running a show and somehow (apropo for something like Fringe) knew anyone acting on my show was going to end up that famous, I'd be putting them on the main cast immediately and making sure they're in every episode I could get them on, regardless of their acting ability. Fringe is definitely a solid show. Like any show the quality will vary episode to episode, but I have nothing but fond memories overall of watching it.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:10
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Finished the show and one of the worst things about it is Astrid. Not that Astrid is bad, but that she's hardly a character. There's no depth or arc to her, she's just there to occasionally come up with an idea that helps the main characters come up with a solution. The alternate Astrid was much better in that regards, she got an entire episode where she dealt with her complex feelings about her father's death. And the show also didn't know what to do about the plotline about there being an ancient hi'tech civilization either-
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Apr 9, 2023 10:49
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So I finished up season 2, it was better than season 1 in a lot of ways but there's still a weird feeling like they were testing out and abandoning a lot of concepts/storylines and the whole thing doesn't feel particularly cohesive AND has a bizarrely rushed ending, even if it is a compelling set-up for the third season. I think my biggest issue with it is that I feel they kind of fumbled their handling of some of the explicit reveals about Walter's past, outside of a small number of incredibly strong moments where I got a better sense of what I think the show wanted to do and ended up pulling back from, whether because they got cold feet, the network freaked out about reminding people kindly ol' John Noble is essentially playing Dr. Mengele, or they just weren't capable of pulling it off. It muddies the waters a fair bit, especially in regards to Walternate (love that William Bell used that term too) who quite frankly appears to be almost entirely justified in his actions given what we see of the damage caused by Walter not just to the family but to the world as a whole. The rather lazy way they reveal he was planning to use his son to destroy the other world has nowhere near the impact it should have and seems to have been in place purely to give a reason for Peter to agree to go back to his own reality and that latter decision feels rather empty and unearned as a result, and discounts among other things the apparent complete lack of regard for his mother having to learn she just lost her son again. Throughout the season there are these moments where Olivia and others just tear into Walter (and Bell, though mostly through a proxy since he isn't there) for the utterly repugnant experiments they performed, but it always feels like the show is trying to get back around to everybody admitting they were right to do what they did. When we do get some flashbacks to Walter pre-the mental hospital, I was disappointed that he's still mostly shown as a kind of affable, slightly doddery but obviously brilliant figure, because I feel like the show has dropped plenty of suggestions that he was the far colder and more cruelly "rational" between he and Bell, and that there was a reason why Bell ended up being the face of their work most of the time. Those moments where the meaner Walter I felt was suggested actually comes through are great, giving Noble a real chance to stretch his acting legs as he suddenly becomes an entirely different person: his facial expressions, the way he stands, the sneering looks and the nasty satisfaction he appears to get in cutting people down. There's a moment where his mind is restored momentarily to how it was before the mental hospital and the immediate shift from scared old man to arrogant monster coldly mocking Newton for the plight in his world is just great stuff. There's the section in a flashback where he turns his hyper-qualified associate's very reasonable and justified concerns into a belittling putdown of her religious beliefs, or when he completely dismantles Nina Sharp for being a lovesick puppy chasing an indifferent William Bell. That stuff was great, because it showed there was a reason why nobody visited Walter in the hospital, why nobody missed him, why Peter never visited, why Bell and Massive Dynamic moved on without him, why all those trial kids who actually do remember him are immediately hostile and in some cases homicidal when they see him etc. If he was just a slightly more together version of the Walter we otherwise normally see, it lacks the impact those other moments promised. As for the season itself, it's still got a problem with dropped subplots, weird pacing and shortcircuiting emotional connections etc. Meghan Markle's marvelous disappearing trick has been mentioned plenty of times, but Charlie's death and replacement kind of fizzled out, Newton's resurrection was sold as being their way of finally achieving goals that could not be achieved without him but... there doesn't appear to have been any reason why HE needed to be there to accomplish anything they couldn't have accomplished regardless, and the lack of urgency from Fringe Division into finding him despite Bell's warning that failing to prevent his return would spell calamity felt odd. Olivia's "powers" remain weirdly sketched out, they appear to have completely dropped a subplot about Broyles and Nina being in a relationship, they keep going back to the "Massive Dynamic are secretly evil" well and everytime Sharp reveals she's been openly lying to or obfuscating facts about cases and then everybody goes back about their business feels like they just used her and the company as proxies to get from point A to point b in a story when they couldn't think of anything else. The show is still good and very watchable! As with season 1, these issues I bring up because they're getting in the way of what is otherwise a really good, easy to watch show with some very good acting from John Noble who is absolutely killing it no matter what material he's given to act and perform, or what issues I have with the writing for his character. Onto season 3!
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Apr 9, 2023 13:33
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Somehow I totally missed this show's original run, I don't even remember hearing about it, but I've heard it mentioned now numerous times in the wake of Lance's passing, so I figured I'd give it a shot and watched the pilot last night, seems like a pretty fun show so I plan to keep watching.
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Apr 12, 2023 16:28
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John Noble was the best actor on tv for a good 4-5 years during this strech.
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Apr 12, 2023 19:03
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Oasx posted:John Noble was the best actor on tv for a good 4-5 years during this strech. John Noble is a guy who will commit to playing a part. It was kind of stupid as hell watching him play a whiny teenager with daddy issues on Sleepy Hollow but he loving well committed to playing that whiny teenager with daddy issues. He was a whole lot of more fun/cool on Elementary playing Morland Holmes, Sherlock's father. And one of the more hilarious bits on Legends of Tomorrow had the Legends notice that the demon Mallus sounded a lot like John Noble (because Noble was doing the voice work for that character on LoT). So they time-traveled to 1999 or so in New Zealand where Noble was filming Lord of the Rings and got him to read some dialogue so they could use it to trick one of the demon's allies. I miss the gently caress out of Legends of Tomorrow.
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Apr 12, 2023 22:22
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Husband and I just finished a rewatch. Had forgotten about how in that era of TV, genre shows heavily inserted product placement for things such as Sprint mobile and car brands like Nissan. 24 was also very guilty of this.  
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Apr 13, 2023 02:39
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It's never really been anything but insinuation, but there was a lot of indicators over the years that Fringe was being aggressively hosed with behind the scenes in order to make it more marketable or for some other bullshit reason. e.g. them nearly firing Anna Torv and replacing her with Markle, or the way they fired Kirk Acevedro (he was pretty pissed off on twitter about it IIRC). Blair Brown was pretty unhappy with the show as well. There's a few more things that happened in season three, but I'm not gonna mention them because spoilers.
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Apr 13, 2023 09:59
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Oh man, they fired Kirk Acevedo? When he popped back up at the end of season 2 and was in the first episode of Season 3 I figured that meant he was back for the long haul, that's a shame. I've been a fan of him since he was in Oz. Wait, was Markle's 2 only appearances because they were gonna get rid of OLIVIA!?!
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Apr 13, 2023 10:17
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In her recent post about Lance Reddick’s passing, Jasika Nicole mentioned ‘the toxic dynamics of that production’ wrt to Fringe, and it just makes me more curious.
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Apr 13, 2023 19:21
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The_Doctor posted:In her recent post about Lance Reddick’s passing, Jasika Nicole mentioned ‘the toxic dynamics of that production’ wrt to Fringe, and it just makes me more curious. The only thing I have heard was her mentioning that she really didn't like Walter always getting Astrid's name wrong. Which was very weird since Walter is just like that, and it pays off the times when he calls her Astrid.
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Apr 13, 2023 19:36
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Gelf posted:Husband and I just finished a rewatch. I was just thinking about this today - how noticeable was it on a rewatch for you?
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Apr 13, 2023 22:26
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Webbeh posted:I was just thinking about this today - how noticeable was it on a rewatch for you? I've only watched the first couple of seasons but the only one that really stood out to me was a scene when they were using their GPS and the camera was doing all these weirdly lingering shots that made me assume that it was somehow going to have plot relevance and like, the bad guys were going to use it again them or something. Apparently it was just so the Nissan logo would be prominent? (I did not notice the logo)
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Apr 15, 2023 01:51
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I’m completely blind when it comes to product placement, I have rewatched Fringe many times and I still never notice it.
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Apr 15, 2023 05:12
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Fringe is one of my all-time favorite shows, despite all the dropped plot lines. My favorite is Peter has a son!! Whoops never mind, that timeline got erased! Might have to do a rewatch. It should be a good show to crochet to.
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Apr 15, 2023 13:16
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This show really scratched the x-files itch, until it fully ran out of things to do and just went full-on lost style bad. Which, in retrospect, so did the x-files but somehow even worse. The major standout was john noble. They really lucked out in casting, and the fact that he stayed on the show the entire run somehow. It was hilarious watching the queen of nepotism, anna torv, literally learn how to act over the span of this show. TBH, she wasn't bad by the end. Those earlier seasons, especially the first season's ender reveal, fun watch for sure. You could not pay me to watch the back half of this thing again. God speed first-time goon! e: for anyone not aware, this show was a FOX show, and anna torv is the niece of rupert murdoch. We roasted her wooden acting hard in the fringe threads, trust me. e2: for some reason I also remember a huge emphasis on hidden messages and those circles/dots as a theme, and I really can't remember if any of that ever paid off whatsoever or they just dropped it hard. I vaguely remember there was some sort of code in the opening titles or something and people going wild... in retrospect, again, all that ARG poo poo that was trendy back then was all a giant waste of time, let's be honest zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Apr 15, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 14:59
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Torv's estranged from the Murdochs (and most of her family), as I understand it. And FWIW I've seen some of her pre-Fringe work and she's not particularly subdued in that (she's honestly good). I wonder if it's the accent, or just a style they were going for here; it's not like Pacey is any better in this. I do think she becomes better in the role as the show goes along though, yeah. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Apr 15, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 15:09
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Open Source Idiom posted:Torv's estranged from the Murdochs (and most of her family), as I understand it. I don't blame her on that one I gotta wonder what the character breakdown was for olivia..like looking back on how she played it for a good chunk of the show, it's got that emotionless autism vibe And yeah, joshua jackson was either phoning it in, or giving it his all and his all has no range. I liked him on the affair, but he really is in that school of james franco where he doesn't stretch at all...I think that's what makes the later seasons even worse, he sucks as a lead also lol anna torv married the actor who played john scott, there's some fun fan fic for you when you watch this kirk, lance, and john all did what they could with this show, the split in talent across the cast was always interesting.
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Apr 15, 2023 15:19
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ok, here's a positive post "white tulip" is still one of the best time travel episodes of any episodic sci fi show, and I will fight anyone on that there's a direct callback at the very end of this show to this ep, which did nothing for me, but the ep itself is incredibly well done, and IIRC a bottle ep that could be watched out of context of the larger show..this is also something from part of me also likes to think it's a homage to the first test version of the twilight zone "the time element" https://twilightzone.fandom.com/wiki/The_Time_Element zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Apr 15, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 15:33
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Yeah, I always kinda figured that Olivia's flat affect was mostly a matter of direction or writing. I thought it makes for a pretty fun contrast in those moments where she's actually allowed to emote, like when she's hanging out with her niece or as Fauxlivia. But yeah, Jackson/Peter gives me nothing. For a character as central to the plot as him, his performance is just... nothing.
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Apr 15, 2023 18:40
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