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Best Eikon
Phoenix
Titan
Garuda
Ramuh
Shiva
Odin
Bahamut
Ifrit
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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Out of curiosity, are the accessory slots only for the difficulty modifier Timely accessories, or are there also accessories that are just normal pieces of equipment?

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Terper posted:

https://twitter.com/VGAR_SA/status/1653711143528181760

Game officially confirmed to not be available in Saudi Arabia because SE were unwilling to change the game's content.

Whatever that implies.

There were some tweets a couple months ago about FFXVI having LGBT content that the team was not going to remove or censor in any region to avoid being banned, so I'm guessing that's what this is about.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Final Fantasy XVI - Clive - yeah that is a sexy name

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Kingtheninja posted:

Do we know if there's an actual party in this game? Or is the party Clive and torgal?

You only directly control Clive, and you can give orders to Torgal. There are AI-controlled party members who are around for an unknown period of the story (but apparently a lot of it going by statements the devs have made) but you can't directly or indirectly control them.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Somehow the combat's even better than I was expecting. This demo is a blast

Titan mode is easily my favorite. That parry is incredibly satisfying.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

RatHat posted:

Are Cid and the Garuda lady not actual dominants? Or were they choosing to not go full Eikon mode there?
EDIT: Looking at the bios on the official site they are indeed dominants. I guess going full Eikon is a last resort


Yeah Dominants can enter like a "half-eikon" mode. That's also what Clive does when you use his limit break.

Ibblebibble posted:

One of the clips from the State of Play stream that wasn't in the demo has got me thinking.

It's the bit with the eikon battle between Phoenix and Bahamut. Either A) Joshua is still alive and playable later or B) Clive can turn into Phoenix as well as Ifrit.

I could see it either way. Joshua is the Phoenix so him coming back seems possible, but also it's possible that at some point Clive inherits the Phoenix.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Oh and as for the part with Torgal at the end of the prologue:

My guess is Clive's having like an out-of-body experience. He hears Torgal whimpering and it brings him partially back to consciousness, but he's not fully aware that he's the Ifrit who's tearing into Phoenix, so he's seeing (or feeling) it like he's a third party observing it.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I've gotta be honest, I was starting to get a little skeptical of FFXVI. I never posted about it because I mean what's the point, just to rain on the parade? But I was starting to feel like some of what they were describing--the blockbuster movie thing, the roller coaster ride thing they kept repeating--was making it sound like it was basically any other AAA narrative game. Combine that with only one playable character and I was starting to feel like maybe I would be disappointed.

This demo cleared that up entirely. The story presentation is exceptional so far. The combat's an absolute loving blast. Everything in the demo kicks rear end and I'm now hyped through the stratosphere

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Something else to point out in the Ifrit vs. Phoenix thing: pay attention to their eyes. An eikon's eyes are blue when the Dominant is in control, and red when they aren't. Phoenix has red eyes until Ifrit appears and Joshua exerts control, then his eyes are blue for the rest of the scene. Ifrit, meanwhile, has red eyes. That's definitely Clive's Ifrit, but because he has no control he's observing it like he's a third party and isn't yet aware that it's his body being taken over by Ifrit.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Supposedly the demo is an old build--someone pointed out the demo is v1.01 and the version they played during the pre-release celebration stream was 1.03 or something along those lines (might not be those exact numbers). So it's possible performance will be a bit better for the full release.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Xerophyte posted:

This is of course possible but I would not put down any money on it.

Yeah, and really the performance isn't like bad it's just not perfect. If it's not better for release I'll be fine.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Everything they've shown so far has just had Clive using a sword so I'm pretty sure he only uses swords. There might be extra moves you can unlock as you go that change up your basic attacks but I also wouldn't be surprised if that stays mostly the same throughout.

Kingtheninja posted:

If I just fought Morlbo about how much of the demo is left? I had to break for the day.

You're about halfway through the prologue part, and then there's an extra roughly hour-long segment you unlock after that where you can try out what the combat feels like with more eikons.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

punished milkman posted:

i doubt that joshua stays dead. they coded up a whole system to use him as playable character. seems like a lot of effort for a 10 min section!!

I wouldn't be too sure. Having just played a bunch of Resident Evil games, like every one of those has a section where you play as someone new with different moves, weapons, and puzzle-solving tools for like 15-30 minutes and then never again.

That said he is the Phoenix so it's also entirely possible he'll come back in some way.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Here's what I want to know: why are the two armor slots just wristwear and belts? Why belts? Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, it's a very Final Fantasy choice (see also FF7's all-wristwear armor lineup), I'm just so curious who made the call for "belt" to be one of the two slots. Did they need somewhere to keep all the belts they cut from FFXIV?

It especially made me laugh when the description of Clive's starting belt says something about not expecting it to provide much protection. It's a belt! I don't expect any belt to provide any protection, except maybe against pants falling down.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Someone mentioned earlier that it feels like they're setting up for a Clive and Jill romance and that made me realize: have we had a romantic subplot in an FF game since X? Because I can't really think of one, unless the player can date NPCs in XI or something. XII had some flirting with Balthier and Fran (and a little with Ashe) but that's it; XIII had an implied romance with Fang and Vanille, and Snow and Serah's romance is off-screen; XIV's an MMO that doesn't really do romance; and XV has another that's mostly off-screen until one party gets killed after about five minutes of screen time.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Endorph posted:

the zack/aerith stuff was a decently big part of crisis core and ff7r leaned into the love triangle stuff more than early game ff7 did but in terms of new mainline ff, nah. unless you wanna count a few subplots in 14.

I was talking more new mainline but yeah FF7R does play more into the Cloud/Aerith/Zack triangle and the Cloud/Tifa/Aerith triangle, that's true.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I said come in! posted:

Has there been talk about side quests and how much will be there? This being a YoshiP Final Fantasy, I am hoping for an overwhelming amount of side content.

Previews have shown side quests and there are apparently a lot of FFXII-style hunts for optional bosses.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Cardboard Fox posted:

Demo ending question:
Are they implying that Clive is Ifrit? Or did I miss something huge?

Just from the demo: I think Clive is Ifrit, yes, but he doesn't have control and was basically watching helplessly while his Ifrit-possessed body tore up the Phoenix.

More details from trailers (spoilers if you haven't watched any trailers): Clive is definitely the Dominant of Ifrit, but it also appears there may be more than one Ifrit so it's potentially in question whether that was his Ifrit or not.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Relentlessboredomm posted:

Oh I’m not worried about spoilers, i just know i wont want to stop so I’m trying to hold out.

Lol this is what happened to me. I went from “I’m sure I’ll like this game but I’m not losing my mind over it” to “gently caress I need to play more RIGHT NOW”

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

funkymonks posted:

Re: Ifrit

Yoship has specifically said they wanted to make Ifrit a protagonist Eikon because he usually gets a bad rap in most FF games. So unless he was being extremely misleading, there is likely something going on that has caused Clive/Ifrit to lose control.

That was a really brutal cutscene. I had to look away at the end.

I’m interested to see if the Clive at the very beginning on the demo actively remembers any of it or is just having nightmare visions about it.


Of note about this: Eikons' eyes let you know if their Dominant is in control. Blue eyes means the Dominant has control, while red means the Eikon is running rampant and has gone berserk. You can see Phoenix's eyes are red when Joshua first transforms, but turn blue when he exerts control to fight Ifrit. Ifrit's, meanwhile, are red the whole time. So I think that's probably Clive as Ifrit but he has no control and might not even realize it's his body.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I like how FF8 kind of set the standard for Ifrit's design. Before 8, Ifrit usually had a more human-like face, but 8 made him more bestial and that design stuck ever since.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I've gotten used to it. "Clive" just seems like a normal FF character name to me now. They got me. I've been got.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

cock hero flux posted:

i never understood people's problem with clive, the games have always had a mixture of regular guy names and weird bullshit

It definitely never seemed any more out of place than Cecil, so yeah.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I wonder if we'll see Ambrosia again. They made sure to show that she got up and ran away before Ifrit emerged.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

They've shown her off repeatedly, she is the chocobo you ride around in game.

Oh sick I didn't catch that was the same chocobo. Neat!

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Mordiceius posted:

Jesus christ. I just realized that since Cid is the Dominant for Ramuh he actually is Thunder God Cid. drat you YoshiP!!!!!!!! :argh:

god drat it I didn't notice this lmao

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Can't wait to hear how much storage FF7 Rebirth is going to take given that the physical version is gonna be on two goddamn discs lol

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Captain Oblivious posted:

It's a character action game. It is literally Devil May Fantasy.

Diablos May Cry :colbert:

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Yeah the default control scheme seems almost perfectly designed to make magic bursting as hard as possible. As soon as you don't have to do both actions with the same thumb the timing gets a lot easier.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Skeezy posted:

Only thing I need to know with the weapons, do new weapons show up on Clive?

We've seen several different swords in gameplay trailers so I'd say so

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I don't really mind if equipment is fairly shallow and linear. What I've learned over time is that it feels good to find upgrades either in shops or by finding them during exploration, even if the items themselves aren't interesting and there's no real decisions to make. I prefer an interesting equipment system, but weirdly I think I prefer a boring gear system over none at all, too.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

Depends on if you're doing sidequests but pretty quickly. You'll have enough to mix-and-match anything but limit breaks (and you can probably fit one or two Mastered in there) before the end of a standard playthrough and NG+ basically lets you start really meshing everything in.

I will note that despite doing all sidequests both times I did not have enough skill points to fully Master every skill in every tree but it was pretty darn close and also that is completely pointless to do because you only have 6 slots anyway.

I think you can also respec all your ability points any time too, right? So I imagine experimentation is pretty easy to do.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Danger posted:

Is he Cid? He is a standout by far.

He is, yes

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

Cid 16 is my favorite Final Fantasy Cid

His voice work in the demo alone was incredible so I'm excited for more

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


lol

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Endorph posted:

the deep complex tactics of hitting the water boss with a lightning spell for more damage. no ff game has really had complex strategy. like he mentions 'debuffs' and who on planet earth has ever used a debuff in an ff game?

Debuffs are pretty important in FFXIII but that's about it (not counting rebalance mods like FFXII Struggle for Freedom or whatever since those are mods and not representative of the games themselves)

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Endorph posted:

ff13 debuffs are sorta weird because they arent really optional things that are a part of strategic depth like in some turn based RPGs, there being a whole class based around them makes them pretty core to the experience imo. so they kinda feel different to like, casting Slow or whatever

True, I was about to add on that they just feel like a core stage of combat and not really something you do to gain a strategic edge. It's as much foundational to FFXIII's combat as the stagger mechanic is--not some strategic thing you do to get an edge but just part of the default flow.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

All FF games should steal 7R's weapon system.

:hmmyes:

Just maybe with an easier to navigate menu, but yeah otherwise I love being able to customize weapons a bit and have different weapons for different purposes

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I definitely wish there was more to itemization but I personally prefer boring equipment to no equipment at all. I just like finding equipment upgrades even if they're boring and straightforward.

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Something I found interesting about the SkillUp review was that a lot of what he complained about are things that are also true in FFXIV, like elemental types not mattering or the linearity of dungeons or the pacing of the story and side quests or boring itemization. That's just all FFXIV stuff.

I don't know why I'm surprised but I do think it's really fascinating how FFXVI turned out to be a single-player FFXIV with action combat. I mean I should have seen that coming but somehow I didn't.

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