First Quarter 2023 D&D Feedback.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > First Quarter 2023 D&D Feedback.

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

VitalSigns posted:

Oh I could provide examples, but only if you are really interested, because I don't keep like a spreadsheet of posts I reported for breaking the rules, and I gave up on bothering with reports that won't get acted on anyway a long time ago so it would take some time to hunt them down.

But I do remember the individual post that made me conclude that reporting people who break the rules while agreeing with the mod teams' politics was a waste of time, and that "well nobody reported them" wasn't why they weren't being punished for stuff that anyone else would get hit for.

(This was from before this person was made a mod btw). Seems to break like every rule. Posting about posters, assuming bad faith, meeting effort with no effort.

Yeah this is the problem with these threads being so infrequent (the last one was over half a year ago iirc) and short. Sure there are a ton of individual instances that you could point to, but who in their right mind is going to keep a list of these things until whenever the next feedback thread is?

I can try to see if I remember some particularly egregious posts, but that'll take time. How long is this thread going to be open? I hope it's not just for the weekend, because I literally just now noticed it.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 14:48

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 03:31

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

cinci zoo sniper posted:

The last one was in November, meaning that this is a month behind their cadence for the last year. And this one will probably stay open just for the weekend indeed, as they usually would.

If you actually want adequate feedback, you should probably keep this open for at least a week. That's my feedback right now.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 19:24

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Now that I think of it, it would also be nice if the mods could show how they've considered feedback from previous threads. Doesn't mean they have to follow every suggestion, but right now there's not much direct indication that these feedback threads are actually doing anything.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 19:28

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Deteriorata posted:

The problem is that "You got probated for being an rear end in a top hat" gets translated to "I got probated for being a leftist."

The perceived persecution then is used to justify further assholish behavior.

The problem is that liberals who post like assholes are given more leeway.

Fortunately I just remembered that I had a PM conversation with Koos about this, so here are some examples.

Discendo Vox posted:

There is plenty of coverage- to the point that you are promoting a conspiracy theory by working backwards from the conclusion you are wanting to find, and prioritizing false beliefs in order to "know" that it is worse than it is. To wit:

is not remotely plausible. It indicates you have not read any of the material already posted about what happened, what the substances involved are, and what is getting done. You seem to be taking every single "why isn't this getting more coverage!?" post, anywhere, at face value; a process of ratcheting perception that could be applied to any event, anywhere. The fact that your beliefs aren't true is being used to justify them.

Strawmanning, accusation of bad faith.

Discendo Vox posted:

No, I haven't. They're working backward from their own misperception about perception. They want it to be bad news, so they are doubling down on needing there to be bad news, to the point that they are overtly unmooring their standard of how things should be covered from reality- literally alleging a conspiracy because the bad coverage isn't worse.

Accusation of bad faith.

Discendo Vox posted:

Nah, the quote, like the rest of celadon's nested claim, is about coverage. celadon has alleged that the fact that coverage isn't as lovely as they want it to be, as ignorant as some of it already is, is evidence of conspiracy. It's a demand that coverage be worse, working backward from such a need.

Accusation of bad faith.

Discendo Vox posted:

Okay, great. celadon has alleged that the fact that coverage isn't as lovely as they want it to be, as ignorant as some of it already is, is evidence of seeming conspiracy. It's a demand that coverage be worse, working backward from such a need.

The coverage of the incident, and the discussion of it, doesn't need to be as lovely as they, or you, want it to be.

There are plenty of people giving really lovely takes unmoored from reality about the situation. A bunch of them have been posted in the thread! You're doing the exact same "why aren't more people talking about this" takes as those people, about those people.

There was a horrible black cloud, and there was urgent messaging regarding immediate evacuation, and there were already several pages of people telling them to knock that poo poo off, right here in the thread, evoking that. Why are you seeking for public perception to be more delusional?

Strawmanning, accusation of bad faith.

Discendo Vox posted:

I'm not interested in promoting or tolerating misinformation, in the broader press or here, to pursue your fantasies.

Accusation of bad faith and generally being a condescending rear end in a top hat.

All of these posts were reported. None of them were acted on. And this is just one conversation. Now maybe it's my bias speaking, but I don't think that accusing people of promoting conspiracy theories and "wanting news coverage to be shittier" is very conducive to a healthy debate environment.

Especially since the poster DV is responding to, celadon, appears to be one of the subject matter experts that DV has expressed interest in bringing back to D&D.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2023 14:43

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Jarmak posted:

Yes they do, which is why I used the word implies.

There is nothing about the term promoting that implies that the one doing the promoting doesn't believe what they are promoting or is acting with malice. To promote something, in this context, is to bring attention/publicity to it. In the case of making a post about something on a message board "promoting" is about as dry and technically accurate as you can get.

"Promoting" implies a high degree of activity to me. Maybe you don't see it the same way but I would suggest investigating your biases in this discussion about biases.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2023 15:14

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 03:31

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

I probably should have also pointed out that in my conversation with Koos, he said that the posts I linked were indeed in violation of the rules, but he thought that DV only needed a warning. This seems to point to me that DV is given special leeway - I've never received a PM warning from mods, but I have several probations that genuinely took me by surprise. As feedback, I would suggest that more warnings be used, either in thread or via pm, to try to cool things down. Probations often have the opposite effect in the long run, when if they temporarily silence the culprit.

At the end of the day, nobody is ever going to be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the rules are or aren't being enforced fairly. I can only report on what I see from my perspective, and I have to trust that my opponents won't simply move the goalposts. I have gone out of my way to provide evidence as requested, so I ask that my efforts be treated with some degree of charity. That is the essence of good faith, or at least how I understand it.

Now that I've jogged my memory, I can probably think of a few other posts that were reported but not acted upon. I'll try to look for them after work. And thanks for keeping the thread open as requested, these things take time

# ¿ Mar 28, 2023 16:14

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