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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Arguing about the distribution of small business owners without stats or a specific definition of “small” is deeply silly.

You’re just comparing anecdotes based on tummy feels.

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.




The Palmer Report just makes poo poo up for lefty clicks.

You really need to learn to check sources. Do you want help?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Why are there so many votes (i.e. any) for Zeldin, of all people??

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Piell posted:

He's like the designated "I don't want to vote for the leading candidate so I'm parking my vote here for now" person, this happened last time too

Just feels like weird pick.

loving Zeldin.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Sorry you presumably were in Staten Island though.

That’s rough.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



some kinda jackal posted:

I hope they nominate me

You could probably bribe George Santos to nominate anyone you wanted.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



You haven’t heard of gopdom?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



shimmy shimmy posted:

I don't know why but I'm weirdly amused by the fact that it's apparently police procedure to say 'we know you're in there!' even if you don't actually think that. I mean, shoot your shot I guess

The dude hiding in the 37th house doesn’t know you’ve been shouting it at every house.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Neurolimal posted:

If you can't be held accountable for voting for someone, then Trump voters can't be held accountable for voting for Trump. They simply made the insignificant moral calculus of choosing who they perceived to be the lesser evil, probably didn't think he'd actually follow through on anything; he didn't even build the wall!

I don't think many in this thread would agree with that. I certainly don't, which is why I cannot fathom voting for Joe Biden, overseer of the 2023 Gazan genocide.

I’m not going to delve deep into the everything that’s going on in this post, but your logic here is explicitly that a thing must be true (voting is a direct line for all moral responsibility) because if it wasn’t you’d be sad (Trump voters must be punished).

That is a very bad argument and you should not use it.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



uninterrupted posted:

People who voted for Hitler, Trump, or Biden have equal culpabilities for their actions, I doubt there are many people here who'd disagree with that

Elections were for parties not people in the Weimar Republic so it’s a moot point. At no point was “Hitler Y/N?” something on a ballot.

It’s really weird how people like referencing the rise of Nazism a lot more than they like knowing how it happened.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



theCalamity posted:

I don’t think that will be very convincing. You’re asking people to support the person who is helping in murdering their family, an extraordinary position and this doesn’t really match what is being asked of them. In fact, I think they will become very angry with you if you tried that.

It’s incredibly despicable that there is a calculus in who gets to be genocided or not. I don’t know if you realize or it, but you’re basically asking one group to sacrifice themselves to save another.

And you're being particularly helpful with this? Are Palestinians going to die happier knowing that you are proudly astride your high horse holding out a small amount of help from someone else because voting would sully your moral purity?

I don't see how taking umbrage with a bad situation and refusing to engage helps anyone. No one here is under the impression that this is a good or fair situation.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Elephant Ambush posted:

I know you're probed and can't respond to this but this is for the thread in general. The governor of California, a Democrat, recently vetoed a law that would protect trans kids. I know that's just one state but it's always brought up as the most progressive state that chuds hate the most. And to extend that to women, the Democrats got leaked a Supreme Court decision that was going to overturn Roe vs Wade and they did nothing. They had a majority and could have codified abortion as being legal nationwide but instead they said "hey donate a bunch of money and maybe we'll do something". They did not codify abortion as legal in this country because they did not want to. Democrat party leaders are also on record multiple times endorsing anti-choice Democrats who are running against pro-choice Democrats in certain House races

Voting for all these useless donation collectors has done nothing good for this country on a grand scale except for us pulling out of Afghanistan and as others have mentioned that whole things started under Trump unfortunately

Voting for Democrats does not result in good things. It results in slightly less bad things and the difference between what Democrats deliver and what Republicans deliver is almost imperceptible. And when they do get a majority they don't listen to anyone. All of a sudden villainous traitors like Manchin and Sinema suddenly appear. And then when those dummies agree to do something good then all of a sudden we have the Parliamentarian that nobody ever mentioned in the last however many decades of politics. I've been following politics since high when I voted for Clinton in my first election and I have never once heard of that role and it hasn't been mentioned since because again, it is very obvious that Democrats invent artificial evils when it suits them to do so because they don't want to piss off the billionaires that control every single one of them. All of their kids can get abortions if necessary with no problems. If any of them have LGBTQ family members they're perfectly safe because of money and power. They do not actually care about you or the women in your life or any of the immigrants at the Mexican border because all those camps are still there under the "less bad" party

You're getting mildly dog-piled for this post, but I just want to add. People are correct to point to the things like trans rights and other Democratic policies that are easily, demonstrably better than Republicans' plans, but I want to bring up a more personal point.

Hi ElephantAmbush! Remember me, the guy who played Gloomhaven with you a bunch? If it wasn't for the watered-down bullshit imperceptibly better than nothing ACA I'd be dead. I almost died while between health insurances and that policy is the reason why I got to get surgery and, y'know, didn't loving die. The ACA does nowhere near enough, it's a pretty lovely implementation of any of its policy aims, but it's still the sole reason I'm alive.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Mid-Life Crisis posted:

Wrong.

Trump absolutely bucked the neocon status quo of the last half century and went isolationist in foreign policy. Which is what most of his voters wanted him to do. And will vote for him again to do.

Things he didn’t do were either 1) congress’s job not the president or 2) Jeff sessions pulled out immediately and let the hit job commence against him instead. The latter is a fault of Trump because he has no friends and justice department required someone he could trust to spring the traps Obama left him. But of course he has nobody he can trust to do that role.

Trump commandeered the Republican Party, they did him no favors and are still fighting out the takeover. No sane person expected actual legislation to go through, Democrats won’t cross the aisle for him. Even though most of the stuff he preached was a Democrat platform from a decade ago.

“the traps Obama left him”

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Foxfire_ posted:

There's some cynical local politics reasons for New York. A bunch of current districts changed in 2022 have slim partisan leans, and depending on current lawsuits might get redrawn again for 2024.

A bunch of 1 term incumbent GOP representatives will probably be running in divided districts and "We kicked out that corrupt guy next door, even though he was the same party, look how fair and non-partisan I am" is a good reelection story for that.

In as much as my local anecdotal perspective is worth anything : lol lmao good luck with that. There are a lot of people pissed at them, especially Molinaro.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Romney lived in France for two years.

No excuse.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



mannerup posted:

if the question is on how left-wing they are personally, I don't think that is really a useful metric since its not really a falsifiable statement. Biden could theoretically be the most personally left-wing President the United States has ever had, but if that isn't reflected in the legislation they implemented then it's a meaningless distinction.


Well that was expressly the statement under discussion. How would changing the topic to an unrelated thing help?

quote:

I don't disagree with this assessment, but as Hieronymous Alloy pointed out with Biden being the most left-wing President since Carter (which I think is a fair argument), that just means he wasn't as conservative in policy as Clinton or Obama during the peak of the third-way neoliberal policy implementation years.

That is how comparatives work, yes.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



There are also these things called trains.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



cr0y posted:

In the US? No.

The entire country used to be covered with train tracks. They tore them out to build roads.

There is no intrinsic reason the US can’t have a functioning railroad network, just like every other developed nation. This is the same American exceptionalism bullshit, just with transportation infrastructure instead.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



And street cars. Pedestrian-only zones with even a half decent street car system are the best.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Sure but it’s not like the US has a magic field that makes infrastructure expensive.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Actually it kinda does. Lower population density and the spread out layout of American cities effectively permanently forces the prices up dramatically and means that revenues from tickets (if you're talking about trains and such) are going to be garbage nearly everywhere. So financially they'd have to be run at a loss, and on public support, for a long long time. Think a decade or more easily in the few areas where you could guarantee enough people would ride them to get enough revenue in. Many would never become financially self supporting from ticket fare and would permanently be on public support.

You'd effectively have to rebuild most US cities and greatly increase the pop. density to fix this. Get rid of the suburbs at a minimum.

That is flat out not going to happen. Attempts to try and increase pop. density in the cities has basically gone nowhere these last 10yr or so. People in general just don't want it, the cities are often too expensive anyways and quite frankly suck to live in for the most part, and people will aggressively vote out politicians and city planners who try to make it happen.

The best you can do at this point is go hard on electric buses unfortunately. Which isn't a very good solution IMO but its better than nothing.

Yes, people have stupid views and we’re stuck with bad infrastructure.

No that is not a magic causative field. There’s nothing about North American geography that dictates it be used in a lovely way.

This is an entirely, 100% human made problem and the exact kind of thing you can convince people over time. We can change this. We already need to replace everything because it’s falling apart and killing us.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Where’s the urban planning thread? I have Thoughts.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



BUUNNI posted:

I don’t think the virus went anywhere though :v:

A loving lot of people did though. And for some reason the anti-vax walk-off-the-plague party took the worse of it.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Perhaps the youths on tiktok would enjoy the works of Dr. Noam Chomsky.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



I think perhaps that letting the South African emerald magnate have a monopoly on going everywhere that's not-Earth was a bad idea.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Bucky Fullminster posted:

He saw what happened when RBG held on to the job for too long, instead of passing the baton to keep it alive, right?

Is anyone in his circle trying to convince him to step aside? Can the public?

Those positions aren’t even a little bit analogous.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Bucky Fullminster posted:

By refusing to let someone else step in, he is effectively letting republicans have more power than they otherwise would.

But yeah, it's orders of magnitude worse.

Stamping your feet even harder is not, in fact, evidence.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Bucky Fullminster posted:

We can't prove something in the future, but it's based on the fact that I don't think he will win. And the GOP will get more than just a supreme court seat as a result.

That’s not how that works.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Mid-Life Crisis posted:

Trump heavily campaigned on isolationism and did many isolationist acts that pissed off neocons. The whole NAFTA arguments, etc. His blurts of shows of strength were just his strongman tendencies not a policy.

If neocon is foreign conflict to sustain petrodollar, Obama let Hillary do her damage in Libya. Afghanistan had nothing to really do with petrodollar anymore. Israel is his bloodthirsty moment.

O I got it now.

You have no idea what words mean.

That’s not what “isolationism” or “neocon” mean to anyone else. Even if your definitions were internally consistent, that’s not how anyone uses them.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



“No, you see, the totalitarianism will be benign when it agrees with my ideals.”

And again, you’re assuming there’s some secret cabal of Democratic leadership that would be directing this. You have provided no evidence of this.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

In reality the futility argument indicates that you are implementing rules that people do not want to find to be unreasonable. The idea of a phone ban is absolutely both to large numbers of people. Instead of realizing that, many of you are going full IN on being over the top authoritarian on the issue.

Just have reasonable use policies and aid children in having better control and etiquette with their devices as part of the curriculum.

Meanwhile, kids are going to have and use phones in the real world, and schools need to get their poo poo together to actually solve the problem with reasonable rules and enforcement of those rules instead of trying to wish it didn't exist and force everyone else to do the same.

As for my situation, my kid has had to call me almost a dozen times this year due to a missed bus, just no bus at all, or with info on someone else that lives near us needing transportation as well due to no bus or missing a bus. This is all after extracurriculars as well so nobody is in the office to let her use a phone. Even if the school had a policy to not bring a phone she would absolutely bring her phone, and the school can get hosed because they don't need to know or care if she isn't using it inappropriately. That doesn't mean I want her playing on her phone in class time or using it in other inappropriate ways.

Someone made an argument about not having phones in the class due to it being able to take pictures. My response is that cameras have existed in schools far longer than phones. Kids were taking disposable cameras, old point and shoot digitals, and even old film cameras to school regularly.

Are you going to say what this “reasonable policy” is, as distinct from the systems in the article under discussion?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Removing kids that use phones during class from the class would be fine after a number of warnings. Or forcing a check in check out system. I have no issue with preventing their use during class, and schools do need to be able to enforce that.

They have these systems in place in most schools already. The problem seems like one of enforcement than figuring out what the rule should be.

Just don't do blanket bans as they will not work.

So you don't have such a system. You are explicitly just saying do the same poo poo, but harder. The thing that we're talking about not working, based on a study.

Do you understand why people think you're being unreasonable?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

I've already provided my own personal examples of why this doesn't work.

No, you've thrown a temper tantrum about how the rules shouldn't apply to you and your child's toy is more important than people actually learning at school.

You don't provide any evidence except for the classic "well it works in my personal anecdote" line of non-argument and trying to dodge. You've argued with every person here who works in education and refuse to address basic points.

This is classic FYGM-lite and people are correct to take you to task. There are a lot of serious issues that you're hand-waving away as non-existent while absolutely refusing to acknowledge that other children besides yours exist and deserve to be taught uninterrupted.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Man your reading comprehension is garbage.

Bans will not result in a better outcome, so do tell what your solution is.

Do you have evidence for this besides just saying it over and over?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Yeah cool welcome to my position this entire time.

The reality is that schools are underfunded, understaffed, and already overburdened with responsibilities, but y'all just want to pile on more and just assume that every school will just magically be able to fit your perfectly spherical cow ideal scenario.

Yes, that's why the people who are arguing with you are mostly teachers. The people with the least experience in a classroom. Obviously.

You've barely responded to any of the actual points except stamping your feet and insisting everyone else is an old (ignoring that many of the people are actually younger than you.)

How exactly are we supposed to argue with someone who has no relevant experience, qualifications or evidence, who refuses to address points of argumentation and who can only respond with personal insults. You don't even have a proposed solution! You just try to weasel and say that you want a "sensible" position ; ignoring that you don't actually have one except for doing the same poo poo on a different day.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



D-Pad posted:

You can really tell which posters have kids currently going through the public school system in the US and which ones don't.

Just like it's very obvious who here has ever tried to teach a class.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Baronash posted:

This is dumb and if you have points please make them.

I was mocking that argument for being dumb.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



D-Pad posted:

You mean how the two teachers who posted here said full bans aren't realistic?

Do you have an actual argument?

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



gently caress that looks like it was a nightmare to type.

I don’t know how boomers do that poo poo. I can type so much faster than I can switch keyboards.

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



BabyFur Denny posted:

Huh, when I visited NYC I found the public transport system there pretty horrid. Everything looks like it has been running for several decades with little or no maintenance, the stations and trains are all grimy, dirty and smell like pee, the coverage is mediocre at best. I haven't been to any other city in the US but surely it can't get much worse than that?

There’s a good argument that the NYC subway is the best in all of North America. You’re also not wrong in your assessment : it’s okay-ish at best, with a lot of grime and decay on top.

It is a loving dire continent if you like good transportation infrastructure. Most cities have no actual infrastructure, so maybe there’s an anemic and very spotty bus service somewhere relevant, if you’re lucky. Everything is designed to favor cars, to the point of having demolished most of the (often pretty good) pre-automobile infrastructure to build more roads.

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