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my workplace is real strict about breaks. on sundays when I am in charge I tell people to take their time but when weekday management is around you better stick to your ten mins the people working here need to realise they have the power. they used to be fairly replaceable but not these days too many however have that internalised thing where they’re like “the business is the most important thing” ya know? i’ve made it clear that if you wanna let me go home early I’m outta there. everyone else if you ask them if they wanna go home early are all like “are you sure?? what if it gets busy in five minutes?” and all that poo poo. i’m trying to teach everyone to trust everyone else more, if someone says “you can leave early”, then trust that they’ve evaluated the situation and determined you’re supernumerary already, so trust them and go home. anyway lol
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Mar 29, 2023 03:44
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tell them about your affection for the Taliban, OP
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Mar 29, 2023 04:56
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Great, I'm glad I could help. The process is super confusing when you first out, but don't worry, In a few weeks you'll know it like the back of your hand. If you have any questions and you can't find the answers in the docs, just sing out and I'll do my best to help out. Taliban ftw, AnimeIsTrash
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Mar 29, 2023 07:52
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i think the best thing you can do for newbies is teach them how to communicate technical ideas to non-technical people and how to asks questions that let you make sure business and technical peeps are aligned. oh and teach them to keep a log of everything they do along with notes from manager 1:1s so they can have proof when it comes to raise promotion time. i don't personally do this but i wish i did/had started the habit early.
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Mar 29, 2023 15:18
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back as a junior, the thing that put me more at ease was seeing senior engineers put their money where their mouth was and actually pipe up with “i don’t know” or “i don’t understand this” once in a while it’s one thing to hear that the culture is to be fine with asking questions or not knowing, but seeing it is another. hell they didn’t even get drawn and quartered on the spot like how i anxiously thought would happen to me
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Mar 29, 2023 15:18
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when juniors ask me for help the first words our of my mouth are very often "hmm i don't know" (which is often the case, even when I do know it's often old stuff i forgot about), then we find out together and it seems to work well to make them feel safe with admitting they don't know things + asking questions
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Mar 29, 2023 15:44
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Zlodo posted:when juniors ask me for help the first words our of my mouth are very often "hmm i don't know" (which is often the case, even when I do know it's often old stuff i forgot about), then we find out together and it seems to work well to make them feel safe with admitting they don't know things + asking questions I do this too, but one person's takeaway was "asleep doesn't actually know very much"
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Mar 29, 2023 16:11
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i can be a curmudgeon sometimes but threads like these are nice because they help remind me what i should focus on myself with younger folk.
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Mar 29, 2023 17:24
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post hole digger posted:i can be a curmudgeon sometimes but threads like these are nice because they help remind me what i should focus on myself with younger folk. its really funny dealing with certain types of older programmers all day, and then realize youre not dealing with someone like that at all. most of the folks i work with get super defensive and every conversation is an argument. i had to catch myself several times to not do that when talking to our new hire
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Mar 29, 2023 17:36
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im not that old but its funny to see them get hung up on the same stuff you used to get hung up on. she was getting too lost on big picture stuff so i broke down stuff for her into smaller more manageable stories e.g. create a basic X implementation, get it connected to Y, etc shes much smarter than me so hopefully she leaves for a better job after a year
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Mar 29, 2023 17:38
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AnimeIsTrash posted:most of the folks i work with get super defensive and every conversation is an argument literally trying to beat this out of a new c/w right now ive dropped a 'this is not reddit'
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Mar 29, 2023 18:18
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Asleep Style posted:I do this too, but one person's takeaway was "asleep doesn't actually know very much" Yeah, you have to be careful about this if the people and work culture at your job are bad. At my old job, the engineers who were the most talented at hiding/talking around technical uncertainty were the ones who seemed to be the most highly regarded by the management. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 11:50
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pro tip: ignore the instinctual desire to show them text messages sent by friends that discuss various sexual antics
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Mar 30, 2023 23:53
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echinopsis posted:pro tip: ignore the instinctual desire to show them text messages sent by friends that discuss various sexual antics “you can actually use a Boolean here to short circuit future checks also have i told you lately that MY FRIENDS DEFINITELY gently caress.”
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Mar 31, 2023 00:30
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not me, just my friends
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Mar 31, 2023 01:50
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our timelines are at least 3 months long, and we build our own pipeline of stories in the backlog and prioritize them as a team. somehow, unfathomably, i am the senior guy, so it actually takes effort from me to get them to have an opinion besides “whatever cheese wants to do sounds great” come on my dudes you are the target audience for your work product, not me. they get all skittish going from a definitive checklist of work items every week finishing their degree to “heres a bunch of stuff you could do: which one resonates with you or has a good energy?”
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Mar 31, 2023 14:48
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teach then that the max they should ever work at is like 60% and keep it at that level or lower, and then when it is really crunch time they could ramp up to 65% but then to recover from that they need some time at 40%
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Mar 31, 2023 15:07
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quote:I get to mentor a new hire at work
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Mar 31, 2023 15:25
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fresh_cheese posted:our timelines are at least 3 months long, and we build our own pipeline of stories in the backlog and prioritize them as a team. kids: "You can't tell me what to do old man." cheese: "That's fine. What do you want to do?" kids: "Uhhhhhhhhh......."
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Mar 31, 2023 15:51
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poemdexter posted:kids: "You can't tell me what to do old man." seriously. its a unicorn of a job. go learn cool poo poo. write blog posts or papers about what you learned to try to accelerate someone exactly like yous experience if they follow you its not exactly completely open ended but as long as you include the major company product in there i can spin basically anything they want to do to the business and justify whatever. but if you waste time and dont deliver anything cool in 3 months because you didnt have anyone giving you weekly homework assignments, then youre hosed. great liberty requires great self discipline and thats basically my sole hiring criteria. are you self motivated? if left alone for a quarter are you gonna watch pornhub the whole time and panic to me in the last week when youre on deadline? some thrive in it, some dont. i place the ones that dont as best i can.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:14
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theyre so adorable when they start, thinking theyre all hot poo poo with their brand new bachelors in software engineering or masters in comp sci or whatever i give them a relatively simple first project and tell them straight up it is an afternoons work for me while im on continuous zoon meetings, and their challenge is to do it in less than 2 weeks with an empty calendar. how do you come out of college with a computing degree not knowing how tcpip works? or what a file system is? or the distinction between code in a text file and an executable binary? i knew that poo poo in high school just from building networks to play doom on. the only thing I expect from new hires now is motivation to learn cool poo poo and experience with code in some form. the hatred for all computers will come in the fullness of time.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:27
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fresh_cheese posted:seriously. its a unicorn of a job. i think the payoff in your situation is that the people who can handle the liberty end up caring a bit more about the work they do compared to the people who just want to be assigned a jira story and don't think or do anything beyond what's labeled in the acceptance criteria.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:28
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fresh_cheese posted:the only thing I expect from new hires now is motivation to learn cool poo poo and experience with code in some form. this is, imho the most important thing to look for wrt hiring. a place i worked at a while back made sure to let team members be part of the interview process so I was able to voice my opinion on potential hires. we interviewed an ex marine that quit the military and went back to community college for computers (i don't remember if he even got a degree of any sort). he couldn't code himself out of a wet paper bag but you could 100% tell he was hungry to learn and motivated to succeed. i pushed hard to hire him and mentored him for about 6 months. literally moved my desk next to his and pair programmed a ton. it's been years, but i've made sure when i swapped jobs to make sure he knows where i'm going and tell him to tag along if the place is decent after a few months. he's fantastic now and still has the same motivation. i'd rather spend the rest of my career building up people like that than trying to convince the script kiddies who think they know everything that no, it's not ok to play code golf with our poo poo to the point where we can't build new features without rewriting almost the entire application.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:36
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fresh_cheese posted:theyre so adorable when they start, thinking theyre all hot poo poo with their brand new bachelors in software engineering or masters in comp sci or whatever you sound like a bit of a shithead here ngl
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Mar 31, 2023 16:38
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fresh_cheese posted:our timelines are at least 3 months long, and we build our own pipeline of stories in the backlog and prioritize them as a team. fresh_cheese posted:seriously. its a unicorn of a job. fresh_cheese posted:theyre so adorable when they start, thinking theyre all hot poo poo with their brand new bachelors in software engineering or masters in comp sci or whatever you okay there chief?
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Mar 31, 2023 16:39
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Catpain Slack posted:you sound like a bit of a shithead here ngl i am a shithead, fair point. i put a lot of effort into not being a shithead at people in person. i kinda do the socratic thing where i ask leading questions to try to point them at the information they need without saying go google this specific topic. i generally find out weird corner cases about what theyre working on that i would not have known about otherwise, i say that to them, and then we go learn it together but yea am shithead known issue working onit
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Mar 31, 2023 17:33
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AnimeIsTrash posted:you okay there chief? slow friday, waiting on doc reviewers to finish was cruising threads and it caught my eye ill shutup now
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Mar 31, 2023 17:34
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fresh_cheese posted:slow friday, waiting on doc reviewers to finish I might have been a bit harsh, and I apologize, but I'd like to elaborate. This specifically caught my eye: "i give them a relatively simple first project and tell them straight up it is an afternoons work for me while im on continuous zoon meetings, and their challenge is to do it in less than 2 weeks with an empty calendar." As a newbie in the IT industry, this kind of poo poo is nothing but a ticket to the impostor syndrome zone for new hires/fresh graduates. Personally, I'd see this as a sign that I should probably not work here for long.
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Mar 31, 2023 17:45
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fresh_cheese posted:theyre so adorable when they start, thinking theyre all hot poo poo with their brand new bachelors in software engineering or masters in comp sci or whatever this is how i feel when i work with older guys who know the linux shell like the back of their hand while i still struggle to remember how to pipe things into grep
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Mar 31, 2023 18:20
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Catpain Slack posted:I might have been a bit harsh, and I apologize, but I'd like to elaborate. This specifically caught my eye: yea that came out a lot harsher than i really present it. its more like say “ok your laptop is all set up. time to get familiar with the lab! go explore, heres passwords , ids, and a ppt diagram - try to go do this task documented here. ill check in on you in 2 hours, if you have questions ask immediately. i do not expect you to know at least 50% of this, so this is really about learning who knows what on the team as you ask for help moreso than doing the task. its basically a treasure hunt and that doc is your map.”
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Mar 31, 2023 18:20
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kids today are stupid as hell imo
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Mar 31, 2023 18:23
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fresh_cheese posted:how do you come out of college with a computing degree not knowing how tcpip works? or what a file system is? or the distinction between code in a text file and an executable binary? because people graduating today grew up in an era of tech largely being walled gardens, and it's possible to get to the university level without ever having touched a non-tablet device. see also: instructors complaining that their students don't know what to do with a compressed archive file
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Mar 31, 2023 18:30
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rotor posted:kids today are stupid as hell imo agreed. also old people also me.
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Mar 31, 2023 18:37
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I remember having an Indian grad student responsible for grading my poo poo and it was insulting just how little she knew. i had to be a bit rude in correcting all her mistakes or my poo poo that worked would have been graded zero. there’s definitely too many people out there who have zero critical thinking skills. this is a problem in North America as well, tho there’s also the issue that some Other Country institutions essentially reinforce this kind of poo poo, rewarding recitation over all else
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Mar 31, 2023 18:38
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i dont really expect new grads to have written their own transport protocol in C on top of UDP sockets and then built a chat program on top of that. but like, do something lower level than fully ide ified java or python comp sci educators! a student should have direct exposure to more technologies than a web browser for chrissakes
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Mar 31, 2023 18:53
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we just brought two new hires on board, and while the one i'm on-boarding is doing well, holy poo poo is the other one bad. doesn't follow the on-boarding docs, has been copying/pasting poo poo from the on-boarding doc into his terminal without understanding it or tailoring it for his needs. has suggested we completely throw out out existing config management system for something else, and has tried pushing locally built docker images to our production ecr registries. this is gonna be fun.
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Mar 31, 2023 19:29
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fresh_cheese posted:
I enjoyed reading them maybe coz they made me feel a bit like I could one day do that gotta get my head out my rear end tho that’l never be me
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Mar 31, 2023 20:12
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echinopsis posted:I enjoyed reading them its all about how the environment you land in either supports or prevents you from growing. i put effort into figuring out what kind of projects my peeps are good at and enjoy and move the business forward. not every team is able to do this because thats just not how the job is for everyone. it sucks that work sucks, generally. im happy i can do something for my folks that makes work suck a little less.
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Mar 31, 2023 20:20
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nudgenudgetilt posted:we just brought two new hires on board, and while the one i'm on-boarding is doing well, holy poo poo is the other one bad. doesn't follow the on-boarding docs, has been copying/pasting poo poo from the on-boarding doc into his terminal without understanding it or tailoring it for his needs. has suggested we completely throw out out existing config management system for something else, and has tried pushing locally built docker images to our production ecr registries. im mixed on this mostly because i have to work with a bunch of guys who wont just answer "hey whats the command for X?" and give you smug smiles while you try to get that information out of them
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Mar 31, 2023 20:43
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AnimeIsTrash posted:im mixed on this mostly because i have to work with a bunch of guys who wont just answer "hey whats the command for X?" and give you smug smiles while you try to get that information out of them oh, i'll give out commands to help all day, but when someone says something doesn't work, and they send me a screenshot where they pasted an example of an interactive session into their shell (which them screamed about not understanding any ofthe commands), i get worried. especially since this person has 20 years of experience and describes themself as a unix hacker
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Mar 31, 2023 20:50
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