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Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. So what can we do to make them less traumatic. After all, fire drills are rarely traumatic, and historically school fires have killed sometimes hundreds of students, so they're dangerous and we take them seriously but they don't have students texting their parents about giving their playstation to their friends. The National Association Of School Psychologists, and the National Association of School Resource Officers, and Safe and Sound Schools Best Practice Considerations for Armed Assailant Drills in Schools. all emphasis mine quote:Schools have engaged in armed assailant training for decades, most traditionally with an emphasis on the nonsensorial, no role-play lockdown approach. Over the past decade or so, however, there has been an increased push for schools to engage in more options-based training, similar to the “Run, Hide, Fight” model (U.S. Department of Education, 2013). While these drills have the potential to empower staff and save lives, if not implemented correctly, they can cause harm. Available research supports the effectiveness of nonsensorial lockdown drills (i.e., drill done by calmly walking and talking through the procedures, with no simulation of a real-life event) implemented according to best practices. Especially with younger students, we recommend avoiding highly sensorial drills that involve simulation activities to mimic a real experience as they can be traumatizing A running theme here is that doing things poorly can be almost worse than doing nothing at all. A poorly run active shooter drill is going to traumatize and gently caress people up, a well run drill where the students are slowly brought into it, at an age-appropriate level, can make people feel safe. quote:It is critical that participation in drills be appropriate to developmental level and physical abilities, and take into consideration prior traumatic experiences, special needs, and temperaments. School-employed mental health professionals should be involved in every stage of preparation. They lay out 8 steps... quote:STEPS FOR CONDUCTING SAFE, EFFECTIVE, AND APPROPRIATE DRILLS The multidisciplinary team is super important because the SROs and law enforcement are going to be hyper focused on the tactics, run/hide/fight, stop the killing, but the school mental health professionals and parents are going to be able to say “ok but do we really need to fire blanks into the air during the drill? (the answer is no) As mentioned earlier in the thread, this stuff all costs money, so ensuring that costs are kept low or even that drills dovetail with other emergencies (in places prone to tornadoes, practicing for a shelter in place for a tornado can also provide muscle memory in an active shooter situation, with less trauma, and meet the existing safety goals for example). The document dive deeper into some of the points from above but I think a key thing that it says that some school districts need to be considering is the idea of options-based drills. quote:Options-based drills provide students and staff with a range of alternative and additional strategies to save lives (i.e., evacuation, barricading doors). These are not lockdown drills (rather, lockdown is one element of an options-based approach). The premise of options-based drills is to allow participants to make independent decisions depending on the situation such as the nature of the threat, time of day, and the location of students. Options-based drills are appropriate as long as careful attention is given to age, developmental appropriateness (see Appendix 3), and any trauma risk factors, as well as the physical layout of the school campus (e.g., ease of access to outside doors and proximity of places to hide other than classrooms). If a school determines to teach optional responses to a specific threat, such drills should be conducted in a nonsimulated, nonsensorial way. Strategies can be offered as classroom lessons, wherein students are told about the different options that adult staff members may consider as they strive to ensure student safety. All participants should know when a drill will take place, and potential participants (and parents) should be offered alternative options for obtaining knowledge and skills if they deem it necessary for their well-being. School leaders, SROs, and local law enforcement may be involved in teaching techniques. At no point should students be given the instruction or impression that they are expected to act as heroes (i.e., fight, defend, counter) in a life-threatening situation. Some people have this idea that surprise drills are somehow more effective when if you think about it for two seconds it’s obvious they are not. If you tell a teacher on monday, that on friday there’s going to be a lockdown drill, the are going to spend time that week running their own mental checks, talking to students about it, getting ready. They know which students are going to have a harder time and they can spend extra time on that. They know the new teachers might need extra coaching and can handle that. Then, on drill day, they go through with flying colors because they had that time to prepare. quote:Impact of Adult Behavior on Children’s Behavior - The behavior of an adult in an emergency directly affects the physical and psychological safety of students in crisis. Therefore, the effectiveness of armed assailant drills relies on educating and training adults carefully, responsibly, and continually. Students look to faculty and staff—the designated trusted adults on site—for direction and guidance. When adults are well-trained and stay calm, the students are more likely to follow and gain confidence and ability. Seems kind of obvious but sometimes people forget the point here.
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Apr 9, 2023 16:18
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PT6A posted:I guess my question would be: if you take gun control out of the debate, why does the US still have an exceptionally high amount of spree violence compared to other countries, The truth is it doesn't, unless you limit "other countries" to northwest Europe and the Commonwealth, maybe, on a good day  a decade old but it still holds true, and violent crime in the US has only declined since.
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Apr 9, 2023 17:00
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The truth is it doesn't, unless you limit "other countries" to northwest Europe and the Commonwealth, maybe, on a good day The OP was about spree violence specifically, for which I don't have any charts handy. Still, not sure how hand-waving away peer countries is very helpful
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Apr 9, 2023 17:32
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I found this from CNN but it's really not useful data  quote:Gun violence as a whole is extremely common in Central American countries. In Honduras, the homicide rate is many times the global average. Because of heavily armed gangs in Honduras, school shootings are so frequent, they often barely register outside its borders. As such, the true number of school shootings in Honduras is unknown, but believed to be high.
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Apr 9, 2023 18:18
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The truth is it doesn't, unless you limit "other countries" to northwest Europe and the Commonwealth, maybe, on a good day A lot of the countries glowing red on that map might not meaningfully have rule of law in some areas . . . like the police will wear masks to prevent retaliation from cartel/gangs or the country will have crazy stats like 1/4th of the women living there will have been beaten by their partners in the past year. It is a little misleading to compare homicide rates in places like that to the US.
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Apr 9, 2023 19:30
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Elendil004 posted:Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. So what can we do to make them less traumatic. After all, fire drills are rarely traumatic, and historically school fires have killed sometimes hundreds of students, so they're dangerous and we take them seriously but they don't have students texting their parents about giving their playstation to their friends. This is putting lipstick on a pig. The reality is that outside of immediately filing children into a supposedly bulletproof bomb shelter that will need to exist in every classroom in America, you can't prepare schoolchildren for being hunted down and shot to death. It is not a natural disaster. The overall drive by authorities is to militarize schools, and after shootings that receive major news coverage, lockdowns become panic-driven and pointless.
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Apr 9, 2023 23:24
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I said this in another thread but I had a professor whose ultimate solution to school shootings was you need to attack en masse and accept that some or all of you will die and how that's ok if you're attacking to defend other people He was a WW2 vet with extremely strong moral stances (denied a law license due to refusal to state if he was a communist) Also I simply exempted my kid from lockdown drills so he doesn't have to do them , no point having him grow up scared for no reason
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Apr 9, 2023 23:48
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Schools are built like bunkers already, the problem is there aren't enough egress routes. Every class room should have a fire alarm door that leads to the outside. And if that isn't practical, then cluster rooms into groups of 2, 3 etc with doors directly linking them and the middle having a fire exit. Basically a way to quickly get out without having to expose yourself to a main hallway AKA bullet funnel.
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Apr 9, 2023 23:54
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Elendil004 posted:Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. So what can we do to make them less traumatic. After all, fire drills are rarely traumatic, and historically school fires have killed sometimes hundreds of students, so they're dangerous and we take them seriously but they don't have students texting their parents about giving their playstation to their friends. I guess we could try to optimize what's the best way to teach people on how to perform these drills. And until we can get a better way implemented, I guess we just have to accept the ~39-42% increase in anxiety/stress/depression Or, you know, we could just do something about the guns so we don't have to do active shooter drills. Kalit fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 9, 2023 23:56
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Elendil004 posted:Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. I do think it's striking that almost every part that you pulled out to highlight is focused on minimizing the inevitable harm of armed assailant drills, be it stress/trauma, cost, or disrupting class. But armed assailant drills are not like fire drills. Fire safety is actually useful! So are tornado drills, which (contrary to your comparison) have very little in common with lockdown drills because generally students move out of the classroom into central areas away from any egress. Plus, both of these natural disaster drills tolerate a lot more goofing around, because, remember, we're talking about kids. A fire doesn't care if you sit on the grass or, if once the class is counted, you play a classroom game. A tornado doesn't care if the kids (who are all huddled next to each other!) chat quietly or giggle about how ridiculous this is. If a student is curious or worried, a teacher or supervisor can reassure them that yes, these plans will save their life if the worst happens, because they often do. Both natural disaster drills also involve all of the students from multiple classes together in a safe place, both providing a model for each other and reassuring each other with their presence. If I were going to think of something similar to armed assailant drills, it would be politically-driven "safety" drills that emerged to appear to be doing something about a national mania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqXu-5jw60
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Apr 10, 2023 00:05
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Elendil004 posted:Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. So what can we do to make them less traumatic. After all, fire drills are rarely traumatic, and historically school fires have killed sometimes hundreds of students, so they're dangerous and we take them seriously but they don't have students texting their parents about giving their playstation to their friends. Do schools now do sensorial drills like that document is referencing or do you have any information about that? That seems insane to me if they do that, but I didn't see anything in that document about it. I may have missed it though. I agree with the overall idea of having a drill though, especially if it is announced. It gives the teachers time to prepare like you said and they can use the time to discuss concerns with the students in their class. Fire drills were just kind of annoying because of the alarm. But fire drills also didn't have the fire department set up a bunch of gas ranges and light them on fire like we were running out of some actual inferno. They kept mentioning the use of blanks and firing off rounds, that is crazy unnecessary and would traumatize anyone. It seems like the responders who are also using this as a training drill are overstepping their purpose. To continue the firefighter analogy, they would show up at the school and simulate setting up equipment for practice but never go past that. But a firefighter also trains in simulated firefighting scenarios with actual fire. Shouldn't active shooter responders practice actual shooting in a separate simulated instance?
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Apr 10, 2023 00:08
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gurragadon posted:Do schools now do sensorial drills like that document is referencing or do you have any information about that? That seems insane to me if they do that, but I didn't see anything in that document about it. I may have missed it though. I agree with the overall idea of having a drill though, especially if it is announced. It gives the teachers time to prepare like you said and they can use the time to discuss concerns with the students in their class. I've only seen one sensorial drill and it was an incredible, traumatizing, clusterfuck. So it definitely happens, though I have no data on how often. And you're right that first responders should be practicing sensorial drills but with roleplayers not kids (though often groups like scouts, or police explorers can be used but they should get a bunch of beforehand training for it). Generally for drills in my area we use local college kids in majors related to emergency management/public safety. Kalit posted:I guess we could try to optimize what's the best way to teach people on how to perform these drills. And until we can get a better way implemented, I guess we just have to accept the ~39-42% increase in anxiety/stress/depression Maybe somebody smarter than me can parse that more, but do they break out the types of drills (e.g. sensorial vs non-sensorial?). Is their dataset really just twitter and not like, interviews or on-the-ground-gathered data?
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Apr 10, 2023 01:48
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mobby_6kl posted:The OP was about spree violence specifically, for which I don't have any charts handy. Still, not sure how hand-waving away peer countries is very helpful Yeah, that was exactly my point. Take Mexico: the numbers are bad, in terms of homicide. Really, really bad. But cartels do not shoot up schools because they had a rough week; they find their enemies, and brutally kill them. That's bad, of course, but it's really a different flavour of bad. You never really have the concept of an "active shooter" because the people doing the killing have very specific people they mean to kill, and they do so, and then leave. I've seen it first-hand, I watched a dude carry out a hit in broad daylight in GDL. It's loving terrifying, but he didn't go around looking for other people to shoot, he didn't want a shootout with the cops, he just shot this dude in the head and tried to get away. When he failed to get away and the cops had guns drawn on him, he submitted to arrest. Afterwards, he told the cops "[guy who he just shot] said he was going to find me and kill me. So I found him and shot him first." I don't approve of his actions, but I do understand his point. That's not great, it hosed me up for a while, but it's different from the psychological pressure of seeing someone who wants to kill as many people as possible, essentially at random, just for the sake of killing them.
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Apr 10, 2023 01:53
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Elendil004 posted:Maybe somebody smarter than me can parse that more, but do they break out the types of drills (e.g. sensorial vs non-sensorial?). Is their dataset really just twitter and not like, interviews or on-the-ground-gathered data? I would highly recommend reading through the study, it's fairly short (for a study). It's even shorter than the Armed Assailant Drills in School article that you had just posted. As far as your first question, they did not break out the types of drills. If you care, I'm sure you could dive into the data yourself and figure out what locations these schools are at. For your second question, on top of social media posts before and after shooter drills that were implemented based on specific location/school followings, they did do a focus groups as well.
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Apr 10, 2023 02:48
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Kalit posted:For your second question, on top of social media posts before and after shooter drills that were implemented based on specific location/school followings, they did do a focus groups as well. Ahh I missed that, It's on my list to read in depth but I won't lie some of the words lost me when they were talking about methods and stuff.
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Apr 10, 2023 02:50
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PT6A posted:Yeah, that was exactly my point. Take Mexico: the numbers are bad, in terms of homicide. Really, really bad. But cartels do not shoot up schools because they had a rough week; they find their enemies, and brutally kill them. That's bad, of course, but it's really a different flavour of bad. You never really have the concept of an "active shooter" because the people doing the killing have very specific people they mean to kill, and they do so, and then leave. What major factors do you think are the reason for far fewer school shootings in Mexico vs the US? I can't think of anything that even comes close to less gun ownership/much stricter gun control laws. Kalit fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 03:10
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Kalit posted:What major factors do you think are the reason for far fewer school shootings in Mexico vs the US? I can't think of anything that even comes close to less gun ownership/much stricter gun control laws. Not OP but, culture is #1 for me. And I know that gun ownership and controls laws fall under culture but I guess I mean, all the cultural aspects apart from that. So like, once you have someone with access to a gun and a school already; just factoring that out of the equation as much as reasonably possible. I know it's super vague and easy to sit here and go "the US has lots of school shootings because of its culture... which includes lots of school shootings". But it really does seem to me that there is something embedded in the psyche of particularly American bad actors which hinges on doing it Big and taking down the whole drat System with them in a blaze of glory.
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Apr 10, 2023 03:37
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Pvt. Parts posted:Not OP but, culture is #1 for me. And I know that gun ownership and controls laws fall under culture but I guess I mean, all the cultural aspects apart from that. So like, once you have someone with access to a gun and a school already; just factoring that out of the equation as much as reasonably possible. I know it's super vague and easy to sit here and go "the US has lots of school shootings because of its culture... which includes lots of school shootings". But it really does seem to me that there is something embedded in the psyche of particularly American bad actors which hinges on doing it Big and taking down the whole drat System with them in a blaze of glory. How does this manifest itself in non-gun related ways? How is this unique to the US and not prevalent in any other country? FYI, I'm stating any other country since my post was about school shootings, which is very unique to the US. Along with its permissive gun control laws.
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Apr 10, 2023 03:49
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Kalit posted:How does this manifest itself in non-gun related ways? How is this unique to the US and not prevalent in any other country? So I'll continue to muse since you've prompted me. I'm just a Canadian looking on from the sidelines who probably doesn't know what he is talking about, but musing is fun. When it comes to doing it Big, America doesn't really need an introduction I hope. The thing with people is that, if given the space (freedom) and means (wealth) to do something they wish to do, they'll do it to the extreme. Culturally I think America places a huge emphasis on both (freedom and wealth) and so you'll find all the beautiful craziness the nation is full of. Now of course not all people are full of love and appreciation for the world around them (rightly or wrongly), and so you find ugly destructive craziness floating around; this is true of any population not just the US. But you mix that angry destructive energy with the unique American cultural concoction promoting personal expressiveness, and you suddenly have a very motivated mass murderer on your hands. As for taking down the whole System: America is incredibly individualistic, even compared to most other Western nations. What this means I think is that, if someone feels wronged or trodden upon in life, they are more likely to look to and blame a system which has shorthanded them, rather than to their own shortcomings or so on.
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Apr 10, 2023 04:34
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna78933 Active shooter about 45 minutes ago, entire block cordoned off in downtown louisville
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Apr 10, 2023 15:32
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Staluigi posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna78933 "The gunman is believed to be an employee and may have had mental health issues, according to a federal law enforcement source who has been briefed on the attack." Gee that's a surprise. Looks like he was a former employee as well so my gut feeling is disgruntled/begrudged former employee.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:06
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Elendil004 posted:"The gunman is believed to be an employee and may have had mental health issues, according to a federal law enforcement source who has been briefed on the attack." Gee that's a surprise. Worth asking if we are going to fortify every business in the country and monitor the social media of all employees for signs of mental breakdowns.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:33
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Name Change posted:Worth asking if we are going to fortify every business in the country and monitor the social media of all employees for signs of mental breakdowns. I mean, make it the responsibility of the social media companies versus government taking some responsibility, which is more likely to happen?
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Apr 10, 2023 20:39
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Name Change posted:Worth asking if we are going to fortify every business in the country and monitor the social media of all employees for signs of mental breakdowns. Ironically we should do this but because people showing signs of mental breakdowns should be helped. Of course if we implemented this kind of thing today it would be completely half-assed, only monitor black people, and rely on twitter. I mean you posted as a joke but, wouldn't a competent, modern society be one where someone exhibiting signs of mental distress had access to a wide, deep, safety net?
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Apr 10, 2023 20:40
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The correct terminology is "freedom event." If the "freedom event coordinator" kills the whole classroom (and I mean every one of them!) it upgrades to a "freedom explosion."
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Apr 10, 2023 21:30
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Elendil004 posted:Ironically we should do this but because people showing signs of mental breakdowns should be helped. Of course if we implemented this kind of thing today it would be completely half-assed, only monitor black people, and rely on twitter. It's a good joke that we are attempting to implement on schoolchildren instead of having the difficult conversation, so why not go whole hog and spend tens of billions on security theater for every man, woman, and child in the country? Build multiple bulletproof igloos in every public building in the country. You can set up an igloo or smokebomb factory in depressed areas. Meanwhile we know how competent and secure social media companies are, what could even more zero accountability surveillance systems hurt? Cops are already using faulty facial recognition to arrest people without any other evidence, and billionaires are using the same technology to harass political enemies. Unprecedented efficiency awaits.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:04
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Name Change posted:Meanwhile we know how competent and secure social media companies are, what could even more zero accountability surveillance systems hurt? Cops are already using faulty facial recognition to arrest people without any other evidence, and billionaires are using the same technology to harass political enemies. Unprecedented efficiency awaits. I said a competent, modern society.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:07
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PT6A posted:I guess my question would be: if you take gun control out of the debate, why does the US still have an exceptionally high amount of spree violence compared to other countries, with or without guns? Other countries with lots of (legal or illegal) guns: not so many school shootings. Nor bombings or mass stabbings or really any of that poo poo. To me, it suggests that despite the fact gun control is a huge issue, it is by far not the only issue, and I don't think it's ridiculous to discuss how the US can deal with that given a complete and utter lack of will to implement meaningful gun control. Life in the US loving sucks for a lot of people. Everything is getting more expensive and wages aren't rising enough to make up for it. Our healthcare system is beyond immoral. We cage more people than the next 20 countries (idk the actual number but whatever) combined and instead of focusing on rehabilitation, we set these people up to most likely get recaged again. Our politicians spend way too much money on the loving cops and military and not enough money on helping the people. A little less than half of the electorate is becoming more and more unhinged thanks to Fox News and all these other right wing psychos who are convincing them that the biggest threat to their well being is trans people and other marginalized groups. Our education system is a joke. And to top it all off, guns are relatively cheap and all over the place, with gun laws becoming looser and looser all the time. America just loving sucks rear end if you aren't at least middle class/upper middle class. There is no hope for so many people. Switzerland has a huge amount of guns relative to almost all the countries in close proximity to it, yet they don't have the gun violence problems we do because everything else about Switzerland is far better than the US. Material conditions are the key.
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Apr 10, 2023 23:51
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Queering Wheel posted:Switzerland has a huge amount of guns relative to almost all the countries in close proximity to it, yet they don't have the gun violence problems we do because everything else about Switzerland is far better than the US. Material conditions are the key. Eh…their gun laws (along with practices and views of gun ownership) are still much different than ours. I don’t think you can brush off differences in gun violence as primarily because of material conditions. Especially since this thread is about active shooter/hostile events. The Daily Show clips that showcased the differences is fairly informative. Or there’s a bunch of articles you can find on Google that were written every time a high profile shooting occurs
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Apr 11, 2023 00:06
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Switzerland has may-issue gun permits where the police have a great deal of discretion to deny someone based on a history of threats, mental health history, and even simply their reputation with their neighbors. Guns are also tracked and licensed on a per-gun basis, have to be stored securely and unloaded, and mostly aren't stored at home. Most of these laws are, in fact, fairly new, after Switzerland's rate of gun crime went up during the 90s. (Some later ones are normalization with the EU, as well.) Also, Switzerland has five neighbors and two of them (Austria and Liechtenstein) have more civilian guns per capita. The top ten high income countries in terms of per capita civilian (non-military, non-police) gun ownership are, in descending order, the USA, Canada and Uruguay (basically tied), Cyprus, Finland, Iceland, Austria, Liechtenstein and Norway (another tie), and Malta. Switzerland is 11th. (The survey was compiled 2017.) This doesn't tell the whole story, though: the USA has about 1.21 guns per capita, while the next ten countries range from 0.28 to 0.35. All of these countries have gun laws that would be considered harshly restrictive in the US, even in the countries with relatively liberal gun laws like Canada and Austria. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 00:50
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Queering Wheel posted:Life in the US loving sucks for a lot of people. Everything is getting more expensive and wages aren't rising enough to make up for it. Our healthcare system is beyond immoral. We cage more people than the next 20 countries (idk the actual number but whatever) combined and instead of focusing on rehabilitation, we set these people up to most likely get recaged again. Our politicians spend way too much money on the loving cops and military and not enough money on helping the people. A little less than half of the electorate is becoming more and more unhinged thanks to Fox News and all these other right wing psychos who are convincing them that the biggest threat to their well being is trans people and other marginalized groups. Our education system is a joke. And to top it all off, guns are relatively cheap and all over the place, with gun laws becoming looser and looser all the time. America just loving sucks rear end if you aren't at least middle class/upper middle class. There is no hope for so many people. See, this is where I have to call a little bit of bullshit. I don't think that material conditions are better in Mexico, or a lot of these places with horrific crime rates and tons of guns. And you have a lot of murders as a result, no question. But while the cartels can essentially have a full-out battle with the federales, as happened in Culiacan not once but twice, they're not just shooting people for shits and giggles. What is special about America that makes people say, not: "I'm gonna kill that motherfucker because I hate him," or "I'm gonna commit a crime with a gun to make a lot of money [although that definitely happens in the US too]," but rather, "today, I shall shoot up a workplace/mall/school/etc. and just kill a bunch of people."? That's very abnormal, even by the standards of places with a high rate of gun homicides and poo poo quality of life.
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Apr 11, 2023 02:18
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Kalit posted:How does this manifest itself in non-gun related ways? How is this unique to the US and not prevalent in any other country? Malaysia has the phenomenon of amuk, from which the phrase ‘running amok’ comes. It is just accepted that a couple of times a year some depressed young male will grab a machete and start hacking on their neighbours. Culturally, using. a gun wouldn’t generally be part of the recipe, and in any case Malaysia has pretty strict gun control laws by US standards.
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Apr 11, 2023 09:58
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Elendil004 posted:Let's talk about lockdown drills. Likely, they're here to stay. Much like the massive fires of the early 1900's drove fire safety, active shooters have driven the need for lockdown drills. Since it's nearly impossible to walk back safety even if the number of active shooter / hostile events dropped sharply, we're always going to have lockdown drills. So what can we do to make them less traumatic. After all, fire drills are rarely traumatic, and historically school fires have killed sometimes hundreds of students, so they're dangerous and we take them seriously but they don't have students texting their parents about giving their playstation to their friends. This is an incredibly good post about the kind of evidence-based implementation that should be guiding school responses to the risk of a mass shooting. There are guidelines published on every subject imaginable, and lockdown drills/mass shooter events are no different. While there are members of district/admin staff (principals, school board sometimes, others, etc.) who just do not get it and have no interest in learning beyond their preconceived notion of what is/is not effective, many are super open to discussion and change if it's presented competently. But that's damning with faint praise- many educators are resistant to changing their instructional and classroom management practices even when presented with piles of evidence that, for example, some students with attention-seeking behavior are reinforced by negative attention, meaning a loud, public dressing-down for swearing in class will cause them to swear more in the future. Via research, we've essentially known for the last three decades what teaching practices are most effective on a classroom level for things like math, P.E., health, literacy, etc. My field, behaviorism and special education, is similarly mapped out. I say this because it's important to realize that quality education is evidence-based, i.e., fifty valid, controlled studies have analyzed the implementation of number blocks for progressing 1st-grade students toward 1-1 parity between objects and symbolic representations of numbers, and found that kids need something concrete to touch and move before they can known that the character "1" means "1 thing."
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Apr 15, 2023 22:06
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This came up in another thread and I'm curious if anyone has seen any or knows of any studies or research on brain injuries/concussions/tbi/etc. I recall hearing that the Texas clocktower guy had a tumor or something and I've seen news about the latest shooter having youth sports injuries. Something we've asked in this very thread is what tips someone over the edge and maybe having a hosed up brain from sports or anything else might be one of the things.
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Apr 15, 2023 22:45
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Elendil004 posted:This came up in another thread and I'm curious if anyone has seen any or knows of any studies or research on brain injuries/concussions/tbi/etc. I recall hearing that the Texas clocktower guy had a tumor or something and I've seen news about the latest shooter having youth sports injuries. Something we've asked in this very thread is what tips someone over the edge and maybe having a hosed up brain from sports or anything else might be one of the things. If they have a tbi or medical issue that affects their behavior enough that it's a clear issue, I think the goal is that it's quickly recognized by school staff so that they can be screened for special ed funding and eligibility. Special education is sometimes a self-contained classroom for kids with severe or multiple disabilities, but it's more frequently access to services like behavior intervention, counseling, specially designed instruction, etc., that kids go to at specific times throughout the week and after return to their "homeroom" space. Like most students are not being taught in one room full of other kids with disabilities for 7 hours each day at school unless they have such high support needs that this place would be the best environment for them to work toward their functional and academic skill goals. Generally, they might just get some support in difficult classes like math or literacy in their homeroom. They could also spend their math time in a different setting (a small group instruction room or something) working with kids at a similar ability level with more attention from teachers trained to teach kids in that population. The concept in special education is called "least restrictive environment," which basically means students must always be "placed" as much as possible in their normal classroom. We start there and only adjust placement if the kid is totally unable to access services in that environment, in which case we figure out which specific instruction they can't access there and move them somewhere for as little time as possible during the week and ONLY for those specific services
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Apr 16, 2023 12:47
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Name Change posted:There's nothing fundamentally different about the American psyche, it's just that when you lose your loving mind, you can just go get a gun and massacre people, because even modest gun control measures to prevent just this scenario has adamant, extremist, and well-funded opposition arrayed against it. But we have our best chance in years to do something coming up, given that the NRA is imploding under its own corruption and abortion bans are rendering the fascists unable to win elections for dog catcher across America. In a society explicitly designed to reinforce economic disparities and force as many people as possible into desperate straits to lower wages for employers, you're going to see people lose their poo poo more often as well, and by design (thanks again Reagan!) we lack the healthcare infrastructure to deal with it. Mental health care is difficult to access and expensive even for someone with good insurance, a steady job, and solid income. Almost no one wakes up one day and decides to go on a spree killing out of the blue. Among the outliers who eventually do, we fail at every turn to heed the warning signs that someone is not well because there's little to be done about it. Even the systems we have in place often fail because those responsible for administering them don't do their job, like not reporting domestic violence convictions to the federal government to make someone a prohibited possessor; or can't effectively do it, like ignoring a pattern of escalating violent incidents from a student because the responsible people in the school system have nothing they can do but talk to parents who can't or won't act. Basically this: Queering Wheel posted:Life in the US loving sucks for a lot of people. Everything is getting more expensive and wages aren't rising enough to make up for it. Our healthcare system is beyond immoral. We cage more people than the next 20 countries (idk the actual number but whatever) combined and instead of focusing on rehabilitation, we set these people up to most likely get recaged again. Our politicians spend way too much money on the loving cops and military and not enough money on helping the people. A little less than half of the electorate is becoming more and more unhinged thanks to Fox News and all these other right wing psychos who are convincing them that the biggest threat to their well being is trans people and other marginalized groups. Our education system is a joke. And to top it all off, guns are relatively cheap and all over the place, with gun laws becoming looser and looser all the time. America just loving sucks rear end if you aren't at least middle class/upper middle class. There is no hope for so many people. The US is rapidly becoming a shithole for much of the population in order to further increase the wealth of a select few, and it's creating the conditions for people to choose violence because to their minds nothing else will make a point. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 18, 2023 04:43
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Liquid Communism posted:In a society explicitly designed to reinforce economic disparities and force as many people as possible into desperate straits to lower wages for employers, you're going to see people lose their poo poo more often as well, and by design (thanks again Reagan!) we lack the healthcare infrastructure to deal with it. Mental health care is difficult to access and expensive even for someone with good insurance, a steady job, and solid income. I'm just not satisfied with this explanation, because if you look at places that the US does not regard as "peer nations," this sort of random, wanton violence doesn't really exist, and if it does exist to some degree, it doesn't scale with how poo poo the conditions are. There are massive slums in major cities around the world that would aspire to be as lovely as the worst housing project in the USA, and they don't have people wiping out a classroom or movie theatre for shits and giggles. There are people who've known nothing but makeshift accommodation in a refugee camp their whole lives, and they manage to avoid shooting up a walmart because they had a bad day. We've already had this discussion somewhat, but let's walk the same ground again: there's a huge difference between someone saying "my life is poo poo, I'm poor as gently caress, I'm going to rob a bank or hold a rich person at gunpoint for money" and "my life is poo poo, it's time to massacre a school." I can't say either of them are great life choices, but I sure as gently caress understand the first guy's point a lot more than I understand the second's. I think it's reflected in who is actually doing these mass killings -- it's not the desperate. Perhaps we like to think it is, because it makes it more comfortable to have a reason why this poo poo happens. But in practice, desperate people are going to do crime that makes money, and if they commit violence, the violence is a means rather an end, and some sad sack middle-class white motherfucker is gonna wipe out a school or a mall because they experienced a minor setback in a charmed life. PT6A fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 18, 2023 05:25
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Liquid Communism posted:In a society explicitly designed to reinforce economic disparities and force as many people as possible into desperate straits to lower wages for employers, you're going to see people lose their poo poo more often as well, and by design (thanks again Reagan!) we lack the healthcare infrastructure to deal with it. Mental health care is difficult to access and expensive even for someone with good insurance, a steady job, and solid income. mental illness and terrible mental healthcare and inequality and racism exist in many countries and they don't have mass shootings. they don't even have mass attacks to the same degree.
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Apr 18, 2023 07:21
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The amount of Fox News/NRA/right wing parroting ITT but with a leftist twist (e.g. the primary reason this occurs is that we don't have healthcare for all!) is depressing. Easy/instant access to guns is the primary issue and why our country is ridiculously high when it comes to gun violence. If you think any other factor is the primary issue, look at the entire world and ask “does any other country have this in common”. Since I love to look at stats/research/sources, here are some starting points. For a previous claim of culture vs gun laws, this looks at both specifically: https://safetennesseeproject.org/wp...ve-analysis.pdf Here's another one that is about gun laws/mass shootings:https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542 And for a reminder about what had the biggest impact in Australia (no, the US is not somehow uniquely different): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704353/?_escaped_fragment_=po=39.2857 Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 18, 2023 13:01
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Thread has been going for a couple pages, so on the off chance anyone forgot the thread rule, I’m going to reiterate it: Google Jeb Bush posted:I think this is probably wise, actually. For the moment let's go with:
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Apr 18, 2023 14:19
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