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Tengoku Daimakyou (a.k.a. Heavenly Delusion) is a manga by Masakazu Ishiguro, previously best known for Soredemo Machi wa Mawatteiru (SoreMachi: And Yet the Town Moves). The anime adaptation is handled by Production IG, with series composition by Makoto Fukami (Psycho-Pass, Gakkougurashi) and directed by Hirotaka Mori (episode director on shows like One Piece and Haikyuu, though this seems to be his first credit as series director). The main voice cast includes Sayaka Senbongi as Kiruko (Shuna in That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime, Haru in Beastars, the alcoholic bassist in Bocchi), Gen Satou as Maru (Kou in Yofukashi no Uta, Rokudou in Rokudou no Onna-tachi), and Hibiku Yamamura as Tokio (Noriko in Kiznaiver, Nanami in Paripi Koumei). The show is licensed by Disney, and streaming on Disney+. To quote myself from the season thread: cave emperor posted:Episode one of Tengoku Daimakyou (Heavenly Delusion) is out, and first impressions are good. Please clearly mark manga spoilers!
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Apr 9, 2023 09:18
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Ep 2 I can't tell if Kiruko is going to go down a trans man story or a body swap story tbh
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Apr 9, 2023 11:17
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it's very complicated.
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Apr 9, 2023 11:57
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Ibblebibble posted:Ep 2 I can't tell if Kiruko is going to go down a trans man story or a body swap story tbh I'm a relatively old trans woman and got caught so off guard by that bit of dialogue that it almost made me cry. That situation is so familiar to me, I'm going to be so loving embarrassed about how much it hit me if it ends up being written as a body swap thing.
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Apr 9, 2023 12:18
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Detective posted:I'm a relatively old trans woman and got caught so off guard by that bit of dialogue that it almost made me cry. That situation is so familiar to me, I'm going to be so loving embarrassed about how much it hit me if it ends up being written as a body swap thing.
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Apr 9, 2023 16:38
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when the anime gets there that discussion will permanently take over the thread. that's not a bad thing, as it is probably the most interesting plot thread.
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Apr 9, 2023 17:29
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Ibblebibble posted:Ep 2 I can't tell if Kiruko is going to go down a trans man story or a body swap story tbh spoiler out of respect for previous spoiler tags but it's just my opinion on episode 2 stuff: i would guess it ends up being a body swap dilemma but with plenty of room for a trans reading. only basing this off of how explicitly trans kiriku's confession sounded to me vs the paratextual evidence of a bunch of manga reading posters saying 'gonna be interesting to see what the anime does with that plot'
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Apr 9, 2023 18:36
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Have only watched Ep 1 and 2, no manga : Between Kiruko's clothing, the intergender school uniforms, androgynous teenage kissers, and both characters choosing to reject the safety and normality of joining 'one big family that gets high every night', I was already reading this as a very queer show, before Kiruko even mentioned anything about their gender..
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Apr 9, 2023 19:52
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Endorph posted:manga spoilers: its somewhat a bodyswap thing but its using the bodyswap thing as a metaphor for Gender, its clearly not unintentional Thanks for the extra context, nice to know that it's definitely coming at this from a more thoughtful angle, even if I'm still a little tired of the bodyswap thing. Without having read the manga, it's hard to see the 2nd episode and not think "oh wow how queer is this going to get?" For now I'll probably just stick with the show and see whether it goes anywhere with that, but I totally wasn't expecting to be as interested as I am.
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Apr 10, 2023 03:25
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I started reading the manga and it's good and queer. The art is very nice too, with kind of retro character designs and extremely clean and controlled backgrounds and panel layouts. Just overall really captivating and great so far. shame about the anime being in disney+ jail
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Apr 10, 2023 16:30
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It's not in jail though? Disney+ are releasing it in the same way Crunchyroll or HiDive would have? It's not like Netflix dropping all the episodes at once at a later date.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:08
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It’s on Hulu too, that’s where I’m watching it.
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Apr 10, 2023 18:34
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i think Cephas may not be in the US, I read somewhere that it's on Hulu in the US and Disney+ everywhere else which may be what they mean; it may only be available on Disney+ where they are edit: i just watched the first 2 eps and am totally hooked, time to binge the manga
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Apr 10, 2023 19:02
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This is the most promising anime I've seen in several seasons, I'm hooked already. I'm not (EP2) arguing against other intepretations or manga readers, and I'm not saying it can't work with it as such, but I had some trouble accepting it's a trans allegory? when he was leering at his own body in the first episode if I remember correctly. Though the scene *itself* works strongly in opposition of my initial take.
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Apr 10, 2023 21:20
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I am just cheap, and any anime that I can't watch on my friend's Crunchyroll account is in jail to me 
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Apr 11, 2023 03:08
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I'm reading the manga for this right now, and it's good about casually dropping reveals. I just hit a part in chapter 49 where something is suddenly indirectly revealed and oh jeez 
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Apr 11, 2023 07:56
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i am getting wildly annoying sub desync when i try to watch this on hulu. tried chrome, firefox, and safari on a pc and a mac and all are busted. so i went to  and their video player works, weird!anyway - this seems great so far, kind of unsettling. hope the mystery unravels satisfyingly.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:40
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Southern Cassowary posted:i am getting wildly annoying sub desync when i try to watch this on hulu. tried chrome, firefox, and safari on a pc and a mac and all are busted. so i went to i think the mature content warning that plays at the start offsets the subs by the length of the warning (theory untested). normally if i refresh it a few times it goes away but it still sucks
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Apr 11, 2023 18:46
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Big Leg posted:i think the mature content warning that plays at the start offsets the subs by the length of the warning (theory untested). normally if i refresh it a few times it goes away but it still sucks i'm getting desyncing if i pause, i think, and it feels like it desyncs by one line. i dug up a reddit thread where people claimed they had solutions and i tried a few and none really worked, including refreshing, and people seem to have different theories as to what's causing the desyncs, so i think it's some kind of deep issue with how they're implementing subs. pretty much at the point where i can either try to debug hulu or i can just use the pirate poo poo that works well without effort
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Apr 11, 2023 18:58
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yeah i'll probably be joining you shortly. even when they work for me sometimes lines are missing and they always look like poo poo
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Apr 11, 2023 19:03
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watched ep 3. the flashback to the details behind the body swap was enlightening. i'm still not sure if this is being written as an overt trans allegory, a body swap, or something in-between, and i also think the actual answer to that question requires more context and depends on the viewer's thoughts on gender and authorial intent. i could go either way - kiruko being attracted to his new body points to body swap while writing like maru asking for pronouns makes me think it's more of an allegory, so right now i'm inclined to think it's just sci-fi writing that evokes the modern world and i'll keep watching for more context and and to see how it's handled. in general, i think this is great so far - it's well-written and i'm invested in the mystery of what's going on in the world, and they drip-feed information about it incredibly well.
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Apr 16, 2023 00:07
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Southern Cassowary posted:watched ep 3. I think that Maru asking for pronouns is just him reasonably not being sure how Kiruko wants to be addressed given the circumstances. It's just a normal reaction to have. Regarding the body swap in general, I read it as something sort of inbetween "just a body swap" and a trans allegory. I don't think Kiruko is supposed to have been trans all along - nothing we hear from their life before the body swap seems to indicate this is the case. But I do think that there is an element of "the more time they spend in their sister's body, the more they start to feel comfortable in it."
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Apr 16, 2023 00:21
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Ytlaya posted:I think that Maru asking for pronouns is just him reasonably not being sure how Kiruko wants to be addressed given the circumstances. It's just a normal reaction to have. it's an absolutely reasonable and normal response to have but it also sticks out because pronouns are a point of discussion for people - it's good writing either way, but i think it is evocative and allegorical. i don't think there's a reason to think kiruko was trans in his original body currently, but his feelings about the swap might evoke the experience of being trans. ultimately, i think we're 3 eps in and i have these opinions pretty weakly because i lack a lot of context. this show's well-written enough thus far that i'm interested to see more.
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Apr 16, 2023 00:30
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Southern Cassowary posted:in general, i think this is great so far - it's well-written and i'm invested in the mystery of what's going on in the world, and they drip-feed information about it incredibly well. yeah this is definitely my favorite show of the season, for reasons you stated + it's funny and absolutely gorgeous. it does have 3x the episodes of some of the other good shows so maybe they'll fight back at some point. i'm glad the ed reminded me of the kid drawing a fish with arms in the first episode or i would have been too stupid to remember it.
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Apr 16, 2023 00:44
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Big Leg posted:i'm glad the ed reminded me of the kid drawing a fish with arms in the first episode or i would have been too stupid to remember it. i was absolutely too stupid to remember that
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Apr 16, 2023 00:53
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full opening and ending every episode watchers stay winning
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Apr 16, 2023 00:55
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Yeah I wonder what's up with the kid's drawings and the man-eaters. Maybe the higher-ups of the facility are making them and using his drawings as a base? And what's up with the faceless babies anyway?
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Apr 16, 2023 02:21
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Wait poo poo, someone on reddit pointed this out, but the dates between the outside and Heaven don't match.   Looks like the Heaven part of the story precedes the Great Collapse. Something's fucky.
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Apr 16, 2023 02:27
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Oh that's a nice catch.
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Apr 16, 2023 02:36
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...well that's an interesting wrinkle.
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Apr 16, 2023 02:46
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Ibblebibble posted:Wait poo poo, someone on reddit pointed this out, but I've been thinking about this too. One thing to note though is that (pure speculation, no manga spoilers) Japanese commonly write dates as year/month/day, which would mean that the Heaven part takes place in June of the year 17. In fact, the "t" in front of 17 could be an indication of the era name, similar to say Showa or Heisei, in which case the Heaven part takes place in year 17 of the "t" era. The other part takes place 15 years after the great collapse, so assuming that the "t" era started with the collapse, the Heaven part might actually take place two years later than the other part. EDIT: In fact, if we assume that the collapse happened in September 2024, and mark 2024 as "t1", then "t17" would be 2040. The Maru part seems to take place in summer (possibly June), and summer 2040 can be considered five years after the September 2034 to early 2035 stretch covered by the flashback, so the two parts could still be taking place at (roughly) the same time. cave emperor fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 08:28
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Episode 3. First time anime watched, I had the manga pending on my queue to read some day, but the anime came before that day arrived I know some people will say 'it's science fiction, doh', but somehow, a freaking brain transplant seems to me more unbelievable than a post apocalyptic future where weird monsters roam around. Dunno, it makes me think of the Simpsons Halloween special episodes more than the serious mystery scifi story we had until now. So I have to wonder if the nurse was right, and really, its all… a delusion, and the title of the anime is pointing in part to that. Hell, the first encounter with a maneater that we had, on the previous episode, was also about someone that deluded herself into believing a maneater was his lost son, so you gotta wonder if the author was building a theme with that scene. Not only that, but the circumstances around are a bit suspicious to me (literally all that had a relation with her/him went missing, Robin, the doctor, and the other kids, so call me paranoiac, but I wonder if what we have been told is what really happened, or we have been fed a twisted version of reality). The doubt I have is that I don't know if the author intends for the brain transplant to be real and it's the story's style to not dig into the details, or it's the opposite and the details are a clue indicating the brain transplant never happened (like, the doctor didn't even had a state of the art high tech hospital facilities where I could believe with future tech they are posible, he did it was it seemed a rundown average hospital). The other alternative is that the brain transplant is real, but it was done with monster-based 'psychic' tech. In that case, the previous story could have been a clue in that the monsters really when devour people, they can absorb the victim's mind/soul, and the doctor used something like that to transfer the minds. Apart from that, well, a lot of mysteries are open. What was the calamity? What’s the origin of maneaters? What was up with the secret lab with kids, and what relation if any, had with the calamity? Do the children have powers? At first I thought the lab was some kind of high tech refugee done to protect a few from the 'calamity', but when the girl showed the drawings of the monsters, and the monsters are THAT weird (a fish with human hands?), as if they came from a child imagination. So maybe it's the other way around? Did they trigger the calamity? Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 20:58
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I think there's two ways the drawings can be connected, either the child is conjuring the monsters somehow, or they are simply having visions of them and drawing down what they see. I think the latter is more likely at this point but it's pretty clear that all of the kids in heaven have some sort of abilities that aren't explained. Show continues to be very interesting. I'm hooked. It reminds me of Made in Abyss but with age appropriate characters.
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Apr 16, 2023 22:42
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now is as good of time as any to remind your local congress people how important it is to legalize marijuana to combat giant fish monsters with human hands
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Apr 22, 2023 20:17
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the dehumidifying properties of drug smuggling
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Apr 23, 2023 04:07
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The kids in Heaven, one can crawl up walls and one doesn't show up on cameras. The Maneaters on the outside, one can crawl up walls and one doesn't show up on cameras... Coincidence? Maybe.
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Apr 23, 2023 05:32
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Ibblebibble posted:The kids in Heaven, one can crawl up walls and one doesn't show up on cameras. The Maneaters on the outside, one can crawl up walls and one doesn't show up on cameras... Coincidence? Maybe. The security camera footage when Tokio was climbing the wall didn't show the robot either, and it showed the grate as closed. So it probably isn't Tokio, I think someone or something was covering for them. Also, returning to the subject of dates, in episode 4 the cameras are showing the date as t17/07/01, so that at least confirms that it's YY/MM/DD.
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Apr 23, 2023 08:08
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I thought it was strongly implied the base AI was concealing them judging from the "answer with a question to avoid explicitly lying" answer it gave when interrogated.
Sindai fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 15:15
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Yeah I feel like the base AI is definitely the one hiding them on the cameras and distracting the teachers with the intruder alarm in that case.
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Apr 23, 2023 15:42
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The babies were creepy, but the freakin AI is somehow even creepier So it was covering for the kids, both when entering the vent and helping them escape later. Not only that, but it sent the photo in the shower to the guy, and then deleted it later. It seems it's readying the children to 'wake up' their instincts.
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Apr 23, 2023 16:24
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