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i had a copy of rio by duran duran that sat around in a hot car for too long and the tape got warped and it really improved the album. "the chauffeur" especially is great with just a little extra warble.
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Apr 13, 2023 18:06
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Mister Speaker posted:Basically, go ahead and enjoy listening to your vinyl, or even the noisy-rear end cassette tape that your garage band recorded to on a TASCAM four-track (honestly, these things are dope). But don't try to spin it like you're listening to a better-quality medium. You like it because of its distortion. To be reductive, you like it because it sounds bad. that's not just reductive, it's wrong. first of all, when it comes to aesthetics in music, "bad" and "good" are highly subjective terms, not technical terms. but also even if you say that music can be measured against to various culturally defined standards of quality that can be used in an attempt to establish some degree of objectivity, the fact remains that distortion in and of itself has been considered a good and valuable sound, tool, texture etc. by a pretty wide range of professional musicians, composers, and producers for several decades at this point. but also you're missing what people like about it. if it truly "sounded bad" to people, they wouldn't spend much time listening to it. and yes part of the appeal is that it sounds like an earlier period of time (which isn't the same thing as sounding bad). but also part of it is simply the fuzziness of the sound itself. there are all kinds of artists that use tape and simulations of tape in various ways within the recording process to enhance and exaggerate what were once perceived as "flaws" of the medium. sometimes something that originally was a flaw can turn around and become something good. there's a legend that blue cheese was invented when a shepherd left a hunk of cheese in a cave and came back to find it moldy. he was so hungry he ate it anyway and it turned out to be delicious, and now people love it all over the world. even if physical tape ends up going away eventually, artists will be using various tools to simulate the sound of tape (and vinyl) distortion and saturation for decades or maybe even centuries to come, because to them it sounds good. even Eno's quote is, to me, a bit short sighted. yes, distortion was once the sound of something being too loud for the medium meant to carry it. but it's become such a common part of so many genres of music that it's now, in many contexts, a comforting sound. not a sound of excitement or of failure, but of warmth or memory. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Apr 28, 2023 |
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Apr 28, 2023 03:30
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syntaxfunction posted:Taste is subjective yeah, but it's also equally dumb to tell people that they can't say the "flaws" make it bad but the "flaws" actually make it better. if people enjoy the sound of the "flaws" then they are no longer really flaws if an artist is using distortion for effect and their audience enjoys the sound/aesthetics of that distortion, then it's not really a "flaw". especially all kinds of distortion is commonly used on purpose these days (and has been since the 60's) Earwicker fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Apr 28, 2023 |
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Apr 28, 2023 18:08
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Mister Speaker posted:It's not wrong to say "you like it because it sounds bad." Like I said, it's reductive of the qualities that make a recording to tape what it is, but it's entirely correct that what you actually find pleasing about the sound of vinyl or tape is its distortion. You don't have pops and clicks and tape hiss when you listen to a band play live. that depends on the genre and simulation. for example the mellotron is a highly valued instrument in many musical circles specifically because of it's distinct tape-based sound and the elements of distortion and warble that are often part of it. obviously a lot of people use software emulators instead of actual mellotrons but that's usually because the real ones are expensive and hard to get hold of these days and annoying to maintain. but bands that can get them, absolutely use them and many of the characteristics of the mellotron that were originally considered flaws are now what makes it valuable and sound distinct from the much more advanced and accurate samplers that have been invented since the mid 20th century. i dont think most people who use the mellotron or enjoy it's sound would call it "bad".
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Apr 28, 2023 21:42
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syntaxfunction posted:Yeah see again, you're discounting people who don't like it and do see it as flaws. i'm not discounting them at all. the claim that i'm challenging is that people who enjoy tape and other forms of distortion "like it because it's bad". the people who don't like that sound, obviously, think it's bad, but that's not what i'm addressing. i'm talking about people who intentionally seek out distortion to listen to or to use themselves because they enjoy the sound of it. not all of those people are doing so because they think the sound is "bad". in most cases they find the sound, in various contexts, pleasurable, or good. Mister Speaker posted:But conflating your preference with 'fidelity' is objectively wrong. i agree with this, but i do not equate "fidelity" with "good". to me fidelity is more comparable to accuracy. a low fidelity recording is less faithful to the original sound of what was recorded. that is not at all the same thing as "bad". a high fidelity sampler sounds more similar to the instrument that it is sampling. since it's 2023 i, a broke rear end nobody, have direct access to affordable software samplers that sound way more like an actual string section than the string section tape reels used in a mellotron. but that doesn't necessarily mean they sound better. that question depends on the specific nature of the piece in which it is being used, the atmosphere i intent to convey, etc. and in many cases the low fidelity sound is what's better for that occasion. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Apr 29, 2023 |
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Apr 29, 2023 03:19
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Mister Speaker posted:Yes, it is exactly the same thing. lol sorry, but it's not. if i'm composing a piece in which lo-fi sounds are more appropriate for the tone or atmosphere, then using hi-fidelity recordings or samples without any warble or distortion or whatever are going to sound worse then hi-fidelity ones. fidelity does not mean "good" because the goal of recording sound onto a medium is no longer about replication of the exact sound that was recorded. perhaps when recording technology was first invented that was the only goal, but in today's current reality that no longer makes sense. today, many older means of recording technology - and the distinct sounds of those means that were once considered flaws or imperfections - are now instruments in and of themselves. whether a piece of music sounds "bad" or "good" depends on the subjective interpretation of the audience. but it also depends on the context of the music, the genre, the mood, what the composer is trying to do, etc. and in today's current reality with today's current audience there are many circumstances in which equating sonic fidelity with "goodness" or sonic quality in general is absolute nonsense. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Apr 29, 2023 |
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Apr 29, 2023 13:44
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generally when fruit spoils, we say it's "gone bad". most people avoid eating rotten fruit. the basic process of spoiling means the growth of mold and bacteria and this results in the fermentation of sugars into alcohol. over the course of history we have learned to control these processes and use them on purpose to create a wide range of new foods, drinks, and important methods of preservation and even live saving medecins. if you feel like eating some grapes, and you see some rotten grapes on the ground, yeah you'll be disappointed. and those grapes will probably taste bad. but that doesn't meant the process of spoilage is "bad" in and of itself, because it's clearly resulted in so many things that are widely considered good. from wine to penecillin. innovations in the arts work much the same way. the inventors of the mellotron were probably not going for a warbly, scratchy sound. but in terms of the overall flow of art, the inventors of the mellotron are far less important than the users of the mellotron, and all of the pieces of music that have been made with them - many of which use it specifically because of the warbly scratchy sound. because of the lesser fidelity. characteristics like "warbly" are constant and fairly objective, but conditions like "bad" and "good" are subjective judgements. they shift with context or even emotional states. to one person in one context something warbly may sound bad, and to another it may sound good. same with distortion and all kinds of other aspects of sound that are frequently used in ways that may contrast with the intent of their origins, and now things like distortion that were once just a sign of a bad signal or overwhelmed speakers are controlled and created and enhanced intentionally. just like the process of rot is controlled by winemakers. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Apr 29, 2023 |
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Apr 29, 2023 14:34
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if you think i'm some sort of analog crusader you've got me entirely wrong. i use digital tools and recording methods to make music every day as part of my job and in my personal work as well. a lot of my music is 100% digital. what i'm talking about in terms of "bad" or "good" is not quality, it's aesthetics. i think that's where we may be misunderstanding each other. i'm simply saying that sounds that were once created unintentionally as flaws are now considered desirable, and aesthetically good. i'm a pretty big fan of brian eno. i think he's one of the most important musical minds of the last half century, but that doesn't mean i have to agree with him on everything he says, and yes i think he's a bit short sighted in that quote. "distortion" once had specific associations that are no longer universally the only associations with that sound, because of the way it's been used in music over the last several decades. i also find piss far less interesting than eno does.
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Apr 29, 2023 21:42
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kntfkr posted:here it is. i'm gonna dig through my parent's basement later for a working walkman i love that album check out "hostile architecture" by ashenspire if you havent already. metal band from glasgow. prettty sure any chat pile fan would appreciate their work
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Sep 21, 2023 17:36
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