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The Cardassian government is controlled by three main factions. Dukat is from the military wing of the government, but the Obsidian Order is the branch focused on espionage, and it is clear that they've been up to poo poo and building an independent power base that could be a threat to the other branches of the Cardassian government. That's a large part of the tension between him and Garak, not just that Garak is a dishonorable exile, but the fact that Garak is from the Obsidian Order. And of course later on in the show, the Obsidian Order does reveal its private armada when they use it to attack the Dominion, but when the Dominion overpowers them entirely, destroying the order. Later the military totally overthrows the remaining branch of government, but eventually the Dominion takes over and Dukat happily becomes the puppet supreme ruler of Cardassia, at least until he gets distracted by becoming the antichrist. Neat, but a bit disappointing they're sticking with just four main factions. I know in the real world there's only so many prominent alien groups, but Trek in the show always liked to imply that there was a lot more complexity in international galactic politics even if it didn't spend that much time detailing it, so that they could feel the freedom to slide in new big alien nations whenever they wanted. I always thought with Europa Universalis, regardless of whether there was a fun in the exploration and colonization part of the game, it was too much busywork when your attention was still needed to manage things at home, so maybe a game that was just the exploration could be interesting. Except you'll probably still need to put in the work to be ready for wars.
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Jun 19, 2023 05:03
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Something that I feel that is lost in the later Treks is that in the original series, there's a lot of work put into making humanity (and by extension, the Federation) seem like a small speck in the universe, an underdog even. For all the episodes where they land on a planet with a more primitive, less advanced society, there must be at least as many where they run into a more advanced or even hyperevolved society beyond their understanding. There's still a fair amount of that in TNG, but as it went on, there was far less of the Enterprise being overpowered by aliens more advanced than them, and more of the Enterprise being paralyzed by fear of a diplomatic incident. DS9 was essentially all-in on the Federation being the top superpower in the Quadrant, Voyager I guess tried to make itself the underdog by just taking them away from the Federation's sphere of influence, and in Enterprise, they weirdly end up with Earth as nearly the equal of any other race they encounter even though they're supposedly not as advanced yet. I guess that's part of the appeal of the Borg, they're just the last major group that was introduced in no uncertain terms as being mostly superior and more advanced than the Federation.
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Jun 19, 2023 15:55
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The Xindi are really slapdash creations that were written very quickly in order to make the show into a response to 9/11, and the show doesn't really have that much of an idea of what it wants to say, the writers are just working through their feelings with no idea what they'll come up with. Archer has to go into Xindi territory with a bunch of marines to give the Xindi a talking to about how Earth's really great, and a lot of the Xindi are reasonable, but the Reptilians are just evil.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:50
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Trip is low-key the second best character on the show after T’Pol. He’s got a much better arc than Archer, shows actual growth, and is just naturally more charismatic than Captain GWB. He’s great. Aside from the general tonal issues with Enterprise, the biggest issue is that Archer is always the star who always has to be right over any of the crew and any of the sci-fi phenomena of the week. TOS was often more focused on the aliens than the main crew, and TNG and DS9 were structured specifically to spread plots around more. Trip as the guy with the second-most screentime was also unburdened by the need to always be right, so he made mistakes every so often and could grow as a result in a way that Archer couldn't. I guess the fact that show was dedicated to human technology being behind compared to the rest of the galaxy meant that the show had to keep him prominent (whereas Yoshi's main job of translating often got downplayed because it slows down plots). Of the rest of the main cast, the writers did Mayweather dirty, and Malcolm has literally nothing going on with is life, to the point that I would rank like that girl Phlox watches movies with or always-offscreen Chef higher than Malcolm. zoux posted:If I were the Xindi, I would've simply shown up with my completed death star and reduced the earth into a debris field instead of sending over an amuse bouche of a micro death star to angry up the humans' blood. I think the guy who made the superweapon was really angsty about it and wanted to get away with just the little one.
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Jun 28, 2023 01:22
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zoux posted:I'd recommend watching the show because this is a mega huge spoiler but as spoken by a Romulan temporal agent: "Like so many people, I've tried to influence these events. Delay them or to stop them. I mean, whole temporal wars have been fought over them. And it's almost as if time itself is pushing back and events reinsert themselves and this whole thing was supposed to happen in 1992!" 1992 - 1996 being the period in which Khan was supposed to have been one of the great rulers of the world, which obviously didn't happen. The implication now is that any discrepancies in fictional histories set by once and future ST series can be explained by temporal agent shenanigans Well, seen that idea floated before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpATLp5cPK0 And the Eugenic Wars of the 90s have always been a thorn in the side of Star Trek worldbuilding, since Trek likes to touch on the present every so often despite the war never happening. They always just floated around as a thing that happened at some point, and it was big, but hard to say any details for sure. If the past of the Federation is stuck in constant flux due to temporal meddling, it solves that problem, and it also solves the issues of later shows being unable (and usually unwilling) to capture the vibe of the earlier shows despite doing a weird prequel circlejerk. The "original" timeline has long been overwritten, you can never go back.
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Jun 30, 2023 04:41
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Well, part of that 14 minutes is clips of earlier shows saying about the same thing.
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Jun 30, 2023 08:01
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People in Trek regularly kill parasitic sentient entities that only exist by purging the original being whose body they've hijacked.
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Jun 30, 2023 16:02
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Kibayasu posted:Remember that time Riker vaporized his and Pulaski’s adult clones made by the weird clone people? Well, they weren't finished yet, so it was just an abortion.
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Jul 1, 2023 02:05
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The Ferengi are really fun on DS9 and largely redeem the Ferengi existing as part of a franchise after being gross totally dehumanized goblins in TNG, but they still kinda lack a lot of nuance as a society, still usually prioritizing lampooning real-world terrestrial society and all its perceived ills over developing them as a race with their own culture. Which is probably also why they felt the freedom to just kinda end it all by writing out of nowhere Rom becomes the Grand Nagus to "fix" all of Ferengi society, which doesn't really seem like a satisfying conclusion for Rom or the Ferengi, although it was very funny for Quark to be spurned one last time.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:06
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Eighties ZomCom posted:It was kind of weird that shows set after the TNG era went out of their way to show that hologram tech seems to have gotten worse over time. When they aren't flickering randomly, they're dumb as rocks and can apparently be disabled by blinking at them, and that was a flaw that was apparently around for 900 years. I feel like that's Trek forgetting that it's not Star Wars. Star Wars holograms are lovely and flickery and staticky because everything about Star Wars is that it's a universe where everything is worn-down and breaking for the aesthetic. Star Trek is supposed to be about the fancy technology of the future all working great. But modern audiences are less awed by such things and modern showrunners are less interested in trying to dream of a better future, so they go off in weird directions instead. Enterprise on the other hand, was Star Trek forgetting it wasn't Stargate.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:38
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zoux posted:Another thing I was interested in in watching TOS is that they don't even mention the Federation until Arena, before that the things they say about the political situation of the era conflict significantly. In fact the bad guys in the Corbomite Maneuver are called the Federation! You don't see other starfleet ships until Court Martial, space feels so empty and remote, I understand why it was pitched as Wagon Train to the stars, it really is like they are on the frontier. It's very easy to obsessively memorize details and collate facts, it's much harder to pick up and analyze the series's "vibe" and reproduce that. With the way that TV in general developed in the last 20 years, I feel like things got more and more stacked against trying to do something like the original series over time anyways. There are some cool things you can get from worldbuilding building on top of other worldbuilding over time as writers create things that start to stand out in the franchise, but there's definitely a lot less freedom. MikeJF posted:Well, more generally, it's that Star Wars has set how things are in sci-fi. Holograms in sci-fi are flickery and transparent because Star Wars made them flickery so that's just how they are, and the new Star Trek just made Standard Issue Sci-fi holograms. The original trilogy was already done by the time TNG, DS9, and Voyager came out, and I'm not sure there even was any hologram stuff in the original series. I guess another explanation is just the fact that TV budgets and sfx costs are at the point where they can add these ridiculous flourishes and just because they can. I think there's a similar thing with the Star Wars franchise, where since the sequel trilogy had technology could add in a more robotic-looking hand, Luke at some point traded in his near-perfect simulacrum hand with fake skin for a rusty, lovely robot hand. And of course, the only reason you'd ever want a transluscent holographic user interface with lots of randomly moving bits and bops is if you had a big sfx budget that you needed to burn, but I don't know who invented that aesthetic. I guess Babylon 5 had a bit of it where they purposefully projected weird complex patterns from its CRT screens that you would see reflected on actors' faces.
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Jul 5, 2023 23:05
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Randallteal posted:A key part of the DS9 magic for me that I don't hear remarked on that often is more frequent use of recurring guest stars. Dukat, Kai Winn, Weyoun, Garak, Martok, Kasidy, Nog, etc feel like so much more of a substantial part of the show than anyone except Guinan gets to be on TNG. Sisko's character in particular is hugely enhanced by his longterm rivalry with Dukat. There are a lot of TNG episodes with killer guest stars where at the end I'm like "boy, that was great. I wish that character was actually part of the show." Barclay and Ro hit a similar point, but for the most part you're right. DS9 has a lot of people who you believe are around the station and constant even if they're not on the episode. TNG doesn't really give you many people on the ship who feel consistently around outside the main cast. Although Nog often isn't really on the station, and I feel like you don't get much of a sense of Jake having any presence.
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Jul 6, 2023 20:41
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No Dignity posted:TNG - The Ferengi are anti-semetic carictures (by accident??) Armin Shimerman played a couple of the TNG Ferengi, including the first onscreen Ferengi (much like how Marc Alaimo was the first onscreen Cardassian), and he's said that he was grateful for the opportunity to flesh out the Ferengi as something more. Rom's actor was a few TNG Ferengi as well. The makeup, writing, and direction made a lot of differences. Grand Fromage posted:Yeah the idea of them as villains makes total sense. Who better to be the Federation's enemies than 1980s Wall Street aliens? But the execution, uh. To be honest, there's so many weird details added onto them early on in TNG, that the whole capitalist element can be easy to lose, even seem secondary. They hunch over, they hop around, they snarl, they're placed on a lower plane to make them seem shorter, they put on a "voice" to make them seem less able to speak English compared to other aliens. I think the main intent for the Ferengi was to give them a "bad" culture for the Federation to be morally superior to, which isn't really a wrong idea to consider that some other cultures are worse, and it's a natural consequence of all the utopian aspects of the early TNG Federation, but it's kind of a gross go about it so directly. There was plenty in TOS of the Enterprise crew deciding that they were right and the aliens were wrong, but they didn't put so much work into cultivating a fall guy. And the Ferengi being always wrong and stupid makes stories less complex.
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Jul 7, 2023 02:38
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There were definitely a number of times in DS9 when Section 31 or other amoral jerks do bad things, but the consequence is deemed to be good, so it leaves the audience wondering.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:22
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The Doomsday Machine is one of the TOS episodes I watched because I read it was the inspiration for Unicron, and while the tube/cone shape is dorky and it lacks the Jack Kirby-esque nonsense of Unicron's inner workings, that horrifying flashing maw really captures the same feeling of horror as it looms ever-nearer. The episode is a mixed bag. There's some nice pathos with the crazed captain, but for the backstory and moral, they never really learn anything about the Doomsday machine, Kirk just kind of pulls a possible origin out of his rear end, and then looks at the audience and tells them nukes r bad. Eimi posted:I miss beige and more even lighting. All the modern treks except for Lower Decks feel like they are trying to be fancy with the lighting, whether via excessive colour correction or just having a ship where turning the lights on is illegal. I started watching the Orville recently and I'm in love with that show, and one of the things that's helped is that it's very evenly lit and beige as gently caress. It rules. I think that's kind of just an industry-wide issue. A lot of TV out there just has really lovely lighting because that's the style, I don't really know why, maybe some people have better screens than I do or they're just all expected to black out their windows and watch in the dark. A lot of people seem convinced that if everything is pitch black except for some harsh lighting on a few bits, that looks cooler. I think it's worse what the overuse of color-correction has brought, because it means that all use of color gets reserved for the editor in post-production, so all props, costumes, and backgrounds have to be a muddled brown that can get tainted to whatever color the editor wants the entire frame to be. If you're lucky you get one additional accent color, but that's pushing it. And it's a very stark contrast with the original series where they were just trying to cram as many colors as possible into a scene because they were happy that they could have any color at all, and they weren't very concerned with how the technology kinda messed up a number of colors.
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Jul 17, 2023 06:05
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Marsupial Ape posted:All this Troi talk and nobody remembers that Troi got space-raped by an energy being and forced to bear its meat suit…and everybody kind of laughed it off, even her. Weird that you think that should be her defining moment.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:13
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Deep Space Nine has the worst opening out of any Trek, and the way in which it's bad also makes it extremely non-thematic to the show itself, and really shows how little the show creators knew of what the show would be like. All the other Treks have big sweeping scores about the ship going on its adventure from point A to point B as the ship zooms by in the background, but the only real idea that the DS9 opening has is that it's not going anywhere. The station isn't going anywhere, so all the camera can do is slowly pan back and forth as the music just toddles around. I think at one point it even sounds like the music is kinda confused at how to keep going. The show itself is largely unconcerned with thinking about the exterior of the station, and it's more of a tighter character-driven drama. The station in the opening looks quiet and isolated, but in the show it's supposed to be bustling and full of traffic. I don't think the musical style is particularly evocative of the style of show either, although that's kinda subjective. I would think that since it is stepping away from the high-minded philosophical side of things to focus on ground-level politics and moral ambiguity, something other than a grand orchestra would be appropriate.
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Jul 24, 2023 06:30
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The Enterprise intro is actually extremely evocative of what the premise for the show was, but the main thing there is that the premise the show was designed for wasn't very good or very Star Trekky. It's about being a prequel and how the show is going to be about some big milestones in human history (rather than the typical exploring outwardly that defines the franchise). The more "modern" (and dated) musical style really denotes how the show is planning to be a lot more modern and down to earth and actiony (and coincidentally most of the decisions they made in that direction made the show extremely dated). The theme purposely broke from Trek tradition because the show itself is trying to buck a lot of Trek tradition. And then the faith bit I guess connects with how Archer does seem like the most sanctimonious captain, his actions justified both from the innate value of the Earth and from the fact that everything he does will in theory lead to the rest of the franchise. He's a Great Man explorer pushing the boundaries with his special innate strength of soul.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:13
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feedmyleg posted:Okay but the song sucks and is bad So does Enterprise, is the point I was getting at.
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Jul 24, 2023 23:02
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The Deepflight 1, the submarine in Enterprise. https://web.archive.org/web/20120201142419/http://deepflight.com/subs/df1.htm https://twitter.com/HumanoidHistory/status/1675209350829178880 Can't really find all that much significant about it online, I guess it was just the sub that the show could find footage from. Alvin would've been a better choice. Or maybe Jacques Cousteau's sub. Tunicate posted:Famously the Titan is now a single polygon. More of a particle effect.
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Jul 24, 2023 23:33
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There's plenty implied that humans can go out and do without being in Starfleet, but it's never gone over in any detail because the show is extremely not about them. There is a weird thing where it seems like spaceships aren't really that common in Trek. Colonies and research bases get set up by a ship plopping them down somewhere and then just loving off. If something goes wrong with the colony, well, you're hosed until Starfleet can send help. I think TNG goes hardest on that. Even when they run into other "spacefaring" civilizations, it's common for them to have just one ship or even no ships locally. TOS had a number of human traders and adventurers roaming around, Enterprise establishes the idea that there are cargo ships making runs between colonies that ended up as sort of colonies unto themselves since they were going so slow. There might also be an implication that you need a really big ship to really have a practical chance in the galaxy at large as opposed to Star Wars's propensity for tiny little ships, but the Enterprise is also stocked with a bunch of tiny little warp-capable shuttlecraft that regularly roam a long distance away from the ship. But there don't seem to be very many shuttle-sized alien ships out there.
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Jul 28, 2023 07:29
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FISHMANPET posted:And in The Cage one of the people that beams down to the planet tells the "survivors" that they've broken "the time warp barrier" so it's funny as hell to think about much of the stuff we take for granted as the bedrock of Star Trek just hadn't been figured out. Hell, Zefram Cochrane was supposed to come from Alpha Centauri, so somehow we'd traveled to and colonized other star systems before he invented warp drive. Glad we eventually retconned that. I miss the idea of pre-federation pre-warp human colonies just kinda lying around. Remnants of a bygone era. I guess the Romulans still are remnants of the Vulcans' forgotten bygone era, but that's been touched on far less.
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Aug 1, 2023 04:54
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Lord Hydronium posted:Why is 24th century bed and pillow technology so bad? Every time we see characters sleeping it looks like the most uncomfortable thing. Easy answer: Thinner props are easier to make and look more right for fitting into sparse ship quarters. I think maybe there might be the idea that maybe future technology will figure out a way to make fabrics comfy with just thinner material. The same kind of technology that you could imagine facilitating Roddenberry's early TNG idea of skintight form-fitting outfits that somehow aren't a total pain in the rear end.
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Aug 6, 2023 05:40
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DaveWoo posted:If I had a nickel for every time Star Trek had a character who was a better counselor than the actual counselor, I'd have two nickels This is because while the idea of getting therapy is around, none of the writers really respect the idea of professional therapists. You only need a head doctor if you're some kind of crazy! Just...y'know, talk about your problems with some sympathetic stranger who has another job that they're busy with. No need for fancy "qualifications".
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Aug 6, 2023 19:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s been a while since I’ve read the novels, but basically the books lay out that the holoprogram Riker watched was a coverup and that in reality Trip faked his death in 2155/56 with Archer, Reed, and Phlox’s help and basically became a hesitant agent for Section 31, helping them do covert poo poo on Romulus to prepare for the inevitable war with the Romulans in 2161ish. Okay, faking his death to do secret things I can understand, but surgical alteration with a fake family and insertion onto a planet that Starfleet doesn't really know anything about at that point in time is just too silly. It'd be more likely that Romulans have spies on Earth than the other way around.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:19
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Klingon government seems kinda like a medieval democracy. They didn't have big ideas of trying to build a consensus or mathematically determine what most people support. Instead the government is dominated by a bunch of powerful aristocrat families that the institutions of the government keeps in a kind of balance so that none of the families can take full hereditary control of the Empire like they could with the title of Emperor. Installing Kahless's clone into some kind of spiritual emperor position with no real political power is like how Japan was for a while when they had a shogun who ruled politically and the Japanese emperor maintained spiritual importance. But it's not like the Klingons planned for that as part of their government. I doubt they'll value him enough to clone up another Kahless once he kicks the bucket.
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Aug 13, 2023 14:46
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...! posted:Kai Wynn was supposed to be the final villain of the series; they had originally planned for the final season to be entirely about her finally getting her comeuppance. They decided to change it to her essentially being Dukat's lackey because they were genuinely disturbed by the fact that a lot of fans who were diehard conservatives unironically viewed him as a hero. They went out of their way to make him over the top in order to try to get those people to see him as a villain. Not sure if it worked. From what I heard, the actual writers were going back and forth on Dukat for a while, and it's not until the cult that they were all in on him being the villain.
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Aug 15, 2023 03:35
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The ending of Deep Space 9 is very bittersweet. I think O'Brien is the only one who comes out totally positively, since he was better at keeping things professional and his career was on the way up (and of course, with Keiko following him back to Earth she can also get back into botany).
DavidCameronsPig posted:Odo being a cop during the occupation really didn’t make any sense, no matter how much they bent over backwards trying to explain it. And they bent pretty far backwards. In context, Dukat was weird and did care about having some kind of image of fairness because he wanted the image of being a savior and protector to the Bajorans, which may make even less sense, but then it's just about the bizarre eccentricities of Dukat (and I guess all the propaganda Dukat tried to put out about himself must've boosted Odo).
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Aug 16, 2023 22:37
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't know about that. Since he was part of Damar's revolutionary forces, I thought the idea was that Cardassia Prime could be remade/reshaped into a better, less fascist society. Garak is in a really weird position philosophically on that. He does believe that Cardassia can be reformed, even before the Dominion takeover, but he was also fervently a true believer in many of the most sinister aspects of Cardassian culture. He was proud of things like their literature assuming guilt instead of innocence, or how long he could keep lies going. He mocks the Federation and its principles even though he understands its value. He may have resigned himself long ago to being a sleazebag on the fringe of society, but now he gets to go be one of the principle rebuilders of the planet and personally recreate it without the things he cherished, because he know the planet will be better for it. Spare me your insufferable Federation optimism! Of course it'll survive! But not as the Cardassia I knew! His assessment of Cardassian society may also be inaccurate; in Chain of Command, Picard describes Cardassia as having some kind of peaceful and spiritual society before whatever cataclysm that led to Cardassia becoming a fascist autocracy. But Garak was raised to be proud of what Cardassian society was, even if he disagreed with some of the ways that was expressed. He is his father's son.
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Aug 16, 2023 23:17
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skasion posted:I think the Cardassians are gonna have a hard time building a society that isn’t hosed up because 1) it’s the exact same people that were just previously part of a hosed up society, except for 2) all the people who ended up getting slaughtered either by their own hosed up government or in the gigantic war they just lost which devastated their planet on top of an honest to god genocide that killed hundreds of millions. Garak loves Cardassia but he wasn’t happy with the way things were, he can’t live with himself either as Cardassia’s servant or a traitor to it, and he has no faith his own return home (over the dead bodies of millions) is the beginning of a change for the better. Well, we see earlier in the show that there are Cardassian reformers buzzing around, but they've been largely chase into hiding. The Obsidian Order got largely wiped out both by the Dominion and by Tain killing any rivals when he came out of retirement to fight the Dominion. The remaining military and civilian governments got into a bit of a civil war, with the civilian government unexpectedly coming out on top, but also some kind of significant amount of military officers swapped over to the civilian side, just in time to have to fight a really bad war against the Klingon Empire, and then another coup in favor of the Dominion, which got followed by another civil war and the Dominion starting a last minute genocide on the capital planet like Japan in the Philippines. So the top political, espionage, and military leaders are all dead, and most anyone left in any high official political office has to face allegations of collaboration. They're really starting from as scratch as you can get. It depends on how much you believe about how deep the corruption goes into their culture. But if any reformers successfully managed to hide out for the duration of the wars, they'd be in a really good position to get something done. Presumably some kind of Federation aid could also influence the new Cardassia.
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Aug 17, 2023 05:00
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I think of the way that TNG doesn't really use Troi like it should and people don't generally want therapy as being because people of the 80s weren't really respectful of psychology and therapy, but what if it's the result of the extra-utopian nature of the TNG-era Federation where they've regressed in the field of therapy and counseling because most people are ashamed of their problems seeming insignificant in a time of such peace and plenty.
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Aug 27, 2023 07:26
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The tension Keiko had with O'Brien over having to live in a place where she wasn't really satisfied but trying to make the best of things is an extrapolation of an idea that TNG had but never dived deep into. TNG threw in the idea of the crew bringing their families with them to form a large civilian population on the Enterprise in the depths of space, far from any Federation world, but never touched on the interpersonal dynamics of that because all of the main cast of TNG was single and incapable of maintaining long-term romantic relationships.
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Aug 27, 2023 18:31
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Yeah I guess it's good as an individual story, but in context of a larger series, it's just a kind of commentary on it and the society making it as compared to a few decades earlier. The whole idea of the series just being a dream in the contexts of this other universe isn't all that interesting and is probably more annoying in the context of a number of other shows and movies that try to generate interest with the idea that they aren't "real", like that on its own really means anything. But Benny Russell is pretty clear on all of that. It's real.
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Aug 27, 2023 18:45
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Der Kyhe posted:Because it was 90's TV-show where you need to crank out episode basically every week, and there is no time or budget to make super-complicated makeups, sets, or props unless you are doing ratings week episode. Yeah but contemporaneously, DS9 had the highest ratio of aliens to humans out of any Trek show, and while the Bajorans may have been simple, the Ferengi, Cardassians, Voorta, and even changlings were very elaborate and must've been very time-consuming to apply the makeup, and yet still constantly kept using those alien characters. And outside of star trek, you have Babylon 5 in the 90s putting in the effort to fill rooms with extras in prosthetics to get good group shots. I can't imagine how difficult it was to stage that barfight between Centauri and Narn. I think it's probably more that Voyager didn't expect to ever have to worry about ever seeing most of its races ever again, so it didn't worry about getting creative or elaborate with the designs. They're disposable. Possibly DS9 may also have the most prosthetics per episode out of any Trek. Enterprise kept its main cast simple and gave up on its idea of having Phlox make CGI faces. The other live action treks I haven't seen, but I think they're mostly human cast.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:56
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zoux posted:I wonder if all the forehead and ear and nose aliens think humans are smooth weirdos. That might've been where the idea for Odo came from. A guy to push humans more towards the middle of the spectrum.
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Sep 1, 2023 01:34
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I think I prefer the later Bajoran makeup they did without the brow ridges anyways. Not really sure how it would work plot-wise anyways. You get a better clash with the Starfleet garrison having to butt heads with somebody who's not Starfleet at all and maybe doesn't respect them much. I guess maybe in the earlier drafts of DS9 they might've had less of the culture clash? More stuff like that episode where Kira has the duty to get rid of that old man on the moon they need to burn, and she believes in what she's doing and just has to deliver the bad news rather than when she's butting heads with Sisko directly. Or maybe they would've tried harder at the earlier attempts at making DS9 into a planet of the day show without Kira dragging them back there. Probably would've been less chemistry between Ro and Odo without the offscreen history together.
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Sep 7, 2023 07:16
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Imagining DS9 as an attempt at doing a spinoff with more minor characters from TNG like how AfterMASH tried to form a show around Klinger, Colonel Potter, and Father Mulcahey at a normal civilian hospital.
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Sep 7, 2023 20:11
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It's definitely not great that they never really depict the plight of the Maquis colonists directly. All the characters who speak for the Maquis in DS9 aren't actually colonists, they're all starfleet personnel who have gone over to fight for the cause. The original TNG episode where Native Americans choose annexation over eviction isn't even really about the people on the planet because it's all a weird and creepy bait and switch for setting Wesley off on some kind of grand destiny. The episode where Ro Laren defects is probably the closest the franchise gets, and there they depict the colonies in the demilitarized zone not just being humans that the Federation seemingly has the duty to help the Cardassians suppress if they can't evict, there's also Bajorans who have no place else to go. The most detail you get about Maquis life is Cal Hudson's speech on there being constant violence against the colonists that the Cardassian government was facilitating, which everything else about the way the Cardassian Union operated does seem to jive with.
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Sep 8, 2023 23:32
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Taear posted:Imagine if your home was sinking but you had infinite places to move to and it didn't cost any money. You don't sound like somebody who's had to move much.
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Sep 9, 2023 17:43
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 03:42 |
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How often have you had to go to another city leaving behind everything you know because somebody burnt down your home?
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Sep 9, 2023 18:43
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